Joker uses everyone, it's a core part of his personality.
is Harley Quinn used or the Joker really love her?
hmmm i think in the beginning the joker just had around for her to fill up his ego and make him laugh...but some how she got in and he doesn't like it...since he is insane it's like a switch, every time there is remotely any evidence of him having a slight molecule of love for her he wants to kill her...and as crazy as that's sounds...you know you love someone when you WANT to kill em :P
No the relationship is totally one sided he uses her for her skills and loyalty he would kill her in a second. She is a big joke to him the way she loves him so much in everything he does but he does not and just uses her hurts her humiliates her. That is just another joke in his mind. The Joker is so sick and twisted and evil he feels no sexual or romantic feelings. He is extremely vain and loves himself always putting himself above anything his ego would not let him fall in love as well
To be more precise, he turned her into a constellation. And in Joker's case, not killing someone is the equivalent of roses and a box of chocolate. Actually, it's oddly romantic when you think about it.
" Truex said:He killed her in Emperor Joker. Though he did it because he cared about her and not just for the sake of killing. "
"In Last Laugh when he thought he was dying he wanted Harley to have his child, and on many other occasions he has randomly killed everyone working for him. So in some way he does love her since he hasn't killed her yet, but because he is insane and incredibly egotistical he sees her as expendable."
You know, I downloaded the demo for Batman: Arkham Asylum the other day and read Harley's bio that is included with the game. It describes Harleen Quinzel as the Joker's "greatest victim" in the sense that he has actually done more harm to her and through her than he ever could with anyone else.
"You always hurt the ones you love."
Harley, in my opinion, yes right off the bat she seems like a ditz , but remember she was first a psychologist. She was mature and intelligent. It was the abuse and mind-screwing of the Joker that made her lose it. She became maniacal, brainwashed, and quite obviously lost all sense of herself. Abusive relationships strip you down to nothing, hence why her character is made in the image of the joker instead of something based off her individual ideals.. Yeah she's more of a sidekick, but i see it as that she really isnt a villian. She became bad because of the joker, but in all actuality, she was just a doctor challenging herself by taking on some of the most ill patients in the asylum. Unfortunately she slipped a bit. Unlike Catwoman and Poison Ivy, Harley has undying love and is more innocent , and Poison Ivy is always giving her advice and it never gets through to her. I just felt like I had to defend her to those who think she's a retard.. and to answer the question, i think he loves her. but in the twisted highly unhealthy sort of love/lust or love/hate relationship. He has absolutely used her. But then when she decides to walk away and teach him a lesson, he freaks out and says he needs her..The joker doesnt have to do that, Harley can be replaced. But he doesnt , because he "loves" her.
" @kingbatman said:LMAO!" @Lunacyde said:It has more dramatic effect if you actually spell Sherlock correctly :P "" thats it I got a craving to watch Batman the 90's animated series....Harley is awesome in that "no shit shirlock "
" @jokerman said:" i think shes used "Ditto. "
It is already stated that the Joker is super-sane. He recreates his persona everyday, to fit the occasion. Some days, he might just really care for her (not love her, I have never seen him do that before), the other days, she's just one more person who he didn't kill yet.
Frankly, I think it will take a long time before the two get in the love boat again. Joker is more bad ass then ever right now, and I don't think he'll be in the mood to care for her again.
He doesn't love Harley in the sense that normal people love someone. He loves her in his own sick and twisted way. He has tried to kill her many times. And, although it has already been said, he won't kill her. He likes that she has an infatuation with him and he uses that to get to her. Does he love her is not the correct question its more of does he care for her. And the answer to both of them is yes. In his own way yes he does.
I personally believe it's both. She is used because her complete purpose for him is really to do what he says, and she does it probably the best out of all of his gang because she is infatuated and will do anything he wants. He could tell her to jump off a bridge, and she'll jump off the bridge, in a sense. But if he told a random member of his gang to jump off a bridge, that person will not jump off the bridge..Harley will probably push him off the bridge for not doing what the Joker told him to do. But I think that some times that without Harley he would really be lost some times and he has grown accustomed to having her around. I think the deepest affection he has is "What would I do without Harley? I'm too lazy to do it myself."
Ive always seen the Joker as sociopath incapable of true love, the ''love'' he shows to Harley is solely for selfish reasons..
I always thought that he enjoyed her deep devoution to him, which gave him a sort of self approvel, but in the end she was just an emotional tool for him. Harley and Joker are two different sorts of sociopaths the one with no ability to show true love, the other shows love similair to a child: Accepting, intense, sometimes... selfish and finally, just like a child she will be extremely loyal. Where the Joker only does the things he do for personal gain and uses her love as a tool but still needs her for his own selfish satisfaction and acceptance.
So in than sense.... he uses her but their relationship could he studied for ages, its actually brilliant. Its proberly the most perfect thing the animated series gave life to.
Joker doesn't love her. He's shot her at point blank range, launched her in a rocket and numerous other things, and very often puts Batman top on his list of priorities above her. Joker finds her amusing and sometimes even fun. She's a very convenient tool and plaything when she's going all gaga for Mistah J.
If any of you have read Arkham Asylum The psychologist there claims that the Joker has super sanity, which is why he seems to be a silly clown some times, and a murderous psycho other times. His personality is constantly changing, this makes the most sense for me as to why the joker acts so differently during different story arcs while they all take place in the same continuity. It also explains why he treats Harley differently all the time, being affectionate some times, and torturous others.
I gotta call bull-hockey on that, there have been plenty of cases where psychopaths have done terrible things or killed people without remorse because they thought they were being loved or that they'd lose that feeling of love. There have been plenty of cases where there have been people stalking other people because they thought those people loved them and they loved them back? Only for the guy to end up killing that person when he/she enters an actual relationship because of jealously or fear of losing that feeling of love?@Desiderina Redhead said:BOTHYou make it sounds like Psychopaths can't love.
He cant love, not fully.. he is a psycopath.
But he cares for her in the only way he can
That's because they can't. But the Joker might not be a psychopath.
Psychopaths can love, but not in the traditional or ordinary sense. For example, The Joker may love Harley but in his twisted mind the only way he can express love is through abuse and suffering. This could also connect to his fascination and obsession with Batman, he often calls Batman things like "Darling" or whatever. He could be in love with Batman and is expressing that Love by trying to make him miserable because that's how he sees expressing love. For Joker, "love is where the hurt is."
Although this is all debatable since Joker might just be really good at faking insanity.
If Joker is actually insane, and does love Harley then chances are that love has worn off as well or continues to degrade and regrow. Here's a fantastic article about how Psychopaths view love. The article says that psychopaths can fall in love and maybe he did love Harley Quinn at one point, but for most psychopaths they no longer love the object of their obsession (Harley in this case) once that object is officially dominated by them. That's probably why Joker continues to abuse and push her away, but whenever she tries to move on he wheels her back in. He loves her and abuses her because that's how he expresses love, but once she completely falls heads over heels for him and is willing to do anything he asks, he no longer loves her. Once she moves on, he loves her again because she is no longer dominated by him. It's a vicious circle.
Read that article, you can see the similarities between it and Harley and Joker's relationship.
I believe the Joker in his own sick way loves Harley. If he really didn't he would have killed her, he did attempt it when he pushed her out that window but he must have felt like he had to apologize because he left her a flower with a little note, for someone who dosn't care about humanity that says alot. Also he skinned a man alive for looking at her, he has in the past tried to kill her out of jealousy.
Obviously, the Joker is not one for loving emotions, although it would be safe to say that their relationship is bizarre enough that he often does treat her fondly, in a weird, violent-romantic, way.
Here is a little Wikki Proof-
Harley's relationship with the Joker is one of the most complex in the DC Universe. While he often abuses her, sometimes near the point of death, there are as many instances that show a mutually affectionate side to their bizarre relationship. Certain stories imply that the Joker wrestles with the confusing reality of actually caring for someone, giving in to the sentiment more or less at times depending on his mood or state of mind.
In the book Batman: Animated, Mark Hamill (who provided the voice of the Joker in Batman: the Animated Series) says "Expressing emotion in any way that's real and meaningful is alien to the Joker, but he's learning those parts of himself, however unconsciously, through Harley."
Sorkin adds, "Everyone else sees the Joker laugh; Only Harley has ever seen him cry."
One example of this affectionate bend in their rollercoaster relationship comes from the Emperor Joker series (Action Comics #770) where Joker shares with Harley his deeply personal reasons for destroying the universe. Instead of destroying her with it, he gives her a last kiss and turns her into a constellation, saying "You get the best seat in the house for Armageddon. Say goodnight, Harley. I always wanted to see my dame in lights. Heh. Even in a moment of abject saccharine, I still got it."
A more in-depth look at the early stages of their DC Universe relationship is provided in Greg Rucka's No Man's Land novel. In the book Joker's initial reaction to Harley in her new mental state is a mixture of fascination and annoyance. Something that he can only seem to guess at causes him to not kill her and to keep her around, and as they spend more time together he begins to enjoy her more in spite of himself. One part describes Joker observing Harley during one of their outings, "Harley, he had discovered, had tricks. One of her favorites involved a rusty cheese grater and a stapler. It didn't always work, mostly because people didn't tend to sit still for that sort of thing, but it gave Joker a consistent laugh, and he figured in time Harley would have it down to a science."
Another part describes Joker choking Harley in frustration, and then a quick thought or two later grabbing her, kissing and licking her, and saying to her excitedly "Harley. You are the greatest, you know that?"
In Batman #663, it is revealed that Harley included in her college thesis the theory that the Joker is constantly reinventing his personality; After she is corrupted, however, she refuses to accept that his love for her is not a constant. Furthermore, Joker relents after Harley defends herself against him, saying he will let her live, but that it would be better if she were disfigured. She apparently consents, but Batman attacks as Joker traces a razor against her cheek. The issue ends with Harley putting a bullet through Joker's shoulder.
Loves her because he left flowers on her desk? It was only to manipulate her back to him.
I don't think he loves her. Not in the slightest and not even in his own way. Ofc he is attached to her because it's convinient to have a henchgirl who adores her and does anything Joker wants. But he easily replaces her in the comic and in TAS also...
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