STOP BAGGING ON CYBORG

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#1 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes Cyborg will always be at his best amongst the ranks of the Teen Titans but i think he makes a good member of the JLA. Maybe if so many people stopped bitching they could enjoy him. He isn't my favourite member on this particular version of the JLA but i don't think he's at his full potential yet.

Anyway this is just me standing up for Victor Stone!

#2 Posted by Vance Astro (91061 posts) - - Show Bio

Why you mad though?

Moderator
#3 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah the Cyborg hate is getting old, and has drifted to some degree into irrationality or at least blind anger

#4 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

I think people are just racist. I've seen tons of racist remarks over the internet about Cyborg's inclusion. Like seriously, deal with it people.

Cyborg has been added to Super Friends since the 80s. He has quit Teen Titans and joined JL in comics for quite a while now already and when characters like Hawkgirl, Black Canary has been added as the founding members, nobody made noise. I wonder why.

#5 Posted by Icarusflies (12402 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

I think people are just racist. I've seen tons of racist remarks over the internet about Cyborg's inclusion. Like seriously, deal with it people.

Cyborg has been added to Super Friends since the 80s. He has quit Teen Titans and joined JL in comics for quite a while now already and when characters like Hawkgirl, Black Canary has been added as the founding members, nobody made noise. I wonder why.

Because no one actually bothered reading JLA until now. :P

With the influx of new readers, people are only going to be familiar with some incarnation of the core group.

And due to the Teen Titans TV show, most of these readers grew up with Cyborg as a Titan.

It doesn't help that Cyborg has largely been used as a deus ex machina device in the new JL series, making him somewhat less likable as a character. Once it gets beyond the 'BIG MAJOR VILLAIN IS DESTROYING ANYTHING OMG WHAT WILL THE JL DO?!' phase in the series I think Cyborg will get more love.

Moderator
#6 Posted by 202122 (1145 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro said:

Why you mad though?

Because i like Cyborg as both as a Titan and now as a JLA member even if his main purpose at the moment seems to be teleporting

#7 Posted by Lvenger (17855 posts) - - Show Bio

Being a big fan of Wolfman and Perez' run on the Teen Titans I see Cyborg as more of a Titan than a Leaguer. I wouldn't mind seeing Cyborg as a member of the Justice League 5 years on but not a founding member. Besides it's played havoc with whether Cyborg was a member of the TT as apparently he was yet the League's roster is not supposed to have changed in the 5 years after they came about with the exception of Martian Manhunter whose tenure was a short one anyway.

#8 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Racists aside, a lot of people dislike the change for two reasons: he's now a founding member of the JLA and he replaced MM.

If it was an animated series or non-canon, no problem but people will always think of Cyborg with the NTT and Martian Manhunter as a founding member of the JLA. If Cyborg joined the JLA later it would be easier to accept but it just felt contrived, like they chose him only to have a "token" black character as a founding member. This plus the fact that all the previous JLA and Wolfman-Perez Titans stories are being pretty much wiped from continuity can upset a lot of people, even Cyborg fans.

Hawkgirl was a founding member in the DCAU because a lot of people outside of comics (and even some comics fans) thought that Aquaman was a joke and they used the opportunity to replace him by another female character. They could have done anything they wanted because it was an animated series and it wasn't the only change anyway.

As for Black Canary, not everyone was pleased with the decision and despite those who liked it, that was retconned later and WW was again a founding member. After that, it was pretty confusing and no one really knew if Black Canary was a founding member or not.

In the end, we can't blame some people for not liking this change and I think that DC should have handled this relaunch better.

#9 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Icarusflies: I guess it'll eventually grow on people.

@hectorsquall: You do know that tokenism is a form of racism right? He was included because of his character and skill set. If DC wanted to have a token black character it could easily be Vixen or Black Lightning. So, no he wasn't chosen because he is a token black character and it also implies that DC is racist if they practice tokenism.

Secondly, I don't see how people are hating Dick Grayson's return to Nightwing since it practically erased his history of being Batman. Yes, theres some hating, but not as much as this. Also, saying things like people hate Cyborg's inclusion to JLA because it wiped out the continuity of previous writing is just an excuse. Birds of Prey, Stormwatch, Blue Beetle, Earth 2, Worlds' finest and tons of other books are also reboot, yet these titles in particular have been receiving overwhelming amount of love ever since people started reading the first issue. Also, theres a difference between hating Cyborg's inclusion and hating Cyborg.

Hawkgirl was a founding member in the comics in one of the incarnation. That didn't stop her from being hated. Neither did she received the amount of discriminatory comments that people are showering to Cyborg.

It wasn't so much of how we can't blame people for not liking this change. Its the fact that should it have been someone else like Green Arrow, responses might be alot different than it is today. So saying that because he replaced MM is also an excuse. I agree that he is an integral part of JLA, but he has not been able to contribute much to the stories. So much so he was "kicked off" JLA in JLU and he wasn't really given much of a job except being a Deus ex machina which @Icarusflies: mentioned. So replacing a deus ex, with another deus ex seems fair. Another thing about MM is that he is way too overpowered, he is practically Superman with more powers and plus the fact that he isn't relatable at all and can't hold his own series, I think its fair that DC replaced him.

The only time I ever seen MM being written well is in New Frontier, as an origin story. Other than that as the story progress, theres really nothing much you do with him, that others can't.

#10 Posted by AweSam (7360 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

I think people are just racist. I've seen tons of racist remarks over the internet about Cyborg's inclusion. Like seriously, deal with it people.

Cyborg has been added to Super Friends since the 80s. He has quit Teen Titans and joined JL in comics for quite a while now already and when characters like Hawkgirl, Black Canary has been added as the founding members, nobody made noise. I wonder why.

Well, yeah. Have you seen the color of his skin? It's silver. I'll never accept it.

#11 Posted by Raiiyn (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@AweSam said:

@sethysquare said:

I think people are just racist. I've seen tons of racist remarks over the internet about Cyborg's inclusion. Like seriously, deal with it people.

Cyborg has been added to Super Friends since the 80s. He has quit Teen Titans and joined JL in comics for quite a while now already and when characters like Hawkgirl, Black Canary has been added as the founding members, nobody made noise. I wonder why.

Well, yeah. Have you seen the color of his skin? It's silver. I'll never accept it.

LOL

In regards to Cyborg being a founding member... I just find his inclusion ill-written. I mean he doesn't have a solo title so his origin is in the JL title and then the fact that he is also a teen... all the other members are much older. It just feels contrived.

I like Cyborg don't me wrong, just not as a founder.

#12 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

I want everyone to understand something...

CYBORG IS NOT TO BLAME FOR CONTINUITY ISSUES. IT'S A NEW UNIVERSE. GET OVER IT.

Clearly the Wolfman/Perez run meant a lot to a lot of people, but get over it. Buy the TPB, and quit whining after 10 months. Cyborg being on the JL isn't the only thing that kept that series from being in continuity.

These four WERE a team while Cyborg was on the JLA. Spidey and Wolverine can be on two teams, so can Cyborg.

Titan
Titan With No Memories
Titan While On Justice League. Now he's a twenty-three year old man and the JL is all in their twenties.
Titan
Beast Boy is Red and Just Starting to be a Hero. Why is no one giving him $H!*?

Raven doesn't exist, and it's not Cyborg's fault. GET OVER IT. REALITY WARPING IS NOT PART OF HIS POWER SET.

Possible design for New 52 Raven. She doesn't exist yet.

WALLY WEST DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE DC DE-AGED BARRY AND DIDN'T WANT TWO FLASHES WITH THE SAME AGE. THE ALSO DID NOT WANT TO DE-AGE WALLY BECAUSE WHAT MAKES HIM INTERESTING IS THAT HE'S GROWN INTO THE ROLE.

DONNA TROY DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE WONDER WOMAN WAS ALSO DE-AGED.

There's a lot of reasons that the Wolfman/Perez stories are out of continuity. And thinking logically, just because Cyborg is on the JLA, doesn't mean that that is the reason that those stories didn't happen. He could have been on two teams at the same time. THE MAIN REASON THAT THOSE STORIES DIDN'T HAPPEN IS BECAUSE WALLY WEST AND DONNA TROY DON'T EXIST BECAUSE DC WANTED TO DE-AGE THEIR CHARACTERS. STOP GIVING CYBORG $&!# ABOUT IT, OKAY?

Art by Hoa Phong

This is a new universe, okay? But you can still buy and enjoy your old stories.

#13 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

#14 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn said:

In regards to Cyborg being a founding member... I just find his inclusion ill-written. I mean he doesn't have a solo title so his origin is in the JL title and then the fact that he is also a teen... all the other members are much older. It just feels contrived.

I like Cyborg don't me wrong, just not as a founder.

Actually now that the stories are set 5 years later, Cyborg is 23. And all the members of the JLA are in their twenties too, so they're part of the same generation.

The Justice League origin was not well-written. Blame Johns, not Cyborg. He'll get a solo title eventually.

@sethysquare said:

@hectorsquall: You do know that tokenism is a form of racism right? He was included because of his character and skill set. If DC wanted to have a token black character it could easily be Vixen or Black Lightning. So, no he wasn't chosen because he is a token black character and it also implies that DC is racist if they practice tokenism.

Secondly, I don't see how people are hating Dick Grayson's return to Nightwing since it practically erased his history of being Batman. Yes, theres some hating, but not as much as this. Also, saying things like people hate Cyborg's inclusion to JLA because it wiped out the continuity of previous writing is just an excuse. Birds of Prey, Stormwatch, Blue Beetle, Earth 2, Worlds' finest and tons of other books are also reboot, yet these titles in particular have been receiving overwhelming amount of love ever since people started reading the first issue. Also, theres a difference between hating Cyborg's inclusion and hating Cyborg.

Hawkgirl was a founding member in the comics in one of the incarnation. That didn't stop her from being hated. Neither did she received the amount of discriminatory comments that people are showering to Cyborg.

It wasn't so much of how we can't blame people for not liking this change. Its the fact that should it have been someone else like Green Arrow, responses might be alot different than it is today. So saying that because he replaced MM is also an excuse. I agree that he is an integral part of JLA, but he has not been able to contribute much to the stories. So much so he was "kicked off" JLA in JLU and he wasn't really given much of a job except being a Deus ex machina which @Icarusflies: mentioned. So replacing a deus ex, with another deus ex seems fair. Another thing about MM is that he is way too overpowered, he is practically Superman with more powers and plus the fact that he isn't relatable at all and can't hold his own series, I think its fair that DC replaced him.

The only time I ever seen MM being written well is in New Frontier, as an origin story. Other than that as the story progress, theres really nothing much you do with him, that others can't.

QFT

His teleportation is not only useful to the team but also to the writer. Before, if there was an emergency, why didn't Flash or Superman rush off before the rest of the team? If the league had teleportation pads, why didn't they use them in solo adventures or share them with the world? Cyborg clears up all that messiness. Plus he can connect to any computer in the world. He's a walking Super library. And he has tools the others don't have like sonic weapons, plasma cannons, and connection to Star Labs which gives him access to vast amount of Alien Tech.

#15 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: I do agree. I think Cyborg would make a much more compelling justice league member because there are more stuff to write about him.

#16 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@hectorsquall: You do know that tokenism is a form of racism right? He was included because of his character and skill set. If DC wanted to have a token black character it could easily be Vixen or Black Lightning. So, no he wasn't chosen because he is a token black character and it also implies that DC is racist if they practice tokenism.

Tokenism was definitely part of it, I like Johns as a writer and I don't think he's necessarily racist but a part of Cyborgs involvement in the league was definitely because in this day and age only history obsessed comic fans and racist want the world's greatest Super Team to be all white in complexion (one green dude aside) and mind set. I'm black and I don't feel that Dc is racist for using Cyborg as a token minority I actually feel somewhat glad that they felt someone other than white people deserved to be a league founder. However Tokenism wasn't his only reason for inclusion his connection to technology in a world where technology continuously gains power is why he edged out more long standing characters like Black Lightning

Secondly, I don't see how people are hating Dick Grayson's return to Nightwing since it practically erased his history of being Batman. Yes, theres some hating, but not as much as this. Also, saying things like people hate Cyborg's inclusion to JLA because it wiped out the continuity of previous writing is just an excuse. Birds of Prey, Stormwatch, Blue Beetle, Earth 2, Worlds' finest and tons of other books are also reboot, yet these titles in particular have been receiving overwhelming amount of love ever since people started reading the first issue. Also, theres a difference between hating Cyborg's inclusion and hating Cyborg.

All of these things received variant degrees of hate, some more than others and some less, Nightwing for example didn't get that much hate because his time as Batman has been confirmed to have happened and has been addressed in story both before and after the reboot. Cyborg garnered more hate because he was on a larger stage than everyone else on DC's top title, the character gets more hate because Comic fans as a general rule seem to not understand where to level there dislike much like storm is now a hated character almost solely because her fans are insufferable

Hawkgirl was a founding member in the comics in one of the incarnation. That didn't stop her from being hated. Neither did she received the amount of discriminatory comments that people are showering to Cyborg.

Before my time, but I take it that that was re conned. That being said, race is definitely a contributing reason that Cyborg gets more hate than many characters would I agree with you about that. There are many people who aren't traditionally racist but are covertly racist and due to hundreds of years of conditioning that is in no way there own fault are pre programmed to hold more against some races than others, the most not racist man in the world would probably complain more about Cyborg than Black Canary without even fully realizing why, like Avenue Q said were all a little racist

It wasn't so much of how we can't blame people for not liking this change. Its the fact that should it have been someone else like Green Arrow, responses might be alot different than it is today. So saying that because he replaced MM is also an excuse. I agree that he is an integral part of JLA, but he has not been able to contribute much to the stories. So much so he was "kicked off" JLA in JLU and he wasn't really given much of a job except being a Deus ex machina which @Icarusflies: mentioned. So replacing a deus ex, with another deus ex seems fair. Another thing about MM is that he is way too overpowered, he is practically Superman with more powers and plus the fact that he isn't relatable at all and can't hold his own series, I think its fair that DC replaced him.

The only time I ever seen MM being written well is in New Frontier, as an origin story. Other than that as the story progress, theres really nothing much you do with him, that others can't.

No MM really did have allot of fans and even more people who respected or were just used to him, he had allot of heart warming moments and stories with the JL so people complaining about his absence do in general genuinely miss him and it's not an excuse while several things you said about MM are true that doesn't stop him from having fans who actually care. But yeah Green Arrow would have gotten much less hate for race and other reasons chiefly among those other reasons is being the Leagues traditional 8th wheel.

Finally I support Cyborgs spot on the League

#17 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: I don't think that anyone really blames Cyborg for these continuity issues, people are just a little upset because instead of allowing Vic to grow as a character and earning his place as a true JLA member, he was just used as a deus ex machina device in the new JL series and because of the way it was written by Johns, his inclusion in the team just feels contrived.

Still, you made some really good points and I pretty much agree with you. Let's just hope that they will use this opportunity to do the character justice in future stories because a Cyborg series could be really great if done right.

PS: Great pics btw :p

#18 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't hate Cyborg. He just should've stayed a Titan. If he was a Titan, and then worked his way to the JLA, I'd support his spot. Plus, the fact that he's black has nothing to do with my reasoning. If it was Black Lightning, Steel, or Vixen, I wouldn't mind their status as a founding member because they're experienced and old enough. Isn't Cyborg in high school? The JLA should be adults only. Keep kids on the Titans or Young Justice.

#19 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

Tokenism was definitely part of it, I like Johns as a writer and I don't think he's necessarily racist but a part of Cyborgs involvement in the league was definitely because in this day and age only history obsessed comic fans and racist want the world's greatest Super Team to be all white in complexion (one green dude aside) and mind set. I'm black and I don't feel that Dc is racist for using Cyborg as a token minority I actually feel somewhat glad that they felt someone other than white people deserved to be a league founder. However Tokenism wasn't his only reason for inclusion his connection to technology in a world where technology continuously gains power is why he edged out more long standing characters like Black Lightning

You're not using the word tokenism properly and it hurts this point even though you're right. Tokenism is when you're chosen for your race AND you're useless or don't contribute. Cyborg only meets one of those requirements (being chosen for race). He's far from useless on the team.

To all the people who have a problem with him for being put on the team for racial reasons, get over it.

Do you want DC to sound like this:

DC: Hey guys. We've had this race problem for 76+ years. Let's not do anything to fix that.

I don't. And DC doesn't want to be that way either. I applaud them for that.

@BlackArmor said:

No MM really did have allot of fans and even more people who respected or were just used to him, he had allot of heart warming moments and stories with the JL so people complaining about his absence do in general genuinely miss him and it's not an excuse while several things you said about MM are true that doesn't stop him from having fans who actually care. But yeah Green Arrow would have gotten much less hate for race and other reasons chiefly among those other reasons is being the Leagues traditional 8th wheel.

Finally I support Cyborgs spot on the League

Geoff Johns has written Martian Manhunter in the past (Brightest Day), and he didn't believe that Martian Manhunter could hold a solo title. History proves that he's right. While he did have heart-warming moments, I wouldn't call MM popular. Some people just like MM BECAUSE he got replaced. Out of all the JL members his forum even has the least threads. I don't find him compelling or interesting as a solo character and I find him redundant as a team member on the JLA both in terms of his powers and his role on the team.

At the end of the day, all founding 7 should be able to hold solos because they're DC's biggest and best. MM can't do that. DC is building Cyborg up to that.

And I support CY too!

#20 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, wait, wait...

Beast Boy is red now?

#21 Edited by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: i dont like cyborg as a founding member because i think its just too soon for his character to take such a huge leap from little league to the big boys. and because he took mm place. you cant do that just cant.

as for your black token theory, i wouldve much rather preffered black lightning as a founding member. he is more experienced, has led a team of his own and props to anybody that can control a class nowadays. you know what:

BAM!

#22 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@hectorsquall said:

@Captain13: I don't think that anyone really blames Cyborg for these continuity issues, people are just a little upset because instead of allowing Vic to grow as a character and earning his place as a true JLA member, he was just used as a deus ex machina device in the new JL series and because of the way it was written by Johns, his inclusion in the team just feels contrived.

Still, you made some really good points and I pretty much agree with you. Let's just hope that they will use this opportunity to do the character justice in future stories because a Cyborg series could be really great if done right.

PS: Great pics btw :p

Thanks!

I agree with you too, btw.

But I don't get the deus ex thing. Every other member of the JL has deus ex/PIS moments. EX: A deus ex moment for Batman would be him taking out the white martians. But I guess that the difference is that Cyborg's moment was not well written and people are looking for reasons to hate him.

JL #1-8 are all mediocre or bad, but issue 9 gives me hope for the rest of the series. And I can't wait for a Cyborg solo!

#23 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

Isn't Cyborg in high school? The JLA should be adults only. Keep kids on the Titans or Young Justice.

No. He was a senior in high school 5 years ago. He's about 23 years old now, and the JL is all in their twenties. So it works for me.

I don't have strong ties to the teen titans stories, so I don't need to see him grow up and graduate. But I see what you're saying.

I think that with more time and better stories people will get used to it the same way that I got used to Hal even though I'm not fond of him.

#24 Posted by capfan80 (348 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm not a real fan of robot man characters in general, but that is just me. As for race, I don't blame comic companies for trying to introduce diversity. It isn't just about readership, they also have to look to the future on television and movies and it would definitely help in those fields to have more diverse makeups.

Having said that the problem will always be that the iconic older characters come from a time when almost all heroes in comics were white. I also find that I personally don't like most of the black characters that have been pushed because I just don't like them, not because they are black. Storm is okay and Black Panther is awesome but I have never been a fan of Cyborg and I think Luke Cage sucks. I will cut Cyborg some slack but Cage just plain sucks. No costume. No cool name (I understand Power Man is something they want to get away from), no cool look (His old costume sucked and now he just looks like someone I might run into anywhere), and his powers are lame (kinda strong, kinda hard to hurt)

In short give the fans something to love and it won't matter what color their skin is.

#25 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Wait, wait, wait...

Beast Boy is red now?

LOL yeah. He's starring in the new Ravagers book.

Ravagers 1

,

@KainScion said:

@sethysquare: i dont like cyborg as a founding member because i think its just too soon for his character to take such a huge leap from little league to the big boys. and because he took mm place. you cant do that just cant.

as for your black token theory, i wouldve much rather preffered black lightning as a founding member. he is more experienced, has led a team of his own and props to anybody that can control a class nowadays. you know what:

He was a mentor on the TT, not a member pre-reboot. Plus he was a JLA member (in the main DCU and several other realities). And MM doesn't sell. But I do like Black Lightning!

#26 Edited by htb106 (1641 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123: Yep, Continuity, who needs it?

I think this is the most confusing of the former titans though because Roy Harper mentioned him to Starfire.

Unless Roy can now change reality...

o______O

#27 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: ... That looks really, really bland.

#28 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Captain13: ... That looks really, really bland.

I agree.

@htb106 said:

@InnerVenom123: Yep, Continuity, who needs it?

I think this is the most confusing of the former titans though because Roy Harper mentioned him to Starfire.

Unless Roy can now change reality...

o______O

Lol. Roy Harper is actually hobo Jesus. This is clearly the biggest retcon of all.

Roy hold the keys to space, time, and continuity 0_0 He's the male Jean Grey.
#29 Posted by hectorsquall (1137 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

But I don't get the deus ex thing. Every other member of the JL has deus ex/PIS moments. EX: A deus ex moment for Batman would be him taking out the white martians. But I guess that the difference is that Cyborg's moment was not well written and people are looking for reasons to hate him.

JL #1-8 are all mediocre or bad, but issue 9 gives me hope for the rest of the series. And I can't wait for a Cyborg solo!

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it. I really like Cyborg but it's clear that this Justice League origin should have been better written. Now that we're past that, it does look promising and I just hope that they won't screw this up.

#30 Edited by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion: I dont see a difference. Black Lightning led the outsiders and Cyborg led the team of "new new" teen titans with cassie and gang.

Cyborg was in Justice League pre flashpoint, so was Black Lightning.

The only difference is Black Lightning joined Justice League a few years earlier than Cyborg, while Cyborg joined Superfriends and Black Lightning didn't.

I guess the Cyborg that is in the little league is standing side by side to Wonder Woman,

#31 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

@Captain13: ... That looks really, really bland.

I agree.

@htb106 said:

@InnerVenom123: Yep, Continuity, who needs it?

I think this is the most confusing of the former titans though because Roy Harper mentioned him to Starfire.

Unless Roy can now change reality...

o______O

Lol. Roy Harper is actually hobo Jesus. This is clearly the biggest retcon of all.

Roy hold the keys to space, time, and continuity 0_0 He's the male Jean Grey.

Continuity is over rated. So long as Red Hood and the Outlaws continue writing kickass stories, I'm perfectly fine with it.

#32 Posted by KainScion (2973 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: the cartoon has nothing to do with the comics.

#33 Posted by Raiiyn (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

#34 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32085 posts) - - Show Bio
@BlackArmor said:

Yeah the Cyborg hate is getting old, and has drifted to some degree into irrationality or at least blind anger

Online
#35 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Raiiyn: @Raiiyn said:

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

No, he was getting scouted for a collge team 5 years ago. The youngest he could have been then is 16. I wen to the #1 rated Football High School in the Country (St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Fort Lauderdale), and some of my friends were getting offers from scouts at 18. So at minimum, Cyborg is 21 and at a maximum he's 23.

See the 5 years ago sign on the first panel of the first page of the Justice League origin story?

Since Superman was straight out of college 5 years ago in both Action Comics and Justice League, I'd peg him for 22. 5 years later, he's 27.

So Cyborg is about 23 and Supeman is about 27. That's not a big age difference.

I could easily see Wonder Woman leaving Paradise Island at 18 and being 23 also.

Flash and Green Lantern are also surely in their twenties.

Aquaman issue 8 places Aquaman in his 20s also.

#36 Posted by Raiiyn (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: Oh I don't blame him. Like I said, it was poorly written. A lot of things were poorly written in the new 52.

And yes, now he is older but in origins, he's still a kid.

@hectorsquall said:

@Captain13 said:

But I don't get the deus ex thing. Every other member of the JL has deus ex/PIS moments. EX: A deus ex moment for Batman would be him taking out the white martians. But I guess that the difference is that Cyborg's moment was not well written and people are looking for reasons to hate him.

JL #1-8 are all mediocre or bad, but issue 9 gives me hope for the rest of the series. And I can't wait for a Cyborg solo!

Yeah, that's pretty much how I feel about it. I really like Cyborg but it's clear that this Justice League origin should have been better written. Now that we're past that, it does look promising and I just hope that they won't screw this up.

I feel the exact same way.

#37 Posted by fodigg (6130 posts) - - Show Bio

I didn't realize that there were that many people bagging on him. Just the usual crowd of "zomg not in the original 7 why why why change is scary" people who will complain about anybody new in the league, and not really about Cyborg.

I think he's great. There's nobody better to add to the Justice League. He's a modern hero.

#38 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@InnerVenom123 said:

Wait, wait, wait...

Beast Boy is red now?

LOL. U SO FUNNEH.

Seriously though, anybody stopped and considered no one hates Cyborg? Maybe them liking him is why they don't want him in the JLA? No...?

#39 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32085 posts) - - Show Bio
@htb106 said:

@InnerVenom123: Yep, Continuity, who needs it?

I think this is the most confusing of the former titans though because Roy Harper mentioned him to Starfire.

Unless Roy can now change reality...

o______O

He's red because of whats going on in Animal man right now 
Online
#40 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by Raiiyn (3429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@Raiiyn: @Raiiyn said:

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

No, he was getting scouted for a collge team 5 years ago. The youngest he could have been then is 16. I wen to the #1 rated Football High School in the Country (St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Fort Lauderdale), and some of my friends were getting offers from scouts at 18. So at minimum, Cyborg is 21 and at a maximum he's 18.

See the 5 years ago sign on the first panel of the first page of the Justice League origin story?

Since Superman was straight out of college 5 years ago in both Action Comics and Justice League, I'd peg him for 22. 5 years later, he's 27.

So Cyborg is about 23 and Supeman is about 27. That's not a big age difference.

I could easily see Wonder Woman leaving Paradise Island at 18 and being 23 also.

Flash and Green Lantern are also surely in their twenties.

Aquaman issue 8 places Aquaman in his 20s also.

Well the difference in age loses merit once they are all in their 20s, I can give you that... but in the initial plot line... having a 16/17 yr old founding the JL with 22-26 year olds just seems odd to me.

#42 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

Wait, wait, wait...

Beast Boy is red now?

LOL. U SO FUNNEH.

Seriously though, anybody stopped and considered no one hates Cyborg? Maybe them liking him is why they don't want him in the JLA? No...?

I like him, and therefore I want to see him on a bigger name team than the Teen Titans. Hal Jordan fans and Barry Allen fans didn't care about retcons when their favorite heroes were retconned back into prominence. Why should I, a Cyborg fan, care that some retcons happened to make Cyborg one of DC's 7 biggest heroes? He's still Cyborg. His origin is more well defined. His personality is the same. And he has a great supporting cast of characters now (Silas, Sarah, Morrow, Ivo, etc.). This relaunch has been all aces for REAL Cyborg fans.

Booyah!

#43 Posted by Twentyfive (2741 posts) - - Show Bio

You guys expect him to be a teenager forever? He was older than Dick when they were both titans, and now Dick has moved on to become Nightwing. You think Cyborg is still a Teen? If nightwing was on the JLA, you guys would have NO problem with that. It is about darn time that he moved up in the DCU.

#44 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

I like him, and therefore I want to see him on a bigger name team than the Teen Titans. Hal Jordan fans and Barry Allen fans didn't care about retcons when their favorite heroes were retconned back into prominence. Why should I, a Cyborg fan, care that some retcons happened to make Cyborg one of DC's 7 biggest heroes? He's still Cyborg. His origin is more well defined. His personality is the same. And he has a great supporting cast of characters now (Silas, Sarah, Morrow, Ivo, etc.). This relaunch has been all aces for REAL Cyborg fans.

Liking someone and wanting them to have a bigger name is completely different.

I like Cyborg. Cyborg is a Titan. Thus I want him to be a Titan.

#45 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@Raiiyn: @Raiiyn said:

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

No, he was getting scouted for a collge team 5 years ago. The youngest he could have been then is 16. I wen to the #1 rated Football High School in the Country (St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Fort Lauderdale), and some of my friends were getting offers from scouts at 18. So at minimum, Cyborg is 21 and at a maximum he's 23.

See the 5 years ago sign on the first panel of the first page of the Justice League origin story?

Since Superman was straight out of college 5 years ago in both Action Comics and Justice League, I'd peg him for 22. 5 years later, he's 27.

So Cyborg is about 23 and Supeman is about 27. That's not a big age difference.

I could easily see Wonder Woman leaving Paradise Island at 18 and being 23 also.

Flash and Green Lantern are also surely in their twenties.

Aquaman issue 8 places Aquaman in his 20s also.

But we do not know how old Superman is when he first got to metropolis. Im just using 20 as a gauge. In Earth one, he was fresh outta high school, didnt even go to college. As far as I know, I don't recall Clark ever going to college after high school. I could be wrong, but I doubt he went to college.

#46 Edited by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@KainScion: Even in the comics Black Lightning only joined a few years earlier. Hawkgirl was never an original member as well, until JL TAS and JLU. After which people felt much better when she was in the comics. Apparently, it doesnt work the same for Cyborg,.

@ReVamp: But he hasn't been a titan for a long time. Just like how Dick have not been a titan for a long time. Its like saying Dick is a titan, so he should never have been batman. He should always stay a titan and never move to the justice league.

#47 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Captain13 said:

@Raiiyn: @Raiiyn said:

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

No, he was getting scouted for a collge team 5 years ago. The youngest he could have been then is 16. I wen to the #1 rated Football High School in the Country (St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Fort Lauderdale), and some of my friends were getting offers from scouts at 18. So at minimum, Cyborg is 21 and at a maximum he's 23.

See the 5 years ago sign on the first panel of the first page of the Justice League origin story?

Since Superman was straight out of college 5 years ago in both Action Comics and Justice League, I'd peg him for 22. 5 years later, he's 27.

So Cyborg is about 23 and Supeman is about 27. That's not a big age difference.

I could easily see Wonder Woman leaving Paradise Island at 18 and being 23 also.

Flash and Green Lantern are also surely in their twenties.

Aquaman issue 8 places Aquaman in his 20s also.

But we do not know how old Superman is when he first got to metropolis. Im just using 20 as a gauge. In Earth one, he was fresh outta high school, didnt even go to college. As far as I know, I don't recall Clark ever going to college after high school. I could be wrong, but I doubt he went to college.

Pre-DCnU, he did go to college. In Superman: Earth One, he went to Junior College for 2 years then went looking for work. In the DCnU, I assumed he went to college because he's a practicing Journalist, but you're right--that not necessarily true. Superman COULD be as young 23-25.

@ReVamp said:

@Captain13 said:

I like him, and therefore I want to see him on a bigger name team than the Teen Titans. Hal Jordan fans and Barry Allen fans didn't care about retcons when their favorite heroes were retconned back into prominence. Why should I, a Cyborg fan, care that some retcons happened to make Cyborg one of DC's 7 biggest heroes? He's still Cyborg. His origin is more well defined. His personality is the same. And he has a great supporting cast of characters now (Silas, Sarah, Morrow, Ivo, etc.). This relaunch has been all aces for REAL Cyborg fans.

Liking someone and wanting them to have a bigger name is completely different.

I like Cyborg. Cyborg is a Titan. Thus I want him to be a Titan.

So you like Cyborg, but don't want him to have a bigger name? That doesn't make sense to me. I think that you like the old order--not Cyborg. I actually like Cyborg. I like him being one of the big 7.

#48 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Captain13 said:

I like him, and therefore I want to see him on a bigger name team than the Teen Titans. Hal Jordan fans and Barry Allen fans didn't care about retcons when their favorite heroes were retconned back into prominence. Why should I, a Cyborg fan, care that some retcons happened to make Cyborg one of DC's 7 biggest heroes? He's still Cyborg. His origin is more well defined. His personality is the same. And he has a great supporting cast of characters now (Silas, Sarah, Morrow, Ivo, etc.). This relaunch has been all aces for REAL Cyborg fans.

Liking someone and wanting them to have a bigger name is completely different.

I like Cyborg. Cyborg is a Titan. Thus I want him to be a Titan.

So you like Cyborg, but don't want him to have a bigger name? That doesn't make sense to me. I think that you like the old order--not Cyborg. I actually like Cyborg. I like him being one of the big 7.

Its not a question about not wanting him to have a bigger name though. I like Cyborg, it doesn't mean I want him to have a bigger name. Titans is where I was introduced to Cyborg. I mean, I like Cyborg in the big 7, I just don't want to forsake the Titans for it.

#49 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@sethysquare said:

@Captain13 said:

@Raiiyn: @Raiiyn said:

@sethysquare said:

@Raiiyn: Hes not that much younger than the rest. Superman met them when he just came to metropolis, right outta college, so I'm guessing 20?

Cyborg was in college so thats what 18?

Also its a good way to set up Cyborg and really give him exposure so that his solo would do great. Just like what they did with Aquaman.

Actually he is in high school and getting scouted for college so he is around 16 or 17.

Hopefully he gets a good following cause I don't think I'd mind a cyborg solo. Like I said I do enjoy his character... just not as a founder.

As for Superman, I can't really comment on how old he is exactly... but normally when you finish college... a degree is about four years so he would at least be 22?

No, he was getting scouted for a collge team 5 years ago. The youngest he could have been then is 16. I wen to the #1 rated Football High School in the Country (St. Thomas Aquinas High School in Fort Lauderdale), and some of my friends were getting offers from scouts at 18. So at minimum, Cyborg is 21 and at a maximum he's 23.

See the 5 years ago sign on the first panel of the first page of the Justice League origin story?

Since Superman was straight out of college 5 years ago in both Action Comics and Justice League, I'd peg him for 22. 5 years later, he's 27.

So Cyborg is about 23 and Supeman is about 27. That's not a big age difference.

I could easily see Wonder Woman leaving Paradise Island at 18 and being 23 also.

Flash and Green Lantern are also surely in their twenties.

Aquaman issue 8 places Aquaman in his 20s also.

But we do not know how old Superman is when he first got to metropolis. Im just using 20 as a gauge. In Earth one, he was fresh outta high school, didnt even go to college. As far as I know, I don't recall Clark ever going to college after high school. I could be wrong, but I doubt he went to college.

Pre-DCnU, he did go to college. In Superman: Earth One, he went to Junior College for 2 years then went looking for work. In the DCnU, I assumed he went to college because he's a practicing Journalist, but you're right--that not necessarily true. Superman COULD be as young 23-25.

Oh as in he went to like a community college? I guess that'll make him 21. But I did remember he didn't finish his education. Like all the way. So if he finished 2 years of Junior college, its just 21 then.

#50 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

said:

@Captain13 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Captain13 said:

I like him, and therefore I want to see him on a bigger name team than the Teen Titans. Hal Jordan fans and Barry Allen fans didn't care about retcons when their favorite heroes were retconned back into prominence. Why should I, a Cyborg fan, care that some retcons happened to make Cyborg one of DC's 7 biggest heroes? He's still Cyborg. His origin is more well defined. His personality is the same. And he has a great supporting cast of characters now (Silas, Sarah, Morrow, Ivo, etc.). This relaunch has been all aces for REAL Cyborg fans.

Liking someone and wanting them to have a bigger name is completely different.

I like Cyborg. Cyborg is a Titan. Thus I want him to be a Titan.

So you like Cyborg, but don't want him to have a bigger name? That doesn't make sense to me. I think that you like the old order--not Cyborg. I actually like Cyborg. I like him being one of the big 7.

Its not a question about not wanting him to have a bigger name though. I like Cyborg, it doesn't mean I want him to have a bigger name. Titans is where I was introduced to Cyborg. I mean, I like Cyborg in the big 7, I just don't want to forsake the Titans for it.

Cyborg could have done both teams simultaneously. Like Spider-Man or Wolverine. The reason that the Wolfman/Perez Titans era is gone is due to the non-existence of Wally and Donna. They don't exist because DC felt that they need to De-Age Barry and Diana, but didn't want to do the same to Wally and Donna. If anything you shouldn't blame Cyborg but Barry and Diana.

From page 1 of this thread:

@Captain13 said:

Titan
Titan With No Memories
Titan While On Justice League. Now he's a twenty-three year old man and the JL is all in their twenties.
Titan
Beast Boy is Red and Just Starting to be a Hero. Why is no one giving him $H!*?
Possible design for New 52 Raven. She doesn't exist yet.

I want everyone to understand something...

CYBORG IS NOT TO BLAME FOR CONTINUITY ISSUES. IT'S A NEW UNIVERSE. GET OVER IT.

Clearly the Wolfman/Perez run meant a lot to a lot of people, but get over it. Buy the TPB, and quit whining after 10 months. Cyborg being on the JL isn't the only thing that kept that series from being in continuity.

These four WERE a team while Cyborg was on the JLA. Spidey and Wolverine can be on two teams, so can Cyborg.

Raven doesn't exist, and it's not Cyborg's fault. GET OVER IT. REALITY WARPING IS NOT PART OF HIS POWER SET.

WALLY WEST DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE DC DE-AGED BARRY AND DIDN'T WANT TWO FLASHES WITH THE SAME AGE. THE ALSO DID NOT WANT TO DE-AGE WALLY BECAUSE WHAT MAKES HIM INTERESTING IS THAT HE'S GROWN INTO THE ROLE.

DONNA TROY DOES NOT EXIST BECAUSE WONDER WOMAN WAS ALSO DE-AGED.

There's a lot of reasons that the Wolfman/Perez stories are out of continuity. And thinking logically, just because Cyborg is on the JLA, doesn't mean that that is the reason that those stories didn't happen. He could have been on two teams at the same time. THE MAIN REASON THAT THOSE STORIES DIDN'T HAPPEN IS BECAUSE WALLY WEST AND DONNA TROY DON'T EXIST BECAUSE DC WANTED TO DE-AGE THEIR CHARACTERS. STOP GIVING CYBORG $&!# ABOUT IT, OKAY?

This is a new universe, okay? But you can still buy and enjoy your old stories.

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