wouldn't it be better if he was a woman?

#1 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

Or worse for some fans would not even think of the idea?

#2 Edited by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

Is Harley Quinn better?

#3 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: no she has some of his personlaty but not all of it and besides i would much rather it be just the joker thats a woman

#4 Posted by Vortex13 (12223 posts) - - Show Bio

Wouldn't it be better if Superman was a woman?

Wouldn't it be better if Hal Jordan was a woman?

Speaking of which, why the hell have their been no prominent female green lanterns of earth? I mean seriously, what are the odds that only men can successfully hold the ring without loosing it or dying a few issues later.

On topic it's pointless to think about since he was first created as a man, if he had been first created as a woman thing might be different. He'd/she'd probably flirt with batman and trade on his/her own femininity. He/she would probably be a less popular character than he/she has become. For the record I'm thinking about the time period he was first created in where most female villains at that time (not that many female villain characters really at that time) acted that way. Think about the attitude towards women at the time, he wouldn't be taken seriously by readers of the time because of the inherent sexist attitude of American culture of the time.

@awesam said:

Is Harley Quinn better?

Harley Quinn is hardly a female joker. Completely different attitude and personality, she is her own character. No where as evil, twisted, or crazy as him.

#5 Posted by Vortex13 (12223 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam: no she has some of his personlaty but not all of it and besides i would much rather it be just the joker thats a woman

Why?

#6 Edited by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

In what ways would it be better in your opinion?

#7 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio
#8 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: Not necessarily. People could still spread rumours about a woman being gay.

What's wrong with the gay rumours anyway?

#9 Posted by JohnnyGat (1561 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how it would make Joker better, his gender was never a defining characteristic nor was it an integral plot mechanic to explain anything about him. His defining characteristic is that he's so insane that he is unpredictable and that has nothing to do with his gender. Could a female Joker work? Yes, of course. Would it be better? Doubtful, probable outcome is we get the same stories but with a character with a different gender. Basically what I'm saying is that it won't be better it will be simply the same with only a minor difference that changes nothing in terms of how the character is defined by.

#10 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't see how it would make Joker better, his gender was never a defining characteristic nor was it an integral plot mechanic to explain anything about him. His defining characteristic is that he's so insane that he is unpredictable and that has nothing to do with his gender. Could a female Joker work? Yes, of course. Would it be better? Doubtful, probable outcome is we get the same stories but with a character with a different gender. Basically what I'm saying is that it won't be better it will be simply the same with only a minor difference that changes nothing in terms of how the character is defined by.

This seems about right.

#11 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

.........................................................................yes..............................................................

#12 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

well this turned into argument i should have never started

#13 Posted by RulerOfThisUniverse (6147 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: I have no idea how that could change anything. Gender has nothing to do with his personality, it wouldn't matter if they changed that. That said, he started out as a man, so they should keep him that way, otherwise every fan on the planet will rage. Why would you want that change?

#14 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

well this turned into argument i should have never started

You began this because of your dislike of rumors of homosexuality?

@v_scarlotte_rose: well for one there will be no more rumors that the jokers gay

oh- right.. yes that IS why you started this

Why couldn't you have written all of this in your original post, so we could have had another interesting discussion about gender vs. sexuality? Oh lifeofvibe ~ that vibe is all hate it seems, or at least confusion. Lets talk it out huh? Why do you have these issues?

#15 Posted by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: She's the female equivilant of Joker. They have different personalities, yes, but Joker would have a different personality if he was a girl. Most likely something like Harley's.

#16 Edited by SoA (4699 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: there was a female joker in flashpoint (no spoilers lol)

and also this

#17 Edited by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

@mynamewasdeleted: I never understood the whole Joker is gay rumor, if anything the character is more likely bi or pan sexual but the point is moot since sex is not generally a focus for him and I doubt he's even capable of actually loving another person so romance in general seems like it has no place with the character.

#18 Edited by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: well for one there will be no more rumors that the jokers gay

I do have to ask, you're fine with the child killing, the brutal tortures and mass poisonings Joker does but the gay rumor bothers you? You may need to reevaluate some of your values there buddy.

#19 Posted by dccomicsrule2011 (23302 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe said:

@v_scarlotte_rose: well for one there will be no more rumors that the jokers gay

I do have to ask, you're fine with the child killing, the brutal tortures and mass poisonings Joker does but the gay rumor bothers you? You may need to reevaluate some of your values there buddy.

lol

#20 Posted by Vortex13 (12223 posts) - - Show Bio

@awesam said:

@lifeofvibe: She's the female equivilant of Joker. They have different personalities, yes, but Joker would have a different personality if he was a girl. Most likely something like Harley's.

Not necessarily. Personality types and traits are not gender restricted, he could have been made exactly the same even with him being of the female gender. I just doubt it due to when he was created and the attitude towards woman at the time.

#21 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@mynamewasdeleted: I never understood the whole Joker is gay rumor, if anything the character is more likely bi or pan sexual but the point is moot since sex is not generally a focus for him and I doubt he's even capable of actually loving another person so romance in general seems like it has no place with the character.

yeah- I'm not into DC so much (even though I got my start reading DC books) - I didn't know about any issues with Joker's sexuality until this thread

#22 Posted by Alak (925 posts) - - Show Bio

While I do think that Joker should stay the way he is (male), I also believe that it doesn't matter what gender the character takes up. Joker doesn't represent any sexual nature whatsoever. He's not masculine like bane nor is he feminine like Ivy. His actions in the main continuity would be the same regardless of gender. However, the one thing that would change is Harley Quinn's involvement with him if he were to be female. That's the main reason why I would be against a gender swap.

#23 Edited by AweSam (7373 posts) - - Show Bio
@vortex13 said:

@awesam said:

@lifeofvibe: She's the female equivilant of Joker. They have different personalities, yes, but Joker would have a different personality if he was a girl. Most likely something like Harley's.

Not necessarily. Personality types and traits are not gender restricted, he could have been made exactly the same even with him being of the female gender. I just doubt it due to when he was created and the attitude towards woman at the time.

Well, they tried that with Duela, in a way. Harley was meant to be the female Joker. She's the closest thing t it, at least.

#24 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak said:

While I do think that Joker should stay the way he is (male), I also believe that it doesn't matter what gender the character takes up. Joker doesn't represent any sexual nature whatsoever. He's not masculine like bane nor is he feminine like Ivy. His actions in the main continuity would be the same regardless of gender. However, the one thing that would change is Harley Quinn's involvement with him if he were to be female. That's the main reason why I would be against a gender swap.

Not necessarily. They could both be gay.

#25 Edited by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak said:

While I do think that Joker should stay the way he is (male), I also believe that it doesn't matter what gender the character takes up. Joker doesn't represent any sexual nature whatsoever. He's not masculine like bane nor is he feminine like Ivy. His actions in the main continuity would be the same regardless of gender. However, the one thing that would change is Harley Quinn's involvement with him if he were to be female. That's the main reason why I would be against a gender swap.

Not necessarily. They could both be gay.

Bow-chicka-Wow-WOW! sales would skyrocket

#26 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose said:

@alak said:

While I do think that Joker should stay the way he is (male), I also believe that it doesn't matter what gender the character takes up. Joker doesn't represent any sexual nature whatsoever. He's not masculine like bane nor is he feminine like Ivy. His actions in the main continuity would be the same regardless of gender. However, the one thing that would change is Harley Quinn's involvement with him if he were to be female. That's the main reason why I would be against a gender swap.

Not necessarily. They could both be gay.

Bow-chicka-Wow-WOW! sales would skyrocket

Why?

#27 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Posted by V_Scarlotte_Rose (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: adolescent boys love girl on girl action?

Oh. Pretty weak reason to buy a comic book.

They'd probably be disappointed anyway. It's not like they'd put porn in a Batman comic.

#29 Posted by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: You'd be surprised at the lengths a 13 year old boy will go to see even a hint of lesbian action, its somewhat similar to the lengths a dog will go to get a piece of unwatched steak off the counter.

#30 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (32848 posts) - - Show Bio

.........................................................................yes..............................................................

You know what? I think I'd like that.

#31 Edited by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio

@v_scarlotte_rose: You'd be surprised at the lengths a 13 year old boy will go to see even a hint of lesbian action, its somewhat similar to the lengths a dog will go to get a piece of unwatched steak off the counter.

exactly- that's why DEFIANCE has yet to be cancelled

#33 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

@alak: @v_scarlotte_rose: @joshmightbe: @jonny_anonymous: @mynamewasdeleted: Dang this is the most stupidest thread I've ever made Sorry guys=| but the way this thread is going its a if it was made for lesbians and I didn't mean to put better but more cooler it would make him more menacing like how could a woman do that? That's not sexist in my eyes its just me being curious.

#34 Posted by MyNameWasDeleted (679 posts) - - Show Bio
#35 Posted by joshmightbe (24689 posts) - - Show Bio

@lifeofvibe: You don't need the word more if the word after it ends in an er, the er actually means more so if you say cooler it means more cool. Sorry its a pet peeve of mine.

#36 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio
#37 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio
#38 Posted by Vivke (11 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't want him to be a woman. It would ruin his relationship with Batman since it will be all about how she can seduce him. Besides I'm sure they won't show how Batman beats a woman to a bloody mess even if she was the Joker. And I personally enjoy Joker's gay jokes so no. Joker is good the way he is.

#39 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17332 posts) - - Show Bio

you Know i never get these. I hate Pointless changes. This goes for everything.

If the want a character to change sexuality it should be DONE if it actually adds something to the character or should at least make sense. Like Making Jason Todd Gay would make sense in a way and would add many things to his character.

But if they Do it just for the lolz, what's the Point? what would making spider-man Gay for example bring? Or making Rogue Gay, what would that Bring? nothing.

This is the Kind of change i dislike, if it adds nothing then just leave him the way he is. What would making Joker Female Bring? I am genuinely interested, does it really add anything?

Online
#40 Posted by SupBatz (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

People look at the Joker's sexuality in such black-and-white terms. "He's obsessed with Batman. Batman's the only person that the Joker truly values. Therefore, he must be gay." He's enamored with Batman because they understand one another. They're opposites who act as personifications of justice and chaos. It's to be expected that the Joker would be so obsessed with Batman given his unique personality and just how perfectly opposite the two characters are. That doesn't make the Joker gay. It doesn't mean that he is attracted to Batman. The Joker is the perfect example of a character who defies all typical expectations and classifications. His fixation with Batman is just one example of his lunacy. And it doesn't mean that he is a gay character.

#41 Edited by Vivke (11 posts) - - Show Bio

@supbatz: This will be totally offtopic since this thread is not about his sexuality.... But yes, his obsession alone doesn't mean that he is gay. I totally agree with that. But you have to admit that some of his interpretations are definitely hinting in that direction and his obsession can be viewed from totally different aspects. But since he's not an average guy I won't say ever that he is gay in the normal definition.

#42 Posted by SupBatz (1700 posts) - - Show Bio

@vivke: I only brought up his sexuality because it was mentioned in an earlier post.

I agree that some interpretations do depict him as more gay than others. I can't day I blame the writers, it is an interesting direction to take the character. But I also think it is foolish to actually label him a gay character or to even has as many people who suspect he's gay as we have recently.

#43 Posted by JetiiMitra (8194 posts) - - Show Bio

Everything would be better if the men in comics were women. No, I don't know why.

#44 Posted by lifeofvibe (3430 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: you know I never under stood the whole jason todds gay thing for I once heard theory that the fact he was always angry at his father (bruce) because he was rejecting the fact that he was gay but if that was true he would also have been pushing away his original father but from what I can tell in his 0 issue he never pushed him away though he wasn't pushing him any closer but still it doesn't make sense if he was pushing away bruce because he was gay then by that logic he would also be pushing away his original father but he didnt so in all technicality he isn't a closeted homo thinking that the jokers gay doesn't make sense either for the only thing that would sujest such a thing a thing was that he grab batmans butt in arkham asylum but it is creepy rumor that I some time i can't stand

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