Thanks Jeff Parker

#1 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Because we all loved it the first time Juggernaut got depowered. 
 
Why is this guy taking story hooks from Chuck Austen?
#2 Posted by Morpheus_ (29696 posts) - - Show Bio
Juggernaut was depowered again? I haven't read T-bolts # 135 yet.
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#3 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6023 posts) - - Show Bio
@Morpheus_ said:
" Juggernaut was depowered again? I haven't read T-bolts # 135 yet. "
You shouldn't . Read Thunderbolts #145 .
#4 Edited by TheJuggernautpunch (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Yeah , I was really glad to see Juggernaut getting pummelled while he was an X-man , I was really glad to see him being pummelled by Wrecking Crew in New Excalibur , and I am definitely glad to see him being a p*ssy again in Thunderbolts . Thank you , Marvel .

#5 Posted by Morpheus_ (29696 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" @Morpheus_ said:
" Juggernaut was depowered again? I haven't read T-bolts # 135 yet. "
You shouldn't . Read Thunderbolts #145 . "
Typing error, I meant # 145.
 
@TheJuggernautpunch said:
" Yeah , I was really glad to see Juggernaut getting pummeled while he was an X-man , I was really glad to see him being pummeled by Wrecking Crew in New Excalibur , and I am definitely glad to see him being a p*ssy again in Thunderbolts . Thank you , Marvel . "

Ouch.
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#6 Edited by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio

If Jeff Parker doesn't fix him before he is done with Cain then another writer could pick him up and Imposternaut is the new norm again. And to be fair,  Parker is only using Imposternaut. He isn't the Huggernaut.....yet. 
 
BTW can someone name me a memorable Austin to Clermont Cain story? Now can someone name me what event Cain (re)appeared in a couple years ago? 
 
Oh yeah and according to Parker, writing Cain like this makes him "interesting".

#7 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut was repowered in WWH. 
 
I don't understand why you would depower the Juggernaut.  His entire purpose is to be this unstoppable monster that you can't just beat up.  If you want a high level brick that wants to escape but CAN be beaten up, just put Wrecker or Titana on the team.
#8 Posted by NodNolan (108 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut with "unstoppable" powers is such a one trick pony. Withdraw some of the power to encourage more of the character.  

#9 Posted by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio
@NodNolan said:
" Juggernaut with "unstoppable" powers is such a one trick pony. Withdraw some of the power to encourage more of the character.   "
Is that you Jeff?
#10 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@NodNolan said:

"Juggernaut with "unstoppable" powers is such a one trick pony. Withdraw some of the power to encourage more of the character.   "


And yet lose the entire essence of what he's supposed to be. 
 
Developing a character is all well and good as long as what you're doing with him isn't contrary to everything he's always been. 
 
 
And really, why would we want to add character to the Juggernaut in the first place?  So that he's more interesting when we have him on a team book?  How interesting he is on a team book doesn't matter if you don't put him on the team in the first place.  There are other large villains who don't give a crap about anybody.  There is no reason to force Juggernaut's round self into this square peg that is the designated large mook.
#11 Posted by NodNolan (108 posts) - - Show Bio

You speak as if Juggernaut hasn't got a history of fluctuating power levels, or history of flirting on the side of the angels. 
 
The fact is Juggernaut is ripe to attempt to convert onto the good side, just look at his history with Amber Hunt and on other occasions.

#12 Edited by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio
@NodNolan said:

" You speak as if Juggernaut hasn't got a history of fluctuating power levels, or history of flirting on the side of the angels.  The fact is Juggernaut is ripe to attempt to convert onto the good side, just look at his history with Amber Hunt and on other occasions. "

 
A history? Until Austin got a hold of him and he was suddenly not Unstoppable anymore the only times his power levels had fluctuated were clearly defined. Like trying to share the power of the Gem with Black Tom. Austin never bothered to explain it. It took Frank Teri coming along and coming up with a plausible excuse. 
 
And now even that is being ignored...well just because.  And what flirting did he do with the side of the Angels that did not require completely changing his personality and retconning his history?  And that horrid abomination was undone by a series of Authors. Not even Parker is saying The Juggernaut wants to be a good guy . Or is "ripe" for anything.
 
As for Amber Hunt? Having a girlfriend does not suddenly make you a good guy. He tried to kill people because of her. His own teammates nonetheless.
#13 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@NodNolan said:

"You speak as if Juggernaut hasn't got a history of fluctuating power levels, or history of flirting on the side of the angels.  The fact is Juggernaut is ripe to attempt to convert onto the good side, just look at his history with Amber Hunt and on other occasions. "


Yeah, Juggernaut's power levels change all the time and he's been a good guy on occation but if you look at the stories where he was depowered (New Excalibur and Chuck Austen's Uncanny X-Men) vs the stories where he was a villain and uber powerful....well I'm not gonna stand here and try to say that every powered up bad guy Juggernaut comic was awesome but all of New Excalibur and Austen's X-Men was garbage. 
 
Why would you want to go back to that? 
 
Besides, the last time Juggernaut saw the X-Men, he told them not to follow him because they'd regret it and the last time Xavier contacted him, he essentially warned Cain to stay away from the X-Men or he'd mentally put him in a coma.  They're not friends.  The Juggernaut doesn't want to be a good guy. 
 
Parker is just writing him as the selfish brute he always is...only now when Luke "where's my money honey" Cage pushes a button, he falls over.  Don't try to tell me that's anything more than a plot device to keep the Juggernaut from running away and don't try to tell me that Parker is pushing some major characterization over here.  He just wants to be able to have a big red armored dude on the page. 
 
If he really wants a big, strong, selfish, stoppable dude on his team there are plenty of other choices.  If he really wants Juggernaut on the team, he ought to come up with some real motivation for him to stick around.  Instead, we get a rant from him about how boring he thinks the Juggernaut is when he's not being written by Chuck Austen which doesn't make anybody smart want to buy his book.
#14 Edited by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:


  Parker is just writing him as the selfish brute he always is...only now when Luke "where's my money honey" Cage pushes a button, he falls over.  Don't try to tell me that's anything more than a plot device to keep the Juggernaut from running away and don't try to tell me that Parker is pushing some major characterization over here.  He just wants to be able to have a big red armored dude on the page.  If he really wants a big, strong, selfish, stoppable dude on his team there are plenty of other choices.  If he really wants Juggernaut on the team, he ought to come up with some real motivation for him to stick around.  Instead, we get a rant from him about how boring he thinks the Juggernaut is when he's not being written by Chuck Austen which doesn't make anybody smart want to buy his book. "


Yeah it's funny how all this "characterization" and "making him interesting" amounts to The Juggernaut just being a third rate brick with a bad attitude.  
 
So by keeping Cain a bad guy but at a fraction of his power you have or will manage to piss off every conceivable fan base for the character (however small the Huggernaut one was). So who exactly is this aimed at?
#15 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Brian Michael Bendis.

#16 Posted by Jake Fury (19265 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, they do it every time he joins a hero team. Get used to it.
#17 Edited by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:

" Ah, they do it every time he joins a hero team. Get used to it. "

 
How many things are wrong with your statement? Where do we begin?
#18 Posted by Jake Fury (19265 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vendel:  
Eh? 
#19 Posted by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio

Vendel is saying Juggernaut, since he's a villain, shouldn't be on a hero team in the first place. 
 
Considering both books that cast him as a member of a heroic team were awful, I'd have to agree.

#20 Posted by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio
@Zoom said:
" Vendel is saying Juggernaut, since he's a villain, shouldn't be on a hero team in the first place.  Considering both books that cast him as a member of a heroic team were awful, I'd have to agree. "
 
Not to mention the idea of arbitrarily changing a characters  powers to fit your story is extremely hack. 
 
Honestly if Parker wanted a 3rd rate villain who runs at stuff he should have used Rhino or Bulldozer. As it is you have turned one of the truly frightening powerhouses in the Marvel Universe into a joke. 
#21 Edited by Omega Ray Jay (7968 posts) - - Show Bio

I had heard the Thunderbolts got off to a good start, but this sounds a bit of a cliche thing to do with Juggs.

#22 Posted by Jake Fury (19265 posts) - - Show Bio

@Zoom said:

"Vendel is saying Juggernaut, since he's a villain, shouldn't be on a hero team in the first place.  Considering both books that cast him as a member of a heroic team were awful, I'd have to agree. "


 

Well, to be fair this version of the Thunderbolts has a mixture of heroes and villains. I agree with you and Vendel that every time in the past that Juggy decides to walk on the side of angels or in this case had it decided for him that his depowerment leaves a bit to be desired.  
 
With that being said I'm willing to give Parker a chance since there's only been a couple of issues. I'm a big fan of his work on Agents of Atlas and think he can do some good things with this team if he's given the chance.  
 
Don't get me wrong I'm a fan of the classic, fully powered Juggernaut over a watered down version any day of the week. But I also want to see more of him. If that means I only get a watered down version but he's featured monthly then so be it.   
 
#23 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6023 posts) - - Show Bio

Why I start to think about what Cyttorak said more often ...

#24 Posted by Jugganuat (9 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch: Is that you from Youtube with all the killer videos?
#25 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6023 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jugganuat: ? What killer videos ?
#26 Edited by Zoom (14668 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jake Fury said:

"I'm willing to give Parker a chance since there's only been a couple of issues. I'm a big fan of his work on Agents of Atlas and think he can do some good things with this team if he's given the chance."


Fair enough.  I hear  Agents of Atlas is pretty fun.
 
 

@Vendel

said:

"Not to mention the idea of arbitrarily changing a characters  powers to fit your story is extremely hack.   Honestly if Parker wanted a 3rd rate villain who runs at stuff he should have used Rhino or Bulldozer."


Indeed.     
 
Rhino, I don't particularly want on the Thunderbolts because I fear he'd also be weakened (I'm really liking him in Spider-Man these days) but you gotta admit, he's got far more redemption potential than a dude who tried being powerful and tried being a hero and found he much prefered the former. 
 
Bulldozer would be even better.  The guy's begging for some characterization and having the T-Bolts go up against the rest of the Wrecking Crew at some point with Bulldozer on the team would have been fun.
#27 Posted by Jugganuat (9 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheJuggernautpunch: All the cool vids about Cain Marko... If so, we're already friends on youtube..lol, I'm Juggy313
#28 Posted by TheJuggernautpunch (6023 posts) - - Show Bio
@Jugganuat: Lol, of course I remember you, you prefer Marvelboards more, right ? I was confused a bit, because I thought you meant the videos of that troll MadnessWarriorKiller.
#29 Edited by Vendel (355 posts) - - Show Bio

Holy shit. Every time I read that page with Prof X of all people giving Cain an endorsement, I wonder just how fickle he is (or how little Marvel writers care even about recent continuity).
 
In comic book time X-Men Legacy must have been a couple weeks earlier at most. 
 
"Oh yeah I spent considerable time in Cain's head and I know he is beyond redemption. But after not interacting with him for a bit I have completely changed my mind. GOOOOOOOOOO Cain!"

#30 Posted by Black_Kn1ght (258 posts) - - Show Bio

Jeff Parker rules

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