Why Can't There be Any Black Founders on the Justice League?

#1 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

Why do people complain about having Black founders in the Justice League?

When John Stewart founded the Justice League on the cartoon with the other six members, people complained.

When Cyborg founded the Justice League in the DCnU with the other six, people complained.

WTF.

Some people say that it should be only the "Original Seven" when that line-up constantly changes.

  • Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Aquaman (Silver Age)
  • Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, Black Canary, Aquaman (Year One)
  • Martian Manhunter, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Hawkgirl, Superman, Batman (Cartoon)
  • So why not Aquaman, Flash, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Cyborg, Superman, Batman?

I'm not saying it's racism, but can't Blacks have something? WTF. And don't try to convince me that the second-class status that is the extended roster is enough.

Even women have someone: Wonder Woman

And if you think that the Martian Manhunter is Black, you're crazy.

*Rant over.

Also, I acknowledge the title of this thread may be misleading since there have been Black founders.

#2 Posted by WildStyle (331 posts) - - Show Bio

This should be good.

*grabs popcorn*

#3 Posted by Ms. Omega (4404 posts) - - Show Bio

@WildStyle said:

This should be good.

*grabs popcorn*

"starts eating popcorn too"

#4 Posted by Psyron (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter can be used to substitute any Race on earth since he has shapeshifting powers and mind reading. He can be black, asian, hispanic, jew or caucasian.

#5 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Psyron said:

Martian Manhunter can be used to substitute any Race on earth since he has shapeshifting powers and mind reading. He can be black, asian, hispanic, jew or caucasian.

In physical appearace--not history or mentality which is what matters

#6 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Sure, a black character could be a founding member of the Justice League. Just not Cyborg, IMO. If it were me, I'd have gone with Steel.

#7 Posted by Psyron (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: Mentality wise? he can always copy their thoughts, culture and mannerisms with TP dude.

#8 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the problem with John in the animated is that people associate GL with Jordan and iirc the main GL at the time when the show was released was Rayner so people thought it would make more sense. As for Cyborg I think it's because people associate him with the Titans, I mean pre-N52 that's where his history mostly revolves around and now initial assumptions is that his moments with the Titans are now not applicable, plus he's a kid.

I think it would have made more sense to have either Mr. Terrific, Black Lightning or even Steel to be a founding member than a kid.

#9 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

It's not that there's an issue of a black person being a founding member, its the issue that the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the JLA should ALWAYS be: Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Flash, GL, Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter. And if that isn't the issue people complain about, it's the issue that cyborg SHOULD NEVER BE A FOUNDING MEMBER. He can be in the league sure, but not a founding member. There are so many better choices of African American heroes that could have been founding members, they didn't have to give Cyborg that much a massive push. He's a titan, always will be. Better choices would have been Steel, Black Lightning, Mister Terrific, or even Vixen but they reserved her for JLI.

#10 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Psyron said:

@Superdork: Mentality wise? he can always copy their thoughts, culture and mannerisms with TP dude.

Why would he turn his back on his Martian Culture?LOL

That insults J'onn and eveybody else who has any thought at all.

Martians are green. J'onn is green in history, experience skin color, background, mentality, etc. Let's move on.

Green and proud.
#11 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with Steps in regards to John Stewert. It was odd that they had Wally West (a leaguer in the books at the time) and not Kyle Rayner.

#12 Posted by Aiden Cross (15562 posts) - - Show Bio

@Steps said:

I think the problem with John in the animated is that people associate GL with Jordan and iirc the main GL at the time when the show was released was Rayner so people thought it would make more sense. As for Cyborg I think it's because people associate him with the Titans, I mean pre-N52 that's where his history mostly revolves around and now initial assumptions is that his moments with the Titans are now not applicable, plus he's a kid.

I think it would have made more sense to have either Mr. Terrific, Black Lightning or even Steel to be a founding member than a kid.

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

It's not that there's an issue of a black person being a founding member, its the issue that the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the JLA should ALWAYS be: Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Flash, GL, Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter. And if that isn't the issue people complain about, it's the issue that cyborg SHOULD NEVER BE A FOUNDING MEMBER. He can be in the league sure, but not a founding member. There are so many better choices of African American heroes that could have been founding members, they didn't have to give Cyborg that much a massive push. He's a titan, always will be. Better choices would have been Steel, Black Lightning, Mister Terrific, or even Vixen but they reserved her for JLI.

These two sum up my feelings on the subject pretty good =)

#13 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

@Psyron said:

@Superdork: Mentality wise? he can always copy their thoughts, culture and mannerisms with TP dude.

Why would he turn his back on his Martian Culture?LOL

That insults J'onn and eveybody else who has any thought at all.

Martians are green. J'onn is green in history, experience skin color, background, mentality, etc. Let's move on.

Green and proud.

Honestly? Not to be disrespectful or anything but that has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard... Green history? The colour of his skin doesn't make him who he is.

Moderator
#14 Posted by Adnan (1037 posts) - - Show Bio

The argument I hear tossed around is that Cyborg hasn't "earned it". He became Cyborg as result of the circumstances of being caught in the crossfire, whereas the rest of the league are 'established heroes' - except, bar Batman, they're not really? The way it's being handled does seem kinda forced (more the writer's fault than it is the character), though I'll admit the "he hasn't earned it" argument is one I don't understand.

#15 Posted by Psyron (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork:

Why would he turn his back on his Martian Culture? (Martians used to be burning martians, hence his weakness to fire to prevent that from happening again. He changed his racial appearance once and he can do it again)
LOL That insults J'onn and eveybody else who has any thought at all. Martians are green. (There are also white martians)
J'onn is green in history, experience skin color, background, mentality, etc. Let's move on. (He has used TP to probe a variety of human minds, he thinks in the way that humans do. So what makes a race a race? is it their perspective, their appearance or shared history ... if it is only that then MM can quality to represent a variety of things. He is practically superman with a whole bunch of other powers.
#16 Posted by Psyron (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@Adnan: I think its more to remove MM because they can't have him stealing the spotlight with his powers

#17 Posted by Greenflashlight (183 posts) - - Show Bio

I have seen a few things on comic vine saying that Cyborgs involvement is racist but I do not see it that way. After reading Flashpiont I was interested in Cyborg it was a great story that got my interest in the character and made me want to read and see more of him in the DCU a good story and character devlopment is NOT racist or bad it is a good change I like the new Justice League, But I think they used Cyborg for 1. His involvement in Flashpiont 2. To revamp the DCU and actually change thing about it 3. They made the character People complain because they can and because they cant read

#18 Posted by Kallarkz (3303 posts) - - Show Bio

Just because you don't understand peoples reasoning doesn't mean that pulling the race card should be your first option. Dang people need to grow up and stop doing that at every opportunity. They will see themselves and other minorities as constant victims for the rest of their lives when they are not "chosen" or "liked".

#19 Posted by Joygirl (18707 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the reason there "can't" be any black founding members is... well... because no black people founded the JLA. People have their view of who the founders should be (Bats, Supes, Wondy, Aquaman, MM, GL, Flash) and any deviance from that feels "wrong". DC is clearly trying to push Cyborg... did anyone notice he was Batman's right-hand man in the opening cinematic of DCUO?

#20 Posted by karrob (4278 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: The issue is there are not enough accomplished, black comic writers working for the big two. I have have an issue with token characters on teams. Storm on the Avengers? Wth is that about?

#21 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Superdork said:

@Psyron said:

@Superdork: Mentality wise? he can always copy their thoughts, culture and mannerisms with TP dude.

Why would he turn his back on his Martian Culture?LOL

That insults J'onn and eveybody else who has any thought at all.

Martians are green. J'onn is green in history, experience skin color, background, mentality, etc. Let's move on.

Green and proud.

Honestly? Not to be disrespectful or anything but that has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard... Green history? The colour of his skin doesn't make him who he is.

*Rant over.

#22 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl said:

I think the reason there "can't" be any black founding members is... well... because no black people founded the JLA. People have their view of who the founders should be (Bats, Supes, Wondy, Aquaman, MM, GL, Flash) and any deviance from that feels "wrong". DC is clearly trying to push Cyborg... did anyone notice he was Batman's right-hand man in the opening cinematic of DCUO?

Thats different cyborg was used as tech support, not as a founding member of the JLA which completely changes everything. He's been used as tech support in the past

#23 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5181 posts) - - Show Bio
@Psyron A copy is still not the original he's still not black.
#24 Posted by Psyron (1512 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon: He is not inherently, but he can be black or any other race he wants (he can be samoan and maori too)

#25 Posted by Joygirl (18707 posts) - - Show Bio

Tech support for THA' FREAKIN' BATMAN is still a step above "that one Teen Titan". All I'm saying is that it was a step in that direction. Of all the heroes that could have been alive and kicking during that war, Cyborg was one of them. Not Starfire or Nightwing or Hawkman or MARTIAN MANHUNTER. It was Cyborg.

#26 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Deranged Midget said:

@Superdork said:

@Psyron said:

@Superdork: Mentality wise? he can always copy their thoughts, culture and mannerisms with TP dude.

Why would he turn his back on his Martian Culture?LOL

That insults J'onn and eveybody else who has any thought at all.

Martians are green. J'onn is green in history, experience skin color, background, mentality, etc. Let's move on.

Green and proud.

Honestly? Not to be disrespectful or anything but that has to be one of the dumbest things I've heard... Green history? The colour of his skin doesn't make him who he is.

lolololololoolollolololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololLLLLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Green history=Green Martian history. Like Black history or Latin American History or Southeast Asian History. Get it?

And you're right. The color of his skin doesn't make him who he is. So if he changes it, then it doesn't matter. He's still a Martian at the end of the day. If Batman could copy the memories and mannuerisms of Blacks, would that make Batman black? No. He'd be a wiggar. Just because MM can do those things and shapeshift doesn't mean he's Black. Get it? It makes him the best Wiggar in history. That's it. Get it? He's not Black and never will be.

If the JLA were in Black face, would they be Black? No. That's basically what MM does--just more effectively. Take your BS somewhere else.

Plus J'onn will always be an outsider because he'll never really be human. Just cheap imitations. He's a Martian and no matter how much his friends accept him, he'll always be lonely. He'll always be not human. Get it?

And by your logic, MM is not just Black, he's also every race on earth and in the galaxy just because he can shapeshift. Dumb. I understand that you can't relate, but STFU.

Good day, sir.

#27 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork: You contradicted yourself many times. Calm down before you pop a blood vessel. I already said no disrespect so relax.

First of all, I have nothing against blacks or any other race. I wouldn't mind seeing more diversity to any superhero team but insulting me isn't going anywhere. Second of all, if J'onn was a white martian, he'd still be a martian. Same goes with any human character.

It's not the colour of their skin that makes them who they are, but it's through their actions that present themselves. Yes, it's honorable to represent the colour of their skin and their birthplace of origin but its not what makes them.. In the end, they're all still human, martian, etc.

Moderator
#28 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

@Joygirl: Have you been reading the DCUO comic? If you have been then you'd know that those characters were off in other cities fighting off the invasion, they weren't dead. Makes cyborg less special now. Was it good he got a push to be at batman's side? Yes, go right ahead. It's still not acceptable to make him a founder, however. I will never accept him as a founder, not because he is black, but because he will always be a Titan. As explained in my earlier posts.

#29 Posted by Shamelesslysupportinaznballers (553 posts) - - Show Bio

Why can't there be a Asian founding member in the Justice League. It's ridiculous that Jim Lee, who is Korean, is partly in charge of a company that has a black batman, static shock, mister terrific getting his own title and Cyborg is now a Justice League founding member.

I wish I had an Asian character that even has a solo title in the New 52 so that I can complain about how people don't like asian characters.

Rant over.

#30 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5181 posts) - - Show Bio
@Psyron And that has nothing to do with there not being a person of African heritage founding the JLA. He can IMPERSONATE someone of any race not become them, unless he's developed the power to alter his DNA as well.
#31 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio

How come there aren't any white founding Harlem Globe Trotters? There just aren't any. Get over it.

#32 Posted by davelecave (1113 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

Even women have someone

Lol

#33 Posted by Nova`Prime` (4157 posts) - - Show Bio

@karrob said:

@Superdork: The issue is there are not enough accomplished, black comic writers working for the big two. I have have an issue with token characters on teams. Storm on the Avengers? Wth is that about?

Because they killed the best one during Civil War.

R.I.P.
#34 Edited by feargalr (1154 posts) - - Show Bio

People complained about Jon Stewart being a founder in the Justice League show??? When the new 52 rolled around, and we decided to start reading comics, me and my friends were complaining that the main Green Lantern title was focused on Hal who we all hate.... (kinda cos of Ryan Reynolds) instead of John, who's always going to be a founding member for us.. in our hearts.... *tear*

Really though the only complaints about Cyborg I've heard is that he was traditionally a teen titans member

@Greenflashlight: If I wasn't so sleep deprived I would hope to say something as coherent as that on this matter.

#35 Posted by Duo_forbidden (1161 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee said:

It's not that there's an issue of a black person being a founding member, its the issue that the FOUNDING MEMBERS of the JLA should ALWAYS be: Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, Flash, GL, Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter. And if that isn't the issue people complain about, it's the issue that cyborg SHOULD NEVER BE A FOUNDING MEMBER. He can be in the league sure, but not a founding member. There are so many better choices of African American heroes that could have been founding members, they didn't have to give Cyborg that much a massive push. He's a titan, always will be. Better choices would have been Steel, Black Lightning, Mister Terrific, or even Vixen but they reserved her for JLI.

That's how I feel about it as well. Cyborg should always be known as a founding member of the Teen Titans. I was for Cyborg to be part of the Justice League before the New 52, but as a founding member? It just irks me even more how different the Teen Titans are now.

#36 Posted by joshmightbe (24690 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyborg has earned his place far more than Steel, I don't see why people think Steel would be better. Cyborg has been around longer, has a far more interesting back story and power set and is more recognizable. Honestly the only reason Steel got half the attention he did was because of the S on his chest where as Cyborg earned his spot on his own. I could understand the case for Black Lightening or Mr. Terrific but Steel has never been more than a substitute Superman/Iron Man knock off

#37 Posted by soccersss (537 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ms. Omega said:

@WildStyle said:

This should be good.

*grabs popcorn*

"starts eating popcorn too"

*grabs his own popcorn*

In all seriousness Cyborg hasn't done enough to be considered a founding member of the Justice League. If you really want a black founder of the Justice League, the only people who should be consdiered are Black Lightning or Mr. Terrific.

@Joygirl said:

I think the reason there "can't" be any black founding members is... well... because no black people founded the JLA. People have their view of who the founders should be (Bats, Supes, Wondy, Aquaman, MM, GL, Flash)

There is another problem as well since Cyborg is a relative new character compared to all these comic book veterans that his fanbase is no where the size as the likes of Supes and Wonder Woman or even Aquaman. As a result it feels like DC are throwing Cyborg into the spotlight undeservedly instead of making him earn it.

#38 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12565 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork you messed up the founding roster for the silver age. All of the seven were founding members.

#39 Posted by hydrabob (14977 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

Even women have someone: Wonder Woman

Not only are you racist, but sexist too. Congrats.

#40 Edited by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

Cyborg has earned his place far more than Steel, I don't see why people think Steel would be better. Cyborg has been around longer, has a far more interesting back story and power set and is more recognizable. Honestly the only reason Steel got half the attention he did was because of the S on his chest where as Cyborg earned his spot on his own. I could understand the case for Black Lightening or Mr. Terrific but Steel has never been more than a substitute Superman/Iron Man knock off

I think Steel is only suggested, for me at least, because he's known as a tech character and he's been in the JLA before. I mean, I know Cyborg was too, but that was when the Titans took over the JLA in the final months of the old DCU. Plus, with Steel's NEW origin, it's much better fitting. Even though Steel wore the crest, I never associated him as a superman-kinda guy, so that doesn't factor in for why I'd prefer Steel over Cyborg. Plus, at this point Steel would have been around for six years versus cyborgs 15 minutes.

#41 Posted by SoA (4697 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shamelesslysupportinaznballers: the ray , 4 issue mini , i believe he is korean , its a fun read

#42 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio

The Justice League originally started when there was segregation of blacks and whites.So I would only assume the Justice League of America wouldn't have any black people on it.Seeing as how DC changed the time line, there is no reason they can't NOW have a black founding member.I just don't like that they chose Cyborg.It seems he was replaced with Bunker who is incredibly lame and I only assume he's a Titan because he's gay and DC's trying to be all...conscious of other people's ethnicity and sexuality. 

Moderator
#43 Posted by joshmightbe (24690 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee: I was referring to the history of the DCU Cyborg was created like 13 years before Steel was

#44 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio
@Joygirl said:
Tech support for THA' FREAKIN' BATMAN is still a step above "that one Teen Titan". All I'm saying is that it was a step in that direction. Of all the heroes that could have been alive and kicking during that war, Cyborg was one of them. Not Starfire or Nightwing or Hawkman or MARTIAN MANHUNTER. It was Cyborg.
This is true but remember that the original Avengers had both Tony Stark and Hank Pym.Not only they two of America's greatest scientists Pym is skilled in some of the areas that Tony is most known for.
Moderator
#45 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe: I know, but I don't think that just because Cyborg was around longer that his seniority qualifies him as being ahead of anyone.

#46 Edited by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio
@karrob said:

@Superdork: The issue is there are not enough accomplished, black comic writers working for the big two. I have have an issue with token characters on teams. Storm on the Avengers? Wth is that about?

1.Storm isn't a token. 
2.Pretty much everyone is joining the Avengers. 
3.Seems racist that out of all the people who DON'T FIT on the Avengers you would pick out Storm for being "token".Especially seeing as how Marvel didn't reboot the universe so she could be a founding member.She's one of many characters that have joined in the past 4-5 years.
Moderator
#47 Posted by joshmightbe (24690 posts) - - Show Bio

@ArturoCalaKayVee: Well I personally think Cyborg is a far more interesting character than Steel so I'm ok with him getting the spot instead of Steel but I do agree there were several better candidates such as Mr. Terrific, Black Lightening or Even John Stewart (seriously I HATE Hal)

#48 Posted by joshmightbe (24690 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: If you go look at the Avengers roster page you'll see that at least half of the Marvel U either are currently or have been Avengers

#49 Posted by Vance Astro (91122 posts) - - Show Bio
@hydrabob said:

How come there aren't any white founding Harlem Globe Trotters? There just aren't any. Get over it.

Because the team was started on the South Side of Chicago which is a predominantly black neighborhood.It's actually really simple.
Moderator
#50 Posted by ArturoCalaKayVee (11127 posts) - - Show Bio

@joshmightbe said:

@ArturoCalaKayVee: Well I personally think Cyborg is a far more interesting character than Steel so I'm ok with him getting the spot instead of Steel but I do agree there were several better candidates such as Mr. Terrific, Black Lightening or Even John Stewart (seriously I HATE Hal)

I agree with Mister Terrific and Black Lightning, but I hate John Stewart ... and like Hal. We may be destined to be mortal enemies :P

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