Why Does DC Hate John Stewart? And Why Won't They Put Him In JL?

#51 Posted by TDK_1997 (14985 posts) - - Show Bio

Well they want Hal to have the most appearances because he is the most known Lantern while John was created because they wanted to have a big hero that is black and after making something big with him they just left him kinda.

#52 Posted by slade_wilson (534 posts) - - Show Bio

@briangsharon: You nailed it. Your theory applies to all diverse heroes and can also be used to explain why Steel should be a more prominent character. I don't want to turn this into my own platform to preach why Steel deserves more attention, but in my own humble opinion he is the, pardon my word choice, "blackest" of all black superheroes. That being said, he is reasonably differentiated from the traditional, white heroes that DC puts out. For this reason, he may be more interesting and appealing to writers and artists. When attempting to diversify, you truly need diverse heroes. A different skin color is far from true diversity. The comic geek populace, especially those who tend to whine about diversification problems, need to understand this.

#53 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mannequin said:

@Nightflash said:

I dont think DC hates him, it's just the fans prefer Hal

I honestly don't see how people would actually prefer him. He was an ignorant ass in Justice League (DCnU), I've only read the first arc so I can't speak on if he's changed his attitude as the series progressed, but I'm not feeling him.

yeah. he was better in the Villains journey arc from what i hear. he even took the wrap for the fight between him and wonder woman (which she started) so that the team wouldn't be blamed. i also hear he's been displayed a lot better in the main Green Lantern book.

#54 Posted by Space_Captain_Ulyverse (33 posts) - - Show Bio

I think John Stewart serves as the "in-between" generation character. DC has a tendency of keeping up tradition, of having a Flash or GL or Batman every generation of reader. In the last three decades of so, they've done the same thing for their Continuity. I know a little about the new Green Lantern Baz but it seems he serves as the 2010s GL. I think you can kind of just split each Lantern into a generation I'm sure some would agree. Hal Jordan has been pulled out of the water works by Johns (which you can probably argue that is a good or a bad thing...) as the definitive Lantern. But I know readers of all ages and they all say that one Lantern is their GL. I think Baz will do the same he'll be shadowed by Jordan. What does this have to do with Stewart? I think between the generations, John Stewart was thrown in to as some users have argued, he was a diversity-adder. And because of that, he's had to just insert modern age as Baz takes the "2010s" Lantern and Jordan takes "definitive" and a lot of the young readers know Kyle, such as me, and then Guy is well...Guy.

#55 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

You just might get your wish. There is going to be a major creative change in a bit so the next writer might show John some more love.

#56 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@longbowhunter said:

John is my second favorite GL behind Guy. He'd be the best to put on a team. His military background means he knows combat tactics and how to follow orders, possibly lead. I feel like a hypocrite now though because I've never read Mosiac. Knowing Cully Hamner was involved just put it on my radar though.

If this were pre-flashpoint i'd dispute that Hal has military experience as well and knows how to lead but if Hal still has these things he hasn't shown em. hopefully he displays a bit more of it when he comes back. im all for John joining the JL as long as i get to see Hal somewhere else.

#57 Posted by herrweis (435 posts) - - Show Bio

DC hates all characters that aren't a Bat character,Superman or Hal Jordan

#58 Posted by marvel123 (377 posts) - - Show Bio

growing up as a kid in the 90's and early 2000's , i didn't read comics (i was broke)

so cartoons were the next best thing, when the justice league series came on, i always thought of john stewart as THEEE green lantern, at that time..........in the JL series he didn't seem like a spinoff of anyone, he was his own person.

and diversity-wise......i still prefer him to cyborg, just my opinion though

#59 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5530 posts) - - Show Bio
@Avenging-X-Bolt

@longbowhunter said:

John is my second favorite GL behind Guy. He'd be the best to put on a team. His military background means he knows combat tactics and how to follow orders, possibly lead. I feel like a hypocrite now though because I've never read Mosiac. Knowing Cully Hamner was involved just put it on my radar though.

If this were pre-flashpoint i'd dispute that Hal has military experience as well and knows how to lead but if Hal still has these things he hasn't shown em. hopefully he displays a bit more of it when he comes back. im all for John joining the JL as long as i get to see Hal somewhere else.

Hal was a pilot, that's a far cry from someone with ground combat experience. I'd put Kyle and John ahead of him in the leadership category.
#60 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt

@longbowhunter said:

John is my second favorite GL behind Guy. He'd be the best to put on a team. His military background means he knows combat tactics and how to follow orders, possibly lead. I feel like a hypocrite now though because I've never read Mosiac. Knowing Cully Hamner was involved just put it on my radar though.

If this were pre-flashpoint i'd dispute that Hal has military experience as well and knows how to lead but if Hal still has these things he hasn't shown em. hopefully he displays a bit more of it when he comes back. im all for John joining the JL as long as i get to see Hal somewhere else.

Hal was a pilot, that's a far cry from someone with ground combat experience.
What if i pilots plane is destroyed behind enemy lines? they dont train Pilots to fight back?
I'd put Kyle and John ahead of him in the leadership category.

Really? may i ask why?

#61 Posted by WaveMotionCannon (5530 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.

Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

#62 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

#63 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman is a pilot. That just makes Hal's job less cool

#64 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: Pilots do not get nearly as much ground combat training as grunts or jarheads especially not snipers.

#65 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

Batman is a pilot. That just makes Hal's job less cool

how exactly?

#66 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: It makes him less unique, and his piloting skills are less vital to the team. Batman will always be as good of a pilot as the plot needs him to be, so I don't think that Hal's piloting skills make him special. On the other hand, John's sniper skills and architectural background are unique. As is Kyle's artistic background.

#67 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

Batman is a pilot. That just makes Hal's job less cool

He's also a detective, a scientist, and a warrior. does that make the rest of the JL's jobs less cool?

#68 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: It makes Barry Allen's job look less cool IMO, yes.

#69 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@Superdork said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt: It makes Barry Allen's job look less cool IMO, yes.

but not say Superman's? (he's a journalist, not all that different from a detective)

#70 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain13 said:

@The Stegman said:

@Captain13:

@The Stegman said:

Because he's the most boring of the Earth Green Lanterns

So the only human ever to become a guardian is boring? Maybe because Johns and the other GL writers have done nothing with him. He was interesting in Mosaic and the cartoon, so?

And that's my point. Some people will consider him boring because he's never used. He's never at the center of galactic conflict. He's never the main character.

So just because he did one feat that makes him interesting? Hal Jordan was the first Green Lantern to become the Spectre, and be possessed by Parallax Kyle Rayner was Ion and the first lantern to master all of the emotional spectrum. Simon Baz was the first lantern to cure someone with willpower alone Guy Gardner was the first lantern with a stupid haircut. John isn't boring because he is underused, he's boring because he has no personality, he has one of two emotions 1. Grief because he killed someone 2. No nonsense, strict military drill Sargent Even in the JL cartoon he was boring, only interesting because others who were paired with him made it so, such as his romance with Hawkgirl, or his buddy cop routine with Wally.

Again, the problem is lack of development. Not his personality. For most of Geoff Johns's run Hal was a Mary Sue. Read Sinestro Corps War or Blackest Night. Zero personality. He's only recently gotten one in the New 52. And you could switch out Hal in any one of those pre-Flashpoint stories with any other human lantern.

--

Anyhoo, being a strict military guy works for Captain America, Batman (to some extent), Cyclops, Cable, and a bunch of other characters, so I call BS. It's development. I can make John more interesting in one Comicvine Post than Johns has in the 10 years that he's been on Green Lantern. Just watch:

John Stewart wasn't actually a marine. He was only honorably discharged as one. In reality, he did covert missions for the United States Delta Force. He served with distinction. Silver Star. Bronze Star. Legion of Merit. Purple Heart. John has them all. By all accounts, John was a brilliant soldier and brilliant leader. He earned awards for shooting pistols and rifles. He's got training in unconventional warfare, underwater and above surface demolitions, air combat control, and combat instruction.

His family has a long history in the military. John was born and raised on bases abroad. His first trip to the United States was to attend West Point. While there, he made a name for himself as a boxer and as an excellent scholar. Four years later, he serves in Iraq, Afghanistan, the Balkans, the Congo, and all across Latin America. His father fought in Vietnam. His older brother was also involved in special forces work until he lost his legs on a mission. His brother now works in the U.S. Treasury. His mother is a military surgeon.

The thing is, John had a habit of getting into trouble. He got into fights while standing up for fellow soldiers. He questioned leadership when it ran contrary to his beliefs. And on some missions, he got too close to his targets. In one case, he fell in love with a Mexican drug cartel leader's daughter. He tried to extricate her out of the organization after his mission went South, but she was killed. He feels responsible--because he is.

Worth noting is the fact that John served with Steve Trevor, Rex Mason, Rick Flagg, King Faraday, Sargeant Rock, and other DCU military heroes.

Due to John's extensive travel, he knows many languages, and he knows about many different cultures. But he doesn't feel at home anywhere. After requesting to resign from the military, he is honorably discharged, and the marine cover identity is given to him.

He travels the country righting wrongs for a few months. Eventually, he's drawn into a conflict involving the Green Lanterns on Earth, and he's recruited into the corps. He excels in space combat and diplomacy. He makes a name for himself as an incredible Green Lantern, but he still gets too close to the people he protects, and he still questions his superiors.

John is a workaholic because it distracts him from the fact that he feels most at home when he's not at home. He fits in with foreign cultures more than he fits in with his own. And the Green Lantern Corps needs bright lights like John Stewart now more than ever as the galaxy grows darker.

His love interests include: Katma Tui, his fellow corps member. Melani Tsai, his land lady and close friend on Earth. Fatality, a member of the star sapphires. Candy Johnson, his special forces contact with the CIA. Askari Asani, a princess on an alien world. And many others.

Personality: Think Jack Reacher meets Daniel Craig's Bond meets Captain America with some manly, Wolverine-type humor.

I have no problem believing this is John's official dossier.

#71 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt: I'm not impressed by Superman's job to begin with. I think it's different than Batman's detective stuff in that his writing and investigation caters more to public opinion than to law enforcement. I just think that it's different enough for me not to care. And he doesn't use journalistic skills when he's working with the JLA.

#72 Posted by DH69 (4258 posts) - - Show Bio

considering how bad the GL movie was mabye they'll make him the new cinimatic green jeans of the DC movies.

#73 Edited by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of John as an "arrogant, whiny, racist, hypocrite" before Justice League. Yes, John had a chip on his shoulder when he started. Yes, John was quick to play the race card. Given the times - 1970s - is that a shock? It's no surprise that an intelligent, free-thinking man like John would gripe at plight of black people at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if John acted similarly in the '80s too.

John had his own unique qualities in the Bronze age. There's an entire thread here dedicated to John's uses of the ring (e.g. scanning a virus to synthesize an antidote). His diplomacy skills alone should afford him a crucial role in Lantern activities. *shrugs*

It's my understanding that John was the first (human) Lantern to successfully challenge Hal.

#74 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of John as an "arrogant, whiny, racist, hypocrite" before Justice League. Yes, John had a chip on his shoulder when he started. Yes, John was quick to play the race card. Given the times - 1970s - is that a shock? It's no surprise that an intelligent, free-thinking man like John would gripe at plight of black people at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if John acted similarly in the '80s too.

Having a chip on your shoulder doesnt mean you arent a racist, as a matter of act a great deal of racists have chips on their shoulder. Well he called Hal a whitey after bellyaching about racism that would be hypocrisy and racism (he might have a reason, but it doesnt excuse it) When Katma Tui died John did nothing but blame Hal (even while Hal went and apprehended her killer), he also blamed Hal when he was incarcerated for a theft that Hal unknowingly committed(Even though the entire thing was John's own suggestion) and when Hal gave him a duplicate ring with which to escape John did nothing but pout before finally using the ring to cause a jailbreak which led to its own little situation with a band of revolutionaries and a racist serial killer. and do i even need to bring up Xanshi? Hell even Martian Manhunter hated him for that. so there would be the arrogance and whinyness.

I admit that John did change before JLU though.

i love how everyone constantly rags on Hal for his mistakes but praise Guy for his and ignores John's

John had his own unique qualities in the Bronze age. There's an entire thread here dedicated to John's uses of the ring (e.g. scanning a virus to synthesize an antidote). His diplomacy skills alone should afford him a crucial role in Lantern activities. *shrugs*

It's my understanding that John was the first (human) Lantern to successfully challenge Hal.

yeah. he beat Hal in a battle on the mind plane or something, they had few scuffles before which were kind of slanted

#75 Edited by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of John as an "arrogant, whiny, racist, hypocrite" before Justice League. Yes, John had a chip on his shoulder when he started. Yes, John was quick to play the race card. Given the times - 1970s - is that a shock? It's no surprise that an intelligent, free-thinking man like John would gripe at plight of black people at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if John acted similarly in the '80s too.

Having a chip on your shoulder doesnt mean you arent a racist, as a matter of act a great deal of racists have chips on their shoulder. Well he called Hal a whitey after bellyaching about racism that would be hypocrisy and racism (he might have a reason, but it doesnt excuse it) When Katma Tui died John did nothing but blame Hal (even while Hal went and apprehended her killer), he also blamed Hal when he was incarcerated for a theft that Hal unknowingly committed(Even though the entire thing was John's own suggestion) and when Hal gave him a duplicate ring with which to escape John did nothing but pout before finally using the ring to cause a jailbreak which led to its own little situation with a band of revolutionaries and a racist serial killer. and do i even need to bring up Xanshi? Hell even Martian Manhunter hated him for that. so there would be the arrogance and whinyness.

I admit that John did change before JLU though.

i love how everyone constantly rags on Hal for his mistakes but praise Guy for his and ignores John's

John had his own unique qualities in the Bronze age. There's an entire thread here dedicated to John's uses of the ring (e.g. scanning a virus to synthesize an antidote). His diplomacy skills alone should afford him a crucial role in Lantern activities. *shrugs*

It's my understanding that John was the first (human) Lantern to successfully challenge Hal.

yeah. he beat Hal in a battle on the mind plane or something, they had few scuffles before which were kind of slanted

I'm assuming you edited my quote with your "Having a chip..." in bold. Can you list the comics featuring these scenes? There's a comic shop near my school with a wide selection of back issues.

1) I'm assuming the scene you're referring to where John called Hal "whitey" was his debut right? Having a chip on one's shoulder excused racism, but it does explain anger. Note that it was also John who foiled the fake assassination attempt.

This is just conjecture, but let's take a look at Hal in GL/GA. Hal was criticized for not doing enough for blacks at the time, right? If that old black man thought Green Lantern didn't care, who's to say that wasn't popular opinion? What if John held this opinion when he met Hal? Opinions can take time to shake.

2) I haven't read the issue, but it's not unreasonable to suspect John blamed Hal because his wife's killer was/is Carol Ferris. John losing his wife to Hal's villain lover must have been maddening. Is it rational? No, but it's easy to sympathize with John. Again, the issue number would be much appreciated.

3 & 4) Please cite the issue number for the South Nambia incident. I'm reminded of the time Hal started a fight with John for "stealing" his girlfriend. I would cite Parallax, but he's been retconned out Hal's responsibility. But you're right- John made mistakes early in his career. On the other hand, John went on to reform the Mosaic. Learning to let go of his anger matured John tremendously. The moments you listed are like one long "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" scene.

5) Explain how the scuffles were slanted.

This is just more conjecture, but John has too impressive a resume to play second banana to Hal and Guy. John's a Marine, a sniper, an architect, a diplomat, a former world leader, a former Guardian, and he's still relegated to second string. *shrugs*

#76 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of John as an "arrogant, whiny, racist, hypocrite" before Justice League. Yes, John had a chip on his shoulder when he started. Yes, John was quick to play the race card. Given the times - 1970s - is that a shock? It's no surprise that an intelligent, free-thinking man like John would gripe at plight of black people at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if John acted similarly in the '80s too.

Having a chip on your shoulder doesnt mean you arent a racist, as a matter of act a great deal of racists have chips on their shoulder. Well he called Hal a whitey after bellyaching about racism that would be hypocrisy and racism (he might have a reason, but it doesnt excuse it) When Katma Tui died John did nothing but blame Hal (even while Hal went and apprehended her killer), he also blamed Hal when he was incarcerated for a theft that Hal unknowingly committed(Even though the entire thing was John's own suggestion) and when Hal gave him a duplicate ring with which to escape John did nothing but pout before finally using the ring to cause a jailbreak which led to its own little situation with a band of revolutionaries and a racist serial killer. and do i even need to bring up Xanshi? Hell even Martian Manhunter hated him for that. so there would be the arrogance and whininess.

I admit that John did change before JLU though.

i love how everyone constantly rags on Hal for his mistakes but praise Guy for his and ignores John's

John had his own unique qualities in the Bronze age. There's an entire thread here dedicated to John's uses of the ring (e.g. scanning a virus to synthesize an antidote). His diplomacy skills alone should afford him a crucial role in Lantern activities. *shrugs*

It's my understanding that John was the first (human) Lantern to successfully challenge Hal.

yeah. he beat Hal in a battle on the mind plane or something, they had few scuffles before which were kind of slanted

I'm assuming you edited my quote with your "Having a chip..." in bold. Can you list the comics featuring these scenes? There's a comic shop near my school with a wide selection of back issues.

I'm not 100% percent sure what your trying to say as far as your "edited comment". maybe i just need sleep. it's almost 3 in the morning here.

1) I'm assuming the scene you're referring to where John called Hal "whitey" was his debut right? Having a chip on one's shoulder excused racism, but it does explain anger. Note that it was also John who foiled the fake assassination attempt.

I'm hoping you mean "doesn't excuse racism, but it does explain anger"

This is just conjecture, but let's take a look at Hal in GL/GA. Hal was criticized for not doing enough for blacks at the time, right? If that old black man thought Green Lantern didn't care, who's to say that wasn't popular opinion? What if John held this opinion when he met Hal? Opinions can take time to shake.

The old man didn't think Hal didn't care. he even says in the next panel that he can see that Hal wants to do right. But i see what your trying to say.

2) I haven't read the issue, but it's not unreasonable to suspect John blamed Hal because his wife's killer was/is Carol Ferris. John losing his wife to Hal's villain lover must have been maddening. Is it rational? No, but it's easy to sympathize with John. Again, the issue number would be much appreciated.

Action Comics Weekly 601-606. I can sympathize with John but i cant completely excuse him. Hal sure as hell didnt deserve that.

3 & 4) Please cite the issue number for the South Nambia incident.

Green Lantern special # 1

I'm reminded of the time Hal started a fight with John for "stealing" his girlfriend. I would cite Parallax, but he's been retconned out Hal's responsibility. But you're right- John made mistakes early in his career. On the other hand, John went on to reform the Mosaic. Learning the error of his ways helped John mature tremendously. The moments you listed are like one long "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" scene.

It seems like the only one that really had any effect was Cosmic Odyssey to be honest.

5) Explain how the scuffles were slanted.

Another mistake on my part, my memory was hazy. i was under the impression that they're first fight was in the GL/GA series which would have supported my argument (Hals ring had been partially depowered at the time but after reviewing the issue i was wrong. I made a similar mistake with the nambia fight , i had assumed that Hal was going easy on John since the latter was ignorant of the terrorists intentions but after reviewing the scans that clearly wasn't the case.

This is just more conjecture, but John has too impressive a resume to play second banana to Hal and Guy. John's a Marine, a sniper, an architect, a diplomat, a former world leader, a former Guardian, and he's still relegated to second string. *shrugs*

I agree that he does deserve a bigger role, sometimes i tend to get a little carried away, my apologies. and whats with the shrugging?

#77 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

No, they didnt. Hal was trained by Kilowog and Sinestro. John was trained by Hal and later Katma Tui

#78 Edited by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

I don't entirely agree with your assessment of John as an "arrogant, whiny, racist, hypocrite" before Justice League. Yes, John had a chip on his shoulder when he started. Yes, John was quick to play the race card. Given the times - 1970s - is that a shock? It's no surprise that an intelligent, free-thinking man like John would gripe at plight of black people at the time. I wouldn't be surprised if John acted similarly in the '80s too.

Having a chip on your shoulder doesnt mean you arent a racist, as a matter of act a great deal of racists have chips on their shoulder. Well he called Hal a whitey after bellyaching about racism that would be hypocrisy and racism (he might have a reason, but it doesnt excuse it) When Katma Tui died John did nothing but blame Hal (even while Hal went and apprehended her killer), he also blamed Hal when he was incarcerated for a theft that Hal unknowingly committed(Even though the entire thing was John's own suggestion) and when Hal gave him a duplicate ring with which to escape John did nothing but pout before finally using the ring to cause a jailbreak which led to its own little situation with a band of revolutionaries and a racist serial killer. and do i even need to bring up Xanshi? Hell even Martian Manhunter hated him for that. so there would be the arrogance and whininess.

I admit that John did change before JLU though.

i love how everyone constantly rags on Hal for his mistakes but praise Guy for his and ignores John's

John had his own unique qualities in the Bronze age. There's an entire thread here dedicated to John's uses of the ring (e.g. scanning a virus to synthesize an antidote). His diplomacy skills alone should afford him a crucial role in Lantern activities. *shrugs*

It's my understanding that John was the first (human) Lantern to successfully challenge Hal.

yeah. he beat Hal in a battle on the mind plane or something, they had few scuffles before which were kind of slanted

I'm assuming you edited my quote with your "Having a chip..." in bold. Can you list the comics featuring these scenes? There's a comic shop near my school with a wide selection of back issues.

I'm not 100% percent sure what your trying to say as far as your "edited comment". maybe i just need sleep. it's almost 3 in the morning here.

1) I'm assuming the scene you're referring to where John called Hal "whitey" was his debut right? Having a chip on one's shoulder excused racism, but it does explain anger. Note that it was also John who foiled the fake assassination attempt.

I'm hoping you mean "doesn't excuse racism, but it does explain anger"

This is just conjecture, but let's take a look at Hal in GL/GA. Hal was criticized for not doing enough for blacks at the time, right? If that old black man thought Green Lantern didn't care, who's to say that wasn't popular opinion? What if John held this opinion when he met Hal? Opinions can take time to shake.

The old man didn't think Hal didn't care. he even says in the next panel that he can see that Hal wants to do right. But i see what your trying to say.

2) I haven't read the issue, but it's not unreasonable to suspect John blamed Hal because his wife's killer was/is Carol Ferris. John losing his wife to Hal's villain lover must have been maddening. Is it rational? No, but it's easy to sympathize with John. Again, the issue number would be much appreciated.

Action Comics Weekly 601-606. I can sympathize with John but i cant completely excuse him. Hal sure as hell didnt deserve that.

3 & 4) Please cite the issue number for the South Nambia incident.

Green Lantern special # 1

I'm reminded of the time Hal started a fight with John for "stealing" his girlfriend. I would cite Parallax, but he's been retconned out Hal's responsibility. But you're right- John made mistakes early in his career. On the other hand, John went on to reform the Mosaic. Learning the error of his ways helped John mature tremendously. The moments you listed are like one long "With Great Power Comes Great Responsibility" scene.

It seems like the only one that really had any effect was Cosmic Odyssey to be honest.

5) Explain how the scuffles were slanted.

Another mistake on my part, my memory was hazy. i was under the impression that they're first fight was in the GL/GA series which would have supported my argument (Hals ring had been partially depowered at the time but after reviewing the issue i was wrong. I made a similar mistake with the nambia fight , i had assumed that Hal was going easy on John since the latter was ignorant of the terrorists intentions but after reviewing the scans that clearly wasn't the case.

This is just more conjecture, but John has too impressive a resume to play second banana to Hal and Guy. John's a Marine, a sniper, an architect, a diplomat, a former world leader, a former Guardian, and he's still relegated to second string. *shrugs*

I agree that he does deserve a bigger role, sometimes i tend to get a little carried away, my apologies. and whats with the shrugging?

1) Yes, I meant "doesn't excuse racism"

3 & 4) Well yes, a person can't shrug off destroying a planet. That's an ego killer. People tend to rethink their lives in those moments.

Thank you for the issue numbers.

#79 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

No, they didnt. Hal was trained by Kilowog and Sinestro. John was trained by Hal and later Katma Tui

But Hal and John received the same degree of training, no? The standard amount?

#80 Edited by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

No, they didnt. Hal was trained by Kilowog and Sinestro. John was trained by Hal and later Katma Tui

But Hal and John received the same degree of training, no? The standard amount?

edit: i believe its been stated but Kilowog has been said to be the toughest drill sergeant in the corps while John was "tapping" his instructor so.....take what you will from that.

#81 Posted by VampireSelektor (749 posts) - - Show Bio

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

No, they didnt. Hal was trained by Kilowog and Sinestro. John was trained by Hal and later Katma Tui

But Hal and John received the same degree of training, no? The standard amount?

edit: i believe its been stated but Kilowog has been said to be the toughest drill sergeant in the corps while John was "tapping" his instructor so.....take what you will from that.

Hell, he must have been good :)

#82 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@VampireSelektor said:

@Avenging-X-Bolt said:

@WaveMotionCannon said:

I'm no GL expert ( I read him sporadically in the past, more intensely in the last 5 years) but he's always seemed to be arrogant and not too bright at times. I like Johns stoic, military minded attitude and Kyle's thinking outside the box more than Hal's attitude at times.
aahh, so im guessing you came in around Johns run as well? thats too bad, Johns doesnt due Hal Justice, skill wise anyway.
Pilots don't receive a quarter of the training combat troops do.

what about pilots who have trained with the JLA, JSA, Sinestro, and Kilowog : )

Hal's piloting skills don't define him so much as they provide a context for his bravery. John and Hal presumably received the same ring training, but John is the better flyer.

No, they didnt. Hal was trained by Kilowog and Sinestro. John was trained by Hal and later Katma Tui

But Hal and John received the same degree of training, no? The standard amount?

edit: i believe its been stated but Kilowog has been said to be the toughest drill sergeant in the corps while John was "tapping" his instructor so.....take what you will from that.

Hell, he must have been good :)

Well she did marry him lol,he obviously was doing a couple things right. to bad Hal couldnt get a way with that.....or maybe he did......oh god i cant unsee that....

#83 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

John Stewart is a second grade GL. A B list at best, mostly a C list.

#84 Posted by ssejllenrad (12847 posts) - - Show Bio

All these talk about Stewart being black is bs! He's white! I've watched enough The Daily Show to see that!

#85 Posted by Toa_Manaia (127 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe that DC Comics could sit down and watch you know the entire DCAU Justice League and Justice League Unlimited run, I personally liked John Stewart there and there were many cues that could of been used there. I believe DC and Warner Bros dropped the ball big time with the Green Lantern movie, many people were expecting John Stewart (non comic book reading people) as the Lantern not Hal Jordan.

Personally I have not much love for Hal, give me Stewart, Gardner and Rayner any day of the week

#86 Edited by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

More evidence that DC hates John Stewart:

Fialkov Left DC Comics Over Plans To Kill Off John Stewart, DC’s Black Green Lantern
Yesterday, Bleeding Cool ran the news that Joshua Hale Fialkov was walking off his two Green Lantern books before a single issue had been published. It was soon confirmed by Fialkov and DC Comics representatives. What wasn’t addressed is exactly why.
Fialkov did post;
There were editorial decisions about the direction of the book that conflicted with the story I was hired to tell, and I felt that it was better to let DC tell their story the way they want. I’m grateful for the opportunity and I’ll miss working with the entire Green Lantern team.This was not an easy decision to make emotionally or financially, but, I’m sure it was the right decision for both me, and for the Green Lantern books. The outpouring of support, your kind words and well wishes means so much to me and my family.
I understand that the editorial input for both Fialkov’s books, and fellow walker-outer Andy Diggle‘sAction Comics, were in direct contradiction of the promises made at the DC Creative Summit by Dan DiDio, backed by Diane Nelson. That once an overview of an arc had been greenlit by editorial, it wouldn’t be changed by editorial. One creator told me that the promise lasted four days.
But for Fialkov it seemed it wasn’t so much that there were editorial changes, but what they meant.
I have been told by a number of high profile industry sources that Fialkov was asked to change his upcoming story to one that killed off Green Lantern John Stewart, DC Comics’ most prominent black character. And that is why he quit.
Created by Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams in 1971, he was the lead character in the Green Lantern book for much of the eighties, and was the Green Lantern in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited animated series. Such was the popularity of that incarnation that when Ryan Reynolds was announced as the star of the Green Lantern movie, much of the online response was outraged that he was being played by a white actor.
Since the DC Relaunch, the comics line has increased the amount of prominent black characters in the line, from Static to Batwing to Voodoo to Mister Terrific, as well as Cyborg joining the Justice League. And for those whose books were cancelled, the characters have remained players in other titles. But John Stewart has remained the one with the highest profile, shared the lead with Guy Gardner inGreen Lantern Corps, and it’s there that this story was planned to play out.
Josh’s departure from the books doesn’t mean that the story is dead of course. Indeed, I understand that this is the story the new guys will be writing. And it’s John Stewart they will be killing off.
Unless of course, the internet can get them to change their minds.
Come on internet. You know what to do next.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03/21/fialkov-left-dc-comics-over-plans-to-kill-off-john-stewart-dcs-black-green-lantern/

#87 Posted by ccraft (5384 posts) - - Show Bio

Because Hal is cooler than John!

#88 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

Hm. Came here to post the killing him off thing, but somebody beat me to it.

#89 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (13400 posts) - - Show Bio

@OutlawRenegade said:

More evidence that DC hates John Stewart:

Fialkov Left DC Comics Over Plans To Kill Off John Stewart, DC’s Black Green Lantern
Yesterday, Bleeding Cool ran the news that Joshua Hale Fialkov was walking off his two Green Lantern books before a single issue had been published. It was soon confirmed by Fialkov and DC Comics representatives. What wasn’t addressed is exactly why.
Fialkov did post;
There were editorial decisions about the direction of the book that conflicted with the story I was hired to tell, and I felt that it was better to let DC tell their story the way they want. I’m grateful for the opportunity and I’ll miss working with the entire Green Lantern team.This was not an easy decision to make emotionally or financially, but, I’m sure it was the right decision for both me, and for the Green Lantern books. The outpouring of support, your kind words and well wishes means so much to me and my family.
I understand that the editorial input for both Fialkov’s books, and fellow walker-outer Andy Diggle‘sAction Comics, were in direct contradiction of the promises made at the DC Creative Summit by Dan DiDio, backed by Diane Nelson. That once an overview of an arc had been greenlit by editorial, it wouldn’t be changed by editorial. One creator told me that the promise lasted four days.
But for Fialkov it seemed it wasn’t so much that there were editorial changes, but what they meant.
I have been told by a number of high profile industry sources that Fialkov was asked to change his upcoming story to one that killed off Green Lantern John Stewart, DC Comics’ most prominent black character. And that is why he quit.
Created by Dennis O’Neil and Neal Adams in 1971, he was the lead character in the Green Lantern book for much of the eighties, and was the Green Lantern in the Justice League and Justice League Unlimited animated series. Such was the popularity of that incarnation that when Ryan Reynolds was announced as the star of the Green Lantern movie, much of the online response was outraged that he was being played by a white actor.
Since the DC Relaunch, the comics line has increased the amount of prominent black characters in the line, from Static to Batwing to Voodoo to Mister Terrific, as well as Cyborg joining the Justice League. And for those whose books were cancelled, the characters have remained players in other titles. But John Stewart has remained the one with the highest profile, shared the lead with Guy Gardner inGreen Lantern Corps, and it’s there that this story was planned to play out.
Josh’s departure from the books doesn’t mean that the story is dead of course. Indeed, I understand that this is the story the new guys will be writing. And it’s John Stewart they will be killing off.
Unless of course, the internet can get them to change their minds.
Come on internet. You know what to do next.

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2013/03/21/fialkov-left-dc-comics-over-plans-to-kill-off-john-stewart-dcs-black-green-lantern/

@Gambit1024 said:

Hm. Came here to post the killing him off thing, but somebody beat me to it.

apparently they've changed their minds about it.

#90 Posted by Gambit1024 (9890 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd hope so. We know about it now.

#91 Edited by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i'm glad they didn't  kill  him off. off-topic right quick, they need to introduce kaldur into the comics, aqualad is one of my favorite  characters from yj besides nightwing and wally west.

#92 Posted by RustyRoy (13204 posts) - - Show Bio

Johns doesn't want him to become more popular Hal Jordan, that's why.

Online
#93 Posted by Saren (25891 posts) - - Show Bio

@RustyRoy said:

Johns doesn't want him to become more popular Hal Jordan, that's why.

Why do people say this? Johns isn't involved with the GLverse any more, he doesn't edit the franchise and therefore cannot pass out editorial edicts like the one that compelled Fialkov to leave, and considering that Hal has been getting his ass kicked in every other new 52 appearance that's taken place under Johns, I doubt the man even cares about Stewart's popularity vis-a-vis Jordan's.

John and Guy have always been the backup Lanterns. Neither of them have ever had or ever will have the kind of vital roles that Hal and Kyle have played in the larger history of the Green Lantern Corps. There is no risk of Stewart replacing Jordan any time soon......under any writer.

Moderator
#94 Posted by RustyRoy (13204 posts) - - Show Bio

@CitizenBane said:

@RustyRoy said:

Johns doesn't want him to become more popular Hal Jordan, that's why.

Why do people say this? Johns isn't involved with the GLverse any more, he doesn't edit the franchise and therefore cannot pass out editorial edicts like the one that compelled Fialkov to leave, and considering that Hal has been getting his ass kicked in every other new 52 appearance that's taken place under Johns, I doubt the man even cares about Stewart's popularity vis-a-vis Jordan's.

John and Guy have always been the backup Lanterns. Neither of them have ever had or ever will have the kind of vital roles that Hal and Kyle have played in the larger history of the Green Lantern Corps. There is no risk of Stewart replacing Jordan any time soon......under any writer.

I said that because I suspect this was the plan all along, to kill John. Johns,Didio wrote the outline of the New-52,they've planned all the big events and how small events can lead it there, they want the writers to follow that outline which is why Fialkov left. Why do you think a few months after Baz shows up they want to kill off John? They could've killed Guy, John is more popular than him, he's even more well known than Kyle not to mention their most popular Afro-American character. Though I could be wrong,maybe he didn't have anything to do with it but still I don't believe that just because he isn't writing the GL series means that he doesn't any input in the on the direction of the book.

Online
#95 Edited by Captain13 (3385 posts) - - Show Bio

Look, I'm being 100% honest when I say that I totally suspected that this was it. People say that when it comes to John Stewart that I'm a conspiracy theorist, but I'm not. DC publishing does not like the character. They cancelled Mosaic when it was at it was selling gangbusters even though the writer and artist wanted to go on. Who does that?

In an unusual move, and although sales of the book were very strong, Green Lantern: Mosaic was cancelled early into its run. In an interview, Cully Hamner revealed the reasons behind the cancellation:
(A)s I was told at the time, it didn’t fit with editorial vision (whatever that means). Sales didn’t matter, fan support didn’t matter; the first issue sold about 210,000 copies and my last issue sold about 70,000, so there was plenty of support for the book. It was marked for cancellation when issue #5 came out, and they allowed Gerry Jones a year to wrap it up, but there was no doubt that it was being cancelled because somebody upstairs just didn’t care for it. So, I had a feeling after a while of creatively being against a brick wall, and got out before the end. You pay your money, you takes your chances. That’s the biz.[1]

Green Lantern: Mosaic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We all know some people at have a hard on for Hal and hate seeing him be surpassed by John. They were pissed when Bruce Timm and Dwayne McDuffie chose to use him in Justice League. They spent more than a decade marginalizing the character by not using him or only using him in the background where he did nothing. Some would say that the writers didn't know how to handle him because of his stern personality, but that doesn't make sense when you remember that Captain America, Cyclops, and Batman are just as stern. Now they want to kill him off like they did Ryan Choi. I would leave too.

I'm actually starting to think Baz was created just so the GL writers couldn't be called racist when they killed off John. They probably started planning his death after the backlash for not using him in the GL movie.

Sorry, DC, there will always be John Stewart fans.

#96 Posted by Black_Claw (3007 posts) - - Show Bio

Hopefully John will join the JLA soon.

#97 Posted by Black_Claw (3007 posts) - - Show Bio

Well looks like John is gonna be taking center stage in the next issue of GL corps. It's a good step in the right direction for him.

#98 Posted by thejman251 (435 posts) - - Show Bio

- Being that he has his own solo book (essentially) with Guy being a red lantern, i don't think DC hates him.

#99 Posted by Tacos_Kickass (844 posts) - - Show Bio

The Justice League already have their token black guy.

#100 Posted by SavageDragon (2252 posts) - - Show Bio

@thejman251: except for Kyle...right cause I mean he is basically the Star of the book for a lot of the series.

Anyway I love John Stewart in the JL Animated series. I hope he makes a comeback because that version of him was really awesome.

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