Off Vaiz's Mind: Flaspoint Joker; Bruce Wayne?

Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio

WARNING: FLASHPOINT BATMAN SPOILERS

 I apologize if this is really poorly written. It's 5 AM and I have yet to sleep.
 
So, the popular idea kicking around lately regarding Flashpoint's various universe alterations is the answer to the question on everyone's mind: If Thomas Wayne is the Batman, who exactly will be filling the shoes of the clown prince of crime? Surely Thomas didn't replicate the exact SNAFU that created the Joker we all know and love in the main DCU, but we know The Joker does exist, and we know a precious few things about him.
So, who is Flashpoint's Joker? It seems the public would like to think Bruce Wayne, and I think that's a wonderful idea.
We know two very important facts about Flashpoint Joker:
  • He is intimately connected to Dr. Wayne/Batman (Which is kind of a necessity for the character, I feel.)
  • He is a child molester/killer (See Flashpoint: Batman #1). The last page kind of implies pedophile along with killer, which is territory The Joker hasn't been taken into, which is surprising considering he's a clown. Kids love clowns.
Intimately connected to the Wayne family points to one of two options: Bruce or Alfred. Bruce fits the bill far better as far as his connection to Thomas goes. Second of all, the child killer angle. If Bruce is the joker, his transformation would have begun the night he was supposedly killed with his mother right in front of his father's eyes. Perhaps this form of that trauma, instead of driving him to become the Batman, instead drives him to become a monster bent on stealing the innocence and lives from other children as it was stolen from him. It's a stretch, sure, but this is all theoretical anyway. Note how Thomas freaks the hell out when Barry talks about Bruce and how quickly Thomas accuses him of being an agent of the Joker, implying the Joker has knowledge of Thomas Wayne's identity as Batman and the connection to the murder of his family, which narrows the list of suspects down a lot (assumingJim Gordon and Harvey Dent apparently knowing Thomas is Batman is an isolated thing). It fits. Sure, he says Bruce is dead, but as someone pointed out, that could be a metaphorical "That thing isn't my son" sort of 'dead'.
 
With me so far? Good, because I'm not being very coherent about this.
 
Anyway, this would also just be a great play for Flashpoint. The Joker is creepy because we don't know him. Despite multiple attempts to explain his origin, we never got a very good grip on what and who the Joker was before he was the Joker, and even then his personality is constantly shifting. Bruce as the Joker would be chilling because we know exactly who he is, or at least, who he should be. Seeing the man we know as the unshakable champion of justice in the corrected timeline as The Joker would probably be the most unsettling path they could take with the character in Flashpoint.
 
So what do you think. Chances on Bruce being the Joker? If not him, then who? Anyone we know? Or does the Joker simply... exist, even in the otherwise radically different Flashpoint timeline? 
 
Side Note: If they go with the angle of The Joker being Joe Chill/Whoever murdered the other two Waynes in this timeline, which seems the other obvious answer, I'll be very put out. I was always a little bothered by that interpretation in Batman '89.
 
(Again, I apologize for incoherency. Early in the morning. Very little sleep. Felt like banging this out.)
#1 Posted by Odyssey_Dawn (84674 posts) - - Show Bio
slow clap  
I like this idea. Lets see if DC is of the same mindset.
Moderator
#2 Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio

It would be neat. I'm just afraid it's almost too obvious a choice. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out; so far Flashpoint's take on the Batman mythos is my favorite part of the whole storyline.

#3 Posted by DEGRAAF (7875 posts) - - Show Bio

I think it sounds like a cool idea but i would be pleasantly surprised if they went that route since there are so many people that love The Bruce Wayne part of Batman. I could see a revolt happening if the mass majority of Batman followers favorite character was now his past sworn enemy. 
 
That would better explain though why batman would refuse to kill the Joker after all he has done.
#4 Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio
@DEGRAAF said:
I think it sounds like a cool idea but i would be pleasantly surprised if they went that route since there are so many people that love The Bruce Wayne part of Batman. I could see a revolt happening if the mass majority of Batman followers favorite character was now his past sworn enemy.  That would better explain though why batman would refuse to kill the Joker after all he has done.
Since Flashpoint is a temporary thing (Bruce will of course be Batman post-Flashpoint reboots. I hope.), I don't think it would cause too much of a stir, but yeah, it all fits pretty well. The more I look at the end of Batman: Knight of Vengeance #1, the more it gives off this creepy child-forgotten-by-daddy vibe.
#5 Posted by The_Tree (7250 posts) - - Show Bio

You read my mind VaizD!

#6 Edited by sesquipedalophobe (4699 posts) - - Show Bio

That is a pretty neat idea, although the premise is that Bruce Wayne died in the shooting instead of Thomas.
Edit: Bruce Wayne coming back from the dead in villain form would be unsettling.

#7 Posted by hulk_beyond (89 posts) - - Show Bio

I say its either Bruce or Dr. Hurt. Haha Thomas Wayne vs Thomas Wayne.

#8 Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio
@hulk_beyond said:
I say its either Bruce or Dr. Hurt. Haha Thomas Wayne vs Thomas Wayne.
I like the way you think. Unlikely as that is, that'd be one hell of a twist.
#9 Posted by hulk_beyond (89 posts) - - Show Bio
@VaizD
 
I mean without Bruce around Hurt has to be up to something. Although he'll probably be ignored in Flashpoint.
#10 Posted by Grubich (368 posts) - - Show Bio

I was actually wondering what happened to Alfred, and this kinda ... well, fits.

#11 Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio
@Grubich said:
I was actually wondering what happened to Alfred, and this kinda ... well, fits.
A lot of people have been assuming Alfred is The Outsider, since that was how the character originally came to be in the main DCU; Alfred went evil and got weird superpowers, back in the goofy 60s Batman era.
 
Dunno how viable that it, though. For all we know they just decided it would be a good unimportant character to throw into Flashpoint.
#12 Posted by KenTheProfile (412 posts) - - Show Bio
@VaizD
I think it's Martha Wayne. if you look at the panel of Joker seem to linger on mother when talking to the kids. also the longer hair. 
 
it's not much but it's something
#13 Posted by VaizD (249 posts) - - Show Bio
@KenTheProfile said:
@VaizD: I think it's Martha Wayne. if you look at the panel of Joker seem to linger on mother when talking to the kids. also the longer hair.  it's not much but it's something
Seems like you were right on the money. I'm not sure why that didn't occur to me at the time - I didn't so much as even mention Martha in my post, which is weird. Chalk it up to the early morning sleepies, I guess. This makes for an interesting dichotomy in this universe. In mainDCU, the Waynes getting shot created Batman; in Flashpoint, Bruce being killed created them both? I'm assuming that's what happened anyway. Bruce being shot and both parents snapping in vastly different ways.
 
I guess we'll find out next month!

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