Does Anyone Think Martian Manhunter shouldn't have been Replaced

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#1 Posted by ManMartianhunter (33 posts) - - Show Bio

i think aquaman should've been replaced seeing as he has a poor comic existence...

#2 Edited by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

oh my goodness.Somebody who is a man martianhunter fan with an avatar and named himself after him.

#3 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

You have no idea how many people agree with you.

I like Aquaman, and I love Cyborg, so I'm generally okay with it. Power-wise, Martian Manhunter is more significant than Aquaman.

#4 Posted by BiteMe-Fanboy (7499 posts) - - Show Bio

@ManMartianhunter said:

i think aquaman should've been replaced seeing as he has a poor comic existence...

Poor comic existance? Aquaman's current series is one of the best. But I agree that Martian Manhunter should be in the JL..

#5 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

Martian Manhunter is joiing next year so it's moot

#6 Posted by Funrush (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

Me. I don't think Aqua should have been tossed either. If they wanted to creaet racial equality on the JL, why not replace Hal with John, who some people like and know more than Hal anyway?

#7 Edited by Saucedo17 (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@Funrush:

What does race have to do with anything.

#8 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12418 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree but I think people need to get over it now. And we already have at least one thread devoted to this topic.

#9 Posted by Onemoreposter (3869 posts) - - Show Bio

@Saucedo17 said:

@Funrush:

What does race have to do with anything.

Don't be naive.

@ManMartianhunter: Lots of us wish the martian was still there. One of my favorite League eras was Morrison's and John was integral then. The unrest I think is dying down though. Cyborgs being written well, and personally I'm enjoying the series as a whole.

I still await the return of the Martian Manhunter and it WILL happen. Nothing in comics is permanent. My best advice is to just try and enjoy the series though. You might find yourself pleasantly surprised.

Oh, and replacing Aquaman would've been worse than replacing MM IMO.

#10 Posted by PrinceIMC (5421 posts) - - Show Bio

They teased that they tried to recruit Martian Manhunter, that's a story I'd like to see.

#11 Posted by SoA (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

if you haven't read aquaman's series its actually very good . and i like the fact that the JLA fought MM and consider it a sore subject . he is good at stormwatch, leave him be .

#12 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@ManMartianhunter:

Uhm. No.

Aquaman > Martian Manhunter.

MM basically have close to zero fanbase.

While Aquaman was able to be in the top 10 sold comics for 2 months. Aquaman is crazily popular now. Everyone is requesting Aquaman to be on Injustice. Nobody really cares about MM. Well, except a few ppl.

@Funrush: Because Hal is the most popular Green Lantern. Sales shows.

#13 Edited by Lvenger (17897 posts) - - Show Bio

Let's be honest here. Martian Manhunter has all of Superman's powers + telepathy + shape shifting + invisibility/intangibility + maybe more I haven't mentioned. In addition to Superman and Wonder Woman, it's gonna be really difficult to think of challenges to the League when you have three of the most powerful beings in the world on the team. So I do think Manhunter should have been replaced. Not with Cyborg though.

@SoA: Manhunter's leaving Stormwatch in issue 12 and at SDCC, Johns said there would be a story that would detail MM's brief tenure on the team.

@Superdork said:

Martian Manhunter is joiing next year so it's moot

Didn't Johns just say that there would be a story in January that would explain Martian Manhunter's brief tenure on the team?

#14 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

Let's be honest here. Martian Manhunter has all of Superman's powers + telepathy + shape shifting + invisibility/intangibility + maybe more I haven't mentioned. In addition to Superman and Wonder Woman, it's gonna be really difficult to think of challenges to the League when you have three of the most powerful beings in the world on the team. So I do think Manhunter should have been replaced. Not with Cyborg though.

@SoA: Manhunter's leaving Stormwatch in issue 12 and at SDCC, Johns said there would be a story that would detail MM's brief tenure on the team.

@Superdork said:

Martian Manhunter is joiing next year so it's moot

Didn't Johns just say that there would be a story in January that would explain Martian Manhunter's brief tenure on the team?

Agreed with you. However, I do think that Cyborg is a good choice to add to the team. He has a particular skill set that others simply don't have. BC, GA, Hawkman, Black Lightning could've easily been on the team. But these heroes wouldn't be able to contribute like how Cyborg can.

#15 Posted by Lvenger (17897 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I do like Cyborg as a League member. Just not a founding one. It mucks up all the wonderful lore that Marv Wolfman created for Cyborg in Teen Titans. Not to mention there being countless continuity issues as Cyborg serves on both the Teen Titans and the Justice League yet we never get any specific details about this history. It would have been much better if Cyborg had joined the League later as that would signal the evolution of the character. Maybe set him up in Justice League and have him as the catalyst that sends Darkseid and the Parademons home, just not as a part of the League yet. That would have been so much better IMO.

#16 Posted by herrweis (427 posts) - - Show Bio

i too think that the manhunter should have been on the team from the jump.cyborg is such a non event in the book

#17 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@sethysquare: I do like Cyborg as a League member. Just not a founding one. It mucks up all the wonderful lore that Marv Wolfman created for Cyborg in Teen Titans. Not to mention there being countless continuity issues as Cyborg serves on both the Teen Titans and the Justice League yet we never get any specific details about this history. It would have been much better if Cyborg had joined the League later as that would signal the evolution of the character. Maybe set him up in Justice League and have him as the catalyst that sends Darkseid and the Parademons home, just not as a part of the League yet. That would have been so much better IMO.

"San Diego Comic Con (SDCC) 2012′s last day included DC Comics New 52′s Young Justice panel. Teen Titans writer Scott Lobdell dropped a few bombshells. Some have been implied already, but Lobdell makes some big confirmations.

    Teen Titans #0 is almost exclusively about Tim Drake. We keep most of the origin in tact, that as far as he can tell Tim Drake went straight to being Red Robin and had no official time as Robin, “in that he was one of the few people to get really close to tracking down who Bruce is. It’ll feel like The New 52. It’ll be a new, updated version of the origin. I’m really excited about it. No less a person than Scott Snyder said it was awesome.”

Then as part of the Young Justice panel’s Question and Answer portion, we had the following exchange:

    If Red Robin just started the Teen Titans, how is the flashback with Nightwing explained? “It doesn’t show the Teen Titans, it shows people who used to be on Teen Titans hanging out together. There was no reference to Teen Titans. My feeling is that in the DC New 52, yes, these characters have crossed paths before, but there was no previous version of the Teen Titans. That group you saw in flashback was there, but they were not ‘Teen Titans.’” Lobdell says that originally there was going to be more history with the Teen Titans, but plans changed along the way, and might change again.

So, no confirmed Teen Titans before the current crop. Tim Drake has only been Red Robin; never Robin. And, per the last line above, the DC Comics New 52 plans are bit more organic than concrete.

Fun times."

- http://insidepulse.com/2012/07/15/sdcc-2012-tidbits-teen-titans-reboot-detailed-tim-drakes-batman-robin-days-rebooted-too/

#18 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger said:

@sethysquare: I do like Cyborg as a League member. Just not a founding one. It mucks up all the wonderful lore that Marv Wolfman created for Cyborg in Teen Titans. Not to mention there being countless continuity issues as Cyborg serves on both the Teen Titans and the Justice League yet we never get any specific details about this history. It would have been much better if Cyborg had joined the League later as that would signal the evolution of the character. Maybe set him up in Justice League and have him as the catalyst that sends Darkseid and the Parademons home, just not as a part of the League yet. That would have been so much better IMO.

I don't think it matters. It seems like all the previous Teen Titan continuity has been wiped. Raven and Beast Boy was never a Teen Titan. Best thing we got was Nightwing, Arsenel and Starfire used to hang out with each other. So like saying you don't like the idea of the current TT, RH&TO, Nightwing and Ravagers. So yeah I think its not very fair to just put the blame on Cyborg.

Which is also equivalent to saying you don't like the current action comics because it mucks up all the wonderful stories of death of superman. Since Steel's first appearance is when Clark went to space to battle with Brainiac.

#19 Posted by Funrush (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

@Saucedo17 said:

@Funrush:

What does race have to do with anything.

Why else would they replace MM, with Cyborg of all people?

#20 Posted by Lvenger (17897 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare said:

@Lvenger said:

@sethysquare: I do like Cyborg as a League member. Just not a founding one. It mucks up all the wonderful lore that Marv Wolfman created for Cyborg in Teen Titans. Not to mention there being countless continuity issues as Cyborg serves on both the Teen Titans and the Justice League yet we never get any specific details about this history. It would have been much better if Cyborg had joined the League later as that would signal the evolution of the character. Maybe set him up in Justice League and have him as the catalyst that sends Darkseid and the Parademons home, just not as a part of the League yet. That would have been so much better IMO.

I don't think it matters. It seems like all the previous Teen Titan continuity has been wiped. Raven and Beast Boy was never a Teen Titan. Best thing we got was Nightwing, Arsenel and Starfire used to hang out with each other. So like saying you don't like the idea of the current TT, RH&TO, Nightwing and Ravagers. So yeah I think its not very fair to just put the blame on Cyborg.

Which is also equivalent to saying you don't like the current action comics because it mucks up all the wonderful stories of death of superman. Since Steel's first appearance is when Clark went to space to battle with Brainiac.

I can see your point. It's just there are a lot of continuity issues with the New 52. And Death of Superman is supposed to have still happened I believe. Even though Superboy wasn't cloned till later and Clark and Lois have never shared a romantic relationship nor has she discovered that he's Superman. And I don't blame Steel or Superboy for that. Though it is slightly easier to explain the death of Superman than it is to explain the history of the Teen Titans.

#21 Edited by matchesmalone21 (8266 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995 said:

There are more Martian Manhunter fans than there are Cyborg fans!!!

The absolute truth!!! For the 1st time,I agreed with you

#22 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio
#23 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlueLantern1995 said:

There are more Martian Manhunter fans than there are Cyborg fans and more than Aquaman...Cyborg is just plain crappy.

LOL. Don't let the Cyborg fans and Aquaman see this. They will tear your lie apart.

#24 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with MM but...

shut yo dirty mouth about aquaman, he's had enough sh!t given to him by ungrateful b@stards fans who ridicule him after super friends. He deserves his chance in she spotlight buster, and nothing is gonna stop that.

#25 Posted by SoA (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: as long as its a issue or two and not permanent spot. as u stated a team with supes, WW,MM,GL the flash, and aquaman, and cyborg will run out of enemies quick. if you had the choice who would of been a founding member not counting Cyborg or MM?

#26 Posted by SoA (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rumble Man: well put sir .well put.

#27 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12418 posts) - - Show Bio

No one should have been replaced. It was stupid when the did it with Black Canary but at least it was tolerable (because we had Mark Waid's JLA year one), it was stupid when they brought In Triumph and it's stupid now. Why did Cyborg NEED to be a founder? Would it have really been so bad to have MM there for the origin and have Cyborg take his place in the time skip? Would his role on the team really be that diminished?

#28 Edited by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

No one should have been replaced. It was stupid when the did it with Black Canary but at least it was tolerable (because we had Mark Waid's JLA year one), it was stupid when they brought In Triumph and it's stupid now. Why did Cyborg NEED to be a founder? Would it have really been so bad to have MM there for the origin and have Cyborg take his place in the time skip? Would his role on the team really be that diminished?

@cameron83 said:

or,or,or,how about cyborg leaves,and martian manhunter stays.....and aquaman,especially aquaman,however,i know we've all heard this,but i like cyborg with the titans....but it's utterly stupid to make him a founding member of the jla

Yes. People worship the Trinity. And when one of those characters is missing, people always say "but XXXX is on the Trinity! He/She needs more respect!"

To a great extent, that kind of thinking also goes along with the characters that found the JLA. "But XXXXXX is a founder! He'She deserves more respect!"

Finally, Marvel and DC have HUNDREDS of minority characters, but people still complain about diversity in comics? Do you know why? It's because the quality of the representation usually isn't great. Minority characters don't play central roles in major events. This is partially because they never get the level of development needed to be popular enough to be central. That's why Black Lightning or Steel didn't take out Darkseid in Final Crisis. The reason for this is White creators will come up with a minority hero during his or her run, and no other writer will use that character prominently after that run. The new writer just comes up with another soon-to-be-forgotten minority hero like Bunker or Skitter or Jetstream or Pantha. When was the last time Mal Duncan did anything important? Or Bumblebee?

By making Cyborg a founder, he's guaranteed to get quality representation and character development. He has to be at the center of major events. He has to be used and referenced by other writers. He has to be a big dog. When movies and games come out, people will expect to see him.

John Stewart could have been the racial minority character, but DC wants to push Hal. Cyborg is one of their most well-known, completely-owned characters. They don't fully own Static or Black Lightning.

#29 Posted by Lvenger (17897 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA: Well if I were in Johns' position, I would have looked at a minority race member or another female member. My top choices in such a regard would include Black Lightning, Black Canary, Hawkgirl (she's on Earth 2 though) and Vixen (she fills both the female and minority race card). If I had ultimate control though I would have liked to see Hawkgirl as a founding member. Another female member to balance out the gender advantage the male heroes have.

#30 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12418 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13: Makes sense I guess. Sad as hell but it makes sense. For once I wish writers could something right without having to fu€£ something else up in order to do so.

#31 Posted by SoA (4678 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lvenger: i like the way u think . would love to see vixen on a team (since JLI is getting the ax ) like u said it would be a win in both the minority and gender circles.

#32 Posted by Metron144 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

@ManMartianhunter said:

i think aquaman should've been replaced seeing as he has a poor comic existence...

uh....have you been reading the new 52 aquaman? Geoff Johns is a genius. I'm actually reading wonder woman AND aquaman.

#33 Posted by Lvenger (17897 posts) - - Show Bio

@SoA: Agreed. If minority membership was an issue at DC, making Vixen a founding member of the League would satisfy both female readers and minority readers.

@Metron144: I think he means in the long run. Aquaman has had his moments of awesomeness but when you compare him to say Superman or Batman, Aquaman hasn't had the best comic book run long term.

#34 Posted by cameron83 (6499 posts) - - Show Bio

or,or,or,how about cyborg leaves,and martian manhunter stays.....and aquaman,especially aquaman,however,i know we've all heard this,but i like cyborg with the titans....but it's utterly stupid to make him a founding member of the jla

#35 Posted by JohnnyWalker (821 posts) - - Show Bio

reahhehehehehehehLLY late to the party bro

#36 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

Cyborg is cooler and more interesting than Vixen, who is really similar to Storm in terms of personality and heritage. Let's give Black Boys an A-List role model to go along with Storm. Black Panther and Luke Cage aren't A-List yet.

#37 Posted by TheCannon (17839 posts) - - Show Bio

It's an insult that they replaced him with Cyborg.

Online
#38 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCannon said:

It's an insult that they replaced him with Cyborg.

sigh

#39 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: Uh, I'm pretty sure the Martian Manhunter's fan base is at least comparable to that of Aquaman. And besides, I thought that it was the New 52 that made Aquaman really popular, so maybe it isn't just that Aquaman is a great character, but that the writers are fantastic?

In my opinion, Martian Manhunter is a great character without the Justice League, Stormwatch, etc. But he really does add a lot to the Justice League, so I'm glad that he'll eventually be joining.

#40 Posted by Ironhawk22 (320 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with the poster who said replace Hal with John, and keep MM. Despite what Dc believes John Stewart is the iconic GL, it showed when the contreversy about Hal being the movie GL. Also Sethysquare the reason John sells less is because he doesn't get that great of a creative team(Peter J. Tomasi is great but his GLC writing lacks compared to Batman & Robin). When Hal lost the ring John should have taken center stage. In my opinion he and Kyle are ten times more interesting then Hal.

#41 Edited by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower said:

@sethysquare: Uh, I'm pretty sure the Martian Manhunter's fan base is at least comparable to that of Aquaman. And besides, I thought that it was the New 52 that made Aquaman really popular, so maybe it isn't just that Aquaman is a great character, but that the writers are fantastic?

In my opinion, Martian Manhunter is a great character without the Justice League, Stormwatch, etc. But he really does add a lot to the Justice League, so I'm glad that he'll eventually be joining.

not exactly.

Aquaman has his own comics for 77 issues in 1994

63 issues in 1962

39 issues in 2003

13 issues in 1991

Also his own solo now that was in the top 10 best selling monthlies for 2 whole months.

He has a very extensive supporting characters like

Aqualad/Tempest - Garth

Aqualad - Jackson Hyde/Kal dur

Aquagirl - Tula

Lagoon Boy

Lori Lemaris

Dolphin

Mera

The Others

and very popular enemies that has appeared in DCU and tv series like

Ocean Master

Black Manta

King Shark

lesser known ones like Fisherman and Scavenger.

Martian Manhunter on the other hand has

1 solo issue that ran for 6 issues in 2006.

No prominent enemies, except for the other martian who appeared on justice league doom whom no one knows a thing about it before he appeared on justice league doom.

also white martians, red martians and whatever colored martians that no one really cares for.

1 supporting character - miss martian.

MM's only edge over Aquaman is that he was a founding member of Justice League in the animated series, but he have always been sidelined as a side character with not much real development, he even left the league halfway.

But to make up for it Aquaman was prominently featured in Batman Brave and the Bold and won the hearts of millions. He was then further made popular by Young Justice which had a few Aquaman/Black Manta/Aqualad centric episodes but there was no Martian Manhunter centric episodes, Miss Martian seemed to be a stand alone character with little to no ties to Martian Manhunter. I associate Miss Martian more to her relationship with Superboy in Young Justice than Martian Manhunter

Aquaman also have several very popular fansites and one which I frequent due to their frequent updates and podcast.

http://www.aquamanshrine.com/

A search on google for both Aquaman and Martian Manhunter can tell. On the first page itself, there isn't any MM fansites but there are already 2-3 Aquaman fansites on the first page.

Aquaman and Martian Manhunter were both featured on Smallville but Aquaman had a much more prominent role.

First 2 picture showed Aquaman in Smallville and he was a recurring character that played a huge role in the series. Those Justice League episode were perhaps one of the most exciting episodes ever.

Aquaman also had a pilot in 2007 that was supposed to be picked up but after WB and UPN merged to be CW, Dawn Ostroff the new president wanted more female centric TV shows (like Veronica Mars, Gossip Girl, 90210, One Tree Hill, A beautiful life, melrose place and etc) so she dropped Aquaman to many fans disappointment. The pilot was later released online and was actually above many fan's expectations (much less could be said about WW pilot). Thankfully Dawn Ostroff is gone.

So my answer is no. Aquaman is actually much more popular than Martian Manhunter. Aquaman is also the most requested character from MK vs DC and Injustice.

#42 Edited by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@Ironhawk22 said:

I agree with the poster who said replace Hal with John, and keep MM. Despite what Dc believes John Stewart is the iconic GL, it showed when the contreversy about Hal being the movie GL. Also Sethysquare the reason John sells less is because he doesn't get that great of a creative team(Peter J. Tomasi is great but his GLC writing lacks compared to Batman & Robin). When Hal lost the ring John should have taken center stage. In my opinion he and Kyle are ten times more interesting then Hal.

John Stewart has not been features prominently in DC for the last 2 decades. I've already written several posts describing why Hal is the most iconic GL. Go read my post on Hal Jordan forums if you are interested.

#43 Posted by gotwillpower (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@sethysquare: I see your point. I guess Aquaman is more popular.

#44 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

@gotwillpower: :)

#45 Posted by labadi (12 posts) - - Show Bio

YES replacing MMH was a great idea. Super overrated character in my opinion.

#46 Posted by Smart_Dork_Dude (2591 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't like MM, but I don't dislike him either so I'm not really missing him much if at all. I feel the same way with Cyborg as I could take him or leave him.

#47 Edited by GreenKnight100 (231 posts) - - Show Bio

I respect Cyborg but him replacing Martian Manhunter? No. Cyborg should go back to the Titans. MM was unique.

#48 Posted by Twentyfive (2747 posts) - - Show Bio

Imagine a world where people are willing to accept green-skinned people before they accept brown-skinned/black people.

Oh, wait a minute...

And all of you saying Cyborg sucks; For the love of God, he has not been given time to prove himself to you people yet. Only 11 issues as a Leaguer. Give DC some time to make you care about him before writing him off like the narrow-minded tools I see here. He was great in the TT book, now you guys act as if he has never done a single thing since his conception.

If DC ever reboots the universe again, they should write in the original 7 founding members of the League, but make the Green Lantern John Stewart instead of Hal Jorda, and we'll see what happens.

I already know. Do you people?

#49 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (5870 posts) - - Show Bio

Manhunter can carry Justice League by himself.

#50 Posted by Captain13 (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

The complaints about Cyborg replacing MMH sound exactly the same as the ones about Black Widow and Hawkeye replacing Hank and Janet in the Avengers. After the movie came out, no one cared. This will just be the same deal. DC needs to give Cyborg a bigger spotlight so that he can win more fans. No one even cared about MMH until he got replaced. No one.

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