1.Superman is like,what,the most well known superhero in existence,and his been here since the 30s? Not exactly a fair comparison. Not only that,but since when has Iceman had 1/4th the exposure and priority as Superman? Obviously,that's rhetorical.

2. Holy misunderstanding Batman! It's like my previous post was in complete vanity. I am pretty sure that he has been on countless teams,and he's one of the original X-men. Count that as you wish.

You say that Storm has had no development other than a new haircut (I disagree,and she had a mohawk in the past). But I am pretty sure that there is a lot more to her,I'm pretty sure that she married Black Panther and was Queen of Wakanda,has been on X-men teams,etc etc

If the only thing you get from her character is "she's powerful",then it's clear that you're missing a lot of things. But it's better to ask someone like jazzroucher or other Storm fans on the matter,since they know 200x more than I do. And if you want development on Bobby,just create a thread and ask,if you truly want to know.

Since when did character develop= a change in views? I am pretty sure that it extends to far more than that.

And you say that Psylocke has excellent character development over the years (which I agree),but if I play devil's advocate to make a point,I can say how she's just the mutant "that was body switched" and that's it,even though she's been in many teams in the past. You see the problem with just simplifying her down to 1 moment in her history and saying "she's only been developed in power"?

Same with Cyclops,I agree with what you say concerning him,but what if I were to simplify the character and his status quo changes to something that just happened 3 years ago (becoming a mutant revolutionary). Even though he's done many things,he's lead many teams,etc.

Do you see my point? Most of this is rhetorical (and honestly,I'm losing patience,but really because of you),but the point is,I am pretty sure that there is so much more to the characters than "power",and if anything,it's an injustice to the characters in a way.

If anything,we can agree to disagree. However,I hope that this isn't in vain and you actually see the point.

Now,I have lots of work to do.

Thing is he doesn't view it as downgrading his character....He just doesn't care about how powerful Luther is and neither should his fans. If luthers an interesting character than its whatever. All he did was state his opinion by his own admission. Thats it. He even said he has no exact strength level for Luther.

I agree. Sorry for continuously necroing it.

Then why is everyone all pissy that I fully endorse his downgrading to Captain america level? I am trying to live with the idea that I will never be taken seriously again (why would I, I back Ultimates and now look like a ass over Strode) and be fair to the facts that these statements will be used against Strode in debates to come. Im just going to live with it.

Look, I feel piss, that simple. Im upset over how wrong i been, and how these staements will undermine all the Luther debates on battle forums, a character I really liked in my top 3. next to Spawn and Ultimate Spider Man. I am pissed off.

Indeed. It's really making Comicvine look bad.

Nonsense. This thread is pin worthy!

1,000?
He is far more than that my friend.

@slimj87d@veshark These guys are like,the Captain squad. There's another,but I forgot his name.

Anyway,just a little irrelevant detail I wanted to point out. If anything,Cap is like,arguably 3 tons at max. Ultimate is around 10,so I hear.

@indiecomicsftw said:

@cdiddyman911: @i_like_swords: @strider92:

@iragexcudder said:

@indiecomicsftw: lmao yeah that was me, I'll talk to him some more definitely but I'm sure that'll give me a block haha plus I'm sure that Strode will die in the Legacy

@cdiddyman911 hahah I'm sorry man I had to find out answers

Look at this sh!t.

He agrees Luther is Karnak + Spidey Sense +Sabertooth = Luther >_>

That makes him alot higher than what he just F***king said. The Idiot.

Is he serious?

Does he know how fast many of those people are,or is he just contradicting himself and wanking Luther for the fanboys.....

Seriously,Jashro was right,too. Luther has a lot of overhyped abilities. Anyway,I don't know alot of humans that are 2x fast as modern ones that dodge bullets,but whatever.

No!!! This thread is an abomination and it should be buried in the deep pits of Comicvine hell! O__O

Wimp.

Just to let everyone know,Captain America level isn't really bad....just sayin'

I mean,it isn't high level,but it's not exactly what is listed in the old handbooks (800 lbs peak human....yeah,that's not really accurate at all).

Anyway,can this be locked now?

@mercy_@buckshot

@wolverine08: @dccomicsrule2011: Meh, I think the topic can be covered. I dont think anyone has taken it too far. For now there isn't anything more to discuss really. But, it can be left open for others. Maybe I'll change the name to Strode's confusing power levels.

I digress. When you have a user calling a writer a "retard" over something as trivial as this, I do think it's been taken to far.

Aggression is good.

@dccomicsrule2011: Really, someone said that? I guess I'm just looking at the comments I'm responding too. I'm sure the mods will lock it up, if they feel it's annoying or makes the site look bad,

^ What he said. He is a freaking retard and its my god givin right to have that opinion of him.

@wolverine08: Quit kicking the hornet's nest, boy! Watch this thread burn from afar like the rest of us are now doing!

A retard because a character HE created is not as powerful as YOU want him to be?

Sounds legit.

I can't let this thread die without a glorious ending!

It's Cadence's goddamn right!

Retard because he was to freaking lazy to see what his Artist made his character shown to be, and only puts out a statement way after the fact where he is suppose to be.

Yes, he is a freaking retard, and contradicts himself.

Also this is my opinion, in no way am I pushing it onto others. So its is legit.

Justin be like:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@indiecomicsftw said:

@wolverine08 said:

@dccomicsrule2011 said:

@lukehero said:

@wolverine08: @dccomicsrule2011: Meh, I think the topic can be covered. I dont think anyone has taken it too far. For now there isn't anything more to discuss really. But, it can be left open for others. Maybe I'll change the name to Strode's confusing power levels.

I digress. When you have a user calling a writer a "retard" over something as trivial as this, I do think it's been taken to far.

Aggression is good.

^ What he said. He is a freaking retard and its my god givin right to have that opinion of him.

A retard because a character HE created is not as powerful as YOU want him to be?

Sounds legit.

Retard because he was to freaking lazy to see what his Artist made his character shown to be, and only puts out a statement way after the fact where he is suppose to be.

Yes, he is a freaking retard, and contradicts himself.

Also this is my opinion, in no way am I pushing it onto others. So its is legit.

Have you ever considered becoming a fan of Wonder Woman?

Stop egging him on Logan! Shouldn't you be shaving or something. :P

.... really? Really? Look at my name......... look at it. Really? :)

You kind of act like a Wonder Woman fa. Go check out her forum.

@buckshot: Time to blast my thread with your lockup Omega Beams please.

We can turn you away from this dark path, Cadence!

Step back into the light! It doesn't have to be this way, you're actually pretty cool most of the time!

Wonder Woman is willing to change Cadence! She's teach you the values of love instead of being angry all the time!

How does somebody get this angry?

Imagine that Wolverine only had 1 writer for years....now imagine that writer saying that Wolverine is only slightly above normal human level in abilities. Imagine that it was also canon that Wolverine's weakness was shaving...just imagine.

I know the slighly above human isn't what JJ stated,but it's to give you an idea.

Besides,I think that he's basically giving up Luther,and going through the different stages of Loss. I think that in a page or 2 ago,he was at Acceptance.

She has a Hard core fanbase?

lol OK Ok.

Have you seen every single time that something with Wonder Woman is announced? I mainly hear negativity,rather than approval.......

*cough gadot cough*

I could care less about the abilities part really. Sure, I like that Wolverine as of now is very high up on the street level food chain, maybe even the best, but I most importantly find the character himself cool. The samurai aspects and all that. As long as that enigmatic loner with a heart of gold aspect is kept, I wouldn't be bothered if Wolverine was brought down to Moon Knight level in the street kingdom.

I'd only dislike the shaving.

I agree,and I hope that we get to see some improvements in what is recently being done. Usually when a character is downgrade only "to be brought back up" (so he can fight Sabretooth) they come back better than ever in some way or another...although that's hopefully.

I don't know.....I'd imagine that shaving isn't exactly Furball's thing.....

The best street leveler is still Spiderman, bro.

I second this,although he is rivaled by Midnighter......

Take away that webbing, and he'd get dropped by James :D

@cameron83: Midnighter is a mid tier. He'd destroy high end street levelers like Wolverine and Spider-Man for example.

@wolverine08: You were so funny in this thread... those gifs were killing my sides xD

True,but Spider-man is arguably borderline Midtier/street leveler

Eh, probably not. In an in-closed space, maybe. In a wide open area? Nah. You've got yourself a stalemate until Parker outsmart's Logan or just starts to brutal and remove organs or something to incap him.

Especially Wolverine. ;)

In a wide open space, Peter's best option would be just to go for avoidance. Up close, he can't really beat him. Logan's proven a few times against Pete and other Spiders that his speed is a problem for them, and his vastly superior skill in conjunction with the speed makes the chances of him tagging Pete a lot better. Damage out put has to be considered as well. Without webbing, Peter is left only with his fists to damage Wolverine. Besides the Spock moment which can be considered inconsistent when viewed along side the other times Peter has applied blunt force to Wolverine like when he punched his head against a gravestone holding back and only made him smile, threw him outside a 2,000 ft. building and James wasn't even hurt, and when he was Back in Black Spider-Man and his physically amped sucker punch just made Wolverine mad. Kaine recently breaking his hand against Wolverine's head doesn't hurt either in regards to the blunt force debate. On the other hand, it isn't even debatable what would happen if Wolverine stabbed Peter. He'd die.

Peter can't really outsmart James. In terms of academic intelligence, Peter is far smarter than James, but combat? Wolverine can go tit for tat with him. He's mastered the Sun Tenzin's Art of War book while training under Ogun, and his brain during combat has been clocked as being the equivalent of an Olympic athlete completing a gold medal winning routine while simultaneously beating four chess computers in their head, and if Peter gets up close to do something as trying to rip out Wolverine's organs, wouldn't he be seriously putting himself at risk of being stabbed?

Don't get me wrong, morals off, Peter without webbing would give Wolverine a good fight due to his vastly superior avoidance and strength, but he's kind of screwed without the webbing honestly.

Peter can and has out smarted Logan, though.

Do you really want me to post the slingshot scans again? ;)

NO! GOD PLEASE NO!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

DEAL WITH IT

I REFUSE to accept those scans!

Nope, nope, nopity, nope!