Mark Waid not so nice?

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#2 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

He might be going at it a little hard, but his heart is in the right place. Could have toned it down, though. The easiest way to invalidate your opinion is to be a complete jerk-off while expressing it.

#3 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Not seeing it.

#4 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Waid is now even more awesome IMO.

#5 Posted by Backflip (2262 posts) - - Show Bio

My respect for the man just went through the roof.

#6 Posted by Billy Batson (57905 posts) - - Show Bio

No, Orson Scott Card is the one who's "not so nice".
Though so is Waid but for different reasons.
BB

#7 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Not seeing it.

I think what Cavemold was getting at is the venom (no pun intended) with which Waid stated his stance on Card's removal from the Superman strip. I agree that it's a good thing, but I also agree he could have gone about doing so in a more graceful manner.

#8 Posted by ptigrusmagus (486 posts) - - Show Bio

OSC is a piece of crap bigot. His beliefs are based on a dusty religious dogma, its 2013, he should really grow up and think for himself.

#9 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

What happend to freedom of speech? Why canyt Scott believe what he wants to believe. Does Mark need to stone him?

#10 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Not seeing it.

I think what Cavemold was getting at is the venom (no pun intended) with which Waid stated his stance on Card's removal from the Superman strip. I agree that it's a good thing, but I also agree he could have gone about doing so in a more graceful manner.

He just said "NOW HOMOPHOBE-FREE", which is a fact. OSC is a big bag of dicks and a known homophobe.

This is nothing compared to what he could have said.

#11 Posted by SmashBrawler (5589 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, wait, wait, I don't get the last tweet. Does he mean Card is off the book too now (something I haven't found any sources for) or is he just encouraging people to buy the other Adventures of Superman issues not written by Card?

#12 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

Im ok with mark not liking Scott or even saying i dont like him , But this is bit ridiculous. I dont know if DC will hire the artist that bailed out ever again.. i wouldn't

#13 Edited by ptigrusmagus (486 posts) - - Show Bio

OSC, the idiot, had his story pulled -from that issue- and replaced. I will now be buying.

#14 Posted by ptigrusmagus (486 posts) - - Show Bio

DC already has a statement of support for the artist. And OSC and his hatred goes far beyond free speech. Simple Google search will show he has quite an active stance with his bigotry.

#15 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler: he saying dont buy Scotts work

#17 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

its stil off a ways from being published......

#18 Posted by Blood1991 (8098 posts) - - Show Bio

I will let Superman speak for me.

#19 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

lol the writer name kevin church...

#20 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

OSC has been doing that since the 80's what's gonna make him stop anytime soon?

#21 Posted by Stormbox (2001 posts) - - Show Bio

@Blood1991: That was a better written superman than anything ive seen in the main superman title or justice league

Sad....

#22 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: Yes, you're right, he could have gone much further. But would it have helped him state his cause with tact and grace? No. It would have made him out to be a reactionary child. I have no more interest in reading or supporting Card's work than anyone else, but we don't have to stoop to his level to make our case. That's all I (or, assumedly, Cavemold) am saying.

#23 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man said:

OSC has been doing that since the 80's what's gonna make him stop anytime soon?

No kidding

#24 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@End_Boss said:

@InnerVenom123: Yes, you're right, he could have gone much further. But would it have helped him state his cause with tact and grace? No. It would have made him out to be a reactionary child. I have no more interest in reading or supporting Card's work than anyone else, but we don't have to stoop to his level to make our case. That's all I (or, assumedly, Cavemold) am saying.

Correct

#25 Posted by skooks (205 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Waid is a legend. My respect for him just went up threefold.

#26 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

Not sure about being a legend

#27 Posted by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

I judge my material on its merits alone, not the author's personal/political affiliations. I suspect Mr. Waid would want to be judged under the same standard were the spotlight on him.

Orson Scott Card is damn good writer.

#28 Posted by SmashBrawler (5589 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reignmaker said:

I judge my material on its merits alone, not the author's personal/political affiliations. I suspect Mr. Waid would want to be judged under the same standard were the spotlight on him.

Orson Scott Card is damn good writer.

Dunno, I thought Hamlet's Father was pretty terrible. And that's ignoring the homophobic overtones.

#29 Posted by tupiaz (2173 posts) - - Show Bio

I have never read a story by OSC. Are they filled with his views if not I don't see the problem. If he can keep the two things separate (his personal views and a characters) then I have a hard time seeing the problem with the product. That the man have personal views far from mine is another thing.

#30 Posted by End_Boss (725 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reignmaker: That's a nice ideal, but sometimes the line between supporting good writing and supporting what the writer believes in can become blurred. With Card, for example, it is a generally known fact that he makes large monetary donations to anti-gay rights organizations. Many people worry that the money they put towards Card's writing (and by extension, Card himself), will then go to those same organizations. So in short, while I agree with your theory on it in principle, in practice it is much harder to follow.

#31 Edited by Reignmaker (2235 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler said:

Dunno, I thought Hamlet's Father was pretty terrible. And that's ignoring the homophobic overtones.

I must have missed that one. Guess we can't all be awesome all the time. How about J.K. Rowling's latest post-Harry Potter novel? Though she was never my favorite to begin with.

@tupiaz said:

I have never read a story by OSC. Are they filled with his views if not I don't see the problem. If he can keep the two things separate (his personal views and a characters) then I have a hard time seeing the problem with the product. That the man have personal views far from mine is another thing.

Most people who read his books never even think twice about it. Two of them are actually coming to theaters this fall in the form of a movie. I can't wait to see all these gay-pride types up in arms calling everyone bigots who decide to go see the movie. One of my best friends is gay and she LOVES Orson Scott Card's books. She's actually the one who introduced me to them.

#32 Posted by Batmandemon23 (138 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reignmaker said:

@SmashBrawler said:

Dunno, I thought Hamlet's Father was pretty terrible. And that's ignoring the homophobic overtones.

I must have missed that one. Guess we can't all be awesome all the time. How about J.K. Rowling's latest post-Harry Potter novel? Though she was never my favorite to begin with.

@tupiaz said:

I have never read a story by OSC. Are they filled with his views if not I don't see the problem. If he can keep the two things separate (his personal views and a characters) then I have a hard time seeing the problem with the product. That the man have personal views far from mine is another thing.

Most people who read his books never even think twice about it. Two of them are actually coming to theaters this fall in the form of a movie. I can't wait to see all these gay-pride types up in arms calling everyone bigots who decide to go see the movie. One of my best friends is gay and she LOVES Orson Scott Card's books. She's actually the one who introduced me to them.

that is so ... ironic

#33 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reignmaker said:

I judge my material on its merits alone, not the author's personal/political affiliations. I suspect Mr. Waid would want to be judged under the same standard were the spotlight on him.

Orson Scott Card is damn good writer.

Thank you lol

#34 Posted by tupiaz (2173 posts) - - Show Bio

@Batmandemon23: Seems like she is just able of putting personal political views aside when reading. If I should like every political view of the artist I support being music movies TV shows comics books and so on. I would be very limited. So would most people unless they are flip floppers.

#35 Posted by noj (1078 posts) - - Show Bio

Why the hell is Mark Waid praising Chris Sprouse? Chris Sprouse is the one to be PITIED here. He didn't walk out on the job because he felt any sympathy towards any of the people protesting the comic or the gay rights movement. The man was essentially bullied out of doing his freaking job because of all the negative attention Orson Scott Card and by extension HIS work was getting. All the internet wackjobs throwing so much hate towards him caused him to walk away from his job more than likely losing whatever money he was going to be payed for it.

The absolute hate towards Orson Scott Card Ive seen since this whole ordeal started is mind blowing. I may not entirely agree with OSC but he has the freedom to express his beliefs and do whatever the hell he wants with his money. Guess what there is NO difference between him donating money to an Anti gay organization and someone else donating to pro gay group! If you dont want to support his title just don't buy it. It isnt necessary to throw every insult possible his way, send him death threats, and go out of your way to try and get him FIRED!

#36 Edited by atonemented (43 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

Why the hell is Mark Waid praising Chris Sprouse? Chris Sprouse is the one to be PITIED here. He didn't walk out on the job because he felt any sympathy towards any of the people protesting the comic or the gay rights movement. The man was essentially bullied out of doing his freaking job because of all the negative attention Orson Scott Card and by extension HIS work was getting. All the internet wackjobs throwing so much hate towards him caused him to walk away from his job more than likely losing whatever money he was going to be payed for it.

The absolute hate towards Orson Scott Card Ive seen since this whole ordeal started is mind blowing. I may not entirely agree with OSC but he has the freedom to express his beliefs and do whatever the hell he wants with his money. Guess what there is NO difference between him donating money to an Anti gay organization and someone else donating to pro gay group! If you dont want to support his title just don't buy it. It isnt necessary to throw every insult possible his way, send him death threats, and go out of your way to try and get him FIRED!

so we should treat him like a perfectly normal human being even though he doesn't think other human beings should be treated like normal human beings? OSC is exercising his freedom of speech, so why can't other people utilize their own freedom of speech to call him out on his deluded opinions? he isn't being jailed like suspected communists during the red scare jesus christ, but i guess homophobes will say whatever they can to justify their loud bigotry. on one last note, donating money to an anti gay organization can not be any more different than donating to a pro gay organization. it's common sense.

#37 Posted by SUNMAN (7215 posts) - - Show Bio

what did Waid do that was so bad? am I missing something?

#38 Posted by noj (1078 posts) - - Show Bio

@atonemented: Yes you should treat him like a perfectly normal human being because that is EXACTLY what he is! Humans aren't some hive-mind species that are only allowed to feel one way, act in a certain manner, or believe one thing. We are far more complicated than that. So yes you are able to belittle him and treat him as less than a human being but dont think for a second that you have the moral high ground! If you truly believe that he is some sort of lesser person for his beliefs than you are being a massive hypocrite and are no better than what you claim to hate.

Oh and once again there is no difference between donating to a Anti/Pro gay organization. You are donating money to assist an organization that shares and promotes your beliefs in both cases.

#39 Edited by atonemented (43 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

@atonemented: Yes you should treat him like a perfectly normal human being because that is EXACTLY what he is! Humans aren't some hive-mind species that are only allowed to feel one way, act in a certain manner, or believe one thing. We are far more complicated than that. So yes you are able to belittle him and treat him as less than a human being but dont think for a second that you have the moral high ground! If you truly believe that he is some sort of lesser person for his beliefs than you are being a massive hypocrite and are no better than what you claim to hate.

Oh and once again there is no difference between donating to a Anti/Pro gay organization. You are donating money to assist an organization that shares and promotes your beliefs in both cases.

actually, knowing that I am morally superior makes me feel a lot better about myself and truly does make my life better. twisting his opinions into some type of deep and philosophical revelation of the human mind doesn't make your argument logical, but have fun defending him. Just know that if you happened to be gay he still wants you to die anyway. the act of donating is the same yeah thanks for pointing out the most obvious fact in your original post, but there's a clear difference in the organizations' causes: liberation and OPPRESSION. do you know what oppression leads to....should I start naming examples. oppression of Jews HOLOCAUST, oppression of Africans SLAVERY, etc. Donating to support equality and donating to support straight up violence and discrimination towards others just because you don't accept their way of life is beyond just a mere hobby or opinion/is inhumane/makes you a vile person. (Don't generalize what I'm saying by asking me if I could apply this to EVERY opinion and situation. we're talking about gay rights). BASICALLY: this dude is just another entitled, privileged white guy. Not complicated at all.

#40 Posted by lightsout (1827 posts) - - Show Bio

and this is why CV needs some sort of post rec'd/1-up'd feature

#41 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@noj said:

@atonemented: Yes you should treat him like a perfectly normal human being because that is EXACTLY what he is! Humans aren't some hive-mind species that are only allowed to feel one way, act in a certain manner, or believe one thing. We are far more complicated than that. So yes you are able to belittle him and treat him as less than a human being but dont think for a second that you have the moral high ground! If you truly believe that he is some sort of lesser person for his beliefs than you are being a massive hypocrite and are no better than what you claim to hate.

Oh and once again there is no difference between donating to a Anti/Pro gay organization. You are donating money to assist an organization that shares and promotes your beliefs in both cases.

#42 Posted by Chronus (1115 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cavemold said:

What happend to freedom of speech? Why canyt Scott believe what he wants to believe. Does Mark need to stone him?

It's because what Scott believes in is stupid and evil.

#43 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4698 posts) - - Show Bio

Separate the art from the artist.

#44 Posted by noj (1078 posts) - - Show Bio

@atonemented: You seriously don't see the hypocrisy in treating someone as less than human because they treat others as less than human? You can claim to be against oppression and for equality all you like but you CANT support the oppression of someone to support equality. If you do you are in no way "morally superior" you sink to the same level that you claim to hate. I DON'T support Orson Scott Card's beliefs and I honestly don't support gay rights. I'm somewhere in the middle of the issue, but that doesn't matter, I support freedom of beliefs and the law of the land. I support the idea that a person is allowed to practice his or her own beliefs and take personal responsibilities for their actions as long as it is within the law. Orson Scott Card might be a despicable man but it's his right to believe whatever the hell he wants and support those beliefs within the confines of the law, just as it is the right of a gay rights advocate to believe in his/her cause and support it within the confines of the law.

#45 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cavemold said:

What happend to freedom of speech? Why canyt Scott believe what he wants to believe. Does Mark need to stone him?

Freedom of prejudice, bigotry, and irrational disgust have apparently also been removed.

#46 Posted by Cavemold (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

@sesquipedalophobe said:

Separate the art from the artist.

If only

#47 Posted by iLLituracy (13537 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Waid is a decent guy. Doesn't mean he should always be nice. OSC is a dick for lack of a better word.

#48 Posted by Vance Astro (91191 posts) - - Show Bio

Mark Waid is my Grandmom. Don't talk about herm!

Moderator
#49 Posted by Ren_ (1678 posts) - - Show Bio

This just makes him better.

#50 Posted by Queen's Halo (2431 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally appropriate, actually he was a bit too nice to someone as despicable and brain damaged OSC.

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