can kitty phase a persons heart out of his or her body?
Kitty Pryde
Character » Kitty Pryde appears in 6440 issues.
Kitty Pryde (a.k.a. Shadowcat) is a mutant gifted with the ability to become intangible and phase her entire body through solid material. A talented prodigy, she became the poster child of the X-Men; eventually reaching maturation and becoming the team's current leader.
can kitty phase a persons heart out of his or her body
she can phase in and grip it but she'd have to rip it out of its organic matter so it's not connected to the body anymore to phase out.
When Kitty had to take Sabretooth down into the Morlock Tunnels (as part of a hostage exchange, swapping him for Jubilee who was held by Caliban), she often threatened to solidify her hand through his head. But I'm pretty sure that it was stated that if she really did it then she'd lose her hand too. She did say that she was prepared to lose her hand, if it would stop Sabretooth.
I'm pretty sure that for her to reach in and extract someone's heart, it would be a similar process; solidifyi her hand to grab the heart, but lose her hand in the process.
Then again, Shinobi Shaw had similar phasing powers. He often used his powers to kill people that way. He even thought he'd killed his own father, Sebatian Shaw, by phasing out his heart. So maybe...
not canon. neither will mine be but i liked xerox-kitty's take on it better.
for her to grab someones insides she needs to become solid enough first
to grab it. in the process, her molecules would mesh with the molecules in
the victims body. the physics in the What If? Astonishing X-Men scan above never
worked for me, and worked against what was already established in continuity.
heres the other take on it.
"I think there's one of her holding an iron bar or something inside someones head, threatening to let go. She doesn't have to sacrifice body parts to mess someone up. She can kill someone with a lollipop if she wants to. "
But thats putting something in, taking something out is a different matter. I don't think she can rip out someone's heart, I don't think she's got enough control to be that specific. Plus soon as she started solidifying her hand the pain would be excruciating to her.
wanted to say though that it really doesnt matter.
i can tell this question is Geared To Battle/Vs Thread Debate
in nature. if you look at either possibility or otherwise, the 1-shot
kill/win is still the outcome either way.
The one with the skull was from an earlier issue when she could not control her power as well and the What IF is her in her prime. She could do it.
so she cant rip a heart out of a person because she needs to solidify her hand inside the persons body and that would be OUCH OUCH OUCH
nope. the above scan is from a What If? i actually challenge anyone to provide an in canon
example, scan wise of her doing this. that was poor writing in that What If? clearly. if she attempted
such a thing she would have to first solidify to grab the already solid heart. doing so would be about the
same effect as her unphasing her own arm inside of a solid wall.
oh wait there's already a scan of it above
Well...I remember in the X-Men graphic novel back in the early 80's, and involved a televangelist (Stryker?) leading a crusade against mutants. Kitty phased her hand into a payphone and pulled out a fistful of quarters. In a dream sequence from that story, Kitty reaches into the Professors chest and pulls out his heart. That may be where the whole idea came from...
But durring Joss's run, Kitty did stuff like phase through miles of matter without needing to breath (she never coukld do that before) and in the classic fight scene with Emme, did things like phase her fist through a wall to punch Emma in the nose...which means she could keep her body in phase while solidifying her fist. If she can now control her powers well enough to do that, then reaching into a person...touching the heart...and phasing just the heart out of the victem doesn't seem like an impossibility.
Still, it involves way too many steps. When "Baron Karza" possessed Kitty (Micronauts/X-Men) he was able to use her powers to kill people very effectivly, and without all this fuss. Just grab someone, shove them half inside the wall or floor...and let go. They fuse with the wall, and the physical shock kills them.
" @erik: nope. the above scan is from a What If? i actually challenge anyone to provide an in canon example, scan wise of her doing this. that was poor writing in that What If? clearly. if she attempted such a thing she would have to first solidify to grab the already solid heart. doing so would be about the same effect as her unphasing her own arm inside of a solid wall. "There are plenty of issues that show she has the ability to select what is phased and what is solid on her body at the very same time. It would not take anything except the most superficial layer of her skin to be solid, touch the brain and then phase it. At that layer of her body, she would not even feel the damage it would cause to her skin other than maybe a sandpaper sensation. She has also shown the ability to be able to choose what is solid and what is phased on a person she has touched. So yes, she can do it.
i have to still disagree. your first example was from a dream sequence.
so its unusable. your other examples are ones where her arm itself
is still phased inside a solid plane, but her hand is unphased in an open
space. those examples dont work.
@erik:
i still disagree. provide an example of her doing it or it didnt happen.
its just as simple as that. its a comic book so physics can be sidelined,
if it actually is shown to happen, but to date it hasnt been, therefore it hasnt.
i can say for example that Wolverine can fire optic blasts from his eyes.
while this has never been shown, he could get Cyclops's powers from being
exposed to him for so long in reaction with his own healing factor. while its never
been shown and the physics of it make no sense, i say it could be and theres
no example of it not happening therefore it might as well have happened.
the physics of this do not work at all. your predicating that inside of a persons body there is a large enough cavity for her to unphase just her hand without her own molecules (and blood) being combined with another persons, and that the heart, and now the brain are just floating in midair in that space. your examples of why she can are also of her unphasing in an open space, then touching the person. itIt would not take anything except the most superficial layer of her skin to be solid, touch the brain and then phase it. At that layer of her body, she would not even feel the damage it would cause to her skin other than maybe a sandpaper sensation. She has also shown the ability to be able to choose what is solid and what is phased on a person she has touched. So yes, she can do it.
doesnt work.
Actually the physics work just fine for this. I never stated she could do something that she has not been shown to do through performing similar feats. I never really thought I would find someone with a bigger ego than me but here you are. I am not predicting anything of the sort but thank you for showing me that you did not understand me at all. How would her blood mix with anyones if she only has the most superficial layer of skin solid? Do you know that the epidermis is avascular? Apparently not. Furthermore, it does not even have to be but a single layer of that epidermis. She would barely notice the damage being done to the cells. Once solid, she is touching matter and it is a simple process to phase yet again to pull out the brain, heart, spleen, liver etc etc etc." @John_Feaster:
i have to still disagree. your first example was from a dream sequence.
so its unusable. your other examples are ones where her arm itself
is still phased inside a solid plane, but her hand is unphased in an open
space. those examples dont work.
@erik:
i still disagree. provide an example of her doing it or it didnt happen.
its just as simple as that. its a comic book so physics can be sidelined,
if it actually is shown to happen, but to date it hasnt been, therefore it hasnt.
i can say for example that Wolverine can fire optic blasts from his eyes.
while this has never been shown, he could get Cyclops's powers from being
exposed to him for so long in reaction with his own healing factor. while its never
been shown and the physics of it make no sense, i say it could be and theres
no example of it not happening therefore it might as well have happened.
the physics of this do not work at all. your predicating that inside of a persons body there is a large enough cavity for her to unphase just her hand without her own molecules (and blood) being combined with another persons, and that the heart, and now the brain are just floating in midair in that space. your examples of why she can are also of her unphasing in an open space, then touching the person. it doesnt work. "It would not take anything except the most superficial layer of her skin to be solid, touch the brain and then phase it. At that layer of her body, she would not even feel the damage it would cause to her skin other than maybe a sandpaper sensation. She has also shown the ability to be able to choose what is solid and what is phased on a person she has touched. So yes, she can do it.
sorry but your explanation doesnt work, already said it. im not sure why me disagreeing with it equals i have a big ego? there is no empty space for her to unphase her hand and not only touch but ot grab onot said organs. even where there is no tissue, which is not a large amount of space at all, there are fluids and cells. hence the What If? equation with Wolverine. and the incident again with Wolverine in X-Men Forever. and as John_Fester has pointed out in canon icnidents where she has unphased something inside a solid and it became one with it. i totally disagree with your reasoning, already pointed out why. provide an example, that being a scan of her doing what your claiming in a canon issue of Marvel comics otherwise it hasnt occured.
" @erik: sorry but your explanation doesnt work, already said it. im not sure why me disagreeing with it equals i have a big ego? there is no empty space for her to unphase her hand and not only touch but ot grab onot said organs. even where there is no tissue, which is not a large amount of space at all, there are fluids and cells. hence the What If? equation with Wolverine. and the incident again with Wolverine in X-Men Forever. and as John_Fester has pointed out in canon icnidents where she has unphased something inside a solid and it became one with it. i totally disagree with your reasoning, already pointed out why. provide an example, that being a scan of her doing what your claiming in a canon issue of Marvel comics otherwise it hasnt occured. "The way you address me in every post you choose to address me in says you have an ego. My explanation works fine and you did not even effectively address it. There is also no space in the ground that she unphased Hulk into but she did it anyway. There is your example. Try and tell me that scan did not happen. In fact, your entire argument does nothing against mine at all.
@erik:
i think your just mad because im not agreeing with you actually. the way im addressing you
is im in disagreement. therefore your assessment of me. and pointless as well. doesnt prove
anything about Kitties powers. i wont tell you that didnt happen to Hulk. but the problem again is that
example helps nothing. she didnt unphase herself inside the hulk for one. for two, Hulk can metabolize
being combined with another material. he has metabolized himself from being turned into stone and metal,
back to normal.
furthermore...
..basically this in a nutshell..
in one incident non-canon it has been shown she can pull of this cartoonish and silly move,
in any other non-canon, its been shown she will fuse on a molecular level if she attempts it.
it doesnt really matter how much of herself she unphases either, once she does she is automatically
part of that object. provide a real example of her unphasing her hand inside of a solid or liquid and pulling out an organ, canon, and i agree, otherwise no. your logic does not work on the basis that she is unphasing her own molecule at the in the exact space as other molecules. if she unphased her fingertips
for example inside of stone, her fingertips would be fused with stone molecules, and this would work retro-actively against any effect she attempted from there on out.
" @erik:I find it hilarious that to prove your point about Kitty's powers, you try to use Vision who is not Kitty. Fuzing one layer of skin will not even damage her. I do not understand why you have such a hard time understanding how losing one layer of skin on your fingertips is not harmful. The only real conclusion I can come up with is that you are being purposely obtuse. Furthermore, you seem to not have a clear understanding of Kitty's power anyway. When she drops something inside something else, they do not fuze so much as pulverize each other in an attempt to occupy the same space. She has also said she can pull the brain out of Emma once IIRC.
i think your just mad because im not agreeing with you actually. the way im addressing you
is im in disagreement. therefore your assessment of me. and pointless as well. doesnt prove
anything about Kitties powers. i wont tell you that didnt happen to Hulk. but the problem again is that
example helps nothing. she didnt unphase herself inside the hulk for one. for two, Hulk can metabolize
being combined with another material. he has metabolized himself from being turned into stone and metal,
back to normal.
furthermore...
..basically this in a nutshell..
in one incident non-canon it has been shown she can pull of this cartoonish and silly move,
in any other non-canon, its been shown she will fuse on a molecular level if she attempts it.
it doesnt really matter how much of herself she unphases either, once she does she is automatically
part of that object. provide a real example of her unphasing her hand inside of a solid or liquid and pulling out an organ, canon, and i agree, otherwise no. your logic does not work on the basis that she is unphasing her own molecule at the in the exact space as other molecules. if she unphased her fingertips for example inside of stone, her fingertips would be fused with stone molecules, and this would work retro-actively against any effect she attempted from there on out. "
actually i used Vision as an example of why Hulk can metabolize being fused with anohter material. i even clarified that right beforehand. and agian you insult me because i dont agree with you (and quote Shawshank Redemption for whatever reason?)
as for unphasing a bit of skin because it actually is harmful as why, and as i said retroactive to a further attempt. first, she will indeed be incredible pain. not that i suggest this, but say you put a little bit of acid on your skin, or burn it. do you understand how this works and ones reflex reaction? also, ill just allow the experiment here. so she unphases a spot on one fingertip less than the diameter of a dime. she touchesEmma's heart, and phases it. then what? how exactly does she grab onot it, and have sufficiant enough strenght to pull it out, givn the above mentioned pain factor as well? all of that outside the fact that the only time it was shown was in a non-canon issue, and in any other non-canon issue, it was shown to be harful for her to do this? can you or can you not provide a real example of her pulling out another characters organs in canon, y/n? otherwise i dont agree as you have no proof, and your theory of " how here powers could work " contain logic holes and are only the source of your own fanfic version of the character.
How was I quoting Shawshank Redemption? Oh wait I see. No one has used the word obtuse before that movie right? I did not even use it the same way he used it. Have you even seen that movie? 9_9" @erik: actually i used Vision as an example of why Hulk can metabolize being fused with anohter material. i even clarified that right beforehand. and agian you insult me because i dont agree with you (and quote Shawshank Redemption for whatever reason?)as for unphasing a bit of skin because it actually is harmful as why, and as i said retroactive to a further attempt. first, she will indeed be incredible pain. not that i suggest this, but say you put a little bit of acid on your skin, or burn it. do you understand how this works and ones reflex reaction? also, ill just allow the experiment here. so she unphases a spot on one fingertip less than the diameter of a dime. she touchesEmma's heart, and phases it. then what? how exactly does she grab onot it, and have sufficiant enough strenght to pull it out, givn the above mentioned pain factor as well? all of that outside the fact that the only time it was shown was in a non-canon issue, and in any other non-canon issue, it was shown to be harful for her to do this? can you or can you not provide a real example of her pulling out another characters organs in canon, y/n? otherwise i dont agree as you have no proof, and your theory of " how here powers could work " contain logic holes and are only the source of your own fanfic version of the character. "
No she will not feel pain. There are no nerves, nerve endings or blood vessels in the epidermis.
She does not need to grab onto anything. Once she touches it and selects what to phase, the organ will fall right on out of the body for as long as Kitty is in contact with it.
There are far more logic holes in your theory as you still think there are blood vessels and nerves in the epidermis when you are flat out wrong on that. Not to mention that you just outright lie when you have someone who contests your opinion. I have no such fanfic version of the character.
Asking for proof of Kitty committing murder is a pretty stupid thing to ask for when she is an X-Man and tries to never kill. It does not have to be an organ. If she can do it with other objects, she can do it with organs.
yes i have seen the movie. you directly quoted it from Andy to the Warden.(for fun i guess).
belligerent to the point however that your insulting me because i dont agree with you.
doesnt change the fact that i do. stop being such a child.
again, i get what you trying to say, youve already said it and i disagree with it. does phasing it work?
yes. its the unphasing on her part while her molecules are intertwined with others. im not sure whats unclear about the idea. not that i need to add that Emma turns to diamond form as a matter of reflex either, and in said form no longer requires her bodly functions to exist. in fact, the scene from What If? Astonishing X-men isnt even an example of what your saying. in that scene she pahses her entire
arm inside of Emma, unphases the entire arm inside, grabs the heart (doesnt phase it) and simply rips it out of her body Mortal Kombat style. so yes, im still calling that scene into question for accuracy.
nd again, considering any other scene, even in non-canon stories goes against that (i even provided one which you are ignoring)
how is it a lie for me to say that your idea of what she can do is speculative when its never been shown that she can? your writing fanon, simply put.
into the notion of phasing the organ again, she still would need to grab onto said organ, and pull it out. this is where just touching it is fail forever. doesnt matter because she still needs to grab ahold of it to pull it. that takes more than just a small area unphased. also it takes force and strenght, because of comparative density especially. and the idea of touching it, phasing it, and it " falling out " is ridiculous as well. if theres an air bubble inside my body, or even a pocket of nothing at al, it wont simply float through my body. even a pneumonia has to physically work its way through. otherwise it would just travel with me, especially being so light, much like
a balloon. even when Kitty phases herself through anything, she is still exerting a measure of force and momentum combined to pass through it, again, like a flu virus. she would need to grab onto said organ, meaning unphasing, to exert the kind of force, or even hold onto it regardless of it being brought to her own density to pull it out in the first place. especially considering it lacks any weight once its phased, so therefore gravity for it is at its center, it wont go of its own accord, definatly not without something to direct it.
theirs just too many factors youve ommised here.
and actually, im still asking for proof. show me her doing this. otherwise she cant. its not hard to understand. if a character hasnt done something then they dont. one can say they could, but if another
says they dont (myself in this case) then we are at a point of imposition. much like in real life you could say that ghosts exist, and why they should, and i can say they dont, and why they shouldnt, then its not real until it finally happens in real time. you can say UFO's from outer space exist, and describe exactly what they do, and why its logical, but unless thats both documented and proved, it still continues to only be a claim and nothing else. ei: documented proof. i know you understand this so why drop that point, much less try and argue it as if it we're wrong? if Kitty can do this even though its never been fine, okay, but then i get to say Wolverine can fire optic blasts from his eyes and it must also be agreed upon, because its the same thing.
Using the word obtuse does not mean I took it from the movie. The movie is hardly the first situation where the word was used. Why not simply watch the movie? As I said before, I did not even use it in the same sentence that was used in the film, therefore not quoting. If you are going to call someone out, at least make sure you know what you are talking about. I also did not insult you because you disagree with me. In fact, I did not even insult you. So who is the child now? Making up lies and demanding proof of specifics that have never been shown. Childish.
I did not once reference the what if story line. Though I am not surprised that you have me confused with someone else. You seem to just be confused generally speaking. You said that you provided proof, but all I see is a scan from a what if comic, which I never said was valid or invalid. To be honest, it does not even have to do with anything at all because it is a what if story and carries as much weight as the what if story where Emma has her heart taken out. You seem to not really know what you are arguing about. Shocker. 9_9
It is a lie when you say I have a fanfic version of a character when I do not. I also provided proof of her phasing someone into solid objects, being selective about what she chooses to phase and another viner has provided proof that she can grab objects while phased. All three of those combined simply prove you wrong. Get over it.
She does not need to grab an organ to phase it. She only needs to touch it child. All she has to do is have it phased, and unless both parties remain perfectly still, the organ will be moved. In fact, if she has it phased, and takes a step back while having say, her hand resting under the organ with the intention to phase said organ, that organ is coming with her as it has nothing to keep it within the body. It is clear you did not have a complete understanding of my post since you assume I meant she could just touch it once and without a tactile connection to the object, still control its density. I never said that.
It is not too hard to understand her power (certain parties excluded of course). If she can touch it and it is within the density range of objects she can phase, she can phase it. I and other viners have proven as much and she has even said she could. Therefore you are wrong.
well, yes you did actually. you keep calling me obtuse, an egotist and so on. and you continue to after saying your not. why should i have to point this out? i dont agree with you and its making you emotional, its that obvious, why even deny that?
you referenced the What If? story actually, thus i adressed you there. also its an open thread, meaning im adressing the point as well, not yourself exclusively.
its not a lie. simply put, you told me a scenario that did not happen in the comcis as if it did happen. not fanfic, fanon. thats when one takes aspects
and combines them in order to make a "could scenario". still isnt canon. Human Torch could melt Iceman. he could shake off Icemans effects.
but in both encounters, Iceman snuffed him out. so saying it could be done is one thing, saying it did is another entirely. while in contrast in physics Magneto cannot shield a nuclear blast with an electromagnetic forcefield, yet it is agreeable that he can, since its on panel, and files under Law Of Comic Science.
already understood what youve been repeating again, and i disagreed. your logic definatly just doesnt work in the how, already said why.
@White Mage said:
" She almost did it to Emma in Endsong "arguable, but not really. thats solid canon material. then it can be agreed that she can. so it is written so let it be played. points to you, not to the other. lol.
" @erik:Nope. I am not emotional but it is cute that you think I am based on posts that are contrary to yours.
well, yes you did actually. you keep calling me obtuse, an egotist and so on. and you continue to after saying your not. why should i have to point this out? i dont agree with you and its making you emotional, its that obvious, why even deny that?
you referenced the What If? story actually, thus i adressed you there. also its an open thread, meaning im adressing the point as well, not yourself exclusively.
its not a lie. simply put, you told me a scenario that did not happen in the comcis as if it did happen. not fanfic, fanon. thats when one takes aspects
and combines them in order to make a "could scenario". still isnt canon. Human Torch could melt Iceman. he could shake off Icemans effects.
but in both encounters, Iceman snuffed him out. so saying it could be done is one thing, saying it did is another entirely. while in contrast in physics Magneto cannot shield a nuclear blast with an electromagnetic forcefield, yet it is agreeable that he can, since its on panel, and files under Law Of Comic Science.
already understood what youve been repeating again, and i disagreed. your logic definatly just doesnt work in the how, already said why.
@White Mage said:" She almost did it to Emma in Endsong "arguable, but not really. thats solid canon material. then it can be agreed that she can. so it is written so let it be played. points to you, not to the other. lol. "
I never tried to use the what if story in my argument. Again you spout lies. I may have addressed someone else using it, but I never used it in my argument.
I provided you with an example of the way she has already proven she can use her powers. Not fanfic and therefore your title as a liar remains.
But since you have already admitted defeat at the hands of another viner, I am satisfied. I do not need you to admit as much to me as I am sure pride and ego would not allow you to.
cant say i read what you just typed, im sure theres more emotionally driven l slams directed at me there
anyways, therefore not even worth my time. been fun talking to you though, i do like the fact that you actually bother bringing up details and points to the debate. more than most people do, if thats anything to you. but again, grow up (unless your just a kid then keep it in mind for later of course)
though i do own the fact that i claimed it never happened in canon. just flipped through the issue and it is correct.
i was wrong and didnt check my facts enough on that end. here is the proof that she can.
not sure why. you yourself didnt remember that either. and no, i read Warsong, just didnt come to mind, nor did i bother doing some investigating first. but im glad you got amusement, or something. i still think your a little weird. lol.
" @erik: not sure why. you yourself didnt remember that either. and no, i read Warsong, just didnt come to mind, nor did i bother doing some investigating first. but im glad you got amusement, or something. i still think your a little weird. lol. "You are right that I did not remember the Endsong issue. If I had, I would have used it. Everyone thinks I am a little weird. I take no offense to the opinion.
its fine. trust me no actual emotional inference on my end. ive actually been too tired to even get into this as much as i would like (i do like the occasional heated argument, just for the sake of getting my heart pumped, i wont even lie about this). im actually glad im wrong. now i can debate that Kitty can beat damn near anyone and i now have the scans to prove it thanks to yourself and Mage, lol.
" @erik: its fine. trust me no actual emotional inference on my end. ive actually been too tired to even get into this as much as i would like (i do like the occasional heated argument, just for the sake of getting my heart pumped, i wont even lie about this). im actually glad im wrong. now i can debate that Kitty can beat damn near anyone and i now have the scans to prove it thanks to yourself and Mage, lol. "Lol. Those debates will be pretty fun to watch. I obviously share the same fondness for heated debates.
@CATMANEXE:
Ok, so we went from a "Diva" word slam, to a "Diva" bitch slap fight, to a "Diva" air kiss and make up?..............................................This is too much like the time I was alone with my menopausal grandmother.
I'm not suggesting that she COULD pull someones heart out. It's only happened in a dream sequence. I'm just saying that the writer of the What If might have gotten the idea from the dream sequence. As it stands, though...established continuity has never ment less than it does right now. A writer might just have her start doing so - previously established limitations on her powers be damned - and if so...we'll have to get used to it.
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