@sideburnguru: these are good points. I went to a highschool with a similar situation from 90 to 94, when books went from $1 to $1.75 in those 4 years. It was still some what expensive to get all the titles you wanted, but not like today. Also the books were not close to the quality they are right now either. They were news print so they sucked. The trades had better paper in them then the singles. I didn't have any friends that read comics tho. I was with the party crowd, we played sports, we got into a lot of street fights. We were always aroung girls. I used get ball busted for reading comics, but I never cared because if anyone got to loud I just smacked the shit out of them. Now my friends that I still talk to in highschool ask to borrow my comics from time to time since they seen so many movies and are familiar with the characters. I love it when one of my friends wants to borrow a trade and I get to ask them "How old are you?" they get the point. I've actually turned a few of thim on coimcs and they tell me how they wished they'd been collecting for 25 years like I have. Plus it's easier to jump into a title now. I didn't have wiki or Comicvine to give me a complete history on pretty much any character ever created. I've been reading Avenger titles sine Bendis just began writing them in 99 or 2000 and I've only just now started reading my first Avengers story with Ultron or Kang in it. I know everything there is to know about the 2 characters tho because of these sites, so I've told my friends if they ever read about something or someone and they don't know who they are and it confuses the story for them, just look them up, and they do.

I actually learned a lot about comics thru watching cartoons like Batman TAS, Superman TAS, Spider-Man. Not the crapy 90's show tho. I hated it.

I'll definitely admit that adults do the purchasing. Most 7-year old kids don't buy very much of anything for themselves these days. I would propose most 14-year old kids don't either. However, somehow these kids still manage to get their mitts on $60 video games (not just one or two either). I imagine if it were a priority they would be able to get comic books also.

@jamdamage Good stuff. I wasn't really in the "FOOTBALL SPORTS" crowd. I played basketball and hockey alot, but I still didn't hang out with the sports crowd. I was just the neturally nice guy to everyone, for every group I guess.

Funny enough, I know a few people from my elementary school [ was in a different district] are now hooked on anime/manga. I can't get into it, but apparently that's big for mostly every age group. Which doesn't make sense, because when pricing that stuff, it's just as expensive if not more.

@reignmaker: How is that any different? Raising a child that is not your own shouldn't be any different than raising a child that is. Are you saying adoptive or foster parent are supposedly having a different perspective than someone who is raising his own. But sorry raising child is always the same, no matter if it's a sibling, orphan or blood or non-blood son or daughter. You are really not making any sense, by the way, I had to raise my youngest brother fully from a baby to young adult and it is tough But, I of one do not think it will be any different other than the personality of child be any different to raise a child of my own.

While I appreciate to post to one of our articles, we actually have more updated data and on a global scale for comic fans. This was posted at the beginning of the month, http://graphicpolicy.com/2013/06/01/facebook-fandom-spotlight-comic-fans-612013-massive-growth-edition/

I know a lot of folks have doubts about this data, but I've done this type of research using different methods, databroker, sruvey and facebook, looking at the same audience, and the answers line up pretty well adding credence it's not too off and gives a good general idea.

But again, thanks for the link!

Brett

Oh they definitely aren't for kids. Even when I was younger I didn't feel like most comics were for me. I got into comics through the cartoon shows and graduated to comics. And of course 90% of the titles in the DCnU are very adult themed. I would recommend maybe two books (Flash and Aquaman) to anyone under 15

Comics were always and will always be for kids. I highly doubt any adult would be interested in fictional characters, more specifically superheroes unless they're retarded or immature.

@akbogert: I'm not saying it's not offensive; in fact, I'm pretty sure that's the reaction that Geoff and co are looking to elicit. It's cheap and ridiculous too. There better be a big payoff in this for Selina in the next issue.

@iceslick: Well, I don't know about should...but it isn't the same. It just isn't. There's not much more to say than that. If I were to venture a guess, I'd say most of it has to do with age differences and varying circumstances...not blood. You'll just have to discover it for yourself.

@chipsnopotatoes: Oh, I agree. I just thought your comment was interesting because I've thought about older cartoons like that and they actually are shockingly violent -- just not bloody. As I get older, Looney Tunes seems more disturbing. But comparatively it's refreshingly whitewashed.

This would be funnier if there weren't so many people who actually believe it.

Here's my question: were comics ever really for kids? I look back at early comic strips and the messages were quite political, not really an avenue for children. And then, there was the Golden Age of comics where the content included Superman threatening a man's life with a firearm and tons of derogatory terms and sexism - however, that was considered the norm for society back in the 40s and 50s, whereas they would be obscenely politically incorrect today. Ever since Watchmen and Frank Miller's The Dark Knight Returns, I think comics have taken a far more gritty and unapologetic tone with what heroes face and how they deal with it.

Manga is another topic entirely because what Japan considers ok for younger teens and what we consider are quite different. Japan, to a point, doesn't really think censorship is necessary. I look at manga like Gantz, Highschool of the Dead, and Freezing and my 21 year old self feels emotionally taxed at times - but it's relatively "normal" for 15-16 year olds in Japan.

Now, cartoons were meant for children. From old Disney to the Looney Toons to Adventure Time, cartoons are a medium of entertainment geared towards children. However, I don't think comics share that same orientation.

@babs-Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I won't let my 14 year old daughter read most of the books I pick up. She's a huge fan of Batman but there is no way most of what happens in those books is appropriate. She does like the original and second Young Justice series, the Teen Titans television tie in books anda lot of Manga. But other than in Li'l Gotham she usually only gets to see her favorite character in the occasional guest feature in another book.

I don't see the need for such graphic portrayals of violence. I can catch that kind of thing in the news. I don't necessarily need it in my entertainment.

Superhero comics are adult oriented period! Super men and women with bodies and muscles that there human counterparts would kill for, violence that rival the goriest NC-17 movie. There used to be a Comic Code Authority in effect but, artists and writers figured a way around them back in the day. Now, the attitude seems to be 'who cares,' let's kill Superman, and bring him back seven ways to Sunday. COMIC BOOKS ARE RULED BY THE DOLLAR, NOT BY DECENCY. IF YOU DON'T BELIEVE THAT, THEN HOP THE NEXT SHIP TO THE PLANET NALTOR, SIT DOWN, HAVE A SANDWICH AND A PIECE OF PIE.

When I got into comics at age 10 in the late 70s I didn't have a sense of kiddie comics or adult comics. There were just comics. And you could pick up avengers, JLA , etc and it didn't matter. I was not allowed to buy things like Heavy Metal magazine. That's what my folks considered adult. I do think older kids can still pick up some comics but even now as an adult I had issues with the graphic death in this issue.

Really great article, Brett. Thanks for sharing!

I got "back into comics" 2-3 years ago, mostly because of Scott Snyder's work and Ed Brubaker's work on Fatale, which clearly is not intended for a young audience. It was the first time I consistently read monthly books since I was 11 years old, for the Death of Superman stuff.

Since getting back into some of this and hearing more about the big events in the medium, I bought Spider-Man 700....and couldn't get into it. I found it very campy, and not written in a mature enough style that I could identify with, like a Snyder or Brubaker.

That said, I could see how something like Spider-Man, and Superior Spider-Man that followed, would have a broader appeal than some of Snyder's work, and felt more like the books I read almost 20 years ago.

It seems that there are still a variety of titles that can appeal to a variety of audiences, and the most successful (best-selling) ones embrace a mass-appeal approach, while world-class writing that isn't necessarily for kids can also sell very well.

Dude you gotta stop them. Their kids are most likely being exposed to inappropriate content inside the comics like excessive violence and possibly sex.

What do you consider a kid ? cause 16 is a kid to me :D I think it's up to the parent, a teen book is a teen book, a child under seven maybe shouldn't see it, regardless if it's Batman or Ghost Rider. There are things they can read until they reach an age where you as a parent think it's right.

Also kids today aren't as desensitized by violence as we were. We had things like G.I Joe, He Man and the like. Kids now have Dora, which is good in many ways,Yet I have a problem that she asks not to be robbed, which would never work in the real world. "Mugger no mugging, Mugger no mugging" :P

Good article

There is also Kaboom! Which focuses alot of its efforts to telling kids comics like Adventure Time, Peanuts, Garfield, one our greatest losses was Darkwing Duck.

Archie Comics is more than just archie, there is Sonic the Hedgehog and Megaman. 2 great series that kids or early teens could get into.

Bongo has great kids titles like Simpsons and Bart Simpson comics. not sure on futurama that maybe more for 14+

Comic Books Have targeted adults since the silver age.

Comics are not still for kids. Not at all. Plus, considering the level of violence to be found in most comics, T+ should stand for a lot higher than 12 and up - definitely.

Speaking specifically to the violence, I would say it's a bit much and I'm far from a over zealous censoring person. The idea these books are aimed at kids is just unfathomable to me.

@turoksonofstone said:

Today though, who are the primary target? I think an intense focus on primarily catering to older readers is a more modern phenomenon than the Silver Age.

Comics are for adults and honestly as a kid I didn't even like the child oriented comics such as Batman Adventures and Tiny Toons. I was reading LOBO back when I was in the 1st grade.

Whoa-kay then, after reading every comment here (and agreeing with a lot of the points), I just have one question for all of you---

Anyone going to bring this subject up at the major DC or Marvel or Dark Horse panels at San Diego this year?

With all the fanboys I've come across all these years? I'd say it's definitely for "children".

Are kids even into comics anymore? I don't know any kids who are into comics, because there's no place to buy comics anymore unless you go hunting for one of the few remaining stores. Back in the day you can go to a drug store, the grocery store, Walmart, and other stores. They had at least two or three racks of comics with the big names like Batman, Superman, Spider-man, and the like in them. Now a days there's none of that. Hell you can't even go into a book store (and those are disappearing just as fast) and find single issues of comics.

Due to the issue of not being able to find comics without adult assistance the # of kids buying comics has fallen off to such an extreme. Now a days kids get their superhero rocks off by watching cartoons, playing video games, and seeing superhero movies. The days of going out and buying a comic are dead and gone for most kids. The only people who still do it are getting older and older. When we die the comic industry as we know it will too.

In my opinion, comics nowadays aren't for kids anymore but that's not due to the violence but to the complex stories. Comic arcs don't wrap up in one comic anymore but in like 12 or more and i guess that would be hard for a kid of 7 years to undrestand, i guess. However for a teen (13+) those stories are understandable.

Now to the point of violence: While reading this article i constantly had to think of your countries (USA) obsession with guns and war. All the masacres happening through the country, seeing kids on shooting ranges, little girls getting small pink fully functional hunting rifles etc. To me that's the kind of double standards that the US love so much. Keeping violence banned from the media but everyone needs guns to survive...

I think that nearly every 13 year old will have seen worse things than a stylized headshot in a comic and it won't make him a mass murderer. If something does, it's your double standards.

To wrap it up, i don't think that this particular scene or violence in coimcs is a reason, that comics aren't for teens anymore.

Sorry for my bad english, but as an Austrian i am not a native speaker.

I think it's pretty well known that the majority of superhero comics are being written for adults, and let's face it: especially with DC Comics, there has been a revolving door on death that makes any death, "Ho-hum, they'll be back in a year." So if you're going to write/draw a death for the jaded 18-45 crowd, you're going to have to be on panel to make it believable. Even then though, look at Ted Kord - shot in the head on panel, but then brought back through time travel in Booster Gold, until Ted sacrificed himself again. There's always a way to undo a comic death - even on panel death.

Is it too graphic though? I say no. It's surprising, because the Big Two don't usually show that kind of thing, and because it's a static image. You can linger on that blood from the head as long as you want to (or as long as it takes for the shock to pass) - it's not like a movie, where the shot happens in real time and is done. I say it's not too graphic though, because in the context of the real world, kids have seen worse. What's a fictional death? They've seen more in first person shooter games.

Today's primary target audience..Hard to say with comics properties being so mainstream today. Marvel is targeting it's existing audience regardless of age and the occasional new reader that comes along which seems O.K. DC is a mess on the other hand they were trying to target a younger audience and it doesn't seem to be going well IMO. I believe they may have alienated many of the Older DC fans. Marvel and DC are just test-marketers and tools for the USA's top two media companies so comics are just part of drawing in the true target audience the any age twenty dollar a head Film-Goer.

And here we are in the Hollywood Age of Comics©.

sigh.

Mainsream supercomics aren't really written for kids in kind, hence the Teen and higher ratings like in Manga. That's why comic companies do Kid comics based on their various cartoon shows, so the kids can read Spidey, without seeing him breaking arms and threatening to kill people

I've always interpreted it this way:

Mainstream superhero comics aren't necessarily written for kids or teens, they're written for fans - regardless of the age group. Their target audience isn't based on demographics of age, it's based more on the niche fan community of comics.

@hawkguy: i totally agree with you

Only comic books on cartoons or just joke books are for kids while each book from the big heroes and even Spider-Man isn't for kids anymore.

Kids are part of the demographic but no, the majority of the top-sellers are not (in my opinion) designed for small readers. Or at least I wouldn't let them pick up certain issues until they grow a bit. On most of these books the storytelling is a little too deep for young kids that simply want to read an action-adventure story.

I paraphrase what Paul Levitz said in an episode on the History Channel some years back, that while comics may have been the thing for kids of olden days, they are almost completely exclusive to adults nowadays. No, the market is geared toward the young adult readership audience (18-30) and therefore the content will be as violent or as graphic as they demand it, something definitely not geared for the entertainment of children. Its not just artistic content but also the language too...the language of comics writing is far more sophisticated now than it once was, something that would fly over the head's of today's kids. Nope, comics haven't been mainly for kids for some time, though some books for their age group still no doubt exist.

Over here in Ireland, a kid's comics needs a bribe... I mean a free gift in order to get kids to buy them. While things like the Collector Editions don't.

I think maybe you're underestimating 12 year olds, as people often do. There's no 12 year old who hasn't seen a bullet to the head in some media or another. You can say that's not okay, and I might even agree with you, however there's no ignoring the fact that this is relatively standard for entertainment. And I feel like trying to say that 12 year olds need protecting from this is symptomatic of a misunderstanding of 12 year olds. Sort of like how PG-13 movies can't have boobs in them, because that would obviously be traumatizing to a 13 year old boy.

that Catwoman scene isn't anywhere near as bad as your making out to be, it's perfectly fine for pepole within the age rating to read it. Hell I was reading Swamp Thing when I was 12.

well during their time comics were 'boom' 'pow' and pretty pictures mostly.
But i guess when a kid of a comic book reader would pick up one. Those parents would know better. i think

man i just wish it was the campy 40s tales

I have to say itagain, but when I was a kid and started reading comics, I started with the dark and violent comics, like Spawn, Batman and other stuff. One of the first Batman arcs I was reading back then was the one with Black Mask by Doug Moench. That also was not written with a 9 year old in mind and that was why I loved it.

Also, I have to admit, if the main books I am currently reading would all be toned down for kids (dark books, like Batman, Batman and Robin etc.) I would stop reading.

Sure, there are books that work as all ages, even for me, like Tiny Titans, or that Billy Batson Shazam book, but those are exceptions.

I am all for DC doing a bigger kid friendly comic line to get in the r eally young readers, but they shouldn't forget that kids of a certain age like "mature" comics, because they aren't being pandered to. Thats why I loved Batman the most, even when I was a kid. The stuff I read with him back then, didn't felt like it was for kids. It was a real dramatic story and THAT made me a fan!

I'm gonna talk just about Marvel 'cause I'm not reading any DC book right now, but for Marvel... well, you have a lot of teenage friendly books. Series like Ultimate Comics Spider-Man (wich, by the way, is AWESOME) or All New X-Men are great for young readers, and I stop reading Wolverine and The X-Men but that was a good one too.

And about that scene... well, I don't see a problem with that. I haven't read the book but you can tell (just by who's dying) that that scene is ment to be shocking, and sometimes being shocking means being explicit. Nobody complained when the Joker murdered Jason Todd with a crowbar, and that was even worse than this, I mean, ok, you didn't actually see the Joker hitting him with the crowbar, but, dude, HE KILLED HIM WITH A CROWBAR: http://bmj2k.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/db2.jpg

And let's not talk about that one time when Hank Pym tried to killed himself (wich, by the way, for me is way worse than Catwoman's death): http://ifanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/tumblr_l8f9ta6XOa1qaobevo1_400.jpg yeah, he was stopped in the end, but it's a hero trying to commit suicide, wich is way worse (in my opinion) than a villain killing Catwoman. Or what about that one time Harry Osborn became a drug addict? Or when Storm stabbed Calisto to death (even if she didn't killed her because of marauder's healer she said she was trying to kill her)? Or what about the origin of Cloak and Dagger (wich appeared in a Spider-Man comic and was about adult people DRUGING KIDS)?

What I mean is that comics have always treated the readers as adults, or at least, as young people smart enough to understand adult situations, even if that meant to be a bit explicit sometimes. Those adult themes were always there, and that's one of the greatest things about comics, they show us (or at least they show me) things that I couldn't see in other places, and they never treated me as a little kid, even if they were about costume heroes fighting evil villains.

sorry for my bad english, I'm spanish, this is not my language. I always try my best though.

While I don't really have an answer to this question I think that the Teen rating for that book should have been for adults. I grew up reading comics hear and there and never saw something that graphic had this been a movie it wouldn't be PG-13. While the writers shouldn't have to dilute their stories I do believe they should be conscious of their aimed rating, and not forget about the young readers who will read the book.

For as long as I can remember there's always been violence & death in the comics that I have bought starting from the late '80's, early 90's. Be it Marvel, DC or Tex Willer. Be it Tarzan or Indiana Jones or The Phantom. And I can tell you kids read all of these titles back in my youth at least. The only exception I can think of is Donald Duck. You hardly see characters die in cartoons nowadays as a comparison.

A whole different matter are titles like Spawn that are clearly full of graphic violence and suggestive themes. I read that title as a little kid and while it didn't have a bad effect on me, most of the stuff in there shocked me and still does.

What kid can afford to follow comics? In the UK the price conversion very neary consists of taking the dollar sign and replacing it with a £. There's been plenty of months where I could easily put down £100 across single issues alone without looking at any trades I wanted.

This is not just the case with US comics either; long running 2000 AD has grown up in term of content over the years with it's readership and it's not just the content either - I'm sure the £2.35 every week will put many kids off it. Thats over £10 a month compared to £4 a month in the nineties.

Comics haven't been for children for a long time now. I'm pretty sure that the comic industry is targeting people in their teens in up.

No, for the most part.

However, I don't know who DC comics are being written for these days anyway.