Juggernaut as Worthy without Cyttorak permission !?

#1 Posted by TheFallenOne (1093 posts) - - Show Bio

I think that this idea is really stupid, since it downgrades the Cyttorak. They could at least make as Cyttorak alowing on purpose for Juggy to become Kuurth in order to spread destruction. But so far it apears as the Serpent basicly taken Juggy away from Cyttorak. I mean a debatable skyfather level character to take avatar of character who is on Vishanti level and above !? That's pathetic... Now i want to hear your opinion on this.
#2 Posted by Lance Bastro (4744 posts) - - Show Bio
@TheFallenOne said:
I think that this idea is really stupid, since it downgrades the Cyttorak. They could at least make as Cyttorak alowing on purpose for Juggy to become Kuurth in order to spread destruction. But so far it apears as the Serpent basicly taken Juggy away from Cyttorak. I mean a debatable skyfather level character to take avatar of character who is on Vishanti level and above !? That's pathetic... Now i want to hear your opinion on this.
cyttorak has a whole other infinite juggernaut's to maintain throughout the omniverse. one of them canceling out is nothing, because cyttorak knows that after cain is done playing with toys, he will invoke into cyttorak again... like history tells before. 
#3 Posted by Leliel (1452 posts) - - Show Bio
@Lance Bastro: Very well said not to say that probably Cyttorak can drain energy from allows Juggernaut to become Kuurth
#4 Posted by HellionVulcan (3781 posts) - - Show Bio

Its said in thunderbolts #160 Cain Marko could have used Cyttorak's power to over throw the Serpents power but Cain marko decided not to .  
 

#5 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly aside from Cyttorak being bored there never seemed to be that much of a reason for the Juggernaut so I doubt he really cares what Cain's up to so long as he isn't directly opposing him 

#6 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

looks like Cyttorak prefers not to play that game.
 
@joshmightbe said:

Honestly aside from Cyttorak being bored there never seemed to be that much of a reason for the Juggernaut so I doubt he really cares what Cain's up to so long as he isn't directly opposing him 
the reason for Juggernaut is to spread the Gospel and remind people of Cyttorak's might, especially important as his avatar on 616 Earth since that realm defied Cyttorak's reign. Cain has openly defied his Lord by working for another.
#7 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE: To be honest if Cyttorak himself got involved Fear Itself would already be over cause if the Serpent considers Thor a threat then Cyttorak is way out of his league, no disrespect to Thor but Cyttorak would slaughter him without much effort
#8 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe: he doesn't have a reason to get involved in it. though agreed if he would that would be about the gist of it.
#9 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE: It's true he doesn't have any need to get involved at the moment and I'm sure the Serpent wants to keep it that way
#10 Posted by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe
I think pretty much if one can't threaten Cyttorak, it's not his problem, and in Cyttorak's view not many could. 
He has his power, his name called upon, and his own cosmos. Really the Serpent's efforts don't step on his lawn so to speak.
#11 Posted by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio

Answer me this. How was Cyttorak unaware Cain had been completely taken over by Kuurth? Yet him being Captain Universe for like 10 minutes gets Cain depowered and on the T-Bolts? 
 
I also hate how Cyttorrak is being portrayed. It's like he has regressed form his Dr. Strange days where he was a mysterious aloof major magical player. He was called a demon and a god. To now where he is just some powerful demon who rules a hell like dimension and is only concerned with destruction?
 
And can anyone tell me what exactly is Cain's motivation in this event? If he doesn't want to be under Cyttorak's sway anymore why would he willingly let himself be taken over by Kuurth? And then proceed to do the exact same thing he would be doing as The Juggernaut?

#12 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vendel: Well Captain Universe is a force for good and Cytorrak hates that sh*t
#13 Edited by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio
@joshmightbe said:

@Vendel: Well Captain Universe is a force for good and Cytorrak hates that sh*t

 
Did you not read my second paragraph? 
 
Cyttorak has never really concerned himself with the day to day works of Cain. The power is not supposed to be a freaking yo yo. Cain has done "good" things and even saved the world before and not a peep.  If his battle against Nightmare happened today the next time you see Cain would he be nearly powerless? If Dr. Strange visited Cyttorak today how would it go? Would it be all fire and brimstone with Cyttorak telling everyone how evil he is?
 
Frank Teri needed a reason for Cain's original depowering under Chuck Austin and later Clearmont on NEX. He came up with the idea that Cain playing at hero for an extended period of time caused the power loss. And to get it back he had to kill someone in cold blood. Chris Gage later followed up on that and made it clear this was a permanent situation.  He also made it clear that since the time Cain did kill again for the power HE was the one in control of his power levels. Not Cyttorak. It's back to the way things had been in the past. Cain was The Juggernaut, free to do as he pleases and Cyttorak stays out of the way.
 
Then Jeff Parker comes along and wants him for yet another team and so they ignore everything except for the fact that Teri had it as Cyttorak that depowered Cain. And I do mean ignored everything else. Chris Gage, Frank Teri and Mike Carey must have wondered why they put any thought into the return of The Juggernaut at all. Actually making it fit the character and his history.  Because it was all ignored very quickly.
#14 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vendel: That was a joke 
#15 Edited by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio
@Vendel
the best I could figure, outside of lazy writing which is just a given, and that's that, is Cyttorak just checks in from time to time, and is otherwise preoccupied (he is running an entire cosmos after all). That's my no prize. Really it was because the Thunderbolts writer wanted it one way and the Uncanny one wanted it another, and they knew but didn't mind that detail. I think that's pretty obvious. Same for any other time (personally I believe if they didn't jerk Cain around all the time and wrote him in stories that displayed and challenged his true level of power would make for a better read). Cain had no real motivation of his own in this. The Serpent choose him, hence why the hammer fell to his location, and it screwed with his already screwed with mind (that's how they wrote it anyways friend) and pretty much just took him for itself, same as it did to Ben Grimm, Bruce Banner or anyone else running around with a Worthy hammer. In other words he was co-opted, and he was one of the chosen to to his " worthiness" to be fear personified to his lesser's, peers and equals. (not written in the story, but I'm guessing as well it's do to having been a legit and memorable opponent of Thor's at one point, which seems to be something most of The Worthy have in common). That's my take on it anyway's. Writing isn't alway's on point, in fact it usually is never 100%. I'm sure we both can concede to that being a fact. Trust me when I say we'll both be wishing for a more coherent version of Cain for a long time (particularly with this whole Colossus thing now in place).
#16 Edited by Vendel (352 posts) - - Show Bio
@CATPANEXE said:

  Trust me when I say we'll both be wishing for a more coherent version of Cain for a long time (particularly with this whole Colossus thing now in place). 
 

 
The thing is we had a more coherent version of Cain with his return to Juggernaut glory only a couple years ago. Then it was all ignored.  I mean they turn Colossus into the new Juggernaut in FI. In schism (which takes place after FI) he is still normal. Then afterwards he will be The Juggernaut again if the November solicits are correct.  Teri, Gage and Carey must feel like idiots wasting time making their Juggernaut stories fit the character instead of the other way around.
 
So if Marvel doesn't care anymore then why should I?
#17 Posted by joshmightbe (24885 posts) - - Show Bio

Here's the deal if Cytorrak actually got involved with Fear Itself it would be over in like 2 seconds cause if he felt the need he could just kill the Serpent and all the Worthy, exorcise Cain and then go about his day 

#18 Posted by DATNIGGA (1193 posts) - - Show Bio

in one of the journey into mystery fear itself tie ins i remember seeing the god heads trying to decide what to do with serpent and the demons were trying to decide what to do as well cytorak was down there with the demons and he was very pissed tbh if they all attacked serpent it would be over very soon lol but marvel seems to keep the gods on the sidelines

#19 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheFallenOne:Obvious ALT = Obvious Alt.

#20 Posted by TheSecondOpinion (614 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vendel said:

Answer me this. How was Cyttorak unaware Cain had been completely taken over by Kuurth? Yet him being Captain Universe for like 10 minutes gets Cain depowered and on the T-Bolts?

I also hate how Cyttorrak is being portrayed. It's like he has regressed form his Dr. Strange days where he was a mysterious aloof major magical player. He was called a demon and a god. To now where he is just some powerful demon who rules a hell like dimension and is only concerned with destruction? And can anyone tell me what exactly is Cain's motivation in this event? If he doesn't want to be under Cyttorak's sway anymore why would he willingly let himself be taken over by Kuurth? And then proceed to do the exact same thing he would be doing as The Juggernaut?

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