Justice League of America #1 Discussion

#1 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

I just read it and I want to discuss it

beg in mind that this is not a review so im assuming that anyone who enters this thread already read the book, therefore there will be spoiler.

The premise of the book i think is really really solid but it is not original, and i dont mean by the fact that i have already seen this kind of thing before, but for the fact that it has been already been tried in the new 52 with the disappointment that was Justice League International, but here is done with a much better execution than that.

it lays a perfect presentation to every single one of the characters as well as the plot and why this group needs to be together, That last part is something has been omitted in a lot of team books, even Justice League doesnt have that, BoP didnt had that either.

however i had 3 problems with this book, 2 of the characters and the ending.

the characters in question are Catwoman and Hawkman.

Starting with Hawkman, i have read all the issues of Savage Hawkman, it is a horrible series, it has a horrible direction and just plain horrible ideas, it was bad with Daniels, it was bad with Liefeld its bad with Defalco or whoever is writing it now, its obvious to me that DC didnt knew what to do with the character on his own series.

and the problem that i have with Hawkman here is amazingly that it doesnt anything to do the series, or at least from what we have seen so far.

now you might think "wait a sec, if Savage Hawkman sucks so bad wouldnt it be good to just sweep it under the rug like its been done here?"

well to me thats not positive, its just inconsistent, the Hawkman in JLA is a cop who is hunting thanagarians in earth, I have no idea where did that came from and I dont even remember if Hawkman is a cop here.

but maybe its done by design, maybe this is not the same hawkman and the whole thing is the set up for him as the traitor of the storyline.

Regarding Catwoman, Steve Trevor convinces Catwoman to join the JLA by telling her that he knows her real name as it was established in the terrible Catwoman 0, but there is another reason and is cause Catwoman knows Batman better so she is perfect to take him out and I absolutely no idea where the hell that BS came from

really? Catwoman knows batman enough to take him out?

with pre-new 52 Catwoman maybe I would agree but with the current Catwoman is not even close to that if only just because they had sex, it just blows my mind the logic in this idea.

It doesnt help that she has been portray so badly in her own book again and again and besides I just hate the entire "she is not Selina Kyle" or that she has a fake name, it basically tells me that she is not Catwoman at all.

Finally The ending

basically Green Arrow dies, and thats the ending, except that we know he wont die at all so i feel that is kind an stupid way to end while trying to be dramatic about it.

and thats pretty much my 2 cents

what do you think?

#2 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see where you're coming from regarding Hawkman, but personally, it doesn't really bother me much. Having tried to read through his horrible new series, anything positive (even if it means rebuilding altogether) is fine by me. Might make them look bad, but if they felt that this was the only way to fix that, then who am I to argue?

I totally agree with Catwoman. I don't know why Trevor would think that she's competent enough to take on Batman.

And the ending? Meh. It was dumb, but not dumb enough for me to not give the next issue another chance.

#3 Edited by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

I can see where you're coming from regarding Hawkman, but personally, it doesn't really bother me much. Having tried to read through his horrible new series, anything positive (even if it means rebuilding altogether) is fine by me. Might make them look bad, but if they felt that this was the only way to fix that, then who am I to argue?

My problem is that they basically ruin Savage Hawkman from the beginning and hen they give im to Liefeld and all this time they were thinking about him joining the JLA, and then this practically invalidates the entire sequence

It kind of makes me feel like there was a Humongous amout of effort just wasted and it makes me wish that they had done it well with the series at the first try.

and the worst part is that if Hawkman is actually the traitor than it just put him again in that position that we had postcrisis where is continuity was soo much Balls that he couldnt be used.

I totally agree with Catwoman. I don't know why Trevor would think that she's competent enough to take on Batman.

It just makes no sense to me, and apparently this guys are perfectly ok with murderers an thieves in the JLA, with that in mind why not have Bane instead of her, makes as much sense.

And the ending? Meh. It was dumb, but not dumb enough for me to not give the next issue another chance.

dont get me wrong i plan to keep reading and i thought the issue was pretty good but it left a bad taste in my mouth with that ending

I felt the same with The Shade #1, the Shade is a brilliant series but the end of chp 1 is a massive waste of ink and paper

#4 Edited by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: I don't think Hawkman will end up being the traitor. Bane would've been a vastly superior choice to Catwoman, though. Guess they needed more women on the team.

#5 Posted by akbogert (3224 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024: Who knows? Maybe Catwoman will be written well here. Sounds like she could use some better exposure, and not of the kind she's been getting.

#6 Posted by The_Tree (7773 posts) - - Show Bio

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

#7 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

i actually liked that part not because he said she is a big assassin but it kind of gave me how DC wants to sell Katana

so maybe she is not the deadliest assassin in the world that can take on WW but thats what DC is aiming at, and I thought that wasnt bad

#8 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

bump

#9 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

#10 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

Probably. Or she'll just beat up Batman to prove how awesome she is.

#11 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

Probably. Or she'll just beat up Batman to prove how awesome she is.

which would indeed require boost of some sort

#12 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

Probably. Or she'll just beat up Batman to prove how awesome she is.

I thought that was the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost.

#13 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

Probably. Or she'll just beat up Batman to prove how awesome she is.

which would indeed require boost of some sort

Nah, it's Johns' Batman. He'll trip over a stray log (in the Watchtower, because it's Johns and F*CK YOU, SENSE) and she'll just kick the crap out of him.

CV will give it 5 stars, and recommend it to people who like this, but not to people who don't.

#14 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

she's probably getting the standard Geoff Johns power/status boost

Probably. Or she'll just beat up Batman to prove how awesome she is.

which would indeed require boost of some sort

Nah, it's Johns' Batman. He'll trip over a stray log (in the Watchtower, because it's Johns and F*CK YOU, SENSE) and she'll just kick the crap out of him.

CV will give it 5 stars, and recommend it to people who like this, but not to people who don't.

.....is it a big log?

#15 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@arnoldoaad: @Gambit1024: Bane has never been a hero though...okay he was for a very brief period but he'll always be known as a Batman villain or a soldier of fortune.I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.If Black Canary wasn't already a member of BOP and JL she would've been a perfect choice.

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

Same here,Deathstroke makes sense but Katana? hell no.Lady Shiva,Deadshot,Cheshire,Merlyn are all better than her.

#16 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambit1024 said:

@arnoldoaad: I don't think Hawkman will end up being the traitor. Bane would've been a vastly superior choice to Catwoman, though. Guess they needed more women on the team.

i thought they were supposed to be heroes and anti-heroes

#17 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@arnoldoaad: @Gambit1024: Bane has never been a hero though...okay he was for a very brief period but he'll always be known as a Batman villain or a soldier of fortune.I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.If Black Canary wasn't already a member of BOP and JL she would've been a perfect choice.

@The_Tree said:

Agreed on the Catwoman thing.

I didn't really like that they said that Katana was tied for World's Deadliest Assassin with Deathstroke (in the eyes of the US govt.). I can understand 'Stroke being considered so high, but I think there are better assassins than Katana.

Same here,Deathstroke makes sense but Katana? hell no.Lady Shiva,Deadshot,Cheshire,Merlyn are all better than her.

they're all also well known villains right? not simply criminals like Catwoman but VILLAINS

#18 Posted by AtPhantom (14521 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

#19 Edited by colonyofcells (2038 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that bane, deadshot, catman, lady shiva, cheshire, cassandra cain, richard dragon, bronze tiger, etc. are much better choices than Catwoman but they probably need to use jla to help promote catwoman and/or maybe catwoman is there to help prop up the jla. Many batman family characters have been put in teams to prop up these team titles such as batwing in JLI, red hood in outlaws, etc. The role of catwoman in jla seems to steal stuff rather than taking out batman or maybe catwoman can keep batman occupied with sex. As for hawkman, the new powers of hawkman are close to that of blue beetle and vuldarians, and hawkman should be able to beat superman and hawkman just needs better stories. Green arrow also needs to increase his skills/gadgets so Green Arrow can also beat Batman, one day.

#20 Posted by arnoldoaad (1007 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@arnoldoaad: @Gambit1024: Bane has never been a hero though...okay he was for a very brief period but he'll always be known as a Batman villain or a soldier of fortune.I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.If Black Canary wasn't already a member of BOP and JL she would've been a perfect choice.

consider that Johns used Black Adam, a notorious villain, in the JSA, and he became as popular if not more popular than Shazam, it kinda makes sense to have Bane here

#21 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt:To the average person it makes no difference.@AtPhantom said:

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

Sorry I should've said fans,but writers too can get carried away sometimes(Year:one,Terror).

#22 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt:To the average person it makes no difference.@AtPhantom said:

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

Sorry I should've said fans,but writers too can get carried away sometimes(Year:one,Terror).

The average person wouldn't care if the worlds most notorious assassin was let on to the JLA, a team that they're supposed to be able to count on?

#23 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt:To the average person it makes no difference.@AtPhantom said:

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

Sorry I should've said fans,but writers too can get carried away sometimes(Year:one,Terror).

The average person wouldn't care if the worlds most notorious assassin was let on to the JLA, a team that they're supposed to be able to count on?

She was already part of the BOP before and I doubt people know much about her and TBH the whole"best assassin" thing seems like hyperbole to make Katana look good.

#24 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt:To the average person it makes no difference.@AtPhantom said:

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

Sorry I should've said fans,but writers too can get carried away sometimes(Year:one,Terror).

The average person wouldn't care if the worlds most notorious assassin was let on to the JLA, a team that they're supposed to be able to count on?

She was already part of the BOP before and I doubt people know much about her and TBH the whole"best assassin" thing seems like hyperbole to make Katana look good.

wait.....are we talking about the same thing? Im saying it doesn't make sense to let Deathstroke on the team because he's the most notorious assasin and completely unrepentant.

#25 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt:To the average person it makes no difference.@AtPhantom said:

@entropy_aegis said:

I do agree on Catwoman though and I fear she'll suddenly be able to kick Batman ass.Catwoman writers love playing with the idea that Catwoman=Batman and with Johns I dont have much faith.

That's interesting because I read through most of Catwoman vol 2 and I never really got that impression. It always seemed pretty clear to me that yeah, she's pretty awesome even by Gotham standards, but Batman is on another level. Was that just me?

Sorry I should've said fans,but writers too can get carried away sometimes(Year:one,Terror).

The average person wouldn't care if the worlds most notorious assassin was let on to the JLA, a team that they're supposed to be able to count on?

She was already part of the BOP before and I doubt people know much about her

True. but thats probably why she's here. she's getting a starring role in the upcoming Batman series so things might change.

TBH the whole"best assassin" thing seems like hyperbole to make Katana look good.

It is. she wasnt even an assassin pre-flashpoint.

#26 Posted by entropy_aegis (15456 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Yeah I was referring to Katana,but I agree as Fade rightfully said this team is not JLA material and the inclusion of most of these guys does not make any sense at all.

#27 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Yeah I was referring to Katana,but I agree as Fade rightfully said this team is not JLA material and the inclusion of most of these guys does not make any sense at all.

true but then again,i think the whole point of the book is to change people's minds about that. anybody can sell a book with say Static, Batgirl/Batwoman, insert GL here, and whoever you want to take Katana's place.

#28 Posted by The_Tree (7773 posts) - - Show Bio

One thing I just realized is that Green Arrow doesn't have a match-up with someone that's on the JL. I wonder what that means for the role he'll play on the team.

#29 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

One thing I just realized is that Green Arrow doesn't have a match-up with someone that's on the JL. I wonder what that means for the role he'll play on the team.

he was supposed to be in Catwoman's spot but Trevor had them switched out.

#30 Posted by The_Tree (7773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: I know that. But doesn't that make you wonder why they allowed him to join if they already had his replacement on board? Surely they didn't just say "The more the merrier. Come on in, Ollie!"

#31 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: I know that. But doesn't that make you wonder why they allowed him to join if they already had his replacement on board? Surely they didn't just say "The more the merrier. Come on in, Ollie!"

well technically he isnt on the team yet, he was already doing work for Argus and is on the edge of death right now.and apparently he's going to try to force his way in later on

#32 Posted by The_Tree (7773 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: I know that. But doesn't that make you wonder why they allowed him to join if they already had his replacement on board? Surely they didn't just say "The more the merrier. Come on in, Ollie!"

well technically he isnt on the team yet, he was already doing work for Argus and is on the edge of death right now.and apparently he's going to try to force his way in later on

I know this, too. I'm talking about the bigger picture: the role he'll play on the team. Trevor's the leader, the others are the match-ups for the JL, and Ollie is just there. What makes him a worthy addition and an important asset to the team? That's what I want to know.

#33 Edited by Bluefox170 (387 posts) - - Show Bio
@arnoldoaad: well to me thats not positive, its just inconsistent, the Hawkman in JLA is a cop who is hunting thanagarians in earth, I have no idea where did that came from and I dont even remember if Hawkman is a cop here.

I'm not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet, but Hawkman is not a cop. That's just the story the government is going to release to the press so no one questions his own personal hunt on earth.

#34 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13470 posts) - - Show Bio

@The_Tree said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@The_Tree said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: I know that. But doesn't that make you wonder why they allowed him to join if they already had his replacement on board? Surely they didn't just say "The more the merrier. Come on in, Ollie!"

well technically he isnt on the team yet, he was already doing work for Argus and is on the edge of death right now.and apparently he's going to try to force his way in later on

I know this, too. I'm talking about the bigger picture: the role he'll play on the team. Trevor's the leader, the others are the match-ups for the JL, and Ollie is just there. What makes him a worthy addition and an important asset to the team? That's what I want to know.

ah gotcha. other then that "social conscience" stuff i can really see what he'd do either .

#35 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (7455 posts) - - Show Bio

I liked it.

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