Kaine should Kill Supervillains

#1 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine should really kill supervillains like Carnage ,Salamander and Carlos Lobo.I thought that Kaine was suppose to be the dark version of Spider-Man who kills Supervillains like them who kill the innocent.They also say that in Scarlet Spider #15 that We kid you not: Scarlet Spider will never be the same after this issue.Does this mean that Kaine will become his old killing people self the way we people like or they are just trolling us.I liked Kaine when I read the whole Clone Saga and Mark of Kaine Saga.Who he was and how and why he killed people.He was badass and we like him the way he used to be in the past not like this that he cries that he doesn't want to be a superhero and I was a failure clone,that I killed people for a living etc.Christopher Yost should make him the way he is supposed to be a dark Spider-Man who has the morals to kill people like them.

#2 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

Kaine is a darker vision of Spidey, even though he don't kill people, he hurts them a lot more.

What is happening to Kaine is development and I for one like it. There is a reason he have remors from his past life, he was given a second chance in life. He is trying to figure out what kind of person he is, leaving his killing days behind as much as he can. He is slowly becoming the hero he should be a anti-hero vision of spider-man while honoring Peter by not killing everyone only as a last solution. If we had a seires with Kaine just killing everyone it would become boring quit fast.

#3 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@pulseangel666: IT is boring that Kaine feels remorse for his past life and it is getting boring that he is not killing anyone he was about to kill carnage because he was too dangerous to keep alive but he didn't.Come on it is already boring because he is a carbon copy of Spider-Man and even Otto is doing a great job than he is.I believe you have not seen this forum I'm dissapointed and everybody there agrees with me.If you are going to say that he is not going to kill like Spider-Man does than this proves that this is boring and we do not need to see another Spider-Man.End of Discussion.

#4 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@pulseangel666:Take a look at this image

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/8200/scarletspider4thegroup0.jpg.

#5 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut: Yeah they agree on some points (mostly on the bit that he is to melodramatic at times, I also think he is a tad whiny at times, but it is no worse than Batman). Many people I have seen on here and on other site and many of the reviews around the internet love the series,. But why don't you pick up another series if you are bored with this one? There is plenty out there with heroes that kill, pick up some of the early spawn issues by Todd McFarlan I bet you would like those :) or maby you will find the new Spidey ongoing better?

Also Kaine is not a carbon copy of Spider-Man far from it, they are like twins but with completly different mindsets, Kaine is dark and brooding, Peter used to be light and warmhearted (Spock is another story).

Kaine don't take pleasue in what he is doing and if you have read scarlet spider 13 he even scares innocent girls to keep them safe, something Peter would never do. Kaines series also deals with themes to dark for the more mainstream Spider-man series (like the recent humantraffic stuff). Also Kaine is a lot more violent he don't care if he breaks someones bones or sends them into a coma.

I still think he would be willing to kill, but only if it realy counts and there is no other option. Something Peter never ever would do under any circumstance. (and mostly I think Kaine do not kill out of respect from his brother Peter, and also if you where given a second chance in life, it would be a waste to go back to your old self. And not trying to be something bigger and better than before. Showing compassion is a greater gift then killing).

Saying he is boring because he don't kill would be the same as saying Iron Man is boring because he stopped drinking.

But allas maby we can agree to disagree. :)

#6 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

Also this :

@consolemaster001 said:

most of the time he's like : "I'M NOT A HERO ! I'M JUST A LOUSY PSYCHOPATH KILLER WAAH WAAH"

Kaine was always written to be extremely depressed. Always. More even. Yost has yet to write a monologue that comes anywhere close to the self loathing in the J.M. Dematties stuff.

At least the Superior Spider-Man is virtually remorseless because that's how Ock always was, no matter what side he's on. But with Kaine, why would they bother to turn a sympathetic villain into the protagonist if they were just gonna drop everything that defined him as one?

@consolemaster001 said:

I was expecting kaine to be a dark, badass version of spiderman

Forrest for the trees much?

Point One:

Issue 1:

Issue 2:

Issue 3:

Issue 4:

Issue 5:

Issue 6:

Issue 7:

Issue 8:

Issue 9:

Minimum Carnage Alpha:

Issue 10:

Venom 26:

Issue 11:

Venom 27:

Minimum Carnage Omega:

Issue 12:

Issue 12.1:

Issue 13:

All credit to hope you don't mind me copy pasting this into this thread.

#7 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@pulseangel666 said:

@RogueJuggernaut: Yeah they agree on some points (mostly on the bit that he is to melodramatic at times, I also think he is a tad whiny at times, but it is no worse than Batman). Many people I have seen on here and on other site and many of the reviews around the internet love the series,. But why don't you pick up another series if you are bored with this one? There is plenty out there with heroes that kill, pick up some of the early spawn issues by Todd McFarlan I bet you would like those :) or maby you will find the new Spidey ongoing better?

Also Kaine is not a carbon copy of Spider-Man far from it, they are like twins but with completly different mindsets, Kaine is dark and brooding, Peter used to be light and warmhearted (Spock is another story).

Kaine don't take pleasue in what he is doing and if you have read scarlet spider 13 he even scares innocent girls to keep them safe, something Peter would never do. Kaines series also deals with themes to dark for the more mainstream Spider-man series (like the recent humantraffic stuff). Also Kaine is a lot more violent he don't care if he breaks someones bones or sends them into a coma.

I still think he would be willing to kill, but only if it realy counts and there is no other option. Something Peter never ever would do under any circumstance. (and mostly I think Kaine do not kill out of respect from his brother Peter, and also if you where given a second chance in life, it would be a waste to go back to your old self. And not trying to be something bigger and better than before. Showing compassion is a greater gift then killing).

Saying he is boring because he don't kill would be the same as saying Iron Man is boring because he stopped drinking.

But allas maby we can agree to disagree. :)

Dude I don't want to pick another series and I have already seen the early spawn issues and I do like them but not as much as Kaine Because other Superheroes do not have interesting stories about their past present and future.I thought that Kaine was the Punisher version of Spider-Man.I do really like him a lot because he is one of my favorite superheroes besides Spider-Man but I want to see him for who he really is.Not just someone who goes on and on about his past and whines about it.If he doesn't kill Supervillains he is going to get that Old Parker Luck and is going to get someone dear to him like Aracely or Annabelle killed.The reason we disagree is that you don't understand what I am trying to say.Somehow they are going to replace Kaine with making the comeback of Spidercide .Why do you think he is an unused character and doesn't have his ongoing series just like his brothers thats why.If he gets replaced just like Spider-Man was replace me and some other fans will be furious by this event.

#8 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut: Check out the post from colonelrunaway i copied, Kaine has always been a bit melodramatic. Kaine still is like a Punisher vision of spidey eventough he do not kill.

I do understand what you are trying to say and Kaine is one of my favorit superheroes as well, I simple do not agree with you that he should kill every villian, like you don't agree with me and say that he should.

And as for Kaine being replaced by Spidercide is never going to happen. Maby spidercide is going to show up but he is not replacing Kaine, there is no logic to support that.

#9 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@pulseangel666: You said that Kaine does not kill out of respect for his brother Peter but it means he has a responsibility which is huge contradiction to what is written in the title.It depicts that Kain has all power no responsibility and because of this I feel confused about Kaine's character is not clearly written is what upsets me about the Scarlet Spider Issues.Don't you agree with me that it sounds a little bit farfetched.Sure he regrets about his past but he should know better that he did what he did because of his cellular degeneration that twisted his mind.

#10 Posted by pulseangel666 (329 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut said:

@pulseangel666: You said that Kaine does not kill out of respect for his brother Peter but it means he has a responsibility which is huge contradiction to what is written in the title.It depicts that Kain has all power no responsibility and because of this I feel confused about Kaine's character is not clearly written is what upsets me about the Scarlet Spider Issues.Don't you agree with me that it sounds a little bit farfetched.Sure he regrets about his past but he should know better that he did what he did because of his cellular degeneration that twisted his mind.

Maby you are right. but lets see what future issues bring :)

#11 Posted by Cap10nate (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh. I like the book. I don't mind seeing nameless henchmen being killed but I think it should be a spectacular story in order to kill a main villain. It's hard to build up a mythos for a character if they die in the first appearance. Kaine does complain a lot about why he is doing things but I think it is in there so much because this is a new series. The series is still picking up fans who may or may not know how or why Kaine to be where he is both location and state of mind. They might know him from past Spider-Man stories and not this 'hero' version so it is put in there each issue to let people know that he is still struggling with his decisions even if they haven't followed the entire series. I'm sure it will fade away.

It is very similar to what Brubaker did with Bucky Barnes. Once he was free of his brainwashing, he was portrayed to have remorse and be conflicted on how he should continue his life for the next few dozen issues. Once he had settled into his new role, that stopped and it is only brought back every now and then when appropriate to add to the situation. Kaine has done a lot of bad things and he isn't an inherently stand out guy so he is struggling with that. I'd prefer that Yost didn't plug that as much but I bet it will fade away after a few more issues and everyone knows who he is and what is his purpose.

#12 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cap10nate: I agree on that it is very similar to what Brubaker did with Bucky Barnes.Kaine is still not a hero but an anti-hero because he is the dark version of spider-man or should I say he is the Punisher of Spider-Man.He does things without remorse like chopping a guys nose or breaking somebody's arm which Spider-Man would never do.The reason I am upset is because it should take a few more issues to also show that he feels remorse for his past.The difference between Bucky and him is that Bucky is a hero for his country while Kaine is an anti-hero.For your information if you haven't read scarlet spider 10 and 11 there was a story and mythos about the characters and a reason for Kaine to kill carnage on which I was very upset that he did not kill him while he had the chance.

#13 Posted by Cap10nate (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut: I just think that with the way that comics are, it is hard to kill off a prominent super villain. From a business sense, it is a lot more profitable to have a popular villain return than try to create a new one. It's also easier because you don't have to do an origin and not have to worry about everyone just thinking that this is a knockoff of an older character who got the axe. I think Punisher is a great example of this. Since he kills basically everybody, he doesn't have a Red Skull or Dr. Doom or Joker etc that people get excited about when they show up. While in all logical sense, Kaine should have killed Carnage and most heroes should have killed their respective villains long ago, it doesn't make sense for Marvel to lose Carnage. I do that it could make for better stories if they were more deliberate with their deaths and let characters age, but it seems that everybody complains about change so they can't sustain it.

#14 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cap10nate:You don't get it do you villains can die and can come back alive just like Doc ock came back from the dead when he was killed by Kaine.I am not saying to kill carnage for good.He can be mystically revived just like any other character.Kaine has died twice and where is he now?He is a Anti-Hero now as the scarlet spider.Supervillains like carnage have always been able to come back from the dead.

#15 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29501 posts) - - Show Bio

The entire point of Scarlet Spider is that Kaine is on a hero's journey.

#16 Posted by Cap10nate (2300 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut said:

@Cap10nate:You don't get it do you villains can die and can come back alive just like Doc ock came back from the dead when he was killed by Kaine.I am not saying to kill carnage for good.He can be mystically revived just like any other character.Kaine has died twice and where is he now?He is a Anti-Hero now as the scarlet spider.Supervillains like carnage have always been able to come back from the dead.

I do get that supervillains can come back to life, but the constant death and ressurrection that happens has made death a mockery in comics. Just because he doesn't have Spider- man's morals doesn't mean he has to go for the kill shot everytime. like @InnerVenom123: said, he is on a hero's journey. He is trying to become a better person which would most likely lead to less killing. Anyway, in the fight with Carnage, doesn't Kaine try to snap his neck and go for the kill several times but it just doesn't work .

#17 Posted by RogueJuggernaut (92 posts) - - Show Bio

@Cap10nate: I can see that you are not much a fan of Scarlet Spider.It is already stated in issue # 15 that there is going to be one most violent fight in history of Scarlet Spider and it also says that he will never be the same again and that means he is going to kill someone like Carlos Lobo.If the constant death and resurrection that happens has made death a mockery in comics why do people like them and why do the writers go along with it.It gets kind of boring even if villains like carnage never die and nor do they have met their match.

#18 Posted by Degalon (737 posts) - - Show Bio

It's better that he doesn't kill. For the same reason the Punisher doesn't go around killing supervillains: There'd be no supervillains left, which makes for a really boring comic book as they struggle to keep coming up with a new "villain of the week".

Let him kill off minions and mooks, so that there's no real loss to marvel comics.

#19 Posted by consolemaster001 (5600 posts) - - Show Bio

@RogueJuggernaut: Someone's gotta do it !

#20 Posted by Teerack (6372 posts) - - Show Bio

If he did it would ruin his whole character. All of his development is about trying to be a better person.

#21 Posted by Scarlet_Spider_Forever (105 posts) - - Show Bio

I half agree with you on this. I believe that this is the most unique part of Kaine. Kaine wants to be better but doesn't want to be spider-man at the same time. In one issue Kaine cuts the nose of one of the human traffickers and in another he threatens to kill a man's entire family if he doesn't give up the location of a nuclear bomb. I mean it's not like Kaine " won't " kill super - villains but it may be in the cards later. Just not now. I mean he killed carnage so...?

#22 Posted by Phaedrusgr (1672 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: Nice comment. You think he doesn't focus on the monster that every man hides inside him though?

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