How powerfull is Madrox?

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#1 Posted by The Enigma (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

is he even a mutant?... how powerfuls is he compared to other marvel superheroes?
Post Edited:2008-03-08 16:33:43

#2 Posted by Saakkara (314 posts) - - Show Bio

probably Beta, cause he can't turn his power on and off

#3 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Forget the powerlevels, there isn't even a clear definition of them.

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#4 Posted by Saakkara (314 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"Forget the powerlevels, there isn't even a clear definition of them. "

I was waiting for to say that, but the only reason I answered in power levels is cause that's how he asked...

#5 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"Forget the powerlevels, there isn't even a clear definition of them. "

There doesn't have to be.They put characters in a tier.You know whose the weakest and whose the strongest.

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#6 Posted by Saakkara (314 posts) - - Show Bio

and if a clear definition (for the purpose of this thread) is made, then we could still go with them

#7 Posted by IcePrince_X (4849 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe there is clearer definition for mutant classification which I find to be more reliable.

ClassificationAlpha MutantsBeta MutantsGamma MutantsDelta MutantsEpsilon-Delta MutantsEpsilon MutantsZeta mutantsOmega mutants

according to marvel Jamie is a Beta Mutant

"As far as how potent their powers are Beta Mutants are on the same level as Alpha mutants. The difference between Beta Mutants and Alpha Mutants is that the Beta Mutants have flaws, albeit very small flaws. The Beta mutants are also believed to be about 10% of the mutant population. Some examples of Beta mutants are Wolverine, Mystique and Sabretooth.

* Classify mutants as Beta Level if they have a normal human appearance and their mutation is powerful, useful, but less controllable, like Cyclops who can't turn his power off, but can still lead a normal life with only minor preparation. Wolverine, who has healing powers, can't ever decide NOT to rapidly heal from an injury, but this does not impair him in any reasonable way. "                                                                    --- taken from Marvel Wikia

in terms of strength he has only human level strength but in terms of skills and knowledge he is superior

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#8 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

You know what's funny? Jamie's supposedly not even a mutant. So not only do the "mutant classifications" not matter because they're generally meaningless to start with, or because the question was based in relation to other superhumans (not just mutants like the classifications are for), but also because he's not really a mutant.

Anyway, I think the question is hard because of the kind of power Madrox has. If it were a strength level, speed, psychic ability, or energy manipulation comparison, it would be easier, but Madrox's powers don't work like that. Can you say he's more powerful that Gambit? Gambit can blow stuff up by touching it! Madrox could beat him simply by overpowering him, but does that mean he's more powerful? I doubt he could beat a character like Brit, but he could do a lot more damage to people and property. Does that make him more powerful? Do all the things he's learned translate into additional power? I'd say he's as powerful as there are copies of him. Or as powerful as Luke Cage. Whatever.

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#9 Posted by Shaper (5168 posts) - - Show Bio

What do you mean "supposedly not even a mutant"?

#10 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84513 posts) - - Show Bio

According to the Marvel Handbook he's a mutant. Was this recently changed? In MC I thought he was scanned and confirmed as a mutant?

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#12 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio

Shaper says:

"What do you mean "supposedly not even a mutant"?"

Terrigan Mist,I think.

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#13 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84513 posts) - - Show Bio

aztek_the_lost says:

"Vance Astro says:
"Shaper says:
"What do you mean "supposedly not even a mutant"?"

Terrigan Mist,I think."

no! he means like Mimic it is debated whether he is a mutant or not"

What? I thought we we're talking about Jamie Madrox (Multiple Man)

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#15 Posted by Buckshot (18913 posts) - - Show Bio

It was "revealed" in an issue of X-Factor. He's a different kind of being (like the guy the team had been dealing with). A changeling. The dude who said it was a bad guy, so that may throw some doubt on it, but some flashbacks added some info and showed the guy going to Jamie's parents when he was a kid, so I think it's true (or at least that the guy believed it). There was also something said in his mini right before X-Factor started up again that sounds supportive of the changeling thing.

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#16 Posted by The Enigma (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

Buckshot says:

"It was "revealed" in an issue of X-Factor. He's a different kind of being (like the guy the team had been dealing with). A changeling. The dude who said it was a bad guy, so that may throw some doubt on it, but some flashbacks added some info and showed the guy going to Jamie's parents when he was a kid, so I think it's true (or at least that the guy believed it). There was also something said in his mini right before X-Factor started up again that sounds supportive of the changeling thing."

I have just finished reading the brilliant "Madrox" series and i can confirm that:there was that guy called "Clay" who displayed identical powers to Madrox and hestatedc to him "you do not know what you truly are" (or words to that effect)implying that he was not the mutant he thought he was.

Clay appeared after M-Day and furthermore the Isolationist, who had the powers of every mutant on the planet did not once demonstrate multiplication abilities like Madrox.

However it could then be argued that if he was not a mutant how did his dupe get the legacy virus?

Tryp did state that he was a genetic throwback or a changling but it has yet to be truly confirmed and it was only state in X-Factor #12.

He is not, as far as I am aware, the result of tereginesis. I would say he's either a mutant or possibly an alien or another evolved human (nto kill-crop or throwback cos that sounds bad.)

#17 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

The Enigma says:

"Buckshot says:
"It was "revealed" in an issue of X-Factor. He's a different kind of being (like the guy the team had been dealing with). A changeling. The dude who said it was a bad guy, so that may throw some doubt on it, but some flashbacks added some info and showed the guy going to Jamie's parents when he was a kid, so I think it's true (or at least that the guy believed it). There was also something said in his mini right before X-Factor started up again that sounds supportive of the changeling thing."

I have just finished reading the brilliant "Madrox" series and i can confirm that:there was that guy called "Clay" who displayed identical powers to Madrox and hestatedc to him "you do not know what you truly are" (or words to that effect)implying that he was not the mutant he thought he was.

Clay appeared after M-Day and furthermore the Isolationist, who had the powers of every mutant on the planet did not once demonstrate multiplication abilities like Madrox.

However it could then be argued that if he was not a mutant how did his dupe get the legacy virus?

Tryp did state that he was a genetic throwback or a changling but it has yet to be truly confirmed and it was only state in X-Factor #12.

He is not, as far as I am aware, the result of tereginesis. I would say he's either a mutant or possibly an alien or another evolved human (nto kill-crop or throwback cos that sounds bad.)"

Not only mutants are affected by the Legacy Virus, Moira McTaggart died of it. And what does Terrigenesis has to do with Madrox? He has never been in contact with Terrigen Mists.

Moderator
#18 Posted by The Enigma (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

fesak says:

"The Enigma says:
"Buckshot says:
"It was "revealed" in an issue of X-Factor. He's a different kind of being (like the guy the team had been dealing with). A changeling. The dude who said it was a bad guy, so that may throw some doubt on it, but some flashbacks added some info and showed the guy going to Jamie's parents when he was a kid, so I think it's true (or at least that the guy believed it). There was also something said in his mini right before X-Factor started up again that sounds supportive of the changeling thing."
I have just finished reading the brilliant "Madrox" series and i can confirm that:there was that guy called "Clay" who displayed identical powers to Madrox and hestatedc to him "you do not know what you truly are" (or words to that effect)implying that he was not the mutant he thought he was. Clay appeared after M-Day and furthermore the Isolationist, who had the powers of every mutant on the planet did not once demonstrate multiplication abilities like Madrox. However it could then be argued that if he was not a mutant how did his dupe get the legacy virus? Tryp did state that he was a genetic throwback or a changling but it has yet to be truly confirmed and it was only state in X-Factor #12. He is not, as far as I am aware, the result of tereginesis. I would say he's either a mutant or possibly an alien or another evolved human (nto kill-crop or throwback cos that sounds bad.)"
Not only mutants are affected by the Legacy Virus, Moira McTaggart died of it. And what does Terrigenesis has to do with Madrox? He has never been in contact with Terrigen Mists. "

my bad about the legacy virus.... but someone stated above that he was exposed to the terrigan mists.......

#19 Posted by Ketch (327 posts) - - Show Bio

He's done it a couple times so yes, it's something he can do if necessary, but how does that factor into a measure of his power? Other mutants in similar situations could dispatch foes in similar (not really similar, their powers change it, but kind of similar) ways. If Wolverine found his hand in an enemy's mouth he could pop a claw in their brain. Marrow could grow a bone. Gambit could charge a card. Havok (or any other "blaster" could blow a hole through the attacker. Iceman could freeze innards (did that to Mammomax, funny). These mutants are all at different power levels but could have pretty much the same outcome as Madrox, so what do that really show about how powerful he is? I don't think it says very much at all.

#20 Posted by Clutch (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

Who cares,he is dope as hell.

#21 Posted by Ketch (327 posts) - - Show Bio

We can't like the character and want to discuss aspects of him?

#22 Posted by Clutch (2835 posts) - - Show Bio

I never said you couldn't.Im just pointing out the obvious.

#23 Posted by The Enigma (1882 posts) - - Show Bio

Clutch says:

"Who cares,he is dope as hell."

get the hell out man. seriously, he is probs one of the most interesting characters in the marvel universe.

#24 Posted by zee crusher (8997 posts) - - Show Bio

aztek_the_lost says:

"Vance Astro says:
"Shaper says:
"What do you mean "supposedly not even a mutant"?"

Terrigan Mist,I think."

no! he means like Mimic it is debated whether he is a mutant or not"

Mimicing powers is a mutant power lol its like leech. He can get rid of others powers.s

#25 Posted by Jack the Ripper (2225 posts) - - Show Bio

zee crusher says:

"aztek_the_lost says:
"Vance Astro says:
"Shaper says:
"What do you mean "supposedly not even a mutant"?"

Terrigan Mist,I think."

no! he means like Mimic it is debated whether he is a mutant or not"

Mimicing powers is a mutant power lol its like leech. He can get rid of others powers.s"

but Mimic may not be a mutant, he might just be a mutate because it was an explosion in his father's lab that gave him his powers

#26 Posted by Djinn (778 posts) - - Show Bio

madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's.

#27 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Djinn said:
"madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's."

No chance..... Vulcan is obscenely powerful. The thing about Vulcan is that he cannot run out of energy: in Uncanny #480 when he was fightwing the Imperial Gaurd, he stated the the energy he manipulated was not inside of him. On top of that, he can manipulate ANY type of energy.

He could theoretically use the heat energy which Madrox produces against him in a concentrated form, or he could simply drain the kinetic energy from the particles in his body, rendering Madrox as though he was at Absolute Zero.

In Deadly Genesis #5 or 6, Vulcan single-handedly defeated a team of X-Men consisting of Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Havok, RACHEL GRAY, Emma Frost and a few more.. Madrox could not do that, let alone escape without damage. 
#28 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

if he was a mutant,probaly a level beta because he haves some flaws

#29 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio
John Valentine said:
"Djinn said:
"madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's."

No chance..... Vulcan is obscenely powerful. The thing about Vulcan is that he cannot run out of energy: in Uncanny #480 when he was fightwing the Imperial Gaurd, he stated the the energy he manipulated was not inside of him. On top of that, he can manipulate ANY type of energy.

He could theoretically use the heat energy which Madrox produces against him in a concentrated form, or he could simply drain the kinetic energy from the particles in his body, rendering Madrox as though he was at Absolute Zero.

In Deadly Genesis #5 or 6, Vulcan single-handedly defeated a team of X-Men consisting of Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Havok, RACHEL GRAY, Emma Frost and a few more.. Madrox could not do that, let alone escape without damage. 
"

the thing about the imperial guard,wasnt it when two guys absorbed his power and then he used the power they took to kill then?that was classic

but Djinn does have a point,Madrox isnt powerfull like Cyclops or Gambit,but his powers are dangerous and if he fought Cyclops i would put my money in Madrox
#30 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Matezoide said:
"John Valentine said:
"Djinn said:
"madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's."

No chance..... Vulcan is obscenely powerful. The thing about Vulcan is that he cannot run out of energy: in Uncanny #480 when he was fightwing the Imperial Gaurd, he stated the the energy he manipulated was not inside of him. On top of that, he can manipulate ANY type of energy.

He could theoretically use the heat energy which Madrox produces against him in a concentrated form, or he could simply drain the kinetic energy from the particles in his body, rendering Madrox as though he was at Absolute Zero.

In Deadly Genesis #5 or 6, Vulcan single-handedly defeated a team of X-Men consisting of Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Havok, RACHEL GRAY, Emma Frost and a few more.. Madrox could not do that, let alone escape without damage. 
"

the thing about the imperial guard,wasnt it when two guys absorbed his power and then he used the power they took to kill then?that was classic

but Djinn does have a point,Madrox isnt powerfull like Cyclops or Gambit,but his powers are dangerous and if he fought Cyclops i would put my money in Madrox"
Madrox is one of my favorite characters, but it'd be ridiculous to assume that he'd withstand a precision blow to the head from one of Cyclops' optic blasts.
#31 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio
Matezoide said:
"if he was a mutant,probaly a level beta because he haves some flaws"

There is no such thing as a beta level, those powerlevels (except omega) are completely fabricated by marveldatabase.com
Moderator
#32 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

John Valentine said:

"Matezoide said:
"John Valentine said:
"Djinn said:
"madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's."

No chance..... Vulcan is obscenely powerful. The thing about Vulcan is that he cannot run out of energy: in Uncanny #480 when he was fightwing the Imperial Gaurd, he stated the the energy he manipulated was not inside of him. On top of that, he can manipulate ANY type of energy.

He could theoretically use the heat energy which Madrox produces against him in a concentrated form, or he could simply drain the kinetic energy from the particles in his body, rendering Madrox as though he was at Absolute Zero.

In Deadly Genesis #5 or 6, Vulcan single-handedly defeated a team of X-Men consisting of Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Havok, RACHEL GRAY, Emma Frost and a few more.. Madrox could not do that, let alone escape without damage. 
"

the thing about the imperial guard,wasnt it when two guys absorbed his power and then he used the power they took to kill then?that was classic

but Djinn does have a point,Madrox isnt powerfull like Cyclops or Gambit,but his powers are dangerous and if he fought Cyclops i would put my money in Madrox"
Madrox is one of my favorite characters, but it'd be ridiculous to assume that he'd withstand a precision blow to the head from one of Cyclops' optic blasts."


but doesnt he absorbs kinect energy to create a dupe?if so then shouldnt he absorbs it and create a lot more?i am not complete sure tought.besides if theres a copy and the original dies,a copy becomes the new "madrox" so killing the original aint gonna help

#33 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Matezoide said:
"

John Valentine said:

"Matezoide said:
"John Valentine said:
"Djinn said:
"madrox is a mutant but not that powerfull his powers are more on the dangerous than powerfull. as in he can over come cyclops but that doesnt mean he's more poerfull. if he was against vulcan he probably would win. vulcan would loose out of energy fighting hundreds of madrox's."

No chance..... Vulcan is obscenely powerful. The thing about Vulcan is that he cannot run out of energy: in Uncanny #480 when he was fightwing the Imperial Gaurd, he stated the the energy he manipulated was not inside of him. On top of that, he can manipulate ANY type of energy.

He could theoretically use the heat energy which Madrox produces against him in a concentrated form, or he could simply drain the kinetic energy from the particles in his body, rendering Madrox as though he was at Absolute Zero.

In Deadly Genesis #5 or 6, Vulcan single-handedly defeated a team of X-Men consisting of Cyclops, Wolverine, Beast, Havok, RACHEL GRAY, Emma Frost and a few more.. Madrox could not do that, let alone escape without damage. 
"

the thing about the imperial guard,wasnt it when two guys absorbed his power and then he used the power they took to kill then?that was classic

but Djinn does have a point,Madrox isnt powerfull like Cyclops or Gambit,but his powers are dangerous and if he fought Cyclops i would put my money in Madrox"
Madrox is one of my favorite characters, but it'd be ridiculous to assume that he'd withstand a precision blow to the head from one of Cyclops' optic blasts."


but doesnt he absorbs kinect energy to create a dupe?if so then shouldnt he absorbs it and create a lot more?i am not complete sure tought.besides if theres a copy and the original dies,a copy becomes the new "madrox" so killing the original aint gonna help

"

It doesn't work like that. That's like saying that if he was brutally stabbed through the chest, he'd produce a dupe..... that's not going to happen.

If Cylops hit Madrox in the head with an optic blast he'd be dead, end of.
#34 Posted by Matezoide2 (15994 posts) - - Show Bio

ok then,sorry

#35 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Matezoide said:
"

ok then,sorry

"
No need to apologize, it's just that I think that's what would happen.
#36 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio

Interestingly that's just what happens in X-Factor 9, and the result is not a dead Madrox, but two dozen dupes.

Moderator
#37 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"Interestingly that's just what happens in X-Factor 9, and the result is not a dead Madrox, but two dozen dupes."

It wasn't a precision strike to the head, one that Cyke could easily make.

Anyway Cyclops has overloaded Bishop with his power........
#38 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio
John Valentine said:
"fesak said:
"Interestingly that's just what happens in X-Factor 9, and the result is not a dead Madrox, but two dozen dupes."

It wasn't a precision strike to the head, one that Cyke could easily make.

Anyway Cyclops has overloaded Bishop with his power........"

There's nothing to suggest that a blast to the head would produce a different result.
Moderator
#39 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
fesak said:
"John Valentine said:
"fesak said:
"Interestingly that's just what happens in X-Factor 9, and the result is not a dead Madrox, but two dozen dupes."

It wasn't a precision strike to the head, one that Cyke could easily make.

Anyway Cyclops has overloaded Bishop with his power........"

There's nothing to suggest that a blast to the head would produce a different result."

Decapitation?
#40 Posted by Korg (11931 posts) - - Show Bio

Scott's powers are concussive in nature. Any impact he unleashes on Madrox is likely to create dupes, rather than kill/injure him.

#41 Posted by Vance Astro (91110 posts) - - Show Bio
Korg said:
"Scott's powers are concussive in nature. Any impact he unleashes on Madrox is likely to create dupes, rather than kill/injure him."
Has Scott ever had to blast Madrox?
Moderator
#42 Posted by fesak (7031 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"Korg said:
"Scott's powers are concussive in nature. Any impact he unleashes on Madrox is likely to create dupes, rather than kill/injure him."
Has Scott ever had to blast Madrox?"

fesak
said:
"Interestingly that's just what happens in X-Factor 9, and the result is not a dead Madrox, but two dozen dupes."
Moderator
#43 Posted by Dupesaplenty (2 posts) - - Show Bio
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Darko4272/madrox/1-8.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Darko4272/madrox/2-6.jpg

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Darko4272/madrox/3-3.jpg

The issue you were speaking of, of course.

In a marvel Adventures of Incredible Hulk, The "Smart" Dupe Hulk Throws Madrox out of a building around this height, and creating an Army of dupes.

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l232/Darko4272/madrox/1-12.jpg

I apologize for not the particular image i wanted to show, but I haven't scanned it yet. But the Kinetic Impact didn't even seem to phase him even from that magnitude.

I suppose it all depends on the writer.


I wonder what plans they got for Madrox's Ultimate Half.
#44 Posted by Djinn (778 posts) - - Show Bio

u have to remember cyclops blast are a conussive, meaning no heat just a big push, so madrox multiplies by force he would just multiply more, now from point blank no madrox wouldnt survive, but with ALL the knowledge he has do you think he would make hundreds of copies of himself just so he could get close and fight scott, no point when you have hundreds of people to do it for you

#45 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

Djinn
said:
"u have to remember cyclops blast are a conussive, meaning no heat just a big push, so madrox multiplies by force he would just multiply more, now from point blank no madrox wouldnt survive, but with ALL the knowledge he has do you think he would make hundreds of copies of himself just so he could get close and fight scott, no point when you have hundreds of people to do it for you"

Yes they are concussive, but a massively powerful blow to the neck would easily decapitate someone, if not disintergrate them. Even Madrox has to have an upper limit as to how much energy he can absorb.
#46 Posted by Djinn (778 posts) - - Show Bio

he doesnt absorb the energy he dupluicates from kinetic energy so. when cyclops blast him with a powerful blast he duplicates and maybe if he shoots the original madrox he wouldnt survive but LIKE i said madrox is trained i dont think he would fight cyclops himself he would use duplicates i dont think he would even be close to him

#47 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Djinn said:
"he doesnt absorb the energy he dupluicates from kinetic energy so. when cyclops blast him with a powerful blast he duplicates and maybe if he shoots the original madrox he wouldnt survive but LIKE i said madrox is trained i dont think he would fight cyclops himself he would use duplicates i dont think he would even be close to him"
The absorbtion of the kinetic energy enables him to duplicate.
Maybe Cyclops would just destroy/obliterate him with a blast: this is a guy who can blast through a small planet, destroy a sentinel weighing dozens of tonnes with his blast.

Jamie had a dupe who trained as an olympic athlete, as well as others who have studied arts and fighting styles from all around the world - his combat ability/ level of fitness is not up for question, it's the fact that he's battling someone of equal physical level, but who is also extremely skilled in the use of an offensive power.

Any dupes he creates would act as fodder and be destroyed by any blast.
Don't even think Madrox can dodge one of Scott's insanely accurate blasts either: he can't.
#48 Posted by Djinn (778 posts) - - Show Bio

i know that but, why would he use himself to fight when he can use duplicates, dont think scott would automatically know wheres the real madrox

#49 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio
Djinn said:
"i know that but, why would he use himself to fight when he can use duplicates, dont think scott would automatically know wheres the real madrox"

You didn't know that, as evidenced by your last post.

Scott doesn't need to pinpoint Madrox-Prime when he can disintergrate them all.
#50 Posted by Djinn (778 posts) - - Show Bio

soooooo, i probably never saw it but he can do a blast in all directions, and i thought his blast weakened the farthest it goes hitting a dupe with little force would make it duplicate and create more which sooner or later will overcome scott

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