Luke Cage: TERRIBLE Leader-All His Fault?

#1 Edited by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

In Thunderbolts, he is written as a leader who has used his team effectively. In the New Avengers, he is written terribly as a leader. Sure, in the past Bendis has written nods via Steve Rogers to how great Luke could be as a leader. But, when he is finally made into one, Bendis writes him completely inept. He made us want him to be a leader, but then makes us pay for it. Look at what happened to Mockingbird.

What gives???

#2 Posted by Kairan1979 (16701 posts) - - Show Bio
@Osiris1428: maybe he can only be a good leader for the former supervillains?
#3 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

And he gets mad when he finds out that they are getting paid. He is a Hero for Hire! Why you mad?? Really, it pisses me off that he builds the character up just to make him incompetent. Especially in comparison to Ms Marvel, and even Hawkeye.

#4 Posted by katanalauncher (937 posts) - - Show Bio

Never really liked Luke Cage, he seems like a bland stereotypical black character.

Not someone like John Steward. 
#5 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Cage is a useless leader. That job should be given to someone like Ms. Marvel. 

#6 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio

Glad I did not read the story you are talking about because I like Cage, he has been a little stereotypical at times, but he is a pretty cool character when written correctly. 

@katanalauncher said:

" Never really liked Luke Cage, he seems like a bland stereotypical black character.
Not someone like John Steward. 
"

Refering to the Green Lantern right?  I had some friends that hated him because he is the stereotypical Black guy(at least on the cartoon he was always the angry hot headed black guy).  The problem with almost all black characters in comics; they are written by white guys, same problem as with many women and the way they are written in comics.
#7 Posted by katanalauncher (937 posts) - - Show Bio
@ntb1124 said:

" Glad I did not read the story you are talking about because I like Cage, he has been a little stereotypical at times, but he is a pretty cool character when written correctly. 

@katanalauncher said:

" Never really liked Luke Cage, he seems like a bland stereotypical black character.
Not someone like John Steward. 
"
Refering to the Green Lantern right?  I had some friends that hated him because he is the stereotypical Black guy(at least on the cartoon he was always the angry hot headed black guy).  The problem with almost all black characters in comics; they are written by white guys, same problem as with many women and the way they are written in comics. "
Just because they are written by white writers doesn't mean they have to be stereotypes.
John Steward on the other hand are often portrait as a calm, intellectual. 
He does not fully accept or reject the societal pressure on his ethnicity.
He knows he's black but he does not emphasis it. 

#8 Posted by The_Martian (36980 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel needs to get Luke Cage off of the Avengers. He doesn't belong and I'm tired of half the story being about his wife and baby. If I want super-powered family story, I'll go read the Fantastic Four.

#9 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio

Well, as you could probably guess, I like Luke Cage. His story with his family to me is more relatable and endearing than the FF to me (I always found the FF boring as hell). One of the problems with minority characters is that they are always seen a "stereotype", because they represent the whole. They have to, because they aren't usually used as a majority of the team. USUALLY. The origins of Luke Cage were blaxplotion films of the 70's as interpreted by white guys who meant well.


Luke Cage today has been more fleshed out as a character, in large part because of BMB. But after building him up via Civil War and through Cap's commentary and approval, now in the current pages of New Avengers, he is writing him as inept, and I want to know why? Why building him up to make him fail. Characters aren't ever bad, they're just written that way.
#10 Posted by ntb1124 (949 posts) - - Show Bio
@katanalauncher said:
" @ntb1124 said:

" Glad I did not read the story you are talking about because I like Cage, he has been a little stereotypical at times, but he is a pretty cool character when written correctly. 

@katanalauncher said:

" Never really liked Luke Cage, he seems like a bland stereotypical black character.
Not someone like John Steward. 
"
Refering to the Green Lantern right?  I had some friends that hated him because he is the stereotypical Black guy(at least on the cartoon he was always the angry hot headed black guy).  The problem with almost all black characters in comics; they are written by white guys, same problem as with many women and the way they are written in comics. "
Just because they are written by white writers doesn't mean they have to be stereotypes.
John Steward on the other hand are often portrait as a calm, intellectual. 
He does not fully accept or reject the societal pressure on his ethnicity.
He knows he's black but he does not emphasis it. 

"
I am with you, I never agreed on the John Steward comments, I just have friends who did not like him because they said he was the angry black guy stereotype, I have not read hardly anything with him in it, so I do not know how he was portrayed there.  I think Cage moved past the whole thing, but as others stated is now being written as a patsy, not sure why, but maybe he will come up big soon, every character needs to go through a down period, that way they get a chance to excel later.
#11 Posted by Wattup (648 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Luke Cage is awesome. Especially when he's paired with Iron Fist.

And wasn't Dwayne MacDuffie in charge of the JLU cartoon? He wasn't a white guy last time I remembered. And John Stewart was a bit stereotypical but he wasn't talking in jive and was portrayed as a true hero. He wasn't an angry black dude but more a stern military man.

#12 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12398 posts) - - Show Bio


i dont think luke did that bad given the situation. plus he admitted to never seeing himself as the new avengers leader pre heroic age anyway.  i have no idea how hes now

#13 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio

Cage is a character so in order for him to do anything he has to be written that way..so of course it's not his fault but he is however a terrible leader and if you go back to when he lead the Heroes for Hire...he sucked then to so you can only blame Bendis in the sense that he took an interest in Cage and didn't change him for the better.Luke basically did nothing as a leader, he barely even gives any orders.He doesn't command the kind of respect that a Captain America would.

Moderator
#14 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

lol Cage is the leader of the new avengers?! holy ****! wow...really?!

#15 Posted by UltraHeroix (154 posts) - - Show Bio
@Gambit1024 said:
" Cage is a useless leader. That job should be given to someone like Ms. Marvel.  "
Yeah, I agree that Ms. Marvel should lead. She has the experience and she even lead the main Avengers for a bit when Iron Man was was running SHIELD.
#16 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio
@UltraHeroix said:
" @Gambit1024 said:
" Cage is a useless leader. That job should be given to someone like Ms. Marvel.  "
Yeah, I agree that Ms. Marvel should lead. She has the experience and she even lead the main Avengers for a bit when Iron Man was was running SHIELD. "


this, she needs more face time now that her series ended. since then she's barely said more than 2 sentences each issue

but seriously, luke cage is the leader?! since when?

#17 Edited by JonesDeini (3619 posts) - - Show Bio
@Osiris1428 said:

" In Thunderbolts, he is written as a leader who has used his team effectively. In the New Avengers, he is written terribly as a leader. Sure, in the past Bendis has written nods via Steve Rogers to how great Luke could be as a leader. But, when he is finally made into one, Bendis writes him completely inept. He made us want him to be a leader, but then makes us pay for it. Look at what happened to Mockingbird. What gives??? "

I blame writers, funnily enough my biggest issue with T-Bolts is that he just isn't a good leader to me in that title. I don't feel that he's for a single moment truly lead that team. I quit New Avengers early on cuz Bendis just pissed me off, so that I can't speak on. 

@DH69: 
Since the Heroic age began 
#18 Posted by darkcloakx (788 posts) - - Show Bio

look cage is cool with me and his family dynamic is way more interesting than ff maybe black panther should lead new avengers & t-bolts?

#19 Posted by VII アメリカの英雄 (105 posts) - - Show Bio
@DH69 said:
" @UltraHeroix said:
" @Gambit1024 said:
" Cage is a useless leader. That job should be given to someone like Ms. Marvel.  "
Yeah, I agree that Ms. Marvel should lead. She has the experience and she even lead the main Avengers for a bit when Iron Man was was running SHIELD. "


this, she needs more face time now that her series ended. since then she's barely said more than 2 sentences each issue

but seriously, luke cage is the leader?! since when?

"
Last I checked Cage took the Leadership of the New Avengers from Captain America when he died.If i'm not mistaken during Dark Reign Ms.Marvel and Hawkeye decided they would split the responsibility of leader.
#20 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

lol i never even figured the team had a leader after civil war started, i just thought it was more of a democracy, seriously cant remember cage ever maker any leader-esque decisions...

#21 Edited by VII アメリカの英雄 (105 posts) - - Show Bio
@DH69 said:

" lol i never even figured the team had a leader after civil war started, i just thought it was more of a democracy, seriously cant remember cage ever maker any leader-esque decisions... "

Captain America was the leader when Civil War started but he died when it ended.If i'm not mistaken Cap told Cage he was the leader when he surrendered or that if something happened to him he would be the leader something like that.Or maybe I just completely made that up lol, for some reason I recall that happening.Technically nobody is really the leader because Strange did all the work in Volume 1 and initiated most of their tactics.
#22 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32092 posts) - - Show Bio
@VII アメリカの英雄 said:
" @DH69 said:

" lol i never even figured the team had a leader after civil war started, i just thought it was more of a democracy, seriously cant remember cage ever maker any leader-esque decisions... "

Captain America was the leader when Civil War started but he died when it ended.If i'm not mistaken Cap told Cage he was the leader when he surrendered or that if something happened to him he would be the leader something like that.Or maybe I just completely made that up lol, for some reason I recall that happening.Technically nobody is really the leader because Strange did all the work in Volume 1 and initiated most of their tactics. "
Yea I think your right  on that. I love Luke Cage but I prefer him with Iron Fist, Thunderbolts and Heroes For Hire they only good thing about him in the avengers is more exposure
#23 Posted by VII アメリカの英雄 (105 posts) - - Show Bio
@spiderbat87 said:
Yea I think your right  on that. I love Luke Cage but I prefer him with Iron Fist, Thunderbolts and Heroes For Hire they only good thing about him in the avengers is more exposure "
I don't have a problem with him being a New Avenger he's just not a leader.Ms.Marvel should have been established as the leader as soon as she got there.Cap had to give it to Cage because the rest of the characters on the team have never been true leaders.Parker,Wolvie,Echo,Strange,Jess Drew..they would have done no better than Cage but Hawkeye and Ms.Marvel are definitely good enough to lead after Cap.I don't see the point of Cage running Thunderbolts either.I think he should be a New Avenger and that's it.Thunderbolts have had shotty leadership since Citizen V was the leader.Cage isn't going to change that.He was better in Heroes for Hire but he certainly wasn't the best leader.Misty Knight is a far better leader than Cage ever was.
#24 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32092 posts) - - Show Bio
@VII アメリカの英雄: Yea I prefer Misty's leadership aswell but I just prefer him on that team to the Avengers
#25 Posted by VII アメリカの英雄 (105 posts) - - Show Bio
@spiderbat87 said:
" @VII アメリカの英雄: Yea I prefer Misty's leadership aswell but I just prefer him on that team to the Avengers "
Cage is definitely a better fit for HFH,I have just gotten used to him being an Avenger now.
#26 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

I've never understood the appeal of Cage. Granted I've only read his more recent (post-2000) stories, but he just seems like the stereotypical black guy. Like in this scene;



WHAT THE HELL DOES HE MEAN BY "I'M HIP"? IT MAKES NO SENSE.

Does "I'm Hip" mean "True" or "yes" now? I thought it meant, "I'm ok with that". Why would he be ok with that? Gah!

Now granted I'm an angry, nerdy white guy so it might make more sense to others but it just seems like a 50 year old read an Ebonics dictionary and threw it in because "it's something a black guy would say"
#27 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32092 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" I've never understood the appeal of Cage. Granted I've only read his more recent (post-2000) stories, but he just seems like the stereotypical black guy. Like in this scene;


WHAT THE HELL DOES HE MEAN BY "I'M HIP"? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Does "I'm Hip" mean "True" or "yes" now? I thought it meant, "I'm ok with that". Why would he be ok with that? Gah! Now granted I'm an angry, nerdy white guy so it might make more sense to others but it just seems like a 50 year old read an Ebonics dictionary and threw it in because "it's something a black guy would say" "
I dont think anybody says "hip" any-more and those who do automatically become un"hip"
#28 Edited by VII アメリカの英雄 (105 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:

" I've never understood the appeal of Cage. Granted I've only read his more recent (post-2000) stories, but he just seems like the stereotypical black guy. Like in this scene;
WHAT THE HELL DOES HE MEAN BY "I'M HIP"? IT MAKES NO SENSE. Does "I'm Hip" mean "True" or "yes" now? I thought it meant, "I'm ok with that". Why would he be ok with that? Gah! Now granted I'm an angry, nerdy white guy so it might make more sense to others but it just seems like a 50 year old read an Ebonics dictionary and threw it in because "it's something a black guy would say" "

Cage is the stereotypical black guy.He always has been.I think what Bendis is doing with him now is just making fun of what Cage used to be my continuing to make him a stereotype.Instead of trying to change him.I would never say "I'm hip".I've never heard that expression ever not even in a blaxploitation movie.Cage is basically the Marvel equivalent of Token from South Park.They can still make solid points about race using him and have him be a valuable character and yet make fun of him at the same time.
#29 Posted by Osiris1428 (1349 posts) - - Show Bio
@VII アメリカの英雄
List the ways in which he is a stereotype currently.
#30 Posted by Midnight Monk (225 posts) - - Show Bio

Cage is not the problem, Bendis is. That guy can love a character one minute and hate them the next. Hell look at Echo if you don't believe me. Luke is a great leader and has enough experience as one to maintain a team even like the Avengers 
 
When a character is written weirdly all you do is sit back and call it the Bendis effect, thats what I do =P
#31 Posted by mrmisanthrope (103 posts) - - Show Bio
@ntb1124 said:
Glad I did not read the story you are talking about because I like Cage, he has been a little stereotypical at times, but he is a pretty cool character when written correctly. 

@katanalauncher said:
" Never really liked Luke Cage, he seems like a bland stereotypical black character.
Not someone like John Steward. 
"
Refering to the Green Lantern right?  I had some friends that hated him because he is the stereotypical Black guy(at least on the cartoon he was always the angry hot headed black guy).  The problem with almost all black characters in comics; they are written by white guys, same problem as with many women and the way they are written in comics.
What are you talking about? When Hudlin took over Black Panther he practically destroyed the character. Suddenly he became a dismissive black-supremacist speaking with disdain for the cultureless white mongrels and their fuel-burning American cars. Suddenly Storm's past was re-written and her personality shattered so she could fill the role as the perfect subservient wife to Hudlin's racist fantasy self-insert character.
 
The color of the writer's skin has no effect on the quality of what they write, cage is a terrible character because he was created specifically as a blacksploitation character. He had a ridiculous costume that very little thought was put into, and since then has just been a generic super strong character. He's a less interesting version of Wonder Man, basically. No matter how Bendis worships at his alter and tries to convince us all he's so noble a character, it just doesn't mesh with his past. Luke Cage is the original hero for hire, the guy who thought being a hero was pointless without a paycheck. He took jobs from people like Doctor Doom and delivered memorable lines like "Where's my money, honey?" Before Bendis completely re-wrote the character's personality and got him to marry his own personal creation, his last appearance was an extremely embarrassing MAX mini so terrible I can't even bring myself to type out a synopsis.
 
Marvel is awash with interesting black characters, at least half of which also have the benefit of not being created specifically as a blacksploitation character, and nearly all of which also have the benefit of an interesting backstory, costume, and set of abilities. Cage is just a guy in street clothes who is super strong and invulnerable [i]because[/i]. There's nothing unique about his appearance, he has no interesting nemesis (unless you're for some reason impressed by Hardcore) and his powers are as generic as they come.
 
He's just a bore. Heroes for Hire was the only team he's ever been on that didn't have other characters who could do everything he could do and much more. I don't mind him being driven by profit, it at least made him different. Re-writing him as this charitable, noble leader is just as distasteful as re-writing a character who has literally raped numerous character's minds -and on occasion their bodies- lead scores of children to their deaths, and in one instance killed a teenage girl's childhood pet just to give her a traumatic memory being re-written as the heroic, noble co-leader of the X-Men.
#32 Posted by Varient (115 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with you on too many points: 
      The character has been written better than you infer. His "backstory" is unique as there are less than a handful of characters who served time in prison for a crime they didn't commit,.. His original costume made sense as far as where he was starting, and only the people who have not read his series make the mistake to believe that he was only a hero for the money. 
        
He's only a bore for folk (My opinion) with a short attention span,... I enjoy how he's written in Thunderbolts and there were parts in New Avengers and Spiderman which were classic Cage.   
He currently doesn't have a costume and has an attitude of just being that has been lacking in comics.  Too many heros in the Marvel Universe take themselves too seriously or waste time doing the "goth/different/Poor me" vibe that the younger readers eat up. 
 
Luke Cage is much more interesting getting milk for his child or beating down Osborn for messing with Jessica than too many other characters in comics today. 
 
Hard to explain but easy to experience - his closest vibe in personality IMHO is Ben Grimm.  
 
Like Ben Grimm,.. I KNOW how he will respond to most situations, As a "stereotype" he has a high moral level, and a strong sense of right and wrong. He doesn't have to waste time pondering or being confused or distracted by extremely unimportant factors in a situation that bottomline only effect the feelings of other heroes. 
 
I've read him from the beginning so I can say that Bendis has taken him back to his roots,.. you need to believe that he has never been charitable, or lead others? 
 
Really? 
 
Find a friend willing to lend you a stack of his Cage comics. 
 
TSK.
 

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