Cain Marko, also known as the Juggernaut, is the step-brother of X-Men founder Charles Xavier and the avatar of Cyttorak. Powered by the Crimson Gem of Cyttorak, Marko is bestowed virtually limitless brute strength and durability which he mostly uses for criminal pursuits and wanton destruction. The Juggernaut is considered one of the strongest and most powerful beings on Earth.
"come on people once you guys start arguing a scan we can all see clearly in front of our eyes something is wrong"
See what?
The Unstoppable is having trouble move the Hulk? Or that he is moving him (by moving forward) but the Juggernaut's ability to do this is more than just strength
What are you saying? "
both, but I do not know where you are getting this more than just strength idea. I think you are reading to much into this."
So you think what maked the Juggernaut unstoppable when he moves is just strength and not the mystical power of Cytorrak? "
No. His strength is derived from the mystical power of Cyttorak, the two are one in the same. All of Juggs powers come from Cytorrak, without Cyttorak he is nothing. His strength and magical ability is one in the same you cannot seperate them."
Ok. I see where you are going. So if it's just strength and since Cytorrak is not omni-potent and definitely not outside his dimension, there are limits to his power, so Juggernaut can be over powered by a being that is stronger? "
It depends, but yes. An example would be a cosmic being like Galactus or someone in that League. I would argue his physical strength has certain limits, but his invulnerability has no limits. I'd say he is one of the strongest if not the strongest on Marvel Earth. And I personally think a full powered Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk. In large part due to his invulnerability. Still Juggs still has his weaknesses once you remove his helmet. But it depends on the incarnations. In the comics Jugg is practically unstoppable. While in cartoons and movies he is not as impressive."
Why would one power have limits and not others?
Cytorrak power is only limitless in his dimension. The ruby allows him to grant a avatar with his power. Even if it was his full power, it wouldn't be limitless outside his relm. If his granted strength is limited than any other power granted would be.
So which is it? All or Nothing? "
faulty reasoning "
Why?
He stated that he would be limited with strength but not his invulnerability. Why would one and not the other? If his power is limitless then it would be overall. If his powers have limit then it would be over all. Unless you both are saying the he has limits in one area and not the other. If this is so, WHY? "
His strength is limitless, as is his invulnerably to physical damage. Magic can by used to increase his strength, and his invulnerability is always there. One example is his limitless stamina. "
U took us back in a circle. U said earlier that Cytorrak was not "unlimited" in power outside his reml. U went on to say that he was "nigh unlimited" stating that he was a close to unlimited as possible (whatever that means). The point is he is not "UNLIMITED".
Then why would Juggernaut be "unlimited" in any way? "
He is. Its proven in the comics, and handbooks. He has unlimited stamina, he never has to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. He is invulnerable to physical attack. He doesn't need to be unlimited to give him those abilities. That is what you don't understand. Just because he has certain powers that are "unlimited" doesn't mean he's omnipotent, which is the connection you keep making for some reason. "
Unlimited means limitless. Simple as that. Hulk isn't limitless in strength. He has potential limitless strength but his rage puts a limit on it. Same goes for his stamina and healing factor. All regulated by his limit of rage. I feel Juggernaut's strength and resistance to damage/injury is regulated by what Cytorrak is able to give him. Like the Hulk, Juggernaut has the potential for limitless strength and invulnerability but is limited due to the fact that Cytorrak is limited in our dimension. He may not need to eat, drink or sleep, but that isn't exactly stamina. Stamina is the ability to keep going and resist fatigue. This too is regulated by the power given to him by Cytorrak, who again isn't limitless in our dimension. Nothing here has anything to do with being "omnipotent". I never used the word or suggested it.
If you disagree with anything said here. Give me a logical reason other than it is said in comics. Iknow that it is stated that the Hulk has limitless strength, but he doesn't. It been proven in comics that no power on earth can kill him, mainly because he hasn't faced one yet. But he is not immortal so he can be. I can excpet that Cytorrak's power given to Juggernaut has not been surpassed by anyone to be able to beat Juggernaut in a physical fight so far.
This isn't about who can win between Hulk and Juggernaut. Any thing suggested by anyone is just opinion. Until Marvel have these two duke it out without any plot devices and have a undisputed winner, we don't know who is. Same goes for who is stronger. All opinion. And he both have backed our opinion.
What I'm asking now has to do with Juggernaut's strenghth being limitless.
"
Its not regulated by what he is able to give him, its regulated by what he wants to give him. he can give him more if he wants to, but he doesn't. It's also somewhat regulated by Cain's desires. He wasn't given his power back in WWH until he decided that he wanted to destroy stuff again. His stamina is limitless, read any handbook. Its set in stone. He has unlimited stamina. I don't know how else to spell it out for you. As long as he has the power, he is immortal. He doesn't age, and he can't die. If that's not immortal, I don't know what is.
"come on people once you guys start arguing a scan we can all see clearly in front of our eyes something is wrong"
See what?
The Unstoppable is having trouble move the Hulk? Or that he is moving him (by moving forward) but the Juggernaut's ability to do this is more than just strength
What are you saying? "
both, but I do not know where you are getting this more than just strength idea. I think you are reading to much into this."
So you think what maked the Juggernaut unstoppable when he moves is just strength and not the mystical power of Cytorrak? "
No. His strength is derived from the mystical power of Cyttorak, the two are one in the same. All of Juggs powers come from Cytorrak, without Cyttorak he is nothing. His strength and magical ability is one in the same you cannot seperate them."
Ok. I see where you are going. So if it's just strength and since Cytorrak is not omni-potent and definitely not outside his dimension, there are limits to his power, so Juggernaut can be over powered by a being that is stronger? "
It depends, but yes. An example would be a cosmic being like Galactus or someone in that League. I would argue his physical strength has certain limits, but his invulnerability has no limits. I'd say he is one of the strongest if not the strongest on Marvel Earth. And I personally think a full powered Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk. In large part due to his invulnerability. Still Juggs still has his weaknesses once you remove his helmet. But it depends on the incarnations. In the comics Jugg is practically unstoppable. While in cartoons and movies he is not as impressive."
Why would one power have limits and not others?
Cytorrak power is only limitless in his dimension. The ruby allows him to grant a avatar with his power. Even if it was his full power, it wouldn't be limitless outside his relm. If his granted strength is limited than any other power granted would be.
So which is it? All or Nothing? "
faulty reasoning "
Why?
He stated that he would be limited with strength but not his invulnerability. Why would one and not the other? If his power is limitless then it would be overall. If his powers have limit then it would be over all. Unless you both are saying the he has limits in one area and not the other. If this is so, WHY? "
His strength is limitless, as is his invulnerably to physical damage. Magic can by used to increase his strength, and his invulnerability is always there. One example is his limitless stamina. "
U took us back in a circle. U said earlier that Cytorrak was not "unlimited" in power outside his reml. U went on to say that he was "nigh unlimited" stating that he was a close to unlimited as possible (whatever that means). The point is he is not "UNLIMITED".
Then why would Juggernaut be "unlimited" in any way? "
He is. Its proven in the comics, and handbooks. He has unlimited stamina, he never has to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. He is invulnerable to physical attack. He doesn't need to be unlimited to give him those abilities. That is what you don't understand. Just because he has certain powers that are "unlimited" doesn't mean he's omnipotent, which is the connection you keep making for some reason. "
Unlimited means limitless. Simple as that. Hulk isn't limitless in strength. He has potential limitless strength but his rage puts a limit on it. Same goes for his stamina and healing factor. All regulated by his limit of rage. I feel Juggernaut's strength and resistance to damage/injury is regulated by what Cytorrak is able to give him. Like the Hulk, Juggernaut has the potential for limitless strength and invulnerability but is limited due to the fact that Cytorrak is limited in our dimension. He may not need to eat, drink or sleep, but that isn't exactly stamina. Stamina is the ability to keep going and resist fatigue. This too is regulated by the power given to him by Cytorrak, who again isn't limitless in our dimension. Nothing here has anything to do with being "omnipotent". I never used the word or suggested it.
If you disagree with anything said here. Give me a logical reason other than it is said in comics. Iknow that it is stated that the Hulk has limitless strength, but he doesn't. It been proven in comics that no power on earth can kill him, mainly because he hasn't faced one yet. But he is not immortal so he can be. I can excpet that Cytorrak's power given to Juggernaut has not been surpassed by anyone to be able to beat Juggernaut in a physical fight so far.
This isn't about who can win between Hulk and Juggernaut. Any thing suggested by anyone is just opinion. Until Marvel have these two duke it out without any plot devices and have a undisputed winner, we don't know who is. Same goes for who is stronger. All opinion. And he both have backed our opinion.
What I'm asking now has to do with Juggernaut's strenghth being limitless.
"
Its not regulated by what he is able to give him, its regulated by what he wants to give him. he can give him more if he wants to, but he doesn't. It's also somewhat regulated by Cain's desires. He wasn't given his power back in WWH until he decided that he wanted to destroy stuff again. His stamina is limitless, read any handbook. Its set in stone. He has unlimited stamina. I don't know how else to spell it out for you. As long as he has the power, he is immortal. He doesn't age, and he can't die. If that's not immortal, I don't know what is. "
U keep saying that but never really answer the question at hand.
If Cytorrak power is limited outside his dimension, how can Juggernaut be unlimited?
Keep in mind that you already established that Cytorrak is not limitless outside his relm.
U keep saying that but never really answer the question at hand.
If Cytorrak power is limited outside his dimension, how can Juggernaut be unlimited?
Keep in mind that you already established that Cytorrak is not limitless outside his relm. "
Alpha I'm not sure we can really know the answer without more info from Marvel on the relationship between Juggernaut and Cytorrak. It is a good question though. I don't think that the Juggernaut has access to unlimited power not in the sense of say recognised Marvel cosmic heavyweights. However put him against other powerful characters like classic Thor, and he appears far more powerful.
"come on people once you guys start arguing a scan we can all see clearly in front of our eyes something is wrong"
See what?
The Unstoppable is having trouble move the Hulk? Or that he is moving him (by moving forward) but the Juggernaut's ability to do this is more than just strength
What are you saying? "
both, but I do not know where you are getting this more than just strength idea. I think you are reading to much into this."
So you think what maked the Juggernaut unstoppable when he moves is just strength and not the mystical power of Cytorrak? "
No. His strength is derived from the mystical power of Cyttorak, the two are one in the same. All of Juggs powers come from Cytorrak, without Cyttorak he is nothing. His strength and magical ability is one in the same you cannot seperate them."
Ok. I see where you are going. So if it's just strength and since Cytorrak is not omni-potent and definitely not outside his dimension, there are limits to his power, so Juggernaut can be over powered by a being that is stronger? "
It depends, but yes. An example would be a cosmic being like Galactus or someone in that League. I would argue his physical strength has certain limits, but his invulnerability has no limits. I'd say he is one of the strongest if not the strongest on Marvel Earth. And I personally think a full powered Juggernaut is stronger than Hulk. In large part due to his invulnerability. Still Juggs still has his weaknesses once you remove his helmet. But it depends on the incarnations. In the comics Jugg is practically unstoppable. While in cartoons and movies he is not as impressive."
Why would one power have limits and not others?
Cytorrak power is only limitless in his dimension. The ruby allows him to grant a avatar with his power. Even if it was his full power, it wouldn't be limitless outside his relm. If his granted strength is limited than any other power granted would be.
So which is it? All or Nothing? "
faulty reasoning "
Why?
He stated that he would be limited with strength but not his invulnerability. Why would one and not the other? If his power is limitless then it would be overall. If his powers have limit then it would be over all. Unless you both are saying the he has limits in one area and not the other. If this is so, WHY? "
His strength is limitless, as is his invulnerably to physical damage. Magic can by used to increase his strength, and his invulnerability is always there. One example is his limitless stamina. "
U took us back in a circle. U said earlier that Cytorrak was not "unlimited" in power outside his reml. U went on to say that he was "nigh unlimited" stating that he was a close to unlimited as possible (whatever that means). The point is he is not "UNLIMITED".
Then why would Juggernaut be "unlimited" in any way? "
He is. Its proven in the comics, and handbooks. He has unlimited stamina, he never has to eat, drink, breathe, or sleep. He is invulnerable to physical attack. He doesn't need to be unlimited to give him those abilities. That is what you don't understand. Just because he has certain powers that are "unlimited" doesn't mean he's omnipotent, which is the connection you keep making for some reason. "
Unlimited means limitless. Simple as that. Hulk isn't limitless in strength. He has potential limitless strength but his rage puts a limit on it. Same goes for his stamina and healing factor. All regulated by his limit of rage. I feel Juggernaut's strength and resistance to damage/injury is regulated by what Cytorrak is able to give him. Like the Hulk, Juggernaut has the potential for limitless strength and invulnerability but is limited due to the fact that Cytorrak is limited in our dimension. He may not need to eat, drink or sleep, but that isn't exactly stamina. Stamina is the ability to keep going and resist fatigue. This too is regulated by the power given to him by Cytorrak, who again isn't limitless in our dimension. Nothing here has anything to do with being "omnipotent". I never used the word or suggested it.
If you disagree with anything said here. Give me a logical reason other than it is said in comics. Iknow that it is stated that the Hulk has limitless strength, but he doesn't. It been proven in comics that no power on earth can kill him, mainly because he hasn't faced one yet. But he is not immortal so he can be. I can excpet that Cytorrak's power given to Juggernaut has not been surpassed by anyone to be able to beat Juggernaut in a physical fight so far.
This isn't about who can win between Hulk and Juggernaut. Any thing suggested by anyone is just opinion. Until Marvel have these two duke it out without any plot devices and have a undisputed winner, we don't know who is. Same goes for who is stronger. All opinion. And he both have backed our opinion.
What I'm asking now has to do with Juggernaut's strenghth being limitless.
"
Its not regulated by what he is able to give him, its regulated by what he wants to give him. he can give him more if he wants to, but he doesn't. It's also somewhat regulated by Cain's desires. He wasn't given his power back in WWH until he decided that he wanted to destroy stuff again. His stamina is limitless, read any handbook. Its set in stone. He has unlimited stamina. I don't know how else to spell it out for you. As long as he has the power, he is immortal. He doesn't age, and he can't die. If that's not immortal, I don't know what is. "
U keep saying that but never really answer the question at hand.
If Cytorrak power is limited outside his dimension, how can Juggernaut be unlimited?
Keep in mind that you already established that Cytorrak is not limitless outside his relm. "
......He's not unlimited. He can't fly, he can't do alot of stuff. He go forever without eating, he has infinite stamina, and limitless durability and strength. he can use his power to give him certain limitless aspects to his powers. Cytorrak doesn't need to have unlimited power to do that. He doesn't need to eat because the magic sustains him. He doesn't need to rest because of the same reason. It's limitless, which means it can't be exhausted. Cyttorak will never run out of magical power to give him. There is also no limit to how much power cyttorak can give him to augment his strength and durability.
Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form.
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power?
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
I said the same thing like a few posts ago and I was basically told I was wrong. But whatever.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
the vishanti aren't mentioned with galactus either, even though they rival him in power. Whether or not cyttorak has limitless power outside his dimenion is immaterial. He has limitless power, and he can channel that power to juggernaut. And no, galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power; he has to eat planets.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
the vishanti aren't mentioned with galactus either, even though they rival him in power. Whether or not cyttorak has limitless power outside his dimenion is immaterial. He has limitless power, and he can channel that power to juggernaut. And no, galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power; he has to eat planets. "
No Cyttorak does not have limitless power outside his own realm, just like Mephisto does not have limitless power outside his own realm!
Here's a few pieces of simple logic for you:
First, ONLY The One Above All (or someone with the Heart of the Universe) has true limitless power! Second, if Cyttorak did have limitless power he would not be TRAPPED in his own realm! Even Juggernaut does not actually have limitless indestructibility, otherwise Onslaught could not have hurt him and Gladiator could not have hurt him.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
Here we go…
The Juggernauts magic power offers the enough strength, invulnerability and stamina to convert him in worthy Hulks thread or nightmare, so Juggernaut can´t be hurt or affected by the punches that Hulk would throw at him!!!
Hulk strength is based on his anger, but anger has a limit while juggernauts strength is based on his magic powers that not have a limit!!
It would probably final result in a stalemate until Hulks rage disappear on his desesperation for not beat him!! Juggernauts magic powers gives him unlimited strength. Hulk can reach these levels only with his rage but isn´t enough to stop or beat the Juggernaut so Hulk cannot win!
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
the vishanti aren't mentioned with galactus either, even though they rival him in power. Whether or not cyttorak has limitless power outside his dimenion is immaterial. He has limitless power, and he can channel that power to juggernaut. And no, galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power; he has to eat planets. "
No Cyttorak does not have limitless power outside his own realm, just like Mephisto does not have limitless power outside his own realm!
Here's a few pieces of simple logic for you:
First, ONLY The One Above All (or someone with the Heart of the Universe) has true limitless power! Second, if Cyttorak did have limitless power he would not be TRAPPED in his own realm! Even Juggernaut does not actually have limitless indestructibility, otherwise Onslaught could not have hurt him and Gladiator could not have hurt him. "
Gladiator doesn´t hurt him, he only throw as long...
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
the vishanti aren't mentioned with galactus either, even though they rival him in power. Whether or not cyttorak has limitless power outside his dimenion is immaterial. He has limitless power, and he can channel that power to juggernaut. And no, galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power; he has to eat planets. "
No Cyttorak does not have limitless power outside his own realm, just like Mephisto does not have limitless power outside his own realm!
Here's a few pieces of simple logic for you:
First, ONLY The One Above All (or someone with the Heart of the Universe) has true limitless power! Second, if Cyttorak did have limitless power he would not be TRAPPED in his own realm! Even Juggernaut does not actually have limitless indestructibility, otherwise Onslaught could not have hurt him and Gladiator could not have hurt him. "
here are a few pieces of simple logic for you
cyttorak and mephisto are not the same thing. That is an apples and oranges comparison no, the one above all is the only one that's omnipotent. Cyttorak can have limitless mystical power, he's not the only one that does. He's not trapped in his own realm, he's been seen outside it. Onslaught doesn't make sense on many levels, and juggernaut has never met Gladiator.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
Marvel has stated this about Hulkster too. Doesn't make it true. But you guys can't admit this about Juggernaut.
Alpha's point is valid. If your source isn;t limitless, then you are not.
U keep saying that but never really answer the question at hand.
If Cytorrak power is limited outside his dimension, how can Juggernaut be unlimited?
Keep in mind that you already established that Cytorrak is not limitless outside his relm. "
Alpha I'm not sure we can really know the answer without more info from Marvel on the relationship between Juggernaut and Cytorrak. It is a good question though. I don't think that the Juggernaut has access to unlimited power not in the sense of say recognised Marvel cosmic heavyweights. However put him against other powerful characters like classic Thor, and he appears far more powerful.
"
U r the first person to even begin to feel that Alpha has a valid question. Those Jugg fans can't even do that. All they see is that to question raised scare them. And they can't have that. None of them has even addressed the question. They keep regurgitating the same old statements "Marvel says". Marvel says a lot of things. Like the Hulk having limitless strength. We know this is true in an abstract way, but really, how angry can het get?. Alpha has repeated over and over again (and human_jugg even admitted to about Cytorrak) that you can't be limitless if your source isn't. But they go back to "Marvel says". Pathetic if you ask me.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
Here we go…
The Juggernauts magic power offers the enough strength, invulnerability and stamina to convert him in worthy Hulks thread or nightmare, so Juggernaut can´t be hurt or affected by the punches that Hulk would throw at him!!!
Hulk strength is based on his anger, but anger has a limit while juggernauts strength is based on his magic powers that not have a limit!!
It would probably final result in a stalemate until Hulks rage disappear on his desesperation for not beat him!! Juggernauts magic powers gives him unlimited strength. Hulk can reach these levels only with his rage but isn´t enough to stop or beat the Juggernaut so Hulk cannot win!
"
Read the posts, no one said the Hulk can beat Juggernaut, we merely said he is stronger and like I said before, yes the Juggernaut's power is based on magic but Cytorrak has a limit outside his dimension, the Juggernaut has limitless magical power for his invulnerability, force fields and unstoppable forward motion but not strength, if he had limitless strength he would have defeated Green Scar in no time during WWH, also there is not a limit to rage, the Hulk has limitless strength potential, his limit is that he needs to get angrier to increase his strength and to reach an incredibly high strength level like the Sentry would take him a long time. Magic power does have a limit, Cytorrak is not omnipotent, he can only give Juggernaut that much power but not limitless strength, the only Juggernaut that is stronger than the Hulk is Trion Juggernaut, and it would take the Hulk a really long time to become stronger than Trion Juggs, the Juggernaut doesn't have limitless strength, they just don't know his limit, many Marvel characters have been said to have limitless strength, Thor, Hercules and Gladiator have all been said to have limitless strength but they don't, they just don't know their limits, in Marvel there are feats to measure strength, if someone declares they have limitless strength with no particular feats to back it up than he does not have limitless strength, the Juggernaut does not even have enough strength feats higher than Hulk's, Hercules's or Thor. Just because you don't know how strong he is doesn't mean he has limitless strength.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
Here we go…
The Juggernauts magic power offers the enough strength, invulnerability and stamina to convert him in worthy Hulks thread or nightmare, so Juggernaut can´t be hurt or affected by the punches that Hulk would throw at him!!!
Hulk strength is based on his anger, but anger has a limit while juggernauts strength is based on his magic powers that not have a limit!!
It would probably final result in a stalemate until Hulks rage disappear on his desesperation for not beat him!! Juggernauts magic powers gives him unlimited strength. Hulk can reach these levels only with his rage but isn´t enough to stop or beat the Juggernaut so Hulk cannot win!
"
Read the posts, no one said the Hulk can beat Juggernaut, we merely said he is stronger and like I said before, yes the Juggernaut's power is based on magic but Cytorrak has a limit outside his dimension, the Juggernaut has limitless magical power for his invulnerability, force fields and unstoppable forward motion but not strength, if he had limitless strength he would have defeated Green Scar in no time during WWH, also there is not a limit to rage, the Hulk has limitless strength potential, his limit is that he needs to get angrier to increase his strength and to reach an incredibly high strength level like the Sentry would take him a long time. Magic power does have a limit, Cytorrak is not omnipotent, he can only give Juggernaut that much power but not limitless strength, the only Juggernaut that is stronger than the Hulk is Trion Juggernaut, and it would take the Hulk a really long time to become stronger than Trion Juggs, the Juggernaut doesn't have limitless strength, they just don't know his limit, many Marvel characters have been said to have limitless strength, Thor, Hercules and Gladiator have all been said to have limitless strength but they don't, they just don't know their limits, in Marvel there are feats to measure strength, if someone declares they have limitless strength with no particular feats to back it up than he does not have limitless strength, the Juggernaut does not even have enough strength feats higher than Hulk's, Hercules's or Thor. Just because you don't know how strong he is doesn't mean he has limitless strength."
U make good points too, but I don't think ghe has limitles anything. Magic isn't limitless, it just seems that way cause it effects reality.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
Here we go…
The Juggernauts magic power offers the enough strength, invulnerability and stamina to convert him in worthy Hulks thread or nightmare, so Juggernaut can´t be hurt or affected by the punches that Hulk would throw at him!!!
Hulk strength is based on his anger, but anger has a limit while juggernauts strength is based on his magic powers that not have a limit!!
It would probably final result in a stalemate until Hulks rage disappear on his desesperation for not beat him!! Juggernauts magic powers gives him unlimited strength. Hulk can reach these levels only with his rage but isn´t enough to stop or beat the Juggernaut so Hulk cannot win!
"
Read the posts, no one said the Hulk can beat Juggernaut, we merely said he is stronger and like I said before, yes the Juggernaut's power is based on magic but Cytorrak has a limit outside his dimension, the Juggernaut has limitless magical power for his invulnerability, force fields and unstoppable forward motion but not strength, if he had limitless strength he would have defeated Green Scar in no time during WWH, also there is not a limit to rage, the Hulk has limitless strength potential, his limit is that he needs to get angrier to increase his strength and to reach an incredibly high strength level like the Sentry would take him a long time. Magic power does have a limit, Cytorrak is not omnipotent, he can only give Juggernaut that much power but not limitless strength, the only Juggernaut that is stronger than the Hulk is Trion Juggernaut, and it would take the Hulk a really long time to become stronger than Trion Juggs, the Juggernaut doesn't have limitless strength, they just don't know his limit, many Marvel characters have been said to have limitless strength, Thor, Hercules and Gladiator have all been said to have limitless strength but they don't, they just don't know their limits, in Marvel there are feats to measure strength, if someone declares they have limitless strength with no particular feats to back it up than he does not have limitless strength, the Juggernaut does not even have enough strength feats higher than Hulk's, Hercules's or Thor. Just because you don't know how strong he is doesn't mean he has limitless strength."
U make good points too, but I don't think ghe has limitles anything. Magic isn't limitless, it just seems that way cause it effects reality. "
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
Marvel has stated this about Hulkster too. Doesn't make it true. But you guys can't admit this about Juggernaut.
Alpha's point is valid. If your source isn;t limitless, then you are not. "
his source is limitless in the sense that he has limitless mystical power, he's not unlimited in the sense that he's omnipotent.
"Wow, this thread has driveled down to this. Right now this is all speculation, It all sounds logical, but there is no solid evidence to back up the last couple posts"
What exactly? That Cytorrak is only limitless in power in the Crimson Cosmos?
Cause so far, no one has argued that is not correct.
The logic comes i that if that is correct, then why is everyone saying that Juggernaut has limitless power? "
I was mainly referring to this :
the human Juggernaut said:
"Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form. "
your statement is wrong. Simple as that.
"
about his power outside his realm not inside.
"
yes, and your wrong about juggernaut not having limitless power on any level, since marvel has stated clearly that he does. "
The Juggernaut has limitless invulnerability but not strength, if he did have limitless strength he would have defeated the Hulk a long time ago. If Cytorrak had limitless power outside his dimension he would be one of the most powerful beings in the Universe, he isn't even mentioned along with Galactus, the Silver Surfer has more power than the Juggernaut and Galactus doesn't need some dimension to allow him to have limitless power. "
Here we go…
The Juggernauts magic power offers the enough strength, invulnerability and stamina to convert him in worthy Hulks thread or nightmare, so Juggernaut can´t be hurt or affected by the punches that Hulk would throw at him!!!
Hulk strength is based on his anger, but anger has a limit while juggernauts strength is based on his magic powers that not have a limit!!
It would probably final result in a stalemate until Hulks rage disappear on his desesperation for not beat him!! Juggernauts magic powers gives him unlimited strength. Hulk can reach these levels only with his rage but isn´t enough to stop or beat the Juggernaut so Hulk cannot win!
"
Read the posts, no one said the Hulk can beat Juggernaut, we merely said he is stronger and like I said before, yes the Juggernaut's power is based on magic but Cytorrak has a limit outside his dimension, the Juggernaut has limitless magical power for his invulnerability, force fields and unstoppable forward motion but not strength, if he had limitless strength he would have defeated Green Scar in no time during WWH, also there is not a limit to rage, the Hulk has limitless strength potential, his limit is that he needs to get angrier to increase his strength and to reach an incredibly high strength level like the Sentry would take him a long time. Magic power does have a limit, Cytorrak is not omnipotent, he can only give Juggernaut that much power but not limitless strength, the only Juggernaut that is stronger than the Hulk is Trion Juggernaut, and it would take the Hulk a really long time to become stronger than Trion Juggs, the Juggernaut doesn't have limitless strength, they just don't know his limit, many Marvel characters have been said to have limitless strength, Thor, Hercules and Gladiator have all been said to have limitless strength but they don't, they just don't know their limits, in Marvel there are feats to measure strength, if someone declares they have limitless strength with no particular feats to back it up than he does not have limitless strength, the Juggernaut does not even have enough strength feats higher than Hulk's, Hercules's or Thor. Just because you don't know how strong he is doesn't mean he has limitless strength."
no, they say that they don't know what their limit is, not that they have limitless strength. Marvel has explicitly said that juggernaut has limitless strength. You still fail to understand the difference between being able to grant limitless physical power and omnipotence. And as for juggernaut inreasing his strength, read the juggernaut one shot or 8th day. He can increase it. As you can see here, they say "limitless energies of cyttorak", not "energies that have no known limit" And believe it or not, yes, what marvel says has more weight than alpha's failure to understand a concept.
After doing a little backtracking, I came up with some interesting questions I'd like to know. So here I go.
Vance Astro said:
Marvel shows how strong a character is with feats..no feats..no strength.If you are on Hulk's level of strength and have no feats to prove that..there would have to be statement in comics or the handbooks that say you are that strong or you have to be a higher being like a Celestial or an Elder in which we would automatically know you are unmatched in strength.
"
Do you have any empirical or authoritative evidence to corroborate this statement -- the bold and all? If so will you please post it? I would like to read something that verifies this straight from the source of the company. I raise this question after I realized the gravity of the statement you made below.
Vance Astro said:
Your not stating an opinion.Your presenting an opinion as fact.I already gave my point a view.Just not to you.You just keep coming in here saying random things that don't make any sense or aren't true.So please just stop."
In all fairness, I think you should be held accountable to the same standards that you demand from other and anything else is automatically credited as hypocrisy. Point for point and fact for fact. The statements posted in the first quote are presented as fact and I'd just like to give you a chance to clear this up or solidify it so at least in my mind their will be no room for further speculation or reason for debate.
As far as some of those feats go, the mean by which he achieved them is very speculative. For example, the Hulk destroyed an asteroid twice the size of Earth with a single punch. However, he was propelled with the aid of an anti-magnetic jet pack, which could leave inquiring thinkers wondering if that was actually a testament of strength, durability or both. The Champion of the Universe has replicated a similar feat, albeit powered by the Power Gem, with only the acceleration of gravity to launch him towards direct victim. I'm really curious as if this was an act of raw power by any means, however I am wondering If anyone would question whether or not the Juggernaut's has the capacity to accomplish a comparable feat given the same opportunity, equipment, circumstances, etc.? My position in this thread has been so far, and will remain that potential is the ultimate answer to strength capacity and not feats... we all know the potential is limitless so...
Alpha said:
"Cytorraks power is limitless in side his relm, but not outside. So to anyone outside, he can not grant limitless power. SO, Juggernaut does not have limitless power on any level.
That's what I'm stating.
Not if he need to eat or if he needs to be omnipotent. Or if he gets gas after dairy products.
Simple deductive reasoning.
Here is an example: JUST AN EXAMPLE:
In the state of Maryland my power is limitless, but in the state of North Carolina my power is limited. You live in North Carolina and want to barrow as much power I can give. Since my power is limited in your state, any power I give you will not be limitless, cause I'm not limitless in your state.
Now exchange Me for Cytorrak, Maryland for the Crimson Cosmos, You for Juggernaut and North Carolina for Earth 616. And that's what I'm saying.
Now, either you disagree and feel that Cytorrak's power is limitless everywhere or you agree that he is limited outside his relm. If its the latter, then Juggernaut can not be limitless in any way, state or form"
I really like your willingness to step outside the norm on this topic and try to relate points through theoretical stories... yes there is a however. I think you are over reaching with this one. I think a more consistent example would be Cytorrak being the USA and the Juggernaut being the US Embassy in another country. I know you are much to smart for me to have to embellish that in detail.
That all the questions and statement I have for now. TTFN. Ta ta for now. *Bounce bounce.* LOL.
I think that in some cases, if a character doesn't have a feat to show that he's stronger than the next, it's OK to say he isn't that strong. But, it doesn't apply for everyone. Thanos and Galactus are perfect examples. It's kinda like saying 'just because he can't do it, doesn't mean he can't.'
"I think that in some cases, if a character doesn't have a feat to show that he's stronger than the next, it's OK to say he isn't that strong. But, it doesn't apply for everyone. Thanos and Galactus are perfect examples. It's kinda like saying 'just because he can't do it, doesn't mean he can't.' "
That was interesting as heck... I'm still trying to figure out what it means, but I liked it. LOL.
Edit 14 minutes later: Ok, I understand now. Peace
I have always wondered just how strong Juggernaut is myself, and as far as I can tell he is equal to Hulk, since in the WWH Hulk series Juggy and Hulk came to a stalemate which only ended because Hulk used Juggy's unstoppable forward motion against him. I'm unsure how some of you can state that Juggernaut won, when clearly Hulk outsmarted Juggy and got him out of the picture, I guess some on these boards just have no comic knowledge. Anyhow Juggy proves at this point that he is equal to WWH Hulk whom has been stated as the strongest Hulk yet, also Thor and Juggy have fought a few times as well and each time have proven to be equal in strength, Juggy even states it. However Thor has defeated him on the two accounts that I atleast know of. Once by using his "God-Blast" and another by first shutting juggy's invulnerability down through magic and then beating Juggy down, then when the magic wears off, Thor finds himself unable to harm juggy so he uses his hammer to tie up the wrist of Juggy and send him into space. Though Juggy lost both times, he did knock out Thor temporarily in the first fight, and proved to be physically equal, now in the hulk encyclopedia and various comics I have seen, it has been stated and seen that Thor and Hulk have stalemated every time they have fought. (Don't try and argue it though I don't see how you can, but I am sure some Thor fan boy will) Now Hulk and Thor have been listed at the 100 ton mark, although Hulk has exceeded as far as I know, but im unsure if Thor has. Anyway this leads me to believe Juggy is around the same mark, I have never read anywhere that he can increase his strength though so I don't know where that notion comes from. But anyway I like Jggernaut alot he is one of my favorite characters, I enjoyed his fight with Venom thouroughly (If you know comics you should get a chuckle from this), however I am still trying to get over the lost to Nimrod, Noooo. In closing, try not to be so biast on here and know your info please, I can't stress the people whom know so little and try to talk. in the words of juggy - UNSTOPPABLE !
"I have always wondered just how strong Juggernaut is myself, and as far as I can tell he is equal to Hulk, since in the WWH Hulk series Juggy and Hulk came to a stalemate which only ended because Hulk used Juggy's unstoppable forward motion against him. I'm unsure how some of you can state that Juggernaut won, when clearly Hulk outsmarted Juggy and got him out of the picture, I guess some on these boards just have no comic knowledge. Anyhow Juggy proves at this point that he is equal to WWH Hulk whom has been stated as the strongest Hulk yet, also Thor and Juggy have fought a few times as well and each time have proven to be equal in strength, Juggy even states it. However Thor has defeated him on the two accounts that I atleast know of. Once by using his "God-Blast" and another by first shutting juggy's invulnerability down through magic and then beating Juggy down, then when the magic wears off, Thor finds himself unable to harm juggy so he uses his hammer to tie up the wrist of Juggy and send him into space. Though Juggy lost both times, he did knock out Thor temporarily in the first fight, and proved to be physically equal, now in the hulk encyclopedia and various comics I have seen, it has been stated and seen that Thor and Hulk have stalemated every time they have fought. (Don't try and argue it though I don't see how you can, but I am sure some Thor fan boy will) Now Hulk and Thor have been listed at the 100 ton mark, although Hulk has exceeded as far as I know, but im unsure if Thor has. Anyway this leads me to believe Juggy is around the same mark, I have never read anywhere that he can increase his strength though so I don't know where that notion comes from. But anyway I like Jggernaut alot he is one of my favorite characters, I enjoyed his fight with Venom thouroughly (If you know comics you should get a chuckle from this), however I am still trying to get over the lost to Nimrod, Noooo. In closing, try not to be so biast on here and know your info please, I can't stress the people whom know so little and try to talk. in the words of juggy - UNSTOPPABLE !
"I have always wondered just how strong Juggernaut is myself, and as far as I can tell he is equal to Hulk, since in the WWH Hulk series Juggy and Hulk came to a stalemate which only ended because Hulk used Juggy's unstoppable forward motion against him. I'm unsure how some of you can state that Juggernaut won, when clearly Hulk outsmarted Juggy and got him out of the picture, I guess some on these boards just have no comic knowledge. Anyhow Juggy proves at this point that he is equal to WWH Hulk whom has been stated as the strongest Hulk yet, also Thor and Juggy have fought a few times as well and each time have proven to be equal in strength, Juggy even states it. However Thor has defeated him on the two accounts that I atleast know of. Once by using his "God-Blast" and another by first shutting juggy's invulnerability down through magic and then beating Juggy down, then when the magic wears off, Thor finds himself unable to harm juggy so he uses his hammer to tie up the wrist of Juggy and send him into space. Though Juggy lost both times, he did knock out Thor temporarily in the first fight, and proved to be physically equal, now in the hulk encyclopedia and various comics I have seen, it has been stated and seen that Thor and Hulk have stalemated every time they have fought. (Don't try and argue it though I don't see how you can, but I am sure some Thor fan boy will) Now Hulk and Thor have been listed at the 100 ton mark, although Hulk has exceeded as far as I know, but im unsure if Thor has. Anyway this leads me to believe Juggy is around the same mark, I have never read anywhere that he can increase his strength though so I don't know where that notion comes from. But anyway I like Jggernaut alot he is one of my favorite characters, I enjoyed his fight with Venom thouroughly (If you know comics you should get a chuckle from this), however I am still trying to get over the lost to Nimrod, Noooo. In closing, try not to be so biast on here and know your info please, I can't stress the people whom know so little and try to talk. in the words of juggy - UNSTOPPABLE !
"
"
Your point is? I mean that has nothing to do with comic knowledge its just a paper clip or something, it does not invalidate anything I have said. Just that Marvel HQ thinks Juggernaut is stronger, good for them. YAY!!! ... is that what you wanted?
"I have always wondered just how strong Juggernaut is myself, and as far as I can tell he is equal to Hulk, since in the WWH Hulk series Juggy and Hulk came to a stalemate which only ended because Hulk used Juggy's unstoppable forward motion against him. I'm unsure how some of you can state that Juggernaut won, when clearly Hulk outsmarted Juggy and got him out of the picture, I guess some on these boards just have no comic knowledge. Anyhow Juggy proves at this point that he is equal to WWH Hulk whom has been stated as the strongest Hulk yet, also Thor and Juggy have fought a few times as well and each time have proven to be equal in strength, Juggy even states it. However Thor has defeated him on the two accounts that I atleast know of. Once by using his "God-Blast" and another by first shutting juggy's invulnerability down through magic and then beating Juggy down, then when the magic wears off, Thor finds himself unable to harm juggy so he uses his hammer to tie up the wrist of Juggy and send him into space. Though Juggy lost both times, he did knock out Thor temporarily in the first fight, and proved to be physically equal, now in the hulk encyclopedia and various comics I have seen, it has been stated and seen that Thor and Hulk have stalemated every time they have fought. (Don't try and argue it though I don't see how you can, but I am sure some Thor fan boy will) Now Hulk and Thor have been listed at the 100 ton mark, although Hulk has exceeded as far as I know, but im unsure if Thor has. Anyway this leads me to believe Juggy is around the same mark, I have never read anywhere that he can increase his strength though so I don't know where that notion comes from. But anyway I like Jggernaut alot he is one of my favorite characters, I enjoyed his fight with Venom thouroughly (If you know comics you should get a chuckle from this), however I am still trying to get over the lost to Nimrod, Noooo. In closing, try not to be so biast on here and know your info please, I can't stress the people whom know so little and try to talk. in the words of juggy - UNSTOPPABLE !
"
"
Your point is? I mean that has nothing to do with comic knowledge its just a paper clip or something, it does not invalidate anything I have said. Just that Marvel HQ thinks Juggernaut is stronger, good for them. YAY!!! ... is that what you wanted? "
....Who publishes the comics that have hulk and juggernaut again? oh yea, thats right, marvel comics. That was actually in a comic book too, if you have ever read one. They answer questions readers have.
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