Juggernaut's Biggest Weakness...

#1 Edited by The_Assassin_ (17437 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I understand the whole "Once he starts moving, nothing can stop him" thing. Well this just means it takes a while for him to stop. Lets say you are being trailed by Juggernaut and he wants to kill you. Couldn't you just oh I don't know... find a cliff overlooking the sea and get him angry so he charges you, side step (don't try to trip him moron) and watch as big bad Juggernaut goes falling into a watery grave... because I kinda doubt he can swim with all that Armor on...
 
Give me your opinion on this:

#2 Edited by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mikepool: That's more the movie, regular Jugs just charges through anything and can stop virtually instantaneously. The Crimson Gem of Cytorrak is more powerful than Newtonian physics in the MU.
#3 Posted by The_Assassin_ (17437 posts) - - Show Bio

Ah, because it seemed more like a flaw than a power/ability

#4 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mikepool: Yeh, I get what you're saying, but non-nerfed Juggs is basically invincible. Most of the times he's been beaten can sadly be called PIS.
#5 Posted by Lance Uppercut (23245 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mikepool said:
" Ok, I understand the whole "Once he starts moving, nothing can stop him" thing. Well this just means it takes a while for him to stop. Lets say you are being trailed by Juggernaut and he wants to kill you. Couldn't you just oh I don't know... find a cliff overlooking the sea and get him angry so he charges you, side step (don't try to trip him moron) and watch as big bad Juggernaut goes falling into a watery grave... because I kinda doubt he can swim with all that Armor on...  Give me your opinion on this: "
Technically, Juggernaut doesn't have to breath. The only reason he does in T-Bolts is because he's been nerfed recently to make, y'know, the team beatable. Also, his power used to be able to make him mystically float in water. Now he actually does have to swim. 
#6 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut is an incredibly awesome swimmer and has also been known to walk though air.  
 
Plus he doesn't need to breath lol, no watery death unless its magical reality warping water, and even then, its going to have to be more potent than what ever that puny sissy place Oblivion is. 

Moderator
#7 Posted by Inevitable (709 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mikepool said:
" Ok, I understand the whole "Once he starts moving, nothing can stop him" thing. Well this just means it takes a while for him to stop. Lets say you are being trailed by Juggernaut and he wants to kill you. Couldn't you just oh I don't know... find a cliff overlooking the sea and get him angry so he charges you, side step (don't try to trip him moron) and watch as big bad Juggernaut goes falling into a watery grave... because I kinda doubt he can swim with all that Armor on...  Give me your opinion on this: "
No need for doubts, as Cyttorak's enchantment allows him to swim.
#8 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut's biggest weakness, is writers who aren't creative or don't understand the original purpose or appeal of the Juggernaut, or maybe they do, and they just want to blend him into a generic character or something. 

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#9 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" Juggernaut's biggest weakness, is writers who aren't creative or don't understand the original purpose or appeal of the Juggernaut, or maybe they do, and they just want to blend him into a generic character or something.  "
In fairness though, how can you beat full power Juggs with a regular X-Men team?  (I say X-Men because he's primarily an X-villain).
#10 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio

Bwhahah, thats great how three posters posted the same thing at the exact same time. 

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#11 Edited by The_Assassin_ (17437 posts) - - Show Bio

I've only read a few comics with Juggernaut in them so really I'm just basing what I know about him off the Movies. I'm more of a Deadpool guy.

#12 Posted by Inevitable (709 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC: That's what you get when you create an invincible character.
#13 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @SC said:
" Juggernaut's biggest weakness, is writers who aren't creative or don't understand the original purpose or appeal of the Juggernaut, or maybe they do, and they just want to blend him into a generic character or something.  "
In fairness though, how can you beat full power Juggs with a regular X-Men team?  (I say X-Men because he's primarily an X-villain). "
 
Telepathy of course and team work. Longshot, Dazzler, Psylocke, Rogue did it once, and thats a pretty small team, thats not too overpowered. I think one other character might have been there? No one overpowered though. (Rogue was a pretty decent powerhouse back then though of course too)
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#14 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio
@Inevitable said:
" @SC: That's what you get when you create an invincible character. "
 
In what context do you mean my friend, I am not sure which part of my post you are referring to sorry. 
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#15 Posted by Inevitable (709 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @Inevitable said:
" @SC: That's what you get when you create an invincible character. "
 In what context do you mean my friend, I am not sure which part of my post you are referring to sorry.  "
The reason why they make him powerless. He is just too strong  for a non-conqueror a la Doom type.
#16 Posted by FadeToBlackBolt (23334 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @SC said:
" Juggernaut's biggest weakness, is writers who aren't creative or don't understand the original purpose or appeal of the Juggernaut, or maybe they do, and they just want to blend him into a generic character or something.  "
In fairness though, how can you beat full power Juggs with a regular X-Men team?  (I say X-Men because he's primarily an X-villain). "
 Telepathy of course and team work. Longshot, Dazzler, Psylocke, Rogue did it once, and thats a pretty small team, thats not too overpowered. I think one other character might have been there? No one overpowered though. (Rogue was a pretty decent powerhouse back then though of course too) "
But let's be honest, without a plot device, there's no way Juggs is going to surrender his helmet. A thunder clap is sufficient to drop Longshot, Dazzler and Betsy, and Rogue should have been put down with a punch. Full power Juggs, not including 8th Day/Trion etc... is beyond WW Hulk in strength.
#17 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio
@Inevitable said:
" The reason why they make him powerless. He is just too strong  for a non-conqueror a la Doom type. "
 
I tend to disagree depending on how we both personally view Doom. A dozen X-Men stories demonstrate that strength isn't everything. to me its more about wishing to use a mid level popular and recognizable character more often, as for the reason he is often depowered. Funnily enough this tends to coincide with some writers who have written him this way lol
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#18 Posted by Jake Fury (18643 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @SC said:
" @FadeToBlackBolt said:
" @SC said:
" Juggernaut's biggest weakness, is writers who aren't creative or don't understand the original purpose or appeal of the Juggernaut, or maybe they do, and they just want to blend him into a generic character or something.  "
In fairness though, how can you beat full power Juggs with a regular X-Men team?  (I say X-Men because he's primarily an X-villain). "
 Telepathy of course and team work. Longshot, Dazzler, Psylocke, Rogue did it once, and thats a pretty small team, thats not too overpowered. I think one other character might have been there? No one overpowered though. (Rogue was a pretty decent powerhouse back then though of course too) "
But let's be honest, without a plot device, there's no way Juggs is going to surrender his helmet. A thunder clap is sufficient to drop Longshot, Dazzler and Betsy, and Rogue should have been put down with a punch. Full power Juggs, not including 8th Day/Trion etc... is beyond WW Hulk in strength. "


 

Juggernaut is clearly outgunned by this team. You've got the combined mullets of Longshot & Rogue, Dazzler's headband and Psylocke's pink porn costume.  
#19 Edited by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio
@FadeToBlackBolt said:

"But let's be honest, without a plot device, there's no way Juggs is going to surrender his helmet. A thunder clap is sufficient to drop Longshot, Dazzler and Betsy, and Rogue should have been put down with a punch. Full power Juggs, not including 8th Day/Trion etc... is beyond WW Hulk in strength. "

 
If we are being honest, then we should acknowledge that the Juggernaut is a walking plot device. he was created to invoke a certain type story, not designed to be a character that would evolve and lead a full and varied fictional life with twists and turns and new developments, getting a new job, and then a girlfriend, and then realizing responsibility and then turning to drugs before going into rehab only to end up as a male stripper before finding out he has two sons and then entering a Arm Wrestling competition to win back enough money to send his eldest son to Karate School.  
 
He could be developed into that sort of character and has been attempted to a few times, and a thunderclap could do that, but it should be absorbed by Dazzler, she has absorbed bigger and Rogue has taken a punch from Juggernaut, and Binary and a few other heavy hitters and been okay (one time she was knocked into orbit but stayed conscious, flew back with a smile, there are other times where it took less, but thats just the nature of the game). It would be plot induced inconsistency/silliness? for her to go down too fast, especially when we consider she was on the hero team for the issue, and as always they usually are designed to win, after a struggle of some type.  There are plenty of ways for Juggs helmut to get off. Just like how Juggs manages to tag characters who are much faster then him and can fly. etc
 
I will avoid the Juggs/Hulk angle there because then we'll get a different sort of poster in here lol, plus I feel like I made my point anyway. 
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#20 Posted by Inevitable (709 posts) - - Show Bio
@SC said:
" @Inevitable said:
" The reason why they make him powerless. He is just too strong  for a non-conqueror a la Doom type. "
 I tend to disagree depending on how we both personally view Doom. A dozen X-Men stories demonstrate that strength isn't everything. to me its more about wishing to use a mid level popular and recognizable character more often, as for the reason he is often depowered. Funnily enough this tends to coincide with some writers who have written him this way lol "
Juggernaut wasn't just strength. He was magic.
#21 Posted by SC (13119 posts) - - Show Bio
@Inevitable said:
" @SC said:
" @Inevitable said:
" The reason why they make him powerless. He is just too strong  for a non-conqueror a la Doom type. "
 I tend to disagree depending on how we both personally view Doom. A dozen X-Men stories demonstrate that strength isn't everything. to me its more about wishing to use a mid level popular and recognizable character more often, as for the reason he is often depowered. Funnily enough this tends to coincide with some writers who have written him this way lol "
Juggernaut wasn't just strength. He was magic. "
 
I was just playing off your example. My main point being of course that ultimately it doesn't matter. Juggernaut presents a huge threat and danger to the X-Men. He is a shot of adrenaline. We see his shadow on the cover and we get excited, because we know the issue won't have Spider-man and Wolverine talking the whole issue in Bendis impersonating Mamet speak. Still, that doesn't make him impossible to beat, it makes him a challenge, not one that can't be overcome. As again, proven many times. I am not sure what your point is really now? Juggernaut isn't just strength and magic either? he is a hell of a snazzy dresser and he is really really, reeeeaaaallly durable? We seem to agree more than we disagree as well. lol
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#22 Posted by fedykin87 (102 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut's greatest weakness is the announcement of a new hulk event at least in recent years. Its 'interesting' that Marvel is really focusing on the Hulk Family being the biggest and strongest and how they keep diminishing (and go out of their way to announce it) the strength of Juggernaut each and every time a new hulk epic begins.

#23 Posted by PowerHerc (84031 posts) - - Show Bio

His only weakness is lack of intelligence.
#24 Posted by snajath (4 posts) - - Show Bio

Jugernaut is able to stay underwater. He doesn't need to breath at all. I'll tell you some who can: 

  • Magneto 
  • Onslaught
  • Apocalypse
Those are some. You want to know how to stop Juggie? You must SCARE him! Venom was able to make Juggie scared. Once, Juggie was even defeated by a normal man called Ulysses! That's the only way to stop the Cytorrak beast. Scare him!
#25 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@PowerHerc said:
His only weakness is lack of intelligence.
what lack of intelligence?
#26 Posted by labarith (670 posts) - - Show Bio

Juggernaut's biggest weakness is that he's technically gone good, but he has to stay "bad" to keep the crystal happy or some junk. 
 
And as such, the writers really don't know what to do with him, outside of using him as a powerhouse when SKAAR or somebody needs someone to hit.

#27 Posted by AssertingValor (5392 posts) - - Show Bio

Been stated a thousand times, his greatest weakness is psonic attacks.........
#28 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mikepool: From an observation his powers seems to be bound on earth's gravity (since if he's unstoppable then why not just go out of the earth's orbit in a straight line like light does?), he hasn't been tested on slippery surfaces or ramps yet ( I mean a carefully placed banana peel could do it), and once somebody takes out his magic (like the depowerment before he teamed up with wooden black tom) then he would hella weak.  He seems to also have a disability in bending corners while in top speed. An easy answer would be a power negator/nullifier and some heavy firepower (in that order) to kill him dead.
 
P.S. being a hero makes him weaker than al that combined.
#29 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Nerx said:
@Mikepool: From an observation his powers seems to be bound on earth's gravity (since if he's unstoppable then why not just go out of the earth's orbit in a straight line like light does?), he hasn't been tested on slippery surfaces or ramps yet ( I mean a carefully placed banana peel could do it), and once somebody takes out his magic (like the depowerment before he teamed up with wooden black tom) then he would hella weak.  He seems to also have a disability in bending corners while in top speed. An easy answer would be a power negator/nullifier and some heavy firepower (in that order) to kill him dead.
 
P.S. being a hero makes him weaker than al that combined.
no, his powers aren't bound to gravity. Read the latest issues of juggernaut in fear itself...aside from the lack of a weakness to telepathy and the hammer, that is how juggernaut is meant to be when fully powered. Unstoppable. He's the same there as he was in 8th day.
#30 Posted by Nerx (15088 posts) - - Show Bio
@the human Juggernaut: Random question: then how come he doesn't do the hulk jump (he should be able to as his strength is on par or higher) and whats up with him walking/ running if he isn't bound by gravity?
#31 Edited by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio

I have said this before. But his biggest weakness is bad writing. Can anyone tell me what his motivations are leading up to and during the Fear itself event?
 
The T-Bolts gave hints that Cain wasn't happy being under Cyttoraks sway (ridiculous notion on a few fronts BTW). And during FI it is stated he could use his Cyttorak granted powers to keep himself from being taken over by Kuurth. But chose not to.
 
What? 
 
And somehow Cyttorak can sense when the Enigma force uses Cain for half an issue and depoweres him. But is unaware Cain has been completely taken over by something else?

#32 Posted by the human Juggernaut (7224 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vendel said:
I have said this before. But his biggest weakness is bad writing. Can anyone tell me what his motivations are leading up to and during the Fear itself event?   The T-Bolts gave hints that Cain wasn't happy being under Cyttoraks sway (ridiculous notion on a few fronts BTW). And during FI it is stated he could use his Cyttorak granted powers to keep himself from being taken over by Kuurth. But chose not to.  What?   And somehow Cyttorak can sense when the Enigma force uses Cain for half an issue and depoweres him. But is unaware Cain has been completely taken over by something else?
The explanation they used is basically that since cain broke stuff while influenced by the serpent, cyttorak didn't really care. Since he fixed stuff he got upset. So cyttorak now really doesn't care what he does as long as it involves breaking stuff. As for Cain's motivation it probably came from being bored on a weak team.

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