Aquaman not cool enough for the Movie?

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#1 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

Wait, he sold more comics that any person during a time and since the whole 52 he became the biggest badass in DC.

But Waner want him only in a cameo and a small one.

I want to punch some one in the face because of this.

#2 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (12592 posts) - - Show Bio

i think they just cant think of a way to uniquely and effectively utilize him.

#3 Edited by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman should be the breakthrough character of the film. Showing everyone who is boss.

#4 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

The movie should only have 5 characters in it to promote character development and to allow every character to get a great deal of screen time. The Avengers had lead in films and could only manage 5 characters 95% of the film. Hawkeye was a glorified cameo.

While I like Aquaman, he is not a Top 5 character. These guys are:

(Epic theme music)

Save Arthur for the sequel. If they try to fit in too many characters, it will be a bad movie, which will ruin the future of all DC movies.

@avenging_x_bolt said:

i think they just cant think of a way to uniquely and effectively utilize him.

And this ^^^^

#5 Posted by BlackWind (5663 posts) - - Show Bio

I completely agree with Outlaw Renegade. Save Arthur for a sequel. If they do that, as well as show the audience that we aren't dealing with the Aquaman from the 70s and show the audience that Aquaman is a power player, it'll have more impact. Because no one needs it more than him.

#6 Posted by sinestro_GL (3067 posts) - - Show Bio

Not. Good. Enough.

The film is Aquaman's chance, once and for all, to dispel the ludicrous reputation that he has. the general public have a stupid misconception about Aquaman (not Namor mind you - I doubt non-comic readers would have even heard of him). The film, if done right, can give Aquaman the reputation he deserves as one of the founders of the greatest comic book team ever.

#7 Posted by trebean (637 posts) - - Show Bio

Erm, when was this announced?

#8 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: So we should take Hal Jordan out and Aquaman out for a less famous character, just because a cartoon put him as the GL of the JLA.

John Stewart is less famous that Hal an Arthur, for the same it would need more character development to explain him, if not it coould be Heimdall the random black guy that the movie has so people dont say its a racist movie, besides it looks WB loves Cyborg and want him in the movie, what is bullcrap.

John would need more character development that Hal or Arthur, main reason, most of people dont know there is many Green Lanterns, not only that putting him in this movie reduce his chance to be in the GL movies and him never being seen as a stand alone character.

Also if you have Batman and Superman in a movie, there is no chance people would even care who the rest of the team is, besides if they need Aquaman look good, putting him in the sequel will make him look like a second rate character.

Also, Hulk was a cameo too, so it was the Captain America, Ironman and the rest, the movie was about Black Widow who was the stealth protagonist of the movie, you could notice Joss Whedom ultra feminist bullcrap all over the movie and how he pretty much over powered her and did everything to make her look better that the rest, heck she even saves the day, they put the Ironman scene so no one else notice Whedom fails at making strong male characters, the guy have some daddy problems that amazed me.

The guy should work backwards Cameroon, who made strong female characters by writting them as men, Whedom should write his male characters as females so he could beat this problem.

Also 5 main character is too many main characters, it would be better to have 2 and the rest of the team as backup, look at X Men first class it had a better character development that Avengers because dont try to have to many main protagonist, also its going to be a trilogy so they could base every movie in different characters as the main characters, also its the best way to make a JL movie that is not World Finest and their Superfriends.

#9 Posted by SideburnGuru (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

I side with the people who say Aquaman NEEDS this appearance.

We need to see him in media, where he isn't totally overlooked. Show this guy's true abilities.

I hate this idea for waiting for the sequel. Completely hate and disagree it. I really do hope we see Arthur in the movie because it should change the claim he's a useless character.

#10 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade: So we should take Hal Jordan out and Aquaman out for a less famous character, just because a cartoon put him as the GL of the JLA.

John Stewart is less famous that Hal an Arthur, for the same it would need more character development to explain him, if not it coould be Heimdall the random black guy that the movie has so people dont say its a racist movie, besides it looks WB loves Cyborg and want him in the movie, what is bullcrap.

John would need more character development that Hal or Arthur, main reason, most of people dont know there is many Green Lanterns, not only that putting him in this movie reduce his chance to be in the GL movies and him never being seen as a stand alone character.

Also if you have Batman and Superman in a movie, there is no chance people would even care who the rest of the team is, besides if they need Aquaman look good, putting him in the sequel will make him look like a second rate character.

Also, Hulk was a cameo too, so it was the Captain America, Ironman and the rest, the movie was about Black Widow who was the stealth protagonist of the movie, you could notice Joss Whedom ultra feminist bullcrap all over the movie and how he pretty much over powered her and did everything to make her look better that the rest, heck she even saves the day, they put the Ironman scene so no one else notice Whedom fails at making strong male characters, the guy have some daddy problems that amazed me.

The guy should work backwards Cameroon, who made strong female characters by writting them as men, Whedom should write his male characters as females so he could beat this problem.

Also 5 main character is too many main characters, it would be better to have 2 and the rest of the team as backup, look at X Men first class it had a better character development that Avengers because dont try to have to many main protagonist, also its going to be a trilogy so they could base every movie in different characters as the main characters, also its the best way to make a JL movie that is not World Finest and their Superfriends.

John Stewart, I'd argue, is more widely recognized as Green Lantern than Hal Jordan. JL/JLU was an extremely popular cartoon, in fact when the GL movie came out, many were whining on Twitter and accusing Hollywood of white-washing Green Lantern, not knowing that Hal Jordan was the original GL. I'd say that Stewart is a better move for the team, and infinitely more interesting than Cyborg if you're going for diversity. And the point of a JL movie would be showcasing the entire team, not just focusing on Superman & Batman (a bad habit that DC has had since the beginning).

Also, not to throw the entire discussion off-topic, but your Avengers analysis seems off. I've never viewed Whedon as an 'ultra-feminist', he just wants to have strong female characters, and I applaud him for that. And it never seemed as though she was 'better than the rest'. Each character had a time to shine - Widow had her interrogation and closing the portal. We see IM stopping the nuke and saving the Helicarrier, Hulk destroying the Leviathan, Cap leading the team etc. In fact, Captain America and Iron Man both have more screen-time than Widow. If you think that Whedon has never written strong male characters, you must not have read his Cyclops in Astonishing X-Men. Also is there really a need to accuse him of having 'daddy issues'?

And on that note, I found that to be one of the major problems that X-Men: First Class had. In a movie with a title that suggested that it's focus was the first class of the X-Men, instead we get Charles & Magneto + the X-Men, much like how the X-Men Trilogy was 'Wolverine and the X-Men'. You can't just bank the entire JL movie on the success of the World's Finest, it negates the entire point of a movie about a superhero team.

#11 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: You know there was a plan to make this movie wihout Superman and Batman people hated it, they evn hated the pilot for the crappy tv show, again Batman and Superman where out of the show, people is obssesed with this two, that some acartoon put him as the GL dont mean most of people think he is, besides Twiter and facebook is the place where all the stupid people on earth go to be stupid.

His strong female character are made by making men look bad, mostly fathers or father figures.

Buffy's dad rarely ever appeared on the show, Angel's dad had little to no respect for him, Simon and River's dad was extremely apathetic about his kids, and Wesley's dad was estranged from his son.

Could explain what he did to Boyd in Dollhouse. I mean when killing off a character is not enough but to pretty much take a flame thrower to Echo's and BoydsFather - Daughter dynamic when your at it.

angel was his best father and he still sucked as one.

Not only that, he is pretty much the father of Summer Glau and Eliza Dushku, he adopted 2 girls as daugthers in his mind, not only any girls, but the girls he made the most dangerous and agressive ones.

Most of his strong male characters are pretty much him.

I am not the only person that notice this, or the fact he likes feets.

Black Widow is the main protagonist of Avengers:

She is the only one with a romantic subplot.

Hawkeye is her damsel in distress(You see he made her look good, by making this guy look really bad).

She gets more character development that the rest.

She has stronger character shield that the other characters.

She is the one that saves the earth by the fact she closes the door, what means they can keep coming in to earth, even if Ironman destroyed the ship, they would still be in problem because Thanos or others could go inside and attack earth.

Stealt Protagonist are made so people dont notice who was the star, Prometheus had the problem people watched the dumbass girl all the movie and not David, who was the real protagonist of the movie, having more screen time dont mean you care more, Darth Vader was only 12 minutes on screen in the Original Star Wars, Hannibal Lecter also was like 15 minutes on his first movie.

Also, Avengers gets into this because people overlooks all the flaws it had and belive its the perfect example of how the JL movie should be, to my horror.

And when i say i want World Finest and their friends?, i want the first movie to be based on Aquaman and Wonder Woman, the Second on GL and Flash then you get Superman and Batman, since there is no way this movies are not going to have Superman vs Batman punching each other, is better if you build this fight to the third movie and explains how Batman can even try to do this.

#12 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark said:
@deathpoolthet1000 said:

@outlawrenegade: So we should take Hal Jordan out and Aquaman out for a less famous character, just because a cartoon put him as the GL of the JLA.

John Stewart is less famous that Hal an Arthur, for the same it would need more character development to explain him, if not it coould be Heimdall the random black guy that the movie has so people dont say its a racist movie, besides it looks WB loves Cyborg and want him in the movie, what is bullcrap.

John would need more character development that Hal or Arthur, main reason, most of people dont know there is many Green Lanterns, not only that putting him in this movie reduce his chance to be in the GL movies and him never being seen as a stand alone character.

Also if you have Batman and Superman in a movie, there is no chance people would even care who the rest of the team is, besides if they need Aquaman look good, putting him in the sequel will make him look like a second rate character.

Also, Hulk was a cameo too, so it was the Captain America, Ironman and the rest, the movie was about Black Widow who was the stealth protagonist of the movie, you could notice Joss Whedom ultra feminist bullcrap all over the movie and how he pretty much over powered her and did everything to make her look better that the rest, heck she even saves the day, they put the Ironman scene so no one else notice Whedom fails at making strong male characters, the guy have some daddy problems that amazed me.

The guy should work backwards Cameroon, who made strong female characters by writting them as men, Whedom should write his male characters as females so he could beat this problem.

Also 5 main character is too many main characters, it would be better to have 2 and the rest of the team as backup, look at X Men first class it had a better character development that Avengers because dont try to have to many main protagonist, also its going to be a trilogy so they could base every movie in different characters as the main characters, also its the best way to make a JL movie that is not World Finest and their Superfriends.

John Stewart, I'd argue, is more widely recognized as Green Lantern than Hal Jordan. JL/JLU was an extremely popular cartoon, in fact when the GL movie came out, many were whining on Twitter and accusing Hollywood of white-washing Green Lantern, not knowing that Hal Jordan was the original GL. I'd say that Stewart is a better move for the team, and infinitely more interesting than Cyborg if you're going for diversity. And the point of a JL movie would be showcasing the entire team, not just focusing on Superman & Batman (a bad habit that DC has had since the beginning).

Also, not to throw the entire discussion off-topic, but your Avengers analysis seems off. I've never viewed Whedon as an 'ultra-feminist', he just wants to have strong female characters, and I applaud him for that. And it never seemed as though she was 'better than the rest'. Each character had a time to shine - Widow had her interrogation and closing the portal. We see IM stopping the nuke and saving the Helicarrier, Hulk destroying the Leviathan, Cap leading the team etc. In fact, Captain America and Iron Man both have more screen-time than Widow. If you think that Whedon has never written strong male characters, you must not have read his Cyclops in Astonishing X-Men. Also is there really a need to accuse him of having 'daddy issues'?

And on that note, I found that to be one of the major problems that X-Men: First Class had. In a movie with a title that suggested that it's focus was the first class of the X-Men, instead we get Charles & Magneto + the X-Men, much like how the X-Men Trilogy was 'Wolverine and the X-Men'. You can't just bank the entire JL movie on the success of the World's Finest, it negates the entire point of a movie about a superhero team.

#13 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio
@outlawrenegade said:

@veshark said:
@deathpoolthet1000 said:

@outlawrenegade: So we should take Hal Jordan out and Aquaman out for a less famous character, just because a cartoon put him as the GL of the JLA.

John Stewart is less famous that Hal an Arthur, for the same it would need more character development to explain him, if not it coould be Heimdall the random black guy that the movie has so people dont say its a racist movie, besides it looks WB loves Cyborg and want him in the movie, what is bullcrap.

John would need more character development that Hal or Arthur, main reason, most of people dont know there is many Green Lanterns, not only that putting him in this movie reduce his chance to be in the GL movies and him never being seen as a stand alone character.

Also if you have Batman and Superman in a movie, there is no chance people would even care who the rest of the team is, besides if they need Aquaman look good, putting him in the sequel will make him look like a second rate character.

Also, Hulk was a cameo too, so it was the Captain America, Ironman and the rest, the movie was about Black Widow who was the stealth protagonist of the movie, you could notice Joss Whedom ultra feminist bullcrap all over the movie and how he pretty much over powered her and did everything to make her look better that the rest, heck she even saves the day, they put the Ironman scene so no one else notice Whedom fails at making strong male characters, the guy have some daddy problems that amazed me.

The guy should work backwards Cameroon, who made strong female characters by writting them as men, Whedom should write his male characters as females so he could beat this problem.

Also 5 main character is too many main characters, it would be better to have 2 and the rest of the team as backup, look at X Men first class it had a better character development that Avengers because dont try to have to many main protagonist, also its going to be a trilogy so they could base every movie in different characters as the main characters, also its the best way to make a JL movie that is not World Finest and their Superfriends.

John Stewart, I'd argue, is more widely recognized as Green Lantern than Hal Jordan. JL/JLU was an extremely popular cartoon, in fact when the GL movie came out, many were whining on Twitter and accusing Hollywood of white-washing Green Lantern, not knowing that Hal Jordan was the original GL. I'd say that Stewart is a better move for the team, and infinitely more interesting than Cyborg if you're going for diversity. And the point of a JL movie would be showcasing the entire team, not just focusing on Superman & Batman (a bad habit that DC has had since the beginning).

Also, not to throw the entire discussion off-topic, but your Avengers analysis seems off. I've never viewed Whedon as an 'ultra-feminist', he just wants to have strong female characters, and I applaud him for that. And it never seemed as though she was 'better than the rest'. Each character had a time to shine - Widow had her interrogation and closing the portal. We see IM stopping the nuke and saving the Helicarrier, Hulk destroying the Leviathan, Cap leading the team etc. In fact, Captain America and Iron Man both have more screen-time than Widow. If you think that Whedon has never written strong male characters, you must not have read his Cyclops in Astonishing X-Men. Also is there really a need to accuse him of having 'daddy issues'?

And on that note, I found that to be one of the major problems that X-Men: First Class had. In a movie with a title that suggested that it's focus was the first class of the X-Men, instead we get Charles & Magneto + the X-Men, much like how the X-Men Trilogy was 'Wolverine and the X-Men'. You can't just bank the entire JL movie on the success of the World's Finest, it negates the entire point of a movie about a superhero team.

At this point Cyborg is more popular that John Stewart, he was in Teen Titans(More popular tha JLU), was in Smallville(Horribly popular) and Injustice(All migthy popular), he would need less character development since the guy has being more of a main character that John in the last 10 years.

Also this is about Aquaman and for what i see people belive cut him off is a good idea and that sucks, i mean they should cut Flash or Green Lantern.

Flash powers are more useless and Green Lanterns are space police.

#14 Edited by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000

I don't even.....

Well that's the whole point, isn't it? We need to make the audience care for the rest of the JL in the way that we do - that's the whole reason for making a team movie in the first place, as opposed to a World's Finest one. I don't agree with the 'buildup' idea you have, I think that audiences know what they want, and when they see the name 'Justice League', they want what they're paying for - a superteam.

As for Avengers, you're really off (not to mention I don't know what that foot fetish comment is directed at). Widow has at no point any 'romantic subplot'. If you're referring to her relationship with Hawkeye, it was purely platonic, as when Widow herself said, "Love is for children'. I don't see how she had more character development than anyone else. If anything, it's Hulk that has the most, considering he went from uncontrollable menace to valued team member. And of course they have character shields, these are the Avengers after all - the main stars of the show. Most of your complaints seem to be nit-picking on the whole. Just because she was instrumental in defeating the Chitauri doesn't automatically mean that she's Whedon's 'stealth protagonist' that he uses for his 'ultra-feminist' intentions.

Regarding John Stewart, I never argued that he was more popular than Cyborg, just that he's the more recognizable GL as opposed to Hal Jordan. When the general public thinks of GL, they go to Stewart. The only reason why I mentioned Cyborg was that I find him a boring character as opposed to Stewart, who I think would translate well on-screen if you want to introduce diversity to the team.

As much as I like Aquaman, I wouldn't cut him for Flash or GL. Now I'm not saying that I don't want Aquaman in the movie (he is one of my favorites, after all), but that he's not as integral to the larger DCU as the other two characters are. Also, if you think Flash's powers are useless - you've clearly never read a Flash comic before. And how are Green Lanterns being space police a reason for them being dropped?

#15 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Yeah, who cares for character development and plot, look at Micheal Bay he is great he understand this, i hate this point of view that JL should be a generic superhero movie, just put a plot in there put the character and then it will be awesome.

It would be good, but not Star Wars level, where even when they dont show you the origins of the character they build them in the movie and everything they do matters.

The Hulk has zero character development, he just magically controls the Hulk and get by magic where he needs to be.

Black Widow is a minor character, still she got more character development and gets more character shield, stealth protagonist always have more character development and more character shield, also she was a lesser character that got huge weight in the plot, she finds out what Loki wants and pretty much helps more she could, she was a normal human with guns, still she pretty much killed as much aliens as the Captain America.

If they want diversity it would work more a non american character that dont follow the american way of see things, diversity means more that skin color, as muchs as people want to belive a rich black american person has more in common with a rich white american person, that it does with a poor black african person, i mean mexicans and mexican americans have almost nothing in common, Sailor Moon even when all the characters are asians, is a very diverse team, diversity dont mean skin color only, Aquaman fits the outsider point of view the movie would need to dont feel too american.

To be honest, i dont see Flash in the movie for the fact people find him annoying as hell, besides there is some type of hate to the guy i dont get and Green Lantern for the fact his movie flopped and his new cartoon looks like is not getting a new season, i just dont want to say those thing because they sound lik if i am saying are worthless characters.

#16 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Number of appearances doesn't equate to popularity. I'll bet anything that more John Stewart JLU toys have sold than Cyborg TT toys. I say this from experience working at a Target in Florida. I'm not a representative sample, but NO ONE'S FAVORITE TEEN TITAN WAS CYBORG. He looks to clunky and monstrous for a kid to like. But John Stewart was plenty of kids loved John Stewart. And for a whole generation of people, John Stewart is the only Green Lantern that matters.

#17 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000: Number of appearances doesn't equate to popularity. I'll bet anything that more John Stewart JLU toys have sold than Cyborg TT toys. I say this from experience working at a Target in Florida. I'm not a representative sample, but NO ONE'S FAVORITE TEEN TITAN WAS CYBORG. He looks to clunky and monstrous for a kid to like. But John Stewart was plenty of kids loved John Stewart.

Cyborg was my most favorite teen titan, but no, he's not more popular than John though. That much is certain.

#18 Edited by Wboy (442 posts) - - Show Bio

I wouldn't risk it. Think of this as a company, his reputation is so deep under water now is there even any turning back if you're not a comic fan? Non-comicers will most definitely not be thrilled to see him and only go for the other leaguers. Honestly I understand it.

#19 Posted by SHAZAM117 (2673 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman is usually the butt end of jokes, but I think he could def work on the big screen. MARVEL Studios adapted Thor, a character from a magically fantasy land that travel back and forth to our world and his on a rainbow friggin bridge a total bada$$, so Aquaman can work if given the same treatment

#20 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@wboy said:

I wouldn't risk it. Think of this as a company, his reputation is so deep under water now is there even any turning back if you're not a comic fan? Non-comicers will most definitely not be thrilled to see him and only go for the other leaguers. Honestly I understand it.

Exactly. And one movie won't change his rep, no matter how good it is. There are still jokes about GL and Yellow. There are still jokes about Batman and Robin being gay. There are still jokes about Flash being quick in bed. There are still jokes about Superman being too much of a boy scout. There will always be jokes about Aquaman being useless away from water.

#21 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Yeah, who cares for character development and plot, look at Micheal Bay he is great he understand this, i hate this point of view that JL should be a generic superhero movie, just put a plot in there put the character and then it will be awesome.

It would be good, but not Star Wars level, where even when they dont show you the origins of the character they build them in the movie and everything they do matters.


If they want diversity it would work more a non american character that dont follow the american way of see things, diversity means more that skin color, as muchs as people want to belive a rich black american person has more in common with a rich white american person, that it does with a poor black african person, i mean mexicans and mexican americans have almost nothing in common, Sailor Moon even when all the characters are asians, is a very diverse team, diversity dont mean skin color only, Aquaman fits the outsider point of view the movie would need to dont feel too american.

To be honest, i dont see Flash in the movie for the fact people find him annoying as hell, besides there is some type of hate to the guy i dont get and Green Lantern for the fact his movie flopped and his new cartoon looks like is not getting a new season, i just dont want to say those thing because they sound lik if i am saying are worthless characters.

Um....I don't really understand your first point...I think it's an attempt at sarcasm?

As for the Avengers, your summation of the Hulk is inaccurate and a common misconception. First off, if you've seen the Incredible Hulk, you would've known that Banner had already fully got control of the Hulk by the end of that movie. As he states in the Avengers itself, his secret is that he's 'always angry'. And on the Helicarrier, we see Loki manipulating the entire team into conflict with one another - up to the point that Banner even reached for the scepter. So the explosive mixture of the manipulation + the shock of him nearly dying as a result of the explosion, caused Banner to lose control and transform into Hulk in the first instance. It's an isolated incident. But by the final battle, he has the Hulk back under control.

And as for how Banner knew how to go to New York, remember that he was hired by Fury to track the gamma signature of the Tesseract - he already knew that it was in Stark Tower before, but never got the chance to tell anyone else. I believe there was also a deleted scene that showed Banner got the bike from the security guard who found him after his fall.

For the rest of your complaints about Black Widow, your argument is just throwing blanket statements without anything specific. She got 'more character development', she has more of a 'character shield', you're just reaching at this point. And now you're arguing that as an ordinary human, she should've been less-effective against the Chitauri? What's your ideal Black Widow - a character who just stands there, not fighting anyone, a helpless dame who serves no other purpose save for eye candy? The Chitauri were cannon-fodder, not some high-end supervillain, and Widow had as much development and screentime as the other Avengers did. And you refer to her as a 'minor character', but miss the point that as an 'Avengers' movie, there is no major or minor - there are just Avengers.

I do agree with your statement about 'diversity', but I just wanted to point out that Stewart would be a better choice than Cyborg. I also don't really understand your comment about Flash hate because frankly I've never heard about such a thing (he did win fourth place in this year's Popularity Tournament, after all), and just because GL's movie flopped, doesn't mean that the character himself has no merit.

#22 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

IMO Marvel will do Namor on film correctly first then Arthur will eventually follow.

#23 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Is based on the fact every time i talk about building the character, people gets pissed and talk shit about this, the only way to build a character is characer development, not building a character mean no character development and it mean bidimensional characters, i would hate to see bidimensional character in this movie.

The Incredible Hulk is my favorite Marvel movie and favorite superhero tv show, BIll Bixby was the best Banner, that dont change Norton control the Hulk because he train how to control him, then we hear he can be the Hulk because he is always angry, even when Edward Norton face at the end is not an angry face, his face show you he is in control of Hulk and he can deal with his problems, being alway angry is not character development, is not going foward is going backwards, being always angry dont work to control yourself and is a thing and insane person would do, he is not controling Hulk, Hulk is controling Banner, David Banner had problems, still he always cared more to help people, that actually control or find a way to destroy Hulk, he live his life with Hulk inside of him, but he was always in control of his life, even in some way he control Hulk, he never control how to transform, but when he was Hluk he was acting in the same manner Banner would had.

David Banner married again, help a kid because his father hit him, he lost many chances to get help against Hulk, because he was helping people became a menthor figure for other Marvel heroes like Thor, he was the original Avenger and living his life.

Black Widow had a small role in Ironman 2, i dont see the need to have her with such huge role now, besides there was better female options of characters, they used her as Wonder Woman, when she is not Wonder Woman, hey have to build her because they give her zero character developemnt in Ironman 2, i just have problem with how her character was written, when she was a second rate character, she was Batgirl, not Wonder Women, many people blame Johanssen for being bad, but i dont, i blame te fact they decide to bring 2 character that had zero character development to the movie, also they are not going to use her in the Shield series or give her a movie, so it her character development ends going no place.

There is so many horrible Flash jokes online, also all the non comic book readers look to belive he is annoying or unfunny, he is in the akward zone between being Aquaman and being any GL for the mainstream, also i dont say no merit, that what i try to dodge, i just say it looks like if people dont react that well to him and i blame Ryan Reynolds for that, go an make a Deadpool movie or else.

@wboy said:

I wouldn't risk it. Think of this as a company, his reputation is so deep under water now is there even any turning back if you're not a comic fan? Non-comicers will most definitely not be thrilled to see him and only go for the other leaguers. Honestly I understand it.

Exactly. And one movie won't change his rep, no matter how good it is. There are still jokes about GL and Yellow. There are still jokes about Batman and Robin being gay. There are still jokes about Flash being quick in bed. There are still jokes about Superman being too much of a boy scout. There will always be jokes about Aquaman being useless away from water.

It was a sad day when i notice i am one of the few that still have hopes in Aquaman, what is wrong with you they will put freacking Cyborg, not John Stewart, not Hal Jordan, not Barry Allen, heck not even Tim Drake, but Cyborg.

No one favorite Teen Titan.

#24 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000

I never said that character development was a bad thing (nor am I 'pissed', for the record). All I'm clarifying was your misconceptions about the Avengers regarding Widow/Hulk, as well as my disagreement of the idea of separately building the JL team over a trilogy of movies. Not only does that negate the point of a JL movie, it's also not financially feasible. I much prefer separate solo movies before a final team-up.

On a really tangential note, I think the phrase is 'two-dimensional', not bi.

As for the Hulk, we see that Banner gains control at the end of the Incredible Hulk when he triggers his transformation and smiles. I think you're misunderstanding the 'angry' comment - it's his method of coping with all the internal rage that the Hulk represents. It's progress because we finally see him coming to terms with the monster inside him. And in the final battle, we see that control throughout. When he saves Iron Man, when he fights alongside Thor, when he even takes orders from Cap. It's clear that the separate identities of Banner and Hulk have come to terms. I'm not sure what your next paragraph about Banner being hit by his father is about...it seems to be a stream-of-consciousness sentence...

I still don't understand your enmity regarding Black Widow. First you said that she was a stealth protagonist for Whedon's personal 'feminist' agenda, and now you're saying that she shouldn't have such a large role? The MCU takes a lot of cues from the Ultimate Universe, and Widow as a major member of the Ultimates, which is why she was selected here. In Iron Man 2, she was shoe-horned in, in order to tie-in to the Avengers, so we definitely didn't get to see much characterization there. But now in the Avengers itself, she gets a decent amount of screen-time to flesh out. I'm really confused, your present comments sound as though you're saying that she's had too little character development, when earlier on you said she had too much.

As for Flash, I have never got the impression that non-comic readers view him as annoying or unfunny. In fact, most of my friends who grew up with JL/JLU and whom are non comic-readers, cite Wally as their favorite member of the team. I don't even understand this point - the opinions of a few don't automatically mean that the character should be dropped, nor are his powers 'useless' or otherwise. As for GL, I wasn't saying that you said he had no merit, just that just because his movie flopped doesn't mean the character can't be utilized well.

#25 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

LOL at the pepole that think there will be character development in the Justice League film

#26 Posted by logy5000 (5655 posts) - - Show Bio

Nobody likes Aquaman unless they've read a sh!t load of his comics.

#27 Posted by The Stegman (23235 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh..too many long posts..don't wanna read them all, so I'll say, Yes, Aquaman can support his own movie.

#28 Edited by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that the justice league movie shouldn't have Aquaman in it until the second movie. I would put in the core 5 and maybe introduce Martian Manhunter and the white martians. But Aquaman needs his own great movie. Then should be introduced into the Justice League.

Cyborg should not be in the JL because everyone sees him as a titan still. Even I still do. Plus him in the jL renders Batman pretty much useless.

#29 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42: There is no way in hell Aquaman will get a solo movie without appearing in JL first

#30 Posted by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous: Maybe if all WBs movies are successful then they would be confident enough.

#31 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio
#32 Edited by leych (20 posts) - - Show Bio

Aquaman is not part of "The Main Five" (Batman, Superman, WW, Hal and Barry)

Having more than 5 characters in the JL would be overkill and there would be no room for character development.

I see a Martian Manhunter cameo in the first film, and then maybe introducing Aquaman and Cyborg in the sequel.

#33 Edited by Captain13 (3284 posts) - - Show Bio

@lilben42: There is no way in hell Aquaman will get a solo movie without appearing in JL first

Briiiing! Briiiing!

Ant-Man and the Gurdians of the Galaxy would like to speak with you.

#34 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32918 posts) - - Show Bio

@jonny_anonymous said:

@lilben42: There is no way in hell Aquaman will get a solo movie without appearing in JL first

Briiiing! Briiiing!

Ant-Man and the Gurdians of the Galaxy would like to speak with you.

Yea I spoke to them, they said "we are characters from a different company that already has a multimillion dollar franchise that can sell anything with "Marvel" on it so we are not really relevant" also characters that are unknown are easier to sell than characters known by everybody but are thought of as a joke

#35 Posted by Pwok21 (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

Nobody likes Aquaman unless they've read a sh!t load of his comics.

*hem hem*
No Aquaman comics read, and Arthur is still my favourite.

#36 Edited by Onemoreposter (3955 posts) - - Show Bio

All I know is that when Marvel comes out with a highly successful Namor film, WB is going to be pissed and by then it'll be too late to make their own Aquaman film because the two characters are so similar (and the movie Submariner will probably draw off comics Aquaman as much as it will comics Namor).

#37 Posted by logy5000 (5655 posts) - - Show Bio

@pwok21 said:

@logy5000 said:

Nobody likes Aquaman unless they've read a sh!t load of his comics.

*hem hem*

No Aquaman comics read, and Arthur is still my favourite.

How can you like a character if you don't even know about them?

#38 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: David Banner was The Incredible Hulk on the tv show, ti was so big that Whedon said he based Avengers Hulk in this Hulk, still in the show you could notice Banner wasnt trying so hard to deal with Hulk, in his list of priorities, helping and saving people was the number 1, he even live in the USA and never decide to walk around the world to places where Hulk would never hurt people.

Evey episode you see Banner control the Hulk by the fact they where one, if Banner wasnt a killer the Hulk wasnt a killer, still he undestand he had to control Hulk, not let him go wild because he didnt understand how much damage he could cause as Hulk, even in the movies you could notice he finally find a way to only be Banner without the Hulk.

He keep his life and never let Hulk control his life,Ruffalo and Norton let Hulk control their lifes.

She is a protagonist, but was never design to be a protagonist and she gets there from no place and end going no place, so all the work they did with her ends going no place, is a no contest subplot, that could work in the comics, where i am used to see this almost every single comic book, but movies are not comics.

You are basing this point of view on people that saw that cartoon, all the people that never saw this cartoon and get to know the character of other thing dont stand him, since the mainstream is pretty damn bad with Flash and Aquaman, you base that JLU was so popular that the mainstream wants this as a movie, i am based on the fatc the mainsteam never saw that cartoon and base themselves from Smallville, where Flash wasn that great and had Cyborg, i mean even Snyder keep character of Smallville in his movie and say it was what keep Superman alive.

#39 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000

That's an interesting comparison to draw from the TV series, but in what way is that related to your original argument that the Hulk receives no character development? Even that aside, I was just clarifying your misconception that the Hulk 'magically gained control' and explaining how he got to Stark Tower for the final battle, which we know are both untrue.

....So now you're saying that she has no development, when earlier on you said that she had too much and had a 'character shield'. You're basically shooting your own complaint in the foot at this point. I don't know what your comment about her not being designed as a protagonist even means.

As for Flash, I was citing that as an example, because JL/JLU is the most well-known depiction of the Flash. You're seriously underestimating the popularity of that cartoon, the DCAU was a big part for a lot of kids growing up, and introduced many to the comics (many users on the Vine, myself no less). It's certainly more popular than Smallville of all things. Not to mention Smallville did have a Flash (Bart Allen), who had more episode time than Cyborg! Regardless of all of that, that isn't even the point. Your statement was that Flash should be dropped because people 'hate him and find him annoying' (a statement that you have yet to back up), it has nothing to do with awareness of the character.

#40 Edited by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio
#41 Posted by lilben42 (2498 posts) - - Show Bio

@onemoreposter: I doubt it would be highly successful. Most of Marvels films are average at least. But I see what your saying and that would be bad for DC.

#42 Edited by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@leych: Sevene Samurai say you are wrong, you can have a group big as seven and get enough character development if you made the movie long enough and the action scene are not just there to see superheroes super brawl that go no place.

@onemoreposter said:

All I know is that when Marvel comes out with a highly successful Namor film, WB is going to be pissed and by then it'll be too late to make their own Aquaman film because the two characters are so similar (and the movie Submariner will probably draw off comics Aquaman as much as it will comics Namor).

The haircut will make Namor movie fail, his hair cut is so bad it will destroy the Marvel Cinematic universe

@veshark:Not by magic, but still dont change the fact he is not doing the same that Norton and dont look like the same character, Norton learns how to control the Hulk, Ruffalos lives with him, its never explain how he transforms to the Hulk, they explain it with being angry even when we have no evidence of this, also this dont explain why he was so afraid all the movie about Hulk or why he gets himself in a situation where Hulk will came out, since Norton Hulk could get out if his heart reach certain rhythm, now he looks to only can transform himself to the Hulk by his emotions even when he was controling his anger problem in brazil with a martial arts sensei.

They should add Bill Bixby to the movies with CGI.

They wanted to reboot his show with Guillermo del Toro, but without Bixby it will suck.

I am saying she has development, it just goes no place with the development, they build her in Avengers and now they dont do anything with her, she is not the main protagonist of the Marvel universe, but was the protagonist of the movie, if you give character development to some one it should be so we see some changes in the character and how their plot ends, so far it looks there is no plan for her, heck even Jeremy Renner pretty much said he is not coming back as Hawkeye, but who cares about Hawkeye anyway.

An example, is like building a skryscraper, then you decide to have the damn thing will be empty all the time, you just build the damn thing for the sake of building, you are not going to use it, so what was the point?

You say it some kids, not all of them, saddly Smaville was so damn popular people wanted this guys to be in the movies, even when many of this people sucked at acting and they build the Justice Legue in the show, with the most horrible costumes i have ever seen, it made Green Arrow so damly popular he now has his own tv show, the mainstream dont see superheroe cartoons or superhero tv shows, their most often joke about Flash is the JL picture without Flash, Flash is one step in being Aquaman to the mainstream, also that one genration of nerd grew up with John Stewart as GL in the JL and with a Flash that they liked, dont change all the rest of people dont, Smaville had Aquaman, sure the actor sucked but it shows people dont have that much of problems with him, not only that, they almost give him his own Spin off after they changed tthe actor, for you know the guy that played Green Arrow and made him popular.

#43 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000

They are still the same character. Yes, the role is played by two different actors, but it's the same Hulk in the same Marvel Cinematic Universe. You're taking the 'angry' comment way too specifically, and missing the main point. The main point is that Norton has already learned how to control the Hulk, and that carries over to Ruffalo. We see him displaying that control in the final battle. What happened in the Helicarrier was an isolated incident which I've already explained above. The present MCU Banner has already achieved the control of the transformation, he no longer needs to be angry or panicked.

Again, there's nothing supporting your claim that she was the 'protagonist' of the movie. She receives character development because she doesn't have the benefit of a solo movie like the other Avengers, that's all. We already know that she's not an A-lister who can hold her own feature film, so the opportunity is given to her in other movies (she is after all, playing a major role in Captain America 2). The Avengers movie is about the Avengers - you can't just give all the work to Tony Stark and not give a part for the rest of the team. Just because her character development doesn't translate over to a solo movie, doesn't mean it's wasted. She still exists in the MCU, she's still being featured in other MCU movies such as Cap 2 and Avengers 2, and she still has a role. To use your analogy, she's not an empty skyscraper, just a not-so frequented but still necessary one.

Here's the difference between Smallville and JL/JLU. Smallville Cyborg was featured in like, two episodes in that series. Flash was in nearly every episode of the JL series, plus several in JLU. And Flash himself was even in Smallville! That aside, that video proves exactly nothing about Flash hate. There are no comedic references specifically to the Flash or his abilities, unlike Aquaman jokes. The entire video's humor is basically derived from the Big Three of the JLA being so popular compared to the rest of the heroes, there's none of that 'Flash hate' you keep claiming. You might as well say that because Dr. Mid-Nite was in that video, clearly there's DR. MID-NITE HATE. I don't even know what that ramble about Arrow is.

#44 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9601 posts) - - Show Bio

@veshark: Cyborg was in Smallville, but besides thet was in Injustice and Teen Titans, the point of putting John Stewart because he is the most well known minority character dont apply, since we have seen Cyborg more often, that more people like a character dont mean more people know him, that is the reason why WB likes Cyborg also you are based on JLU being so popular, that was more popular that Injustice, Teen Titans and Smallville, John Stewart could be more popular in the nerdom, but that dont chage he was in less things that Cyborg, less media coverage mean less people see you.

You put John Stewart over Hal Jordan because he was more popular, still the evidence show tht under that argument Cyborg as a meber make more sense, i dont like Cyborg, but that dont change it looks someone on WB likes him to the point they put him every place they can put hi in.

Smallville was so popular that made Green Arrow big enough to gets his own tv show, that was the power and popularity of Smallville and evidence JLU was less popular that Smallville, since Smallville help to build a not so well known character to his own tv show, sure it looks bizarrely to similar to TDK Trilogy for his own good, but they take the character and did something with it.

I said hate and annoying, people in the mainstream is not as open to the DC character, people often forget he try to have his own tv show and failed, not only that people Flash joke is that the rest of the team find him so annoying they take a picture without Flash, also it could be hate is indiference and i am cofusing them, but indiference is worst, because that means people dont care for a character and for the same there is no way to connect him with people, how people in the mainstream see Flash, like the guy that his only power is run really fast, people find this power silly because you can see all the movie websites that talk about Flash gettting a movie this is the comment people gives and always talk crap about how boring would be a movie about a guy that his only power is that, he has other power, but again movies dont follow the same logic, Superman on movies has 1% of his powers.

Mainstream see Flash as the lame guy that runs really fast and Aquaman as the lame guy that talks with fishsticks, Flash could be more popular with nerds and have a better image with nerds, but in the mainstream he is in the same train that Aquaman, Dick Grayson and other character that the mainstream have huge missconeptions about this characters.

That one character is popular with nerds, dont mean is popular in the mainstream.

#45 Posted by Black_Claw (2919 posts) - - Show Bio

I seriously think its best to save Aquaman for a sequel. I'd love it to be loosely based off of throne of Atlantis, with Orm waging war against the surface world and all.

#46 Edited by mk111 (3140 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah, Aquaman isn't cool enough, but Martian Manhunter might be.

#47 Posted by Humanoid (132 posts) - - Show Bio

I feel like Aquaman would complicate things. He's King of 70% of the world for crying out loud.

#48 Posted by desmond006 (596 posts) - - Show Bio

Aqua man is not cool enough. It's that simple. There is a small chance he could be a breakthrough character but I highly doubt it. The question is would you rather risk a poor attempt at aquaman in the movies and turn even more non comic fans against him or just leave him be?

Dont get me wrong new 52 aqua man is awesome and I do like the character a lot. I've even started reading his pre new 52 stuff

#49 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

@deathpoolthet1000

We weren't talking about Cyborg compared to John Stewart, we were talking about Flash being more popular than Cyborg. And again, as I stated earlier, I never said that John Stewart was more popular than Cyborg. I just mentioned that he was the more recognizable GL in comparison to Hal Jordan. My decision for Stewart over Cyborg has absolutely nothing to do with character popularity and everything to do with my personal opinion that Stewart is a more compelling character. I'm not trying to make this personal, but at this stage, you're just twisting my words to prove a point that doesn't exist. You just wasted three paragraphs talking about Cyborg v. John Stewart - a point that I didn't even address in my earlier reply, and I'm not even sure why you're bringing it up.

As per your claim that Arrow shows that Smallville was more popular - it isn't even relevant to your argument. JLU was a popular cartoon - and Flash was a titular character in that show. Smallville had two episodes with Cyborg in it - his origin, and the Justice League one (unless you count a short cameo in another episodes). You can't equate Cyborg to Green Arrow's popularity, Green Arrow was a main cast member for like five seasons in Smallville and headlined a number of episodes. Cyborg was a guest star in two, and that's it. Significantly less.

Yeah, I know you said 'hate and annoying', so how does posting that parody video even illustrate your point? There's nothing specifically pointing your claimed hate against Flash. You haven't even given me any proof at all. If I said that the public thought Aquaman was a lame character, I can back up that claim. I can show you the useless fish Super-Friends jokes. I can show you the references made in the TV show Entourage. I can even show how the nu-52 series references Aquaman's 'lameness' in the very first issue. What can you show me to justify your claim that popular culture hates the Flash? The comments of a few supposed forum posters don't mean squat. Now you're back-tracking and claiming that you meant 'indifference' (which is a whole other argument by the way), and rambling on about movies.

Also, you've blatantly ignored all of my comments about the Avengers, instead conjuring up an entirely irrelevant argument about Cyborg's popularity.

#50 Posted by Pwok21 (2249 posts) - - Show Bio

@logy5000 said:

@pwok21 said:

@logy5000 said:

Nobody likes Aquaman unless they've read a sh!t load of his comics.

*hem hem*

No Aquaman comics read, and Arthur is still my favourite.

How can you like a character if you don't even know about them?

He's always been my favourites from the cartoons and the Justice League books but I've never been able to get his comics. Nowhere in the area stocks them ;_;

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