what happeen to joker and harley

#1 Edited by moneyshotz (141 posts) - - Show Bio

why does joker not love her.

#2 Edited by TheJokerha (161 posts) - - Show Bio

@moneyshotz:

Executive decisions, I suspect.

There are a lot of people who feel Harley should have stayed in the animated world. Having Joker love anyone but himself is humanizing, makes him less than an absolute monster. They had to tone Joker down for an animated series where lots of kids as well as adults would be watching. But that toning down made its way into the comics as well. Some could argue it lead to character degeneration of Joker.

But Harley is a beloved character. I love her my own self. And she is extremely popular. From this fans point of view it looks like DC has been trying to figure out what to do with her. They tried having Joker beating her up on a regular bases, to keep him evil even when he is with her. But Harley fans hated that. ( I hate it when he does that too.) So then they tried separating them and empowering her. A good step but it broke up the popular couple. Now they are trying to make her more crazy and like The Joker himself. Which has its problems cause we came to love Halreyin her red and black body suit, and for her crazy but lovable self.

Joker doesn't love her cause DC can't figure out how to have it work. How to make the "Joker is absolute evil" fans happy as well as "Joker is evil but he loves his Harley and she loves him and is her original sweet self" fans happy.

Personally, I would prefer she return to her original self and Joker be humanized enough for her to be the one person he doesn't hurt. He might betray her to the cops or The Bats to save his own skin on a caper. Steal from her or other scoundrel lie behavior. But he does love his pumpkin and and shows it . Especially when others aren't around.And keep her empowered, but just doing it for love of her puddin.

But that's just me.

#3 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

Joker doesn't love Harley, he abuses and uses Harley. And he always has.

#4 Edited by TheJokerha (161 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: I don't think anyone here saying he does love Harley. You don't hit people you love, period. I think the question was why doesn't he love her? The obvious, in universe answer is 'he is crazy and evil." He is way to much in love with himself to love anyone else, the way he is written.

There are just some die hard romantics and shippers of these two who would like things to be different, I think. I sure wish they could be a team and a couple with out him abusing her. But I'm not holding my breath.

#5 Posted by fodigg (6136 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheJokerha: Even in the animated stuff, Joker showed nothing but contempt for her. The closest he ever came to affection was jealousy, but even then it was about somebody playing with his toys.

#6 Posted by CBninja (170 posts) - - Show Bio

I always wondered if it was for a physical aspect. Even super villians need to get their rocks off.

#7 Posted by TheJokerha (161 posts) - - Show Bio

@fodigg: I absolutely agree. Just wish it could be different.

#8 Posted by SiycoBat (147 posts) - - Show Bio

I've read the Harley Quinn series, Harley and Ivy, Batman: Harley Quinn, and Gotham City Sirens and even watched every episode Harley ever was been in. I don't see how anyone can see anything between Joker and Harley more than what is in front of your eyes. It is very clear that Joker does not love Harley or love Harley in the way that Harley wishes to be loved. It has been validated by many writers, including Paul Dini and Mark Hamill, that what the Joker and Harley have is not just twisted but very dark and brutal at its core and its not suppose to be taken in such a dismissive tone.

To me, Bruce Timm and Paul Dini tried the experiment of "humanizing" the Joker by giving him a companion aka Harley. Since Joker had to be toned for a TV kid audience, adding a sidekick seemed unusual but admittedly interesting for the time being. Later on, the experiment turned into a failure when it was revealed at the very end of TNBA that all they shared was the variant of what you would see in an abusive relationship with Harley always ending up being the punchbag.

In my opinion, trying to put Joker and Harley together is like kicking a dead horse at this point. Trying to force something to happen between them that never will. The two of them will never be able to work out in comics because that means that either one or the other will have to compromise their core MOs in order to possibly have anything together. To make Joker feel something for Harley is like trying to give the Joker a weakness that his core MO will not be able to take without making him look like some villain that is easy to control. It means to give the monster a heart that can be manipulated and Joker is not that type of character to allow anything control him or play into someone else's cards unless the circumstances are completely in his favor.

Try as most of the die-hard romantics that the JxHQ shippers are, unless you have a complete and objective understanding of the Joker's character concerning his interaction with people and approach to common life situations first, trying to make claims that Joker loves Harley is like trying to say that dogs meow and birds bark. The biggest mistake they make is seeing Joker through Harley's eyes and taking Harley's claims as the truth with the justification that Harley knows Joker better than anyone forgetting the core fact that Harley perceives most of the things she sees as looking into the world through rose tinted glasses where everything is like a Looney Tunes cartoon where you are stupid to most adult concepts such as life and death.

Joker knows Harley's feelings for him and uses them for his own means and only tolerates her because of her usefulness to him.

#9 Posted by ngroove (318 posts) - - Show Bio

@moneyshotz:

Joker loves only Joker.

#10 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15127 posts) - - Show Bio

@ngroove: No Joker loves Batman.

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