@xybernauts said:
@SUNMAN: Yes, the Galactic Guardians did look like a great cartoon, but it so old and Cyborg's stint was so brief that I doubt many people even remembered him and his origin until recently. But that's besides the point, I was talking specifically about the Teen Titan's cartoon. As you pointed out the Teen Titan's should have introduced his father, maybe created an episode revolving around Cyborg's father Silas Stone, and/or portrayed a flashback of Cyborg's origin. Yes he had a role in the Teen Titan's cartoon, but typically his portrayal was lighthearted and goofy. This was true for all the Titans, but most of the other Titan's portrayals were balanced out by these back stories as well as other conflicts. Cyborg had conflicts too, but they weren't portrayed well. One example was when he tried to upgrade himself with a more powerful chip, but the chip started taking his humanity away. While that was a semi-interesting story the conflict was easily resolved by simply removing the chip. So while it could have gone somewhere in terms of developing his characters beyond the goofiness, it went no were because of the overly simple resolution. Yes Cyborg beat Blood in the end, but that's not the point. The point was how elegently Blood used Cyborg's powers. It looked like Blood was schooling Cyborg on how to use his own powers.
It's funny because while I was looking for a clip of the scene showing the fight between Cyborg and Brother Blood I found this video that perfectly illustrates what I'm talking about.
And this video also does the same. It sums up my point. This is what makes Cyborg such a disliked character. The Teen Titan's show basically made Cyborg look second rate, as the first video points out. Yes you point out Blood was kicking Cyborg's ass even before he got the cybernetic upgrade, and that's what people think of when they think of Cyborg. Unless you read the comics (and I don't), he's a poor character. With other arch-enemies and heroes, the hero is dominate and the villain merely exploits the heroes compassion. With the rivalry between Cyborg and Blood, Blood clearly dominates Cyborg. Blood has these sweet moves that show his skill and Cyborg is just a guy with cybernetic upgrades. For any decent hero the powers can't make the hero, the hero must make the powers, meaning the hero is what makes the powers special, not the other way around.
As for Young Justice, it's one of the better if not the best DC Animated shows that has ever come out. Amongst other things it does a great job of not coming across as racist. Forget the beautiful animation and the fantastic story arc. One good example is how the leader of each show is chosen. In Titan's there was a decision to be made in regards to who would lead the team. Either Cyborg or Robin. The truth is on that show I have never have seen anything that suggests that Cyborg has any real leadership skills so basically he comes across as a wanna be leader, especially when faced with Robin's intellect and expertise. Basically, there was no balance between the two characters. It was not a scenario where each had something to contribute and Robin simply won out. Instead Robin held all the cards and Cyborg fell flat on his face. In contrast, in the decisions in regards to who would lead the team in Young Justice, there was a distinct balance that complimented both heroes. Robin had great potential to be a leader, but his advanced style and expectations made it hard for the other teammates to keep up with him. Aqualad may not have been on the level of Robin, but he understood what each team member was capable of and understood how to use those abilities and how to communicate his expectations. Each character had flaws and each had something to contribute. This is a portrayal that compliments both heroes. And this is just one example. All throughout the show Aqualad is shown as being intelligent, so much so he has infiltrated The Light as a long term double agent and they don't even realize it. This shows that even without his powers he has some real skills meaning he makes his powers, his powers don't make him. And as a result he seems to be more well liked overall by fans, correct me if I'm wrong.
But I do agree, Gargoyles was a great cartoon. Not better then Young Justice, but about the same.
I respectfully disagree. Teen Titans Go could have introduced Cybrog's father if there was a plot behind it, but prior to the new 52 not much was ever done with Cyborg's father so the writers would just be coming up with stuff from scratch. Cyborg's origin wouldn't really constitue a good episode, instead the show just focused on the most prevalent themes about Cyborg's character. Like robin he didn't have or need a family or backstory issue. Raven and StarFire's origins and families are tied to the Titans history. Beast Boy they just used to bring in Doom Patrol and some more villains.
The show was light hearted and goofy. It's a show that didn't take itself too seriously. It was a little hooky jumping between comedy and action with a little drama. It was a multilayered show but a simplistic one at the same time. I really don't see how your saying Cyborg's portrayal wasn't balanced. He was written with funny moments and given cool fighting moments just like the rest. His serious moments were just as serious as the other characters. I really feel your being over analytical. Your acting like the other Titans got moments throughout the show that had substantially more depth. They didn't. Most episodes had clear messages and points, and were fairly lighthearted even the darker episodes. As for your backstory complaint, none of the characters got thorough backstories and they didn't need it. The show presented the characters in a way that they are easily identifiable. Robin didn't have a backstory. Beast Boy had 2 episodes where we meet his old team, wasn't really in origin or go that in depth just that he was treated like a kid. StarFire we know she is an alien, we meet her sister, travel to her home planet, and in a direct to dvd episode we see she was captured by slavers. Cyborg like robin no backstory, but his character doesn't particularly need it. Raven we know she has magic powers, and her father is some supreme demonic overlord that wants to enslave earth. Blood was beating Cyborg with his own abilities more than he was with Cyborg's tech. And this happened with most of the one on one fights. Not sure why you are harping on this with Cyborg. Slade always looked better than Robin one on one. Beat Boy got owned by that other werewolf beast villain till he got his cliche power up moment. All was lost against Trigon. Than Raven suddenly goes Super Saiyain and blasts him.
The point is its a 20 odd minute show, not an hour long one. Each Titan was given relatively similar moments. They all had different themes, archetypes and characterizations, but they were all given equal moments of comedy/goofiness, action and seriousness/angst. The show didn't make Cyborg look second rate. He was fighting a villain the fact he was outmatched just adds to the drama. Like Superman getting beat down by Doomsday or Bane breaking Batman's back.
I really don't get your gripes about Teen Titans Go Cyborg at all. Yeah he's a cyborg, but he has other endearing character traits. How entertaining would it have been if Cyborg just beat blood down. I mean sometimes villains get the upper hand it adds to the drama. Are the ninja turtles suddenly lame because the Shredder owns them?
As for Young Justice, I like what they're trying to do, but the execution has been lacking. It's trying to juggle too many things and it doesn't work and there is a substantial lack of character development. Cartoons tend to be more diverse in general because they are catering to a wider audience than the comics. In regards to racism, have you encountered a superhero cartoon in the last 15 years you felt was racist?
In regards to leadership, Robins always been the leader. Cyborg was just leading Titans East after Robin he is the most qualified he is fairly competent and a tech wiz. Still he was never challenging robin for leadership, but once again I think your taking this aspect too seriously given the type of show this was.
Back to Young Justice, its got good animation, but wants to cram way too much in. Aqualad is under developed and often neglected outside of 4 episodes. The way the go about deciding the leadership is contrived.
The shows okay at best, but people really overate it. Gargoyles flowed organically. Young Justice is just trying to cram too much in and takes itself too seriously. Avengers: EMH, was a far superior show even with its budget animation. Both Avengers and Young Justice are team shows and both engage in arc style narratives (to varying degrees); the team aspect is an important issue since it's a tricky thing to balance so many characters, however in development and in action sequences, Avengers wisely doesn't always use the whole team all of the time (even when they are all on good terms with one another), but even when it does, each character shines, and when it comes to full-on team brawls, the action choreography is more skillfully storyboarded and cut together on Avengers than on Young Justice .
YJ deals with covert stealth missions and international conflicts, conspiracies etc., which sounds great when you hear about it, but the show not as tactful with the execution. Sometimes you get the sense the show forgets its a cartoon and that is a problem. People think this cartoon is more meta than other cartoon shows, but it really isn't it just tries to cram more things in and it suffers because of it. If the show was an hour long each episode than maybe the show could truly accomplish what its trying to do. Since the second episode, season 2 has been very predictable. But overall its a superhero show with good animation and some action so it will be popular especially in this climate. I'd take Bruce Timm's Justice League's Batman, Superman or Justice league over this any day. It's straight forward and to the point and says more with less.
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