Kyle Rayner Latino?

#1 Posted by Savage_Hawkman (125 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Kyle Rayner still changed to half latino by Winnick or has that been re-reconned?

#2 Posted by Savage_Hawkman (125 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#3 Posted by JoseDRiveraTCR7 (1008 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think we have an answer. I don't remember it being addressed. Maybe Winnick has a formspring or twitter so you can ask him.

#4 Posted by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_hawkman: it would pretty racist if it was retconed so im pretty sure he stiil is

#5 Posted by JakeN7 (11556 posts) - - Show Bio

@savage_hawkman: it would pretty racist if it was retconed so im pretty sure he stiil is

How would that be racist?

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#6 Posted by Joygirl (19307 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: "Well, he was latino, but now he's white. Because we say so." Whitewashing is pretty racist in general.

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#7 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7 said:

@lifeofvibe said:

@savage_hawkman: it would pretty racist if it was retconed so im pretty sure he stiil is

How would that be racist?

Because, don't you know, promoting diversity in any form is racist because it involves the topic of race. Don't you know. [/snark]

#8 Posted by JakeN7 (11556 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

@jaken7: "Well, he was latino, but now he's white. Because we say so." Whitewashing is pretty racist in general.

Yes but it wasn't a selling point for his character. It had nothing to with his personality or the way he's presented. It's not like they're making John Stewart, Power Man, Falcon, Jaime Reyes or Vibe white. Kyle Rayner's always been...well...Kyle Rayner. Who cares about his vague ethnicity? If it was rarely ever mentioned, and the only way you'd know he wasn't white is if it was mentioned, why make a big deal about it? Besides, I haven't read anything in the New 52 to suggest that he is or isn't in the first place. The OP was asking a question that doesn't necessarily have a definitive answer.

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#10 Edited by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: Vague or not it still matters even if it doesn't effect there personality I mean the only reason wonder woman is white is because she's greek does that affect her personality no no it doesn't

#11 Posted by JakeN7 (11556 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe said:

@jaken7: Vague or not it still matters even if it doesn't effect there personality I mean the only reason wonder woman is white is because she's greek does that affect her personality no no it doesn't

Are you kidding? Diana's whole personality is based around the fact that she's princess of the Amazons and grew up on the all-female island of Themyscira where Greek deities are still worshiped.

When heroes like Power Man, Black Panther, and Falcon were created, it was a big deal. They were Black in a world of White superheroes. That's what separated them from all the other characters with similar power sets. It DID affect their personality, and the way they were written was based on their ethnicity. Black, Hispanic, Asian, etc. characters have their respective cultures and aesthetic traits that let us know they are a specific ethnicity. Hell, even white characters have that as well. The mannerisms of speech and slang words that Rogue uses indicate she's from the South. Or that Gambit (Remy LeBeau) is from New Orleans and has French ancestry. Or that The Hood, Knight and Squire, Constantine, etc. are British. Look at Simon Baz! His whole back story is based around the fear and persecution he experienced as an Islamic, Lebanese-American post 9/11. He has "courage" tattooed on his arm in Arabic and has spoken it on different occasions. He was even CHOSEN because he had the willpower and bravery to overcome the fear of prejudice due to his ethnicity, all while running from the authorities because he was a SUSPECTED TERRORIST.

Whether you like it or not, ethnicity DOES affect a character's personality, culture, background, etc.

When it comes to Kyle Rayner though, I've never read a comic where he spoke Spanish, had Hispanic features, or was affected at all by his heritage. When it's not a defining characteristic or selling point for that character, then it really shouldn't matter. Whether his estranged father is still a Mexican-American ex-CIA agent named Gabriel Vasquez using the cover alias Aaron Rayner, again, shouldn't matter because it's not a part of who Kyle is.

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#12 Edited by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7: the way your saying things is as if you want all diferent race characters in comics to all be sterotypico about there idevidual race and baz being muslim or indian does not affect his personality like kyle the only thing it affects is his skin

#13 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio
#14 Posted by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: that is a good arguement so I don't know. But like joygirl said maybe its only white washing that's racist. But then again they didn't technaly turm him black that's only in an alternate universe so I really don't know unless it was some sort of retconed version then that would mean that it is racist unless me saying that its racist makes me racist I really don't know what I should say there

#15 Posted by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: but I really don't know anything about marvel universe

#16 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: Saying that only "white-washing" things is racist, is actually racist.

#17 Posted by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: then yes it is racist that he turned him white

#18 Edited by lifeofvibe (3463 posts) - - Show Bio

@jaken7:

1.he doesn't speak spanish because he didn't grow up with his actual father

2. He has had story where he has latino features you just probably never read them as for any other story the artist is either ignorant or racist

3.I'm going to say this again for a different reason again

Even if it is vague let's face it he probably the most powerful green lantern secondly he's also the second most popular lantern that would also mean, assuming he's still latino he's also the most popular latino in comics which is rare considering that there not that many latinos in comics and there's not a most popular african american in comics unless john stewart is or luke cage or blade is. which is still up to debate for another time

But back to the topic all of the most powerful most popular characters just so happen to be caucasion which is racist and there just so happens to be a most powerful and popular lantern which is latino and if they changed him white then well that just adds to the list of most powerful and popular character just so happen to be caucasion its as racist as it sounds and that's how comics are

There you go I'm pretty sure he's still latino

#19 Posted by cameron83 (7149 posts) - - Show Bio

I have absolutely no idea what the argument is about,and honestly I don't care...I think Kyle is latino....at least that's what I see him as...

#20 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

I know I'm a bit late in this thread, but the question regarding Kyle being Latino is questionable. There's a few parts of his development haven't really been touched upon recently, since his solo run. Kyle having a Mexican born father in current continuity is one of them.

Justin Jordan briefly mentioned Kyle's family is going to make an appearance in a annual issue. Hopefully this would be clarified in that issue.

#21 Posted by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

So Winick made him Latino? It wasn't Ron Marz?

#22 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

So Winick made him Latino? It wasn't Ron Marz?

Yes. During Winick's run, it was revealed that Kyle's real father goes by the name of Gabriel Vasquez, instead of Aaron Rayner, which he was born in Mexico.

Kyle's mother was defined as an Irish descent in Marz's run, but his father never made an appearance. His father went by the name of Aaron Rayner. So most readers assumed Kyle was white, not mixed. It was until Judd Winick updated the status quo of his father to make a reveal that wasn't his real name, just a cover up. I would admit that it seems Judd's personal life influences are somehow connected in Kyle's book, since he took over.

In the New 52, his father's history doesn't have any background history references from Judd's run at all from both writers in the New 52. Kyle's ethnicity as a mixed person hasn't been touched upon, since Judd's run. So it's questionable whether writers still defined him the way Judd has. So it's questionable.

I believe there should be some clarification coming soon, regarding his personal background history in the upcoming annual book this year. So we'll see what happens there.

#23 Edited by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz said:
@daredevil21134 said:

So Winick made him Latino? It wasn't Ron Marz?

Yes. During Winick's run, it was revealed that Kyle's real father goes by the name of Gabriel Vasquez, instead of Aaron Rayner, which he was born in Mexico.

Kyle's mother was defined as an Irish descent in Marz's run, but his father never made an appearance. His father went by the name of Aaron Rayner. So most readers assumed Kyle was white, not mixed. It was until Judd Winick updated the status quo of his father to make a reveal that wasn't his real name, just a cover up. I would admit that it seems Judd's personal life influences are somehow connected in Kyle's book, since he took over.

In the New 52, his father's history doesn't have any background history references from Judd's run at all from both writers in the New 52. Kyle's ethnicity as a mixed person hasn't been touched upon, since Judd's run. So it's questionable whether writers still defined him the way Judd has. So it's questionable.

I believe there should be some clarification coming soon, regarding his personal background history in the upcoming annual book this year. So we'll see what happens there.

Thanks. I feel like it should have been Ron Marz making an important decision like that on the character he created but oh well lol

#24 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134: No problem.

I agree. It's one of the reasons why many readers during that era became frustrated about the reveal of his mixed race after the character has already been developed and established by Ron Marz.

#25 Edited by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz said:

@daredevil21134: No problem.

I agree. It's one of the reasons why many readers during that era became frustrated about the reveal of his mixed race after the character has already been developed and established by Ron Marz.

Well I think if Marz wanted him to be Latino he would have said something about it.

#26 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz said:

@daredevil21134: No problem.

I agree. It's one of the reasons why many readers during that era became frustrated about the reveal of his mixed race after the character has already been developed and established by Ron Marz.

Well I think if Marz wanted him to be Latino he would have said something about it.

True.

#27 Posted by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz: I really hope Jenny Lyn Hayden and Donna Troy come back some how

#28 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134: Me too! They became good friends down the line. Jenny is one of my favorite female characters.

#29 Edited by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

@mysoulz: I really hope Jenny Lyn Hayden and Donna Troy come back some how

Mine too but with Alan Scot mess I don't know if that can happen.Man I hate the new 52

#30 Posted by mysoulz (285 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

@mysoulz: I really hope Jenny Lyn Hayden and Donna Troy come back some how

Mine too but with Alan Scot mess I don't know if that can happen.Man I hate the new 52

Couldn't agree with you more lol.

#31 Posted by daredevil21134 (11368 posts) - - Show Bio

@mysoulz said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@daredevil21134 said:

@mysoulz: I really hope Jenny Lyn Hayden and Donna Troy come back some how

Mine too but with Alan Scot mess I don't know if that can happen.Man I hate the new 52

Couldn't agree with you more lol.

yup

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