who should lead the justice league

Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2146 posts) 1 year, 6 months ago

Poll: who should lead the justice league (63 votes)

batman 33%
superman 44%
wonder woman 5%
flash 0%
aquaman 14%
cyborg 2%
other(please specify) 2%

this is on the current team.(note. no Hal)

#1 Posted by flazam (2532 posts) - - Show Bio

batman!!

#2 Posted by ccraft (5496 posts) - - Show Bio

Without Batman as leader, he wouldn't really have a spot in the team

#3 Posted by SNascimento (442 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman considering the character in the JL comics or WW considering her in her own comics.

#4 Posted by Teerack (7363 posts) - - Show Bio

Billy!

#5 Posted by Battle_Forum_Junkie (8464 posts) - - Show Bio

A few people are saying Batman, but I think he's more of a loner then a leader.

I think Superman should lead and inspire the team, while Batman should guide Kal when it comes to the harder decisions when a compromise is needed.

#6 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7760 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is too much of a loner, can't inspire people like Supes does.

#7 Posted by Billy Batson (58266 posts) - - Show Bio

Can everyone stop saying Batman is a loner? That hasn't been true in the last 70 years.
BB

#8 Posted by Bruxae (14008 posts) - - Show Bio

No one should lead, they should work together.

Superman would be my choice if someone had too.

#9 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

superman is leader. batman is tactical advisor. wonder woman is pr ambassador. john stewart is the trainer. barry allen is the people's hero

#10 Posted by Rabidwolfdog (259 posts) - - Show Bio

Aqua-man should get a shot at leading. He seems to be the guy Geoff Johns is focused on.

#11 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

batman fanboys need to understand that beimg a tactical advisor is not being a leader. while batman has respect, he does not inspire loyalty or hope. he does not have superman or captain america's charisma.

#12 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7760 posts) - - Show Bio

batman fanboys need to understand that beimg a tactical advisor is not being a leader. while batman has respect, he does not inspire loyalty or hope. he does not have superman or captain america's charisma.

#13 Edited by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio

First we have to acknowledge that there are multiple interpretations of every character. And I have to acknowledge that I look at the Justice League as a five man band (plus cameos).

Five-Man Band

The Five-Man Band is a group of characters whose members fall into archetypes which all complement one another. They are a very specific team with skills that contribute to the group in a unique way.The group traditionally includes:

  • The Leader(lead singer) The leader of the group. Can be a mastermind, charismatic, levelheaded, headstrong, or some combination of the four. Often also The Hero.
  • The Lancer(lead guitar) The second-in-command, usually a contrast to The Leader. If the Leader is clean-cut and/or uptight, the Lancer is a grizzled Anti-Hero or Deadpan Snarker; if the Leader is driven and somewhat amoral, the Lancer is more relaxed and level-headed.
  • The Smart Guy(keyboardist) The physically weak, but intelligent or clever member. Often nerdy and awkward played for comic relief. Sometimes unconventionally young (early- to mid-teens). Sometimes a Trickster and a buddy of the Big Guy. May be the one with all the "street" connections.
  • The Big Guy(drummer) The strongman of the team. May be dumb. Or mute.
  • The Chick(vocal effects, tambourine) A peacekeeping role to balance out the other members' aggression, bringing them to a nice or at least manageable medium. The Chick is often considered the heart of the group. This role is played by a woman or girl. Someone female. Otherwise, it is not a Five-Man Band.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand

Pre-Flashpoint:

Superman is the leader, Batman is the lancer, and Wonder Woman is the chick. John Stewart and Wally West alternated between which character was the big guy and which one was the smart guy depending on the writer and the story. It was a simple dynamic that was reinforced by the Bruce Timm cartoon. Sometimes other members would play these roles, but usually the other characters were riffs on these types or were background characters.

---------------------------------------------

Post-Flashpoint

Here is what you need to understand: DC loved Hal and throught his movie would be a success. In addition, Superman was not selling like he should have been and the studios needed a version of the team that could be adapted to film (this includes increasing diversity to compete with Marvel and to quiet the whitewashing accusations). Finally, Batman had (and still has) the biggest franchise of any superhero by far.

In response, we got the New 52 origin story in which Batman, the highest selling character, is put at the center of the story. Green Lantern, the second highest selling character, is the first superhero Batman meets. And Superman, the third highest selling character, becomes more like his badass golden age version and less like his famous nice guy persona. This radically changes the five man band dynamic.

Batman becomes the Leader.

Green Lantern becomes the Lancer.

Cyborg becomes the (tragic) Smart Guy.

Superman becomes the (quiet) Big Guy.

Wonder Woman retains her role as the chick.

Flash and Aquaman don't fit, so they either contribute jokes or nothing.

See what I mean here:

I don't hate this change-up, but it has not been embraced. The reasons that the New 52 versions still has not been embraced by fans include: (1) People like Superman being the hope Guy and the leader because this is his most well known version (which is soon to be cemented by Man of Steel), (2) The origin is not that well written and has too many characters (a lot could be cut from the story, including Aquaman and Flash, and nothing would change; further, the story had no theme), (3) Many characters were poorly written in their new roles. Batman couldn't lead the team as hard as he tried. Green Lantern was more of an annoying lancer than a funny one. Wonder Woman and Cyborg were VERY one dimensional. Superman was even more one dimensional, had no great dialogue, and was suddenly more like Wolverine than his most well known interpretation.

---------------------------------------------

Post-Trinity War

I believe that Zack Snyder and Bruce Timm are secretly working on the Justice League movie (based on internet rumors). I believe that Geoff Johns is going to change the roster of the New 52 Justice League to remove Cyborg and add John Stewart to reflect the Justice League film roster (based on the Triptych for Trinity War and speculation).

Covers for Justice League of America, Justice League Dark, and Justice League, respectively.

If this is true, then the next five man band we see may be:

Superman as Leader

Batman as Lancer

Wonder Woman as Chick

John Stewart as Big Guy

Barry Allen as the Smart Guy

---------------------------------------------

Who I Think Should Lead: Superman. He's an inspiration and he's the first superhero. Batman would be my second choice, but I prefer him as an adviser. It fits his character better and DC already gives him enough love. We don't need another team or book to revolve around Batman.

What are your thoughts on my analysis?

#14 Posted by Franchise1590 (298 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman should lead because Supes hasn't done anything to sjow he's fit to lead yet.

I think people want him to lead but it doesn't fit his personality at all.

I think it should be either Batman 1st, Wonder Woman 2nd, or Aquaman as a very close 3rd.

These characters are all already leaders of groups and they don't fear becoming ruler of earth like Clark always fears becoming.

#15 Posted by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio

@franchise1590: WW, Aquaman, and Batman have not shown real leadership skills in the New52. If they have please point it out. In JL, Wonder Woman is bloodthirsty, Aquaman is socially impotent and defers to Batman, and Batman can't even get everyone to follow his orders. They should just make it pre-Flashpoint style and have Superman return to leadership, IMO.

#16 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13604 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman (with Wonder woman and Batman as advisors/lieutenants) or Cyborg (to boost his profile and actually have him do something).

#17 Posted by fudgy (2 posts) - - Show Bio

aquaman

#18 Edited by Arkhamc1tizen (2146 posts) - - Show Bio

@fudgy said:

aquaman

I might have gone with this but i had to go with Bruce

#19 Posted by TheManInTheShoe (3878 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, he's the only one with leader experience. Superman? To me he's just a glorified boy scout.

#20 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2146 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman, he's the only one with leader experience. Superman? To me he's just a glorified boy scout.

this.

#21 Posted by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio

Who is at the center of 95% of Justice League images: Superman.

#22 Posted by Jnr6Lil (7760 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain13: Except the Bruce Timm cartoon dealt with Supeman, Batman, Wonder Woman, John Stewart, Wally West, Hawkgirl, & Martian Manhunter

#23 Posted by xxxddd (3593 posts) - - Show Bio

Noone.

#24 Posted by PowerHerc (85153 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman.

He's smart, respected, altruistic, he makes good decisions, he will ask for other members' opinions when he needs to, he's not afraid to keep other members in check (even Batman) and he's universally respected.

#25 Edited by knightofthechronicle (710 posts) - - Show Bio

Superman FTW!

I mean, I love Batman, but I feel that Superman, since he doesn't have any other team to lead, is the obvious choice.

#26 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1289 posts) - - Show Bio

I voted for Batman because he has the most experience in leadership roles.

#27 Posted by Bogey (952 posts) - - Show Bio

Give it to Cyborg so he can have more panel time.

#28 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13604 posts) - - Show Bio

First we have to acknowledge that there are multiple interpretations of every character. And I have to acknowledge that I look at the Justice League as a five man band (plus cameos).

Five-Man Band

The Five-Man Band is a group of characters whose members fall into archetypes which all complement one another. They are a very specific team with skills that contribute to the group in a unique way.The group traditionally includes:

  • The Leader(lead singer) The leader of the group. Can be a mastermind, charismatic, levelheaded, headstrong, or some combination of the four. Often also The Hero.
  • The Lancer(lead guitar) The second-in-command, usually a contrast to The Leader. If the Leader is clean-cut and/or uptight, the Lancer is a grizzled Anti-Hero or Deadpan Snarker; if the Leader is driven and somewhat amoral, the Lancer is more relaxed and level-headed.
  • The Smart Guy(keyboardist) The physically weak, but intelligent or clever member. Often nerdy and awkward played for comic relief. Sometimes unconventionally young (early- to mid-teens). Sometimes a Trickster and a buddy of the Big Guy. May be the one with all the "street" connections.
  • The Big Guy(drummer) The strongman of the team. May be dumb. Or mute.
  • The Chick(vocal effects, tambourine) A peacekeeping role to balance out the other members' aggression, bringing them to a nice or at least manageable medium. The Chick is often considered the heart of the group. This role is played by a woman or girl. Someone female. Otherwise, it is not a Five-Man Band.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand

Pre-Flashpoint:

Superman is the leader, Batman is the lancer, and Wonder Woman is the chick. John Stewart and Wally West alternated between which character was the big guy and which one was the smart guy depending on the writer and the story. It was a simple dynamic that was reinforced by the Bruce Timm cartoon. Sometimes other members would play these roles, but usually the other characters were riffs on these types or were background characters.

---------------------------------------------

Post-Flashpoint

Here is what you need to understand: DC loved Hal and throught his movie would be a success. In addition, Superman was not selling like he should have been and the studios needed a version of the team that could be adapted to film (this includes increasing diversity to compete with Marvel and to quiet the whitewashing accusations). Finally, Batman had (and still has) the biggest franchise of any superhero by far.

In response, we got the New 52 origin story in which Batman, the highest selling character, is put at the center of the story. Green Lantern, the second highest selling character, is the first superhero Batman meets. And Superman, the third highest selling character, becomes more like his badass golden age version and less like his famous nice guy persona. This radically changes the five man band dynamic.

Batman becomes the Leader.

Green Lantern becomes the Lancer.

Cyborg becomes the (tragic) Smart Guy.

Superman becomes the (quiet) Big Guy.

Wonder Woman retains her role as the chick.

Flash and Aquaman don't fit, so they either contribute jokes or nothing.

See what I mean here:

I don't hate this change-up, but it has not been embraced. The reasons that the New 52 versions still has not been embraced by fans include: (1) People like Superman being the hope Guy and the leader because this is his most well known version (which is soon to be cemented by Man of Steel), (2) The origin is not that well written and has too many characters (a lot could be cut from the story, including Aquaman and Flash, and nothing would change; further, the story had no theme), (3) Many characters were poorly written in their new roles. Batman couldn't lead the team as hard as he tried. Green Lantern was more of an annoying lancer than a funny one. Wonder Woman and Cyborg were VERY one dimensional. Superman was even more one dimensional, had no great dialogue, and was suddenly more like Wolverine than his most well known interpretation.

---------------------------------------------

Post-Trinity War

I believe that Zack Snyder and Bruce Timm are secretly working on the Justice League movie (based on internet rumors). I believe that Geoff Johns is going to change the roster of the New 52 Justice League to remove Cyborg and add John Stewart to reflect the Justice League film roster (based on the Triptych for Trinity War and speculation).

Covers for Justice League of America, Justice League Dark, and Justice League, respectively.

If this is true, then the next five man band we see may be:

Superman as Leader

Batman as Lancer

Wonder Woman as Chick

John Stewart as Big Guy

Barry Allen as the Smart Guy

---------------------------------------------

Who I Think Should Lead: Superman. He's an inspiration and he's the first superhero. Batman would be my second choice, but I prefer him as an adviser. It fits his character better and DC already gives him enough love. We don't need another team or book to revolve around Batman.

What are your thoughts on my analysis?

its always a joy to see the thought you put into your posts

#29 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

I like the pre-52 leadership of the League - where there's sort of a team equality, but the Trinity are generally held as the collective leadership.

Can everyone stop saying Batman is a loner? That hasn't been true in the last 70 years.
BB

He was always portrayed as somewhat of a loner in Morrison's JLA. Granted, he wasn't a loner in the sense of 'he doesn't team with others' but more like he rarely joined their missions and focused more on Gotham.

#30 Posted by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio
#31 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

Without Batman as leader, he wouldn't really have a spot in the team

team sidekick or 'special needs' member

#32 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (34297 posts) - - Show Bio

I wish DC actually had good team books that were nothing to do with the Justice League

#33 Posted by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio

@nerx said:

@ccraft said:

Without Batman as leader, he wouldn't really have a spot in the team

team sidekick or 'special needs' member

Haha!

#34 Posted by Nerx (15087 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Edited by spinningbirdcake (1430 posts) - - Show Bio

Tactically-Batman

In terms of setting an example/ideals-Superman

I've always though of the JL as having two leaders. Much how the Avengers have Captain America as an upfront leader and Stark/Banner/Pym as the brains behind a lot of their plans. For what it's worth I voted for Superman.

#36 Posted by Captain13 (3511 posts) - - Show Bio

@ccraft said:

Without Batman as leader, he wouldn't really have a spot in the team

Tech specialist, computer hacker, financier, detective, tactical strategist...

#37 Posted by RustyRoy (13540 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman inspires a lot of people and he is the best leader for the team.

#38 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

These four are the best candidates.

Aquaman could be on this level but his mind is split between ruling Atlantis and protecting Earth. Plus he has a temper.

Out of these four, Superman is the inspiration, Batman is the tactical genius, Wonder Woman has the heart, and Green Lantern has the command presence. I choose Superman with the others acting as lieutenants.

#39 Posted by nightwingnerd (325 posts) - - Show Bio
#40 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2146 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by thejman251 (435 posts) - - Show Bio

- Anyone but Batman.

- Additionally, i think that Batman serves no purpose in the league anyway.

#42 Posted by Arkhamc1tizen (2146 posts) - - Show Bio

Supes is wining

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