Just close your eyes... just close your eyes.

This was a very interesting issue.

I don't think he is from the Bat Family... the Cave would have a record of who was entered the cave...Anyone from the Bat-Family goes in, Batman would know,

I'm assuming the guy who broke in was Bruce for some reason. That's my guess.

Well, the thief is definitely not a member of the batfamily (tim and bruce from what everyone keeps talking about). The guys got white skin, you can see that when he takes his glove off and his goggles. I haven't read the issue so does this thief meet up with the white guy from the Society? If he doesn't then it's probably the same person.

I am calling it right now, it was Jason Todd who broke into the batcave.

Talia has plenty of Damien clones.

The title should be: 5 things we learned about Batman from Justice League #19

@ltbrd: I agree with most everything you said except I don't like this WW/SM thing SPECIFICALLY because of the quality of writing not my implied close-mindedness. It is rather poorly executed and frankly I'm just baffled by how badly Johns writes Wonder Woman. It's really not that hard to give Azzarello a ring and avoid writing her like a slightly psychotic, hormonal 15 year old with her first boyfriend ever! (*squeel!* "Oh he got me an ice cream and he's so handsome and he said I was so pretty and he's such a great kisser!" etc, etc) Really, that's how she comes across sometimes. It's insulting to the character and the intelligence of fans in general. As a girl, I feel pretty let down when he can't get the team's only female character right. As if we couldn't spot such a badly written character

Absolutely. Spying on your team mates while they make out is nothing short of disturbing, deviated peeping tom. Batman showing up everywhere annoys me too

I like Bruce isn't acting like a jerk but heck did her tell them how he found out? Remember spying on them? I think WW and SM will get more pissed. The intruder leaves all the other boxes and goes for Superman. It's Supes he's gunning for.

Coming from someone who thinks ass slapping is chemistry and romance this is kinda rich. Did you see Azzarello finally shut that stupid 15 year old hormonal notion down?

The suit itself looks a lot like Batman's Insider suit, it would also explain how he could sneak in the Cave and get the jump on Jason.

-Only our dark knight would put a Batcave in his Batcave.

-...There's also the question as to how the computer somehow accepted this dude's retinal scan!

-I really hope you mean he didn't learn to put better locks on it, not learn not to do it. Haven't you been paying attention to the story of "Injustice: Gods Among Us"? What if Grodd took over the League's minds? Or Brainiac? Or Darkseid? What if Ultra-Humanite switched brains with them? What if Parasite stole their powers? Or Amazo? Those plans are perfectly justified!

Here I thought that Batman gained a green lantern ring :/

This is what I get for not keeping up with Justice League lol.

@johnqestion: Hey! People do keep track of my comments!

But I didn't mean as an actual romance. I found the interactions with Orion to be funny and humorous. I never, not once called them romantic if memory serves me correctly. Chemistry does not automatically equal romance. It could be merely sexual (like their's is turning out to be) or result in a close platonic friendship. If I want a romantic relationship to develop between the two, then I certainly don't want it now. That would just make her look slutty and frankly, Orion's still a jerk. I've also previously mentioned something called character development; He needs to grow up and stop throwing hissy fits every time he's punched. The relationship between Superman and Wonder Woman is meant to be romantic and the new "status quo". I find her dalliances with an assh*le more entertaining and that should not be the case. And I don't think I understand what you mean in your last question

That sound richer? I really worked on that one

He was barely in it, but I enjoyed Jason Todd's presence

For those that think I was Bruce here's why it couldn't be him. He wouldn't hurt Alfred, in any way. Next...

Aww yeah one way to proves batman's genius and prep is show the secret room he's been hiding.

@foxxfireart: Don't jump to conclusions. No said they were going there. They might but no one's said that. Have the benefit of the doubt. As for Superman and Wonder Woman dating, it's been a HUGE factor in this issue and JLA. That's the main reason Amanda Waller formed the JLA...

@batsymyplaything: DC officially released the cover and the full first few pages showing the entire opening scene Monday as a 'preview.' So it's been out since Monday. And it's not really a spoiler for the issue since none of the 'wft' covers have too much to do with what's actually happening.

People aren't reading I guess.

This was a really good issue. I'm ready for Shazam to enter the main series or get his own ongoing though. We've been reading his origin since the beginning of the David Graves story line.

it's getting tricky to follow everything. No offence but maybe some people have others comics to read beside the DC

I'll more enjoy to see the Kryptonian with the Amazon rather a SM/ Lois. I find her so annoying and useless.

@g_man

Okay, I hate to sound like one of those DC paranoids, but did you catch this in Justice League #19? Inside the display case is an outfit meant for a female that is Black & Yellow and (what looks to be) a cowl covering the mouth. Do we have a Cassie Cain?!...

@the_cyan_lantern: Could just be a retired costume. DC goes back and forth between having them as a shrine to fallen Bat heroes and retired costumes.

LOL .... am I the only one who thinks that it's stupid to be worried about Superman and Wonder Woman ? I mean what's the worst they can do, cause a mini earthquake ? I think Geoff John's is just running out of ideas, how about we give Grant Morrison the Justice League title he actually had exciting stories that had the heroes fighting the villians instead of fighting themeselves. If Geoff John's what's to write about heroes fighting each other I suggest writing for Marvel.

MARTIAN MANHUNTER: He turns into Bruce to take the Kryptonite ring and then puts it on and morphs into the dude at the end.

This certainly looks like the case of trying to drive a wedge in the team if ever I did see one! That "Insider" like thief has me most intrigued, and its obvious that Batman is in the same stance he is here vis a vis the League as he was going into Identity Crisis/Infinite Crisis. Troubled times ahead I tell you. Troubled times ahead.

@akindoodle: if you feel the need to associate a generalization with just you be my guest......my post was a sum total of comments and rants I have seen since the SM/WW relationship began.

Has everyone completely lost their minds? The thief's hand had white skin. The Talon serum turns skin white. So what Batman villain has used the Talon formula and has Wayne DNA and retina? Thomas Wayne Jr. Why in the seven hells would Martian Manhunter go to all the trouble to imitate Bruce and not make his skin a normal pigment?

Stepping away from Batman for a moment (because like I said before I have a feeling the identity of the thief may be more of a "jump the shark" than we are speculating) does anyone else find it extremely poor writing that following Superman and Wonder Woman's actions the news reports said "....making them the first Americans to enter Kahndaq in over 26 years...."

Since when our Superman and Wonder Woman Americans? I haven't gotten the impression that people are unaware of Themyscira's existence. So Wonder Woman would not be an American by any stretch of the imagination. Also, in issue 18 of Superman its only stated that he's given the same rights as an American citizen but its not stated that he is an American by default.

I enjoyed the dialog between Superman and Wonder Woman later in the issue, even though I thought it continued to show Wonder Woman in a poor and immature light when compared to the rest of her team, as it did a perfect job of highlighting Superman's opinion of his place in the world. However, to simply classify them, and by extension the Justice League, as Americans seemed to miss the mark in many ways. When the series started it seemed clear that the "of America" was dropped to highlight the fact that the Justice League isn't simply aligned to a single country and also takes into account the fact that Wonder Woman (Themyscira), Aquaman (Atlantis), and Green Lantern (Green Lantern Corps) are aligned with non-US parties and thus represent a broader scope. So to limit League activity or the actions of Superman and Wonder Woman because they are "Americans" just doesn't seem to fit.

Now had the news report said ".....making them the first foreigners to take action in Kahndaq in over 26 years...." and that as a result Kahndaq is forbidding any foreigners, diplomats or otherwise, from entering the country and attacking those that try to stay that would have made a lot more sense and shown, IMO, a greater degree of writing than simply slapping an American label on two superheroes that are technically not American.

@ltbrd:exactly, i dont get that part!! they're just considered American??!! why? just because they primarily operate in America,Doesn't WW live in London? And Superman is for the world,isn't he? AC #900 caught the eye of so many for a reason.

I really enjoyed this issue! But nothing even remotely like the covers happens

My money is on Martian Manhunter or Batman himself. The Tim theory was interesting, too...

After seeing the last page and the ring on the D.'s hand ... well, it seemed pretty clear for me that the thief was Batman himself under control of D. ... of course he's not aware of him mind controlled, so he's searching for an intruder (yet).

Only thing I wonder is ... if D. is using Batman to outplay the Justice League, why not taking ALL the things Batman has against the team members? Why just the Kryptonite ring for Superman?
Maybe D. is just too cocksure of himself and just considers Superman as a threat to him ... but it would be pretty stupid ... though it would somehow fit the character.

maybe the masked thief is Talon..?

@amazingwebhead: My gosh that's brilliant that could be a great plausible reason.

Agreed.

People know that. That doesn't change the fact that the plot is pretty lame, man. I mean, Batman has had no problem whatsoever sleeping with Wonder Woman in the past, and they are both part of the trinity. But suddenly when it's superman it's like ''Oh watch out, this is dangerous''. And all that despite the fact that Superman is known to be one of the kindest superheroes out there. That doesn't make any lick of sense... the author is simply rehashing elements from Kingdom Come and various other story lines that exploited the idea ever since.

DC should give these two characters a real chance to be together, instead of always use their closeness to trigger the same type of events.

And Batman is being a massive hypocrite too, he's spying on others and questioning their relationships, when he's been sleeping with Catwoman in the New 52, who is considered a criminal. Come on, the guy's a creeper, there's no getting around that.

Hear, hear!!

This thread is getting more attention, so here goes:

Once again, there will be spoilers in this topic, there has to be based on what is being discussed. You are warned, I dont want to see complaints. The point isnt to discuss the plot however, but just to discuss what this issue means for Superman and Wonder Woman in particular.

You know that version of Supes and Wonder Woman being shown in the Injustice trailers? The ones who are oppressive, and out of their typical character, believe they can take over for the good of society? Thats the version of Superman and Wonder Woman who are developing here, and while the Injustice Supes and WW are from an Elseworld and even an alternate reality even in that story, these are THE MAIN UNIVERSE VERSIONS, the ones we will see for years. Wonder Woman even encourages Supes to break international laws and control people for their own safety. She seems like a villainess trying to brainwash Superman and make him her pawn a lot like the Injustice WW.

Also, Superman is kind of a dumb meathead in this. He didnt even think about being low profile, he just punched first and asked questions later, and seemed dumbfounded that Batman was upset. Unlike haters think, Superman is not dumb, he has a genius level intellect, and he definitely is not the aggressive type.

Ive always thought Johns was kind of a hack, but this goes to show he knows nothing about Superman or Wonder Woman. Batman is portrayed as an admonishing father figure, and btw, WW even aggressively lashes out against him like an impudent child!

What did you all think? What do you think about the version of these iconic characters that will be our main universe versions of these characters at least until a pseudo reboot/retcon.

The only good thing about this issue is that the Justice League book, and Superman's self-titled, are the only ones exploring his and WW's relationship. This issue is very "Batwanky", and frankly, I beat Injustice, and based on the respect and dignity they placed on Supes and WW vs Geoff Johns' version, I think Netherrealms "gets" these characters more than DC!

If you read the issue it explains why... Its not that hes afraid their sex will tear the earth apart. Its about how people of earth will see two of the most powerful people in the world as a couple.

@lvenger: I think the whole idea is stupid, especially with what I believe John's is trying to do with Superman and Wonder Woman.

Superman with a beard is very good looking. His skin color is more of an olive tone & that beard makes him look like a boss.

how about the fact that this "stranger" knows the location of the batcave and can pass all of the security features (retina scan, finger print scan). who is he? im HOPING this is either damien clone or from the future. he needs to come back NOW. as for bats, see people this is what i've been saying for years. this guy is NUTS. who sits around and plots ways to kill his FRIENDS. not only that but has the weapons on hand to slay said "friends". if this is your idol to look up to, think you need to see a shrink asap. not cool or heroic in any way

Yeah, that's what I've been trying to say. I feel like Geoff Johns doesn't like or care much about Superman and I feel that his using Wonder Woman as some form of courruption for Superman ( Superman is strong by mind and will) , which is why I think his whole plot is stupid. He does not understand Superman, and writes him like some agressive brute and Wonder Woman like some bitchy child. Overall, the only character I feel he should write is Green Lantern. Am sure if your a hardcore Batman fan you won't mind what John's is doing but if you love or respect Wonder Woman or Superman, it's pretty horrible to see your heroes treated like this, at times I can't even believe that it's Superman in the Justice League (Is it him or Ultraman ?). But thanks for writing it out, I thought I was the only one that understood what was going on.

@mia26: Look up Alan Moore's "Twilight of the Super Heroes" which DC just traded to get the full rights to. This is what they are going for, I was excited, but I was hoping theyd execute it with a lot more subtlety, class, and dignity. The Road to Hell is Paved with Good Intentions, except Supes and WW's intentions dont look good.

I understnad what you and G-Man are trying to say and I can understand that

it can have some extremly parnoid people worried, but I don't understand why ? I

mean Yes they are both the most powerful beings on earth and a Superbaby is

possible, so what they hook up get married have a baby, at the end of the day

they are still heroes and their actions are those of heroes. I just feel that Superman and Wonder Woman have been mischaracterized, Superman is some dumb, agressive brute and Wonder Woman some bitchy child. Geoff John's has dissapointed me, especially if he plans on using Wonder Woman as a form of courruption to Superman who some how controls this strong willed individual who was Pre-52 the leader of the Justice League and had an instinctive knowlege of right and wrong. I want my Superman and Wonder Woman back no more crap from Geoff John's. I know the idea is explianed and I understand, I just think it's stupid.

@mia26: @deaditegonzo: You guys think DC are going for a Twilight of The Superheroes in the New 52? Someone else brought that up before and I'm not so sure DC would do that. It would involve ruining the depictions of some of their most cherished characters and if I recall the plot of that story from Moore, then an all out war leaves no one the victor. Where do they take their comics and universe from here? Reverting back to Pre Flashpoint continuity would be a betrayal of what DC claim to have done.

You sound like you backtracking a bit now on what you've been saying but if you like seeing WW deal with assholes as entertainment, then you could go for Guy Gardener or Hal Jordan to some extent but Diana was treated with more respect by Hal. But she more or less schooled Hal too in JL for presuming to try to tell her want to do and also for being a douche too. Also why should we want to see women heroes this way constantly? The only way we can get entertainment out of them is getting men to behave like idiots around them? The people all hating on sm/ww usually have their own shipping choices, which is fine but it's reaching you think this is good development for Diana to fall for assholes. And Azzarello never once showed WW interested in him. That is your wishful thinking. Because she is a woman, does not mean any man within her vicinity she has to want them.That is the point Azz made here. Also she'll wring anyone's balls off if he keep treating her like a piece if meat as Orion did. Epic.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure that I liked the scolding that Batman gave them. Superman is a journalist and would have had an understanding of international law, and violations there of, previous to this under cover mission.

Why they needed to go under cover is also a questionable plot detail to me as well.

This doesn't make even the slightest bit of sense. Setting aside the fact that there are black Talons, like the one in Birds of Prey right now, who've taken the Talon serum and remained black (I mean, seriously); Thomas Wayne Jr. is almost certainly going to be restricted to the Bat-books alone, and people have cheated DNA/retina scanners in fiction a ludicrous number of times. Catwoman has cheated retina scanners.

Not that I think the thief was J'onn anyway ---- it's unlikely he'd be working for freaking Despero and it's more likely the thief is involved in some capacity with the Secret Society. It could be someone like Everyman.