@spiderbat87: I know that, there have been multiple main crisis that change events. This just changes the entire current stories we had in the past, and replaces them with another new earth
i dont know if anyone noticed but at the end of JL 1 where all the sketches and concept art are next to the sketch of cyborg it says "future titan". im hoping that this means that the first story with darkseid and the founding of the JL will lead to cyborg being created but not on the actual team. so after the darkseid story 5 years ago is complete cyborg would go on to join the titans and then when JL moves to present day he is put on the team along with the other members that make up the full 14 or 15 roster. thats just my theory
"Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse."
Dude....really...? I don't want to say that that was stupid...but...that was stupid. No offense. It just doesn't make any sense. No one is going to feel represented because "Hey, at least there is an alien on the team. Even though he looks sort of anglo-saxon-like, I can pretend that I identify with his extraterrestrial-ness. Because it's not like we live in a world where if you don't look white like Superman looks white, you could still be cast as Superman in the movie or TV series, because, hey, he's an alien. And that's all fanboys will remember." The Justice League might not consist of people from regular walks of life, but that is part of the appeal. The whole, "Well, he is an alien" , or "She from some fictional place", or "He this person is an alien with a non human skin tone that is so ambiguous any non-white kid could pretend he represents him/her" is kind of a cop out. I know you don't mean anything by it G-Man. And I am not trying be an @$$#ole, it's just that kind of irked me. Hopefully, Johns writes Cyborg in such a way that he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and isn't just what some are calling just a token character. No one looks at Wonder Woman as a "token female character." Because she has been written with such passion and care for the character for years. Hopefully, Johns does the same with Victor Stone.
I agree completely! And on the same token, you won't see Mr. Terrific and Cyborg be on the same Justice League team in this new DC because that's one "Token African American Male" character too many. Sorry but it's true. Not everyone wants to hear but it's true. That's how the industry now a days looks at it.
The first team that popped into my head was New Warriors by Marvel:
Oh yeah, we sure rocked the 90's As far as having "2 African American Males" on the same team, were you just talking about comics as a whole or just DC in general?
Anyway this team had both Night Thrasher and Rage compromising it's 2 male heroes, plus a female African American heroes with Silhouette, so basically three African Americans in one team.
I'll have to look up on DC though... but your guy's statements is a very interesting and a definite eye opener.
@G-Man: It also said that Superman's costume's story will be revealed. Maybe they are making it continuity that his costume/armory look was Kryptonian. Given to him by his parents, placed in his spaceship. Instead of made by Martha. (which also looks similar to the Superman costume in the new movie coming out.)
So then Superman will go from wearing Kryptonian Armor, to threads made complete with those red undies?
And Batman does the same thing by also putting some undies outside his Kevlar Suit a good 5 years later?
I don't know... that just seems "BACKWARDS".
"The Fashion of the Future" - 5 years after Justice League #1
Found the pace of the story ridiculously slow. 22 pages and only about five minutes of time in the actual world. Get the feeling it'll be a while before an actual plot beyond the initial introductions and first perceptions is laid out. Hoping its not going to be a collection of strings: Hero meets hero--> Heroes battle each other--> Heroes find stalemate in some way--> Heroes reluctantly work together--> Heroes go looking for more heroes--> Repeat until all major characters are introduced.
@danhimself:OMFG. AWESOME. I'm going to get Flashpoint just because of that catch. Nice Bauer. @G-Man said:
Cyborg is a founding member?
The first is obvious. Cyborg will be part of the team. While the first issue doesn't make it official, Victor Stone is in the issue and has been on the covers and promo images. There's nothing wrong with Cyborg being on the team. The shocking part is how his story will fit in with the formation of the Teen Titans. Justice League #1 begins five years ago and he hasn't become Cyborg yet.
Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse. Wonder Woman (we assume) is still from Themyscira. Aquaman is from Atlantis. The Justice League isn't made up of a bunch of white Americans. If this is the reason for adding him, that's fine. I just want to know if he will be part of the Teen Titans first in this flashback and then quickly move up to the Justice League.
As for the tech-angle, he doesn't appear to be a tech expert. He's a kid that's really good at playing football. No hints have been given that he knows about technology. His father is another story and that connection could bring something to the League.
It will be the other way round. In the end of the book it is mentioned that Cyborg is a future Titan (implying he's already part of the justice league). The way I see this is going to play out is that he is going to be the older, more experienced Super hero, supervising the "kids" that were running around. I didn't like this, until (as some of you Titan fans may remember too) I remembered the first issue of the Titans (actually its the Titans East special, that leads directly into the titans series) series, where Victor is trying to get the others all back together in the team. For some reason I think that it fits, the Titans being Victor's "Baby" and whatnot.
@Jordanstine: What I meant was that maybe they are saying Superman costume is Kryptonian, not made by Martha on Earth. You know how some of the stories say martha made his costume and others say its kryptonian. Not that eventually he will go to cloth. Because in the new comics (that I am assuming are modern day stories not past stories) have him still in armory looking stuff. All I meant was that maybe it looks armory because its alien. Batman is also now in armor in his current stories I think.
In the new Superman movie he looks similar to Jim Lee's design. Superman's costume looks Kryptonian too, no red undies and little wrist gauntlet thingies too. So maybe they are trying to tie it into the movie, maybe they are trying to tie the comics into the movies more.
I heard on the radio, scan mode, them advertising "DC comics renumbered including the JLA!" But it flipped past and I couldn't go back. DC is advertising on the radio!? They should advertise on Cartoon Network.
"Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse."
Dude....really...? I don't want to say that that was stupid...but...that was stupid. No offense. It just doesn't make any sense. No one is going to feel represented because "Hey, at least there is an alien on the team. Even though he looks sort of anglo-saxon-like, I can pretend that I identify with his extraterrestrial-ness. Because it's not like we live in a world where if you don't look white like Superman looks white, you could still be cast as Superman in the movie or TV series, because, hey, he's an alien. And that's all fanboys will remember." The Justice League might not consist of people from regular walks of life, but that is part of the appeal. The whole, "Well, he is an alien" , or "She from some fictional place", or "He this person is an alien with a non human skin tone that is so ambiguous any non-white kid could pretend he represents him/her" is kind of a cop out. I know you don't mean anything by it G-Man. And I am not trying be an @$$#ole, it's just that kind of irked me. Hopefully, Johns writes Cyborg in such a way that he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and isn't just what some are calling just a token character. No one looks at Wonder Woman as a "token female character." Because she has been written with such passion and care for the character for years. Hopefully, Johns does the same with Victor Stone.
The line was pretty stupid, but honestly.... The only reason Cyborg is on the Justice League is because of the diversity he brings to the team. I don't really understand it because ive never read a comic book to relate to the characters im reading about. It's all fiction, but having a human/toaster hybrid on the big JL kind of doesn't make sense.
I dont believe cyborg being on the team has anything to do with diversity. I believe it has to do with the fact that these guys grew up watching super friends the last season of which (Galactic Guardians) featured Darkseid as the villain and Cyborg and Firestorm replaced the wonder twins. Firestorms head is on the left side of the big Lee group pic. Seems to me like theyre trying to recreate something they loved from their childhood. Im around the same age they are and when I saw Cyborg on the team the first thing I thought of was the old super freinds show, then I notice Firestorm was there too, made me smile. Now they just need to make Apache Chief, Eldorado and Samurai part of the DCU :)
"Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse."
Dude....really...? I don't want to say that that was stupid...but...that was stupid. No offense. It just doesn't make any sense. No one is going to feel represented because "Hey, at least there is an alien on the team. Even though he looks sort of anglo-saxon-like, I can pretend that I identify with his extraterrestrial-ness. Because it's not like we live in a world where if you don't look white like Superman looks white, you could still be cast as Superman in the movie or TV series, because, hey, he's an alien. And that's all fanboys will remember." The Justice League might not consist of people from regular walks of life, but that is part of the appeal. The whole, "Well, he is an alien" , or "She from some fictional place", or "He this person is an alien with a non human skin tone that is so ambiguous any non-white kid could pretend he represents him/her" is kind of a cop out. I know you don't mean anything by it G-Man. And I am not trying be an @$$#ole, it's just that kind of irked me. Hopefully, Johns writes Cyborg in such a way that he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and isn't just what some are calling just a token character. No one looks at Wonder Woman as a "token female character." Because she has been written with such passion and care for the character for years. Hopefully, Johns does the same with Victor Stone.
The line was pretty stupid, but honestly.... The only reason Cyborg is on the Justice League is because of the diversity he brings to the team. I don't really understand it because ive never read a comic book to relate to the characters im reading about. It's all fiction, but having a human/toaster hybrid on the big JL kind of doesn't make sense.
To be fair, he's also there because they didn't want two aliens on the team at the same time (even though the JL cartoon had 3) and because he's a very "modern" hero as he has a technological bent.
I think those are compelling reasons (the latter more than the former) even if racial diversity was the primary motivation.
"Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse."
Dude....really...? I don't want to say that that was stupid...but...that was stupid. No offense. It just doesn't make any sense. No one is going to feel represented because "Hey, at least there is an alien on the team. Even though he looks sort of anglo-saxon-like, I can pretend that I identify with his extraterrestrial-ness. Because it's not like we live in a world where if you don't look white like Superman looks white, you could still be cast as Superman in the movie or TV series, because, hey, he's an alien. And that's all fanboys will remember." The Justice League might not consist of people from regular walks of life, but that is part of the appeal. The whole, "Well, he is an alien" , or "She from some fictional place", or "He this person is an alien with a non human skin tone that is so ambiguous any non-white kid could pretend he represents him/her" is kind of a cop out. I know you don't mean anything by it G-Man. And I am not trying be an @$$#ole, it's just that kind of irked me. Hopefully, Johns writes Cyborg in such a way that he doesn't stick out like a sore thumb and isn't just what some are calling just a token character. No one looks at Wonder Woman as a "token female character." Because she has been written with such passion and care for the character for years. Hopefully, Johns does the same with Victor Stone.
This is a good post. I agree with what you are saying, you presented very clear reasoning, and you were very polite in your delivery. /clap
Cyborg's inclusion seems, from the writers, as a bit of tokenism.
Cyborg may very well be worth joining the league, but the writers didn't say "Hey, I want Cyborg to be part of the founding team!", they said "Hey, I want a black guy to be part of the founding team... whatcha got?"
Arguably CN's JL did the same thing... coming up with John Stewart and Hawkegirl ontop of Wonderwoman and Martian Manhunter... that's 4/7 guys who are not clearly WHITE MEN. Superman's a kryptonian, but who gives a !^%#.
Now I get it - back then white men sold. This is, arguably, still true. But on a team book, diversity adds to the story/character/world. This sells. Especially to today's comic audience. This is a team book. So unless you're stuck in a bind - nostalgia or good writing. They clearly picked the former with just a bit of tokenism for the illusion of good writing.
Ok, I'm a black South African and I'm not being racial or anything here. I don't mind Cyborg being on the team it's just that he feels more like a Teen Titan than a Justice Leaguer. Besides why take Martian Manhunter to Stormwatch, he belongs to Justice League. Anyway didn't MM already cover the whole racial diversity thing by posing as an African American most of the time? He is a Martian too, that's pretty diversed for me.
@Jordanstine: sorry I dont write for dc so I dont know. they are keeping major plot lines but theyre changing them as well. for instance killing joke happened but Babs was just shot not paralyzed from the shot. so the future we remember isnt exactly the future of the DCU.
I am hoping that Cyborg isnt actually a founding member of the League, but rather that what these first issues will be the first time theres a superhero banding together before the split up again without forming an actual team (though the papers might think so) leaving them all to exhange phone-numbers/signal watches (maybe Vic just helps them out). Later on Vic has his accident, TT is formed and disbands and he will be ready-set to join the League when its actually founded.
As for the non-scientist remark, well Vic didnt want to be into science, at all, he wanted to play football and other sports, much to his fathers chargrin, but thats not to say Vic wasnt gifted in the field of science, because he was and he probably will be again. But if he was just added for diversity...they could have taken Steel or John Steward (or both).
Btw, Cyborg is wayyyy too clunky for my tastes...certainly not designed by Mac.
I'm surprised nobody mentioned that the text in Justice League #1 is not exactly the same in the digital version as it is in the print edition. (I have not personally confirmed this but I've heard it from a bunch of people)
Wow, nothing in this article is making me like the idea of the new 52 at all. I am just going to sit back and watch DC do its thing. Hopefully they won't piss too many people off.
I think that the most important thing to remember is, Flashpoint did partially retcon the DCU. I think that the best way to treat the New 52 is to regard it like a reboot, so you can walk in there with a fresh and hopefully open mind. If something pre-New 52 is mentioned in one of the books, treat it like a bit of history. But don't keep asking about relationships, and if this person fought this villain.
@SpidermanWins: i think he's more or less taking on more of a guy gardner personality in this series. the first conmic tho is a good read. it isnt as bad as there making it sound here in this article. go ahed and pick up a copy
I thought the first issue was okay but I'm excited for the relaunch overall .
I think people need to go into this thing without thinking about the past. DC is looking for new readers. Those who don't know or haven't cared about the DC until know. So it makes sense if they made things more accessible and easy to get into.
Also, I think it's kind of odd I haven't seen any advertisements. DC is going have trouble trying to get new readers if they keep this up.
As someone who prefers Marvel's characters, though not always there writers lol, New 52 is giving someone like me a good time to give DC a try. I think overall it will work for getting new readers. I'm not going to read ever single one of the New 52, but I'm gonna check out all main JLA character's issue #1's (except maybe Aquaman) plus Catwoman, Birds of Prey, JLA Dark, Resurrection Man, Voodoo, Suicide Squad, and Blackhawks.
I will drop any I don't like, but I'm going to give them all a few issues. New 52 does make is easier to get into DC, but I do hope they don't change too much and annoy the long time fans.
Had and interesting thought. I think its been said that in the DCnU Superman is the first public superhero but Batman has been working in the shadows for a number of years (not sure how many) before that. But since this is 5 years in the past Dick Grayson would be around 16 during this time and was probably already Robin. So does that mean Dick Grayson was this universe's second costume hero? That is an interesting thought.
I figured everyone would know I was joking. Kinda surprised actually people thought I was serious.
As for the subject of relating to a character's race, I'm Hispanic but never cared about having a Hispanic character to relate to. But maybe that's just me.
That was a joke...ummm...alright. You might be one of those guys who are funnier when drunk. It's okay. I have plenty of friends just like that.
And as far as not needing the character to be of the same ethnicity, I'm just saying the roster should look at least as diverse as real life. A roster to make the Justice League look more like a product of it's time. If you look out at the streets of Manhattan, you might not see a homogenous mass of people strolling down the street. It's all demographical changes and trying to appeal to people with stronger economic buying power. The folks in marketing know that people buy into a product when they see themselves in the group that is being marketed to. Even if individuals don't want to admit to it or are even aware of it. And when dealing with fantasy and story telling, it's not just throwing some minorities in there "just because", it's when every character is written with the same respect and quality.
Speaking of which, if you are as old as I think you are (about my age) then this might have been the reason behind why you have such a bad taste in your mouth when it comes to comics not making hispanic characters: because when they did they screwed it up. Horribly....
El Dorado was created solely for the Super Friends cartoons and has never appeared in a DC Comic. He first appeared as minor character in the Super Friends animated shorts, which aired in 1981 season and later in Super Friends: The Legendary Super Powers Show as a full-time member. El Dorado, a Latino, was added as one of several attempts to encourage diversity among the characters. Like other ethnic characters added during this period, he was seen as somewhat stereotypical. El Dorado spoke English with an accent, sporadically substituting common Spanish words or phrases, such as adding words like "rapido" and replacing nearly every instance of "yes" with "si".citation needed]
In El Dorado's debut episode "Alien Mummy" it is revealed that he is of Mexican descent. The narrator sets the scene by describing the location as 'ancient Aztec ruins in the Mexican wilderness'. One of El Dorado's lines is "these are the mysterious ruins of my people".
That's enough to make anyone scream a Darth Vader ret-conned NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
I'll wait and see how these changes go for the GL corps, the only series I do follow. With these kind of reviews though, looks like DC may have lost this reader again. Just when story lines were getting good, DC has to do a big turnover again.
@SpidermanWins: i think he's more or less taking on more of a guy gardner personality in this series. the first conmic tho is a good read. it isnt as bad as there making it sound here in this article. go ahed and pick up a copy
Oh i was just joking but yeah probably. Wonder if he decided to morph their personalities and get rid of Guy... I will pick up a copy though. I agree it doesn't seem as bad as it sounds. Looks good. I like what they're doing with Cyborg.
I do wanna see JSA on Earth 2 eventually. But for now I'm just totally liking this new angle. Superheroes in the shadows, feared and in wonder by the general populace. Superman and Batman in armor. Vic Stone as a great football player. Everything is just great. I just hope it can be kept up. Last week the DCU we knew came to a close. Lets just hope that the new DCU lives up to the greatness that was the old :)
"CBR News has heard from several sources that the woman will be "Easter Egged" into every single first issue of DC's New 52 titles, leading to suspicion about a major crossover or universe-spanning story to come. Reached for comment, a spokesperson for DC said the publisher could share nothing about the character at this time." My guess is that is Raven. And what happened to the Dakotaverse??
I figured everyone would know I was joking. Kinda surprised actually people thought I was serious.
As for the subject of relating to a character's race, I'm Hispanic but never cared about having a Hispanic character to relate to. But maybe that's just me.
That was a joke...ummm...alright. You might be one of those guys who are funnier when drunk. It's okay. I have plenty of friends just like that.
And as far as not needing the character to be of the same ethnicity, I'm just saying the roster should look at least as diverse as real life. A roster to make the Justice League look more like a product of it's time. If you look out at the streets of Manhattan, you might not see a homogenous mass of people strolling down the street. It's all demographical changes and trying to appeal to people with stronger economic buying power. The folks in marketing know that people buy into a product when they see themselves in the group that is being marketed to. Even if individuals don't want to admit to it or are even aware of it. And when dealing with fantasy and story telling, it's not just throwing some minorities in there "just because", it's when every character is written with the same respect and quality.
Speaking of which, if you are as old as I think you are (about my age) then this might have been the reason behind why you have such a bad taste in your mouth when it comes to comics not making hispanic characters: because when they did they screwed it up. Horribly....
El Dorado was created solely for the Super Friends cartoons and has never appeared in a DC Comic. He first appeared as minor character in the Super Friends animated shorts, which aired in 1981 season and later in Super Friends: The Legendary Super Powers Show as a full-time member. El Dorado, a Latino, was added as one of several attempts to encourage diversity among the characters. Like other ethnic characters added during this period, he was seen as somewhat stereotypical. El Dorado spoke English with an accent, sporadically substituting common Spanish words or phrases, such as adding words like "rapido" and replacing nearly every instance of "yes" with "si".citation needed]
In El Dorado's debut episode "Alien Mummy" it is revealed that he is of Mexican descent. The narrator sets the scene by describing the location as 'ancient Aztec ruins in the Mexican wilderness'. One of El Dorado's lines is "these are the mysterious ruins of my people".
That's enough to make anyone scream a Darth Vader ret-conned NNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!
"Speculation has been that he was added to give some racial diversity to the team and to give them an expert in tech. Superman is from another planet. That's pretty diverse."
I agree completely! And on the same token, you won't see Mr. Terrific and Cyborg be on the same Justice League team in this new DC because that's one "Token African American Male" character too many. Sorry but it's true. Not everyone wants to hear but it's true. That's how the industry now a days looks at it.
The first team that popped into my head was New Warriors by Marvel:
Oh yeah, we sure rocked the 90's As far as having "2 African American Males" on the same team, were you just talking about comics as a whole or just DC in general?
Anyway this team had both Night Thrasher and Rage compromising it's 2 male heroes, plus a female African American heroes with Silhouette, so basically three African Americans in one team.
I'll have to look up on DC though... but your guy's statements is a very interesting and a definite eye opener.
I was just naming Justice League not comic books in general.
I don't read much Marvel to know exact, but it's nice to see a team like the New Warriors don't just throw out the token diversities into it's team like the NEW Justice League, but in fact is a team originally made with diversity.
So many people said that they were just renumbering titles and using new costumes - that the DC universe would continue with the exact same continuity. I said they were changing things. Did they listen to me? No. No they did not.
This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:
Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along
with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely
increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.
Comment and Save
Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other
Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll
send you an email once approved.
.jpg)
.jpg)
Log in to comment