@DarkKnightDetective: Batmorrison in allstar
Justice League of America
Team » Justice League of America appears in 3324 issues.
The Justice League (also known as the Justice League of America or the JLA) is a team comprised of the premier heroes of the DC Universe.
Dear Geoff Johns, please take Batman off Justice League
I think the issue is Cyborg is doing all the things Batman could be doing. Maybe someone else could write a JL book where both Batman and Cyborg make a contribution but so far Johns has convinced me that Cyborg should be allowed anywhere near the upcoming Justice League movie.
I would have no problem at all if Batman left the Justice League. Considering some of the covers for Forever Evil, and supposedly one of the JL going rogue, he very well might. Cyborg does all the stuff Batman does except better, save lurking around. Batman should be someone the team calls on in specific situations.
Johns hates Bruce, the only reason he's still alive in New 52 is because he's the best selling character of DC and without him JL sales will be down by half. I want Batman out of the Justice League and out of the hands of Johns, I want him to form a new team consisting of him, Zatanna, MM, Kyle, Flash(if not Barry then Wally), Captain Marvel, Icon, Black Lightning etc.
Sorry, but if anyone should be removed from Johns' Justice League, it's Wonder Woman, a character who Johns butchers with every issue. Batman may be portrayed as less useful than people are used to, but at-least he isn't depicted as a copy of a caricature of the real thing.
Lets just agree that johns JL is not too great an batman & wonderwoman suck in it aquaman too, an lets be serious im not trying to be racist but the only reason cyborgs in JL is to have a black man in it bcuz hez such a random guy to be in JL especially since his whole career hez been in teen titans, Nightwing deserves to be in JL more than cyborg
@outside_85: Agreed still at least Johns doesn't have a personal vendetta against her, but yeah he butchered her character completely, maybe she can lead the BoP and I don't even think she needs to be in a team, she can take down almost any team herself.
No, he should not leave. He should just be written better.
Johns is not writing Batman well because he doesn't seem to get that Batman is not realistic. He's not the Nolan Batman.
It's easy for Batman to seem like a nobody when he's standing next to Superman and Wonder Woman, but it's not hard to make him awesome. Just follow these five guidelines.
1)Batman is always prepared and his training gives him super senses. Orm should not have been able to sneak up on him. No one should.
2)Batman's super power--the thing that makes him stand out next to the other members--is his superhuman level of misdirection. He's the ninja god. He knows that he can't beat the other Justice Leaguers physically so he has a very unique bag of tricks. If you catch his batarang, it's because he wanted you too. That batarang will explode or will cover you with some kind of super-adhesive (You can see what I'm talking about with Arsenal/Red Arrow in Young Justice or Hawkeye in the Avengers). This was touched upon when he used his potassium trick, but it should be expanded upon and made more epic. He can sneak up on anyone. He can intimidate almost anyone. He can disappear on anyone in the blink of an eye. He can read body language and predict his opponents' attacks in hand-to-hand combat.
3)Batman is agile. He should be able to do what Tula did to Cyborg this issue on his enemies.
4)Batman's gadgets shouldn't be underplayed just because Cyborg is the tech guy. Batman can do some things Cyborg can't. He can summon Bats. He has all kinds of vehicles. He has tricky batarangs. He has nets, lines, and bolas. He has a glider-cape. He has contact lenses that can help read people and that can let him see in 360 degrees.. His gloves can analyze chemical substances. He has escape artist equipment. Heck, he even has glow sticks and explosive mines. I could go on and on.
5)Batman is the brains of the team. He should know how to take down big organizations and how to find weaknesses in anything. He's the strategist and detective after all.
I agree with you completely in regards to Batman on any super-powered team. Funny thing is, all the writer had to do was watch the TV show to understand this about him. Best homework assignment EVER!!!
Dear Batman, please take Geoff Johns off Justice League.
Well said. Does anyone know how long a writer is usually on a title? Is it random or is there a set time period?
@sog7dc said:
Geoff johns is a bad person
Yes, yes he is.
@Reignmaker: Indeed, Geoff John's neither likes Batman as a character or seems to understand his place in the DCU. In fact, I'd wager that if Johns could have his way Batman would not be in the book. However, Batman is just too important for sales which is why at the launch of the new 52 he starred in 5 books, was featured in 2 and makes regular guest appearances just about everywhere.
What you've said in the OP I've been saying for years. Almost every time Johns handled the character he wrote him as if he was a petulant child. The first real occurrence I remember was during GL: Rebirth. He had Batman trying to stop Hal (you know, one of those space cops who posses the most powerful weapons in the universe on their finger) from leaving with a batrope. You'd think someone as smart as batman would know that a rope would be ineffective. If it was simply to make a point, then Batman's words would have sufficed. Next he has Hal walk up and cold clock Batman.
No super speed and the aurora is down so apparently no super strength. Hal is able to walk up to one of the most skilled martial artists and physically powerful humans on planet and cold clock him. Right... But wait? What is Batman trying to stop Hal from doing? Why he's trying to stop him from fighting an extra-galactic super powerful giant alien of course! That makes sense. It's not like Batman would see the usefulness of having someone like Jordan around to fight the space monster and maybe wait till later to address his suspicions about him (*<<insert heavy sarcasm here*) Next thing Batman says is that instead utilizing the power of the 5 GLs already engaging the monster, he and the rest of the league should "take out parallax ourselves." The master tactician was just full of bright ideas that day (*eye roll*).
Well, maybe this was just a one time thing and Johns doesn't plan on always writing Bruce as dim-witted, ineffective, and an over all jerk. Let's see what happens next time he get's a hold of the character in Green Lantern vol. 3 #9.
"We're even." Yep. How poetic (bleh). Hal Jordan comes to Batman seeking his help and Batman sucker punches him because he needs to get "even". You know, he could have gone the other way and had Batman be the bigger man and maybe apologize for acting so rashly during the Rebirth event but maintain that he still doesn't quite trust Jordan. But no, instead we get more of Batman acting like an upset child. Also, did you know the gl ring has automatic defenses? That's why you can't shoot a GL in the back of the head when they're not looking. This means Hal purposely lowered his defenses and allowed Batman to hit him (what a swell guy). This also makes Batman an idiot who should have broken his hand. I guess Johns forgets Bruce is suppose to be one of the most intelligent people on the planet or maybe he just thinks Batman likes punching things that can break his hand, I don't know.
Well, since then Geoff has handled Batman a good few times. There was Countdown to Infinite Crisis in which Batman blows off Blue Beetle, his former teammate and colleague which ultimately leads to Blue's demise.
(By the way, thanks for Killing BB Johns)
There was Infinite Crisis itself where Bruce pretty much gets left out. Oh, except for the one scene where he loses his resolve and almost kills someone. Because we all know Bruce isn't used to dealing with pain or loss and his will is so easily broken.
He killed Bruce off in Flashpoint. Honestly though, Batman (Thomas Wayne) to me was the most interesting point of the event. Maybe Geoff doesn't hate Batman, just Bruce......
Lastly I'd like to mention Batman: Earth One. To me this shows us how I think Johns would like to see Batman all the time. Here he's not a super-scientist, or a manhunter, or a master detective. He didn't travel the world and he doesn't have alot of tech or a cool ride. In fact, Earth One Batman is more nerfed than Nolan's Batman. He's basically a street fighter with a few cool toys and some very basic training. John's doesn't like it when Batman does anything to super. He likes to see him get slapped around
and lie in the gutter....
...because to old Geoff, Batman is just some jerk in a suit who doesn't deserve any better.
Hope you enjoyed my rant.
Didn't see this before but man this is so true, this should've been an awesome article.
There is the issue of Batman being a difficult character to write well. If he is not done properly, he sucks and the writer looks like an incompetent hack. And Johns has no talent or originality. He makes simple and big things.
Batman thinks in his best stories, a lot. There need to be multiple moving parts in his selling stories for them to hold up and attract people. Cliches and stereotypes are what killed The Dark Knight series written by David Finch. He makes pretty pictures but had no skill writing a thinking and calculating character. Batman thinks and controls his impulses. If he did not, he would die in minutes against any group of gun toting thugs. Planning, analysis, and tactics are a fundamental part of his character. When that aspect is missing, he is a void.
Geoff has his limits made glaringly plain when he writes street level or mid tier characters, which is why he throws so much hate on a character he is glaringly unfit to write. It is the same with Scott Lobdell.
But, I will honestly say that Wonder Woman is the more violated character. Killing a child was the deepest element of her character in the three years he wrote her in something with his name. And as a fan of WW, that says volumes for what he understands about how she is viewed by her fans.
Both of them need to get out of any League that he is writing.
Hawkman and Catwomam are being done no favors either.
No, he should not leave. He should just be written better.
Johns is not writing Batman well because he doesn't seem to get that Batman is not realistic. He's not the Nolan Batman.
It's easy for Batman to seem like a nobody when he's standing next to Superman and Wonder Woman, but it's not hard to make him awesome. Just follow these five guidelines.
1)Batman is always prepared and his training gives him super senses. Orm should not have been able to sneak up on him. No one should.
2)Batman's super power--the thing that makes him stand out next to the other members--is his superhuman level of misdirection. He's the ninja god. He knows that he can't beat the other Justice Leaguers physically so he has a very unique bag of tricks. If you catch his batarang, it's because he wanted you too. That batarang will explode or will cover you with some kind of super-adhesive (You can see what I'm talking about with Arsenal/Red Arrow in Young Justice or Hawkeye in the Avengers). This was touched upon when he used his potassium trick, but it should be expanded upon and made more epic. He can sneak up on anyone. He can intimidate almost anyone. He can disappear on anyone in the blink of an eye. He can read body language and predict his opponents' attacks in hand-to-hand combat.
3)Batman is agile. He should be able to do what Tula did to Cyborg this issue on his enemies.
4)Batman's gadgets shouldn't be underplayed just because Cyborg is the tech guy. Batman can do some things Cyborg can't. He can summon Bats. He has all kinds of vehicles. He has tricky batarangs. He has nets, lines, and bolas. He has a glider-cape. He has contact lenses that can help read people and that can let him see in 360 degrees.. His gloves can analyze chemical substances. He has escape artist equipment. Heck, he even has glow sticks and explosive mines. I could go on and on.
5)Batman is the brains of the team. He should know how to take down big organizations and how to find weaknesses in anything. He's the strategist and detective after all.
Pretty much why I hate Batman. Fans want Batgod or nothing. There should be ways to write Batman effectively without tripping back into the Invincible Batman nonsense. Super senses? WTF?
No, he should not leave. He should just be written better.
Johns is not writing Batman well because he doesn't seem to get that Batman is not realistic. He's not the Nolan Batman.
It's easy for Batman to seem like a nobody when he's standing next to Superman and Wonder Woman, but it's not hard to make him awesome. Just follow these five guidelines.
1)Batman is always prepared and his training gives him super senses. Orm should not have been able to sneak up on him. No one should.
2)Batman's super power--the thing that makes him stand out next to the other members--is his superhuman level of misdirection. He's the ninja god. He knows that he can't beat the other Justice Leaguers physically so he has a very unique bag of tricks. If you catch his batarang, it's because he wanted you too. That batarang will explode or will cover you with some kind of super-adhesive (You can see what I'm talking about with Arsenal/Red Arrow in Young Justice or Hawkeye in the Avengers). This was touched upon when he used his potassium trick, but it should be expanded upon and made more epic. He can sneak up on anyone. He can intimidate almost anyone. He can disappear on anyone in the blink of an eye. He can read body language and predict his opponents' attacks in hand-to-hand combat.
3)Batman is agile. He should be able to do what Tula did to Cyborg this issue on his enemies.
4)Batman's gadgets shouldn't be underplayed just because Cyborg is the tech guy. Batman can do some things Cyborg can't. He can summon Bats. He has all kinds of vehicles. He has tricky batarangs. He has nets, lines, and bolas. He has a glider-cape. He has contact lenses that can help read people and that can let him see in 360 degrees.. His gloves can analyze chemical substances. He has escape artist equipment. Heck, he even has glow sticks and explosive mines. I could go on and on.
5)Batman is the brains of the team. He should know how to take down big organizations and how to find weaknesses in anything. He's the strategist and detective after all.
Pretty much why I hate Batman. Fans want Batgod or nothing. There should be ways to write Batman effectively without tripping back into the Invincible Batman nonsense. Super senses? WTF?
If he can't keep up, he has no reason to be there. Otherwise, what really separates him from a generic special ops soldier?
The way I described Batman is the way he was written on Bruce Timm's Justice League. No one complained about that.
If he can't keep up, he has no reason to be there. Otherwise, what really separates him from a generic special ops soldier?
The way I described Batman is the way he was written on Bruce Timm's Justice League. No one complained about that.
I just don't understand why batfans need a super powered Batman to be happy.
If he can't keep up, he has no reason to be there. Otherwise, what really separates him from a generic special ops soldier?
The way I described Batman is the way he was written on Bruce Timm's Justice League. No one complained about that.
I just don't understand why batfans need a super powered Batman to be happy.
I'm not even a Bat-fan, dude. From a logical standpoint, a Nolanized Batman doesn't make sense at all when you have a a bunch of guys who can knock down buildings and break the sound barrier with ease--especially with Cyborg doing tech stuff. The only thing you can do to justify him is make him prepared for tough situations, be perceptive, and be stealthy. If he doesn't have those things, he shouldn't be on the team, and everyone wants him on the team. The company is called Detective Comics Entertainment after all.
What use is this guy -
-to this guy in an armageddon scenario?
You need a reason for Batman to be on the team, which is why Superman isn't a super scientist anymore. It's not just with Batman either. In the cartoons, Superman never uses superspeed when Flash is around because they need to make Flash seem special.
Batman is only useful to Superman like this:
@captain13: He doesn't need to be nerfed to Nolan levels but come on, if Batman is going to have super senses, they might as well just admit that he has super powers.
@erik: The Transporter, Jet Li characters, and most action movie heroes do the impossible and are depicted with super senses and reflexes. Who cares?
I obviously care because DC insists that Batman has no powers. You are using characters from other universes that make no claims one way or another anyway.
@erik said:
@erik: The Transporter, Jet Li characters, and most action movie heroes do the impossible and are depicted with super senses and reflexes. Who cares?
I obviously care because DC insists that Batman has no powers. You are using characters from other universes that make no claims one way or another anyway.
Why do you assume that no powers in their universe is the same as no powers in our universe? (When you assume, you make an *** out of you and me. =P)
Clearly their universe has different physics, a different history, different geopolitics, different celebrities, etc.
Do you complain that Green Arrow can take out hundreds of men with guns when he's armed with nothing but a bow and some arrows? Do you complain about the fact that if Batman adhered to our rules the government and many employees of Wayne enterprises would know Wayne is Batman? Do you complain about the fact none of the evidence Batman collects is admissible in our courts? It's called fantasy.
And it's not just DC or just the comics. Black Widow did a lot of superhuman stuff in the Avengers movie, and Hawkeye does superhuman stuff in the Avengers comic all the time.
@captain13: LOL I have no idea why me wanting a more human Batman is getting your panties in such a twist. Even when I say it doesn't have to be as nerfed as Nolan's Batman, you still must rage on. It's both confusing and amusing.
@captain13: LOL I have no idea why me wanting a more human Batman is getting your panties in such a twist. Even when I say it doesn't have to be as nerfed as Nolan's Batman, you still must rage on. It's both confusing and amusing.
Yes, you've really rustled my jimmies. :-7
Yep, I'm getting tired of Johns writing Batman now too. Johns' Batman is basically almost the opposite extreme of Morrison's.
Instead of "Batgod," Johns has turned him into Batgoof. In fact, part of me hopes Johns is going to reveal that Goofy has been masquerading as the New 52 Batman this entire time. It was merely one big cosmic mix up involving Earth 9 and a bunch of other Disney characters.
Alas, one can dream...
Batman doesn't seem like the type of character to emerge him self into a team. Hell I don't even view him as a leader of any sorts thats Clarks job. How I view Batman is the guy on the coms or in the background sneaking around with his own agenda. Johns is Justice league is very odd, in the fact non of the characters have a role to play. Most of the characters get side lined suck as flash and cyborg, only getting small character moments. The only thing we can take out of Johns is run is that Superman and Wonder Woman get together. This pains me to say, but I don't think the problems Batman, but with Johns writing skills.
Batman doesn't seem like the type of character to emerge him self into a team. Hell I don't even view him as a leader of any sorts thats Clarks job. How I view Batman is the guy on the coms or in the background sneaking around with his own agenda. Johns is Justice league is very odd, in the fact non of the characters have a role to play. Most of the characters get side lined suck as flash and cyborg, only getting small character moments. The only thing we can take out of Johns is run is that Superman and Wonder Woman get together. This pains me to say, but I don't think the problems Batman, but with Johns writing skills.
He seems burned out and/or overextended.
@captain13: Ya, his newest arc is fresh but if you truly looked in his run, its full of gimmicks and weird writing choices. His truly better at writing solo characters.
@captain13: LOL I have no idea why me wanting a more human Batman is getting your panties in such a twist. Even when I say it doesn't have to be as nerfed as Nolan's Batman, you still must rage on. It's both confusing and amusing.
Yes, you've really rustled my jimmies. :-7
In any case, I sympathize with those that are frustrated with Batman being written like a non-factor because I don't think that is how he should be written either. I just think writers take it too far when he is written as the Invincible Batman.
Batman doesn't seem like the type of character to emerge him self into a team. Hell I don't even view him as a leader of any sorts thats Clarks job. How I view Batman is the guy on the coms or in the background sneaking around with his own agenda. Johns is Justice league is very odd, in the fact non of the characters have a role to play. Most of the characters get side lined suck as flash and cyborg, only getting small character moments. The only thing we can take out of Johns is run is that Superman and Wonder Woman get together. This pains me to say, but I don't think the problems Batman, but with Johns writing skills.
He seems burned out and/or overextended.
By the sound of things, Johns is more occupied with getting stuff onto the small screen. If you follow him on twitter you might have noticed that nearly all he posts on it is related to either Arrow, Gotham and now Constantine, once in a blue moon he posts something related to comics, but mostly stuff that DC, Jim Lee, Dan Didio and a bunch of others also post.
Also there is the rumor that Diane Nelson asked Johns to spread his attention to other things than comics, apparently since being Chief Creative Officer doesn't stop at comics.
@outside_85: His a industry giant, I would imagine that being a constant battle, seeing that comics and nerd culture is more mainstream.
Batman doesn't seem like the type of character to emerge him self into a team. Hell I don't even view him as a leader of any sorts thats Clarks job. How I view Batman is the guy on the coms or in the background sneaking around with his own agenda. Johns is Justice league is very odd, in the fact non of the characters have a role to play. Most of the characters get side lined suck as flash and cyborg, only getting small character moments. The only thing we can take out of Johns is run is that Superman and Wonder Woman get together. This pains me to say, but I don't think the problems Batman, but with Johns writing skills.
He seems burned out and/or overextended.
By the sound of things, Johns is more occupied with getting stuff onto the small screen. If you follow him on twitter you might have noticed that nearly all he posts on it is related to either Arrow, Gotham and now Constantine, once in a blue moon he posts something related to comics, but mostly stuff that DC, Jim Lee, Dan Didio and a bunch of others also post.
Also there is the rumor that Diane Nelson asked Johns to spread his attention to other things than comics, apparently since being Chief Creative Officer doesn't stop at comics.
Sounds like he shouldn't be writing any flagship titles then. It seems irresponsible. No one can do everything, and it shows.
@captain13: He should take on a smaller solo book, not a team book. I gotta say his run on Justice league of america was legendary.
@erik: In any case, I sympathize with those that are frustrated with Batman being written like a non-factor because I don't think that is how he should be written either. I just think writers take it too far when he is written as the Invincible Batman.
Maybe it's just me but I don't even see Batman being shown as non factor. I just think they're being more balanced with the League members without pushing one too much. I think fans readers are so use to Batman being the be all end all of every situation that when he isn't they think they are not showing Batman right.
@erik: In any case, I sympathize with those that are frustrated with Batman being written like a non-factor because I don't think that is how he should be written either. I just think writers take it too far when he is written as the Invincible Batman.
Maybe it's just me but I don't even see Batman being shown as non factor. I just think they're being more balanced with the League members without pushing one too much. I think fans readers are so use to Batman being the be all end all of every situation that when he isn't they think they are not showing Batman right.
I can definitely agree with that.
I bet it doesn't hurt as much as Paul Cornell To Wolverine.
Please stop hurting me.
@erik: I'm sorry!
@life_without_progress: not in the New 42 at least.
@onemoreposter: HALLUALAUH!
What do you guys think about post forever JL.JL will have 3 gadget users I wonder how he use Cap Cold
If you caught Batman's damn batarang, it's because he wanted you to! Plans over plans b#tch.
In Forever Evil, when Captain Cold said he thought Batman wasn't frightening in the light, my first thought was just "F**k You Johns", Captain Cold would soil himself if Flash just mentioned Batman. Batman has been a complete joke in Forever Evil, his contingencies for the Justice League were pathetic and half-assed guesswork. The whole of Forever Evil has been a real low point for John's writing of Bats I feel (besides him punching Bizarro out with the K-ring).
As a late update to this, I actually dropped Justice League just prior to Trinity War starting. Budget got tight and I just couldn't justify paying full price for Geoff Johns, let alone a multi-issue event. Might come back and catch up for the sake of continuity, but it doesn't sound like his characterization of Batman and others has improved any in my absence.
By the way, The Manhattan Projects is a good read.
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