john stewart appreciation thread

#1 Posted by krisboyz781 (955 posts) - - Show Bio

who likes him and who has scans

#2 Posted by RavagingHamster (836 posts) - - Show Bio

i like him, but no scans. if im not mistaken, according to a poll most young adults get their news from him lol

#3 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

John sets his ring to automatically blast anything that moves above the speed of sound. 
 
He warns Superman not even to twitch. 
  
(Supes has been under Maxwell Lords control. JLA is on edge) 

 

This is the famous scan of John's willpower exceeding the capabilities of the ring, from when John tries to recreate an entire Star System  
Nice monologue of John's thoughts too

 

 

John's ring gives him X-ray vision 

 
After a group of beings destroyed an entire galaxy, GL's try to stop them. They discover the beings are unaffected by light, so John Stewart charges sub-atomic particles to create an eternal prison that responds to the beings and whatever they attempt 
 
 

 

A deadly plague sweeps over Xanshi, John effortlessly creates a cure 

 
 
John Stewart flies around the world before a group of supervillains can react, and attacks from behind 

 
 
 
Parallax is infecting the GL rings, thus removing the morals of the ring bearers. John Stewart takes down the JLA, takes out Supes with one hit, rapid fires at Flash, and turns WW's lasso against her 

 

 
 
 
John creates a hybrid ultrasonic/light alarm that responds to specific sonar resonances in the city, so he knows when and where to respond to danger, weeding out any unnecessary distractions 
 
 

After the League was thrashed around in the Watchtower (and the Fortress of Solitude) by Fernus, John recreates a "fully functional and self-sustaining comminications/scanning station" which even taps into the JLA teleporters, with his ring  

 
Ring gives John telepathy and allows the league to commnicate underwater 

 
 
John and Sinestro's energy clashes with the force and brightness of a Supernova 
Sinestro calls John a first rate representative of the corps 

 

 
 
#4 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice pic of John and his construct Marine Corps 

 
 

Wally says that out of all the Green Lanterns' constructs, watching John Stewart's take form is the most fascinating. Since Wally sees at super-speed, he can see the complexity of each part take shape in mere seconds, from the inside out

 

 

After being slashed open by a mental projection from Fernus, John goes to Oa on pure force of will, and is repaired by Ganthet

 

Then upgraded 

 

He then fights Fernus, and is the only one to deal damage to Fernus up to this point

 


 

Then he teleports the JLA to safety 

 

John then explains to the JLA what happened back there. 
That he went to Oa, and Ganthet healed him, and taught John the song of the spheres, the original language of the universe, thus John could reroute his brain activity and evade telepathy.

 
 
John blasts Parallax Kyle after he consumed Hal


 
 
 John Stewart recreates the Anti-Life catcher weapon of the New Gods effortlessly after scanning it earlier 

 
 A Black Lantern notes John Stewart checking for Xanshi's structural flaws

 
#5 Posted by Vitality (1761 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't even capitalize his name in an appreciation thread? 
Shame
#6 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio


John Stewart takes on Black Lantern Xanshi

 

 

 
John, thinking tactically, unleashes all of the power in Driq's Lantern with an expert sniper shot 

 

 

 
 Even fighting solo on a planet-wide zombie apocalypse, John shows nothing but will, no fear whatsoever 

 

 

 

 

After surviving the assault of millions from his greatest past failure, along with the emotional provocation of his greatest past love, John sees through the undead army's ruse as a plot to distract him, and calls for backup

 
#7 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

John one-shots Killer Frost

 
John sweeps the hospital with an X-Ray-like scan, looking for the lost JLA members, while chiding Black Lightning about his change in hairstyles

 

John's old costume that he wore at the beginning of the Mosaic series

 


 
John explains how his mind breaks down structures, from sports, to politics, to family, to architecture, to philosophy, and most interestingly, music 
Very cool insight into his thoughts


 

 

John Stewart is chosen to become an Alpha-Lantern, said by the Guardians to be the "highest honor one can achieve within the Green Lantern Corps" (an offer John wisely refuses because of the vagueness of the Guardians)  

 

 
Hand of God Ion/Kyle Rayner, recounts John Stewart's origin as a Green Lantern, watching him stand up to a racist cop on a street corner in Detroit

 

 

After Parallax destroyed the Green Lantern Corps, John Stewart became the leader of the Darkstars


 
 
John blasts Parallax with some of the energy Hal used to heal him with in Emerald Night (he later finds out that this power only works when someone else is in danger, but not when he is in danger, in this case it was Guy Gardner)     
 

 

 
  
During the Justice Story arc, Hal gives his ring to the only other person he trusts with it

 
 
John Stewart
 
John eradicates Braniac's nanotech probes from the atmosphere, puts out all of the fires in the city, wipes the knowledge of the JLA's identities and their friends from the minds of their enemies, and frees everyone from Braniac's control

 

John, back on the job (after Kyle lost faith in humanity and left for space), making cool, complicated structures to stop a human trafficking ordeal (John noted the irony of this situation happeneing right after Kyle's decision)

 
John is known as the best flyer of the Earth Lanterns
 
 
Both Hannu and Kyle react in amazement, as John repairs Alpha Lantern Boodikka's circuitry

 

John asserts his authority to Icon 

 


   
#8 Edited by DEGRAAF (7870 posts) - - Show Bio

He is the one i grew up watching and knowing. I like Hal and Kyle but i've always been fond of John and i love his constructs. 
 
 
Also i didnt realize he had so much will power. I knew he had alot, but more then his ring could handle? I thought Kyle or Hal had the most will power
#9 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

The Xudarians make a statue of John Stewart on their home planet next to the Green Lanterns of their native home, in honor of John protecting their city during the Mosaic arc
 

 
#10 Edited by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio

Pivotal moments in John's costume alteration/fights with Hal:
 
The issue cover where reporter Tawny Young reveals John Stewart's identity to the public
 
 
Reporter Tawny Young announces John Stewart's identity to the public, and interviews Superman and Green Arrow
 

John is then seen with his mask removed completely (since there is no longer a need for it), as he fights Sonar for the first time


He surprises Sonar with a tactic that Hal never thought of: creating a sonic boom



John has Katma create a counter-frequency to trick Sonar into absorbing silence when John changes his ring's pulse

 
This makes Sonar powerless, causing him to fall unconcious. And from here on Green Lantern John Stewart does his job without a mask (permanent change to his costume)


John and Hal get into a fight


This fight is regarding some decisions John has made based on false information, along with the publicity the racist government will get if John succeeds in destroying the ships, as well as Hal's past morality issues, and where to draw the line in terms of how to use their power


Hal intends to beat into John that they shouldn't use their powers as if they were Gods, but a bystander somehow pulls Hal off of John, who then relatiates against Hal with a construct fist, nearly taking Hal out of commission with one blow


This sends Hal straight through the two ships, underwater, and nearly knocks Hal unconcious  

Hal struggles to stay awake and offset John's attack

 
The ships are blown up by remote by the extremists who lied to him and orchestrated this publicity stunt. John saves the racist government officials and sees that he has the option to end the lives of the oppressors of the South Nambians (which he of course doesn't do, even though the people chant for it)


Situations are escalating on the Mosaic planet, John figures he has to get down to the blood and bone, and touch things with his real self, so he makes a pivotal decision, and the gloves come off (permanent change to his costume)



Hal confronts John about his relationship with Rose (whom he doesn't believe left him for John of her own free will), and tries to probe John's mind without his permission




They get into a construct fight, then elevate it to the mental plane, and Hal hits John with every painful memory he can from John's past





Hal appears to have beaten John, and then claims that he knows him, and that he is just a child on the inside, John gets back up with a different mentality and punches Hal down



John relatiates with multiple personas, reflecting aspects of his psyche. Hal then multiplies himself as well, but each of them are carbon copies of the rest.




  

 
John explains how he can never have a true victory in society, as opposed to Hal, and tells Hal to not pass judgement on his sanity by Hal's own biased perspective of the principle. One of John's mind construct personas punches Hal out., They come out of the astral plane with Hal unconcious on the ground and John standing over him, but John's suit no longer has the green strip down his chest, or the waistband that was present at the beginning of the fight (relatively permanent change to the costume, there is at least one issue I know of where the artist draws John's suit the old way [even mentioning this very fight in that scene] but for the remainder of the Mosaic series his GL suit has no chest or waist stripe, along with John's appearance as Green Lantern in later issues)



 
(Honorable mention) Eclipso takes over Hal who fights John, using the fact that John doesn't want to hurt Hal to his advantage

Eclipso sifts through Hal's mind for more psychological banter at John (referencing their recent fight in Mosaic, yet John is drawn with the previous incarnation of his costume by the artist)


#11 Posted by John Valentine (16270 posts) - - Show Bio

I like John Stewart. I hope he stays as a Green Lantern at the end of WOTGLs.

#12 Posted by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
When Flash and Kid Amazo were fighting, running at extremely high velocities, John Stewart managed to move in front of them and create a force field to stop Kid Amazo, and Flash was amazed that he was able to do this because of how fast they were running....   
 John Reacts as Fast as the Flash...
 
John disables Martian Manhunter...  
When a Doomsday device, created by the Aspect of the Anti-Life being, converts a planet into Anti-Matter, shoots it into the sun and then causes the sun to go Nova John’s Auto-Protect feature saves both him and the Martian Manhunter... In short terms John survived a Solar System buster...
Soloing the JLA....
#13 Posted by fodigg (6146 posts) - - Show Bio

When I grew up, GL was some kid named Kyle and this other "lantern" was bumming around with a yellow ring named Guy and they were both lame. So I looked through some back issues and of the three other GLs Stewart was the coolest. 
 
Then the JL animated show came out and he was GL number one, and he was awesome. He's been my favorite Lantern since and I haven't even read most of his heydey stuff. Got his mini-statue in my cube at work though. 
 
I wish he'd become the definitive GL, like Wally did for Flash (none of this Barry Allen nonsense please).

#14 Posted by YoungGunna (2439 posts) - - Show Bio
@fodigg: Good to see another John Stewart fan he's my favorite Lantern also and I agree with the last part...
#15 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio


Hal is called to JLA duty, but is incapacitated before he can respond. His ring immediately follows default protocol and obtains John Stewart 
 
 
 
 
Supes questions him, but Green Arrow defends him

 
 

When the story villain's bomb goes off to destroy the entire town, John protects it from the shockwave, and rebuilds all of the building that were destroyed instantaneously, as if new  
   
 

#16 Posted by TwinTiger (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Finally; after all attempts to downplay him in recent comics, I'm glad to see some props given to John Stewart. Great collection of scans. So why do they say Hal is the greatest Green Lantern again?

#17 Posted by master_wright (59 posts) - - Show Bio

This a great collection it really does the character justice.

#18 Posted by Steps (657 posts) - - Show Bio

John Stewart... the destroyer of planets

#20 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio
John is a hero to the people
Haters gonna hate...
Whatta man, whatta man, what a mighty good man
#Man Date
Remember when John was written as an intellectual? #Existentialism
Guy's night in
John's very first appearance! Look at the social crusader at work!
John undercover as Hunger Dog. What an alpha.
John in Justice. Art by Alex Ross
Those are some complex constructs, man
John in his youth
John is pretty smart. He's a social crusader, an ex-marine, and an architect. The guardians chose well!

#21 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@steps said:

John Stewart... the destroyer of planets

Not exactly accurate.

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

2) Mogo- John made the hard choice of taking out a friend to save the universe. Without his actions a key battle against Krona would have been lost. Not only does John feel saddened by this event, but Mogo has also reformed. We can move on.

John has been nothing but a hero.

#22 Edited by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

Moderator
#23 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

Best feat ever he can have is - being the biggest reason for the destruction of two innocent planets.

#24 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

@tdk_1997 said:

Best feat ever he can have is - being the biggest reason for the destruction of two innocent planets.

The best feat you can ever have is typing BS on a keyboard. You do realize that talking **** about a character on his/her RESPECT thread and trying to start **** with his/her fans only makes you look like an ***, right?

#25 Edited by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

Best feat ever he can have is - being the biggest reason for the destruction of two innocent planets.

The best feat you can ever have is typing BS on a keyboard. You do realize that talking **** about a character on his/her RESPECT thread and trying to start **** with his/her fans only makes you look like an ***, right?

I like John Stewart and I was just joking.

#26 Posted by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival. I'd be very surprised if the Guardians forgave him, not because it was an unforgivable crime or anything like that, but because I doubt they'd even care: the consequences of Xanshi's destruction were almost always entirely related to John alone. No one else in the GLC really cared or even brought it up much. It was always just something for John alone to mope about, later it became something for Fatality to seek revenge over, and Martian Manhunter ceased to care about it after Cosmic Odyssey was over as well, and never brought it up again. There are a few GL's who can say they've exceeded the founders of the GLC, and those GL's have actually done things in those positions that changed the Corps forever, so I'm not exactly sure why John becoming the first mortal guardian makes a difference ---- it's not like he did anything worth mentioning in terms of the larger mythos of the Corps.

Fatality forgave John after trying to kill him for almost a decade, and regret doesn't change the fact that his behavior and his behavior alone drove the final nail in Xanshi's coffin, but I guess those who died on Xanshi will be comforted by the knowledge that John is really sorry about it.

I still fail to see why anyone would think John's sordid affair with Xanshi is in any way comparable to Tomar's and Kilowog's cases.

Moderator
#27 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

@superdork said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival. I'd be very surprised if the Guardians forgave him, not because it was an unforgivable crime or anything like that, but because I doubt they'd even care: the consequences of Xanshi's destruction were almost always entirely related to John alone. No one else in the GLC really cared or even brought it up much. It was always just something for John alone to mope about, later it became something for Fatality to seek revenge over, and Martian Manhunter ceased to care about it after Cosmic Odyssey was over as well, and never brought it up again. There are a few GL's who can say they've exceeded the founders of the GLC, and those GL's have actually done things in those positions that changed the Corps forever, so I'm not exactly sure why John becoming the first mortal guardian makes a difference ---- it's not like he did anything worth mentioning in terms of the larger mythos of the Corps.

Fatality forgave John after trying to kill him for almost a decade, and regret doesn't change the fact that his behavior and his behavior alone drove the final nail in Xanshi's coffin, but I guess those who died on Xanshi will be comforted by the knowledge that John is really sorry about it.

I still fail to see why anyone would think John's sordid affair with Xanshi is in any way comparable to Tomar's and Kilowog's cases.

Superdork's point is failing to save=/=Destroy, no matter how cocky he was. It's not like he got angry and turned into a villain or something, only to have Johns retcon that. =P And no other GL has become a mortal guardian no matter how much you want to downplay that.

Writers need to move beyond the planet thing. It is pure laziness.

And to not see how much John has grown up since his cocky days says more about you than Superdork or John Stewart. Grudges don't make life fun, do they.

#28 Posted by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival. I'd be very surprised if the Guardians forgave him, not because it was an unforgivable crime or anything like that, but because I doubt they'd even care: the consequences of Xanshi's destruction were almost always entirely related to John alone. No one else in the GLC really cared or even brought it up much. It was always just something for John alone to mope about, later it became something for Fatality to seek revenge over, and Martian Manhunter ceased to care about it after Cosmic Odyssey was over as well, and never brought it up again. There are a few GL's who can say they've exceeded the founders of the GLC, and those GL's have actually done things in those positions that changed the Corps forever, so I'm not exactly sure why John becoming the first mortal guardian makes a difference ---- it's not like he did anything worth mentioning in terms of the larger mythos of the Corps.

Fatality forgave John after trying to kill him for almost a decade, and regret doesn't change the fact that his behavior and his behavior alone drove the final nail in Xanshi's coffin, but I guess those who died on Xanshi will be comforted by the knowledge that John is really sorry about it.

I still fail to see why anyone would think John's sordid affair with Xanshi is in any way comparable to Tomar's and Kilowog's cases.

Superdork's point is failing to save=/=Destroy, no matter how cocky he was. It's not like he got angry and turned into a villain or something, only to have Johns retcon that. =P And no other GL has become a mortal guardian no matter how much you want to downplay that.

Writers need to move beyond the planet thing. It is pure laziness.

And to not see how much John has grown up since his cocky days says more about you than Superdork or John Stewart. Grudges don't make life fun, do they.

I'm well aware of what Superdork's point is; the fact remains that Xanshi died because of John's arrogance, its end can be linked directly to the mistakes he made. Plain and simple fact. Krypton didn't die because of Tomar Re's arrogance, it died because unforeseeable circumstances prevented Tomar from coming to Krypton's aid. Bolovax Vik didn't die because of Kilowog's arrogance, it died because forces far, far beyond Kilowog's control were at work. Neither of them were culpable agents in the death of those worlds. John, like it or not, was a culpable agent in Xanshi's demise, and even he doesn't deny that. Superdork claimed John's case was similar to the cases of Tomar and Kilowog; this assessment is incorrect, his point is wrong.

I don't have to downplay anything. I just have to point out the glaringly obvious: John becoming a Guardian made no major difference whatsoever to anyone other than John. It's insignificant to the Corps. When people talk about monumental moments in the history of the GLC, they bring up Hal becoming Parallax, or Kyle becoming the Torchbearer and later Ion. Things that actually made a difference to the Green Lanterns and continue to do so till this day. Literally no one brings up John becoming a Guardian as something that made a difference to the GLC......because it didn't.

I don't doubt John has grown up since his cocky days; placed in the same position as he was in Cosmic Odyssey, I'm sure his decision would be radically different and a lot more rational and considered. I'm merely pointing out that an incorrect statement is, in fact, incorrect. Pay attention.

Moderator
#29 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@outlawrenegade said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival. I'd be very surprised if the Guardians forgave him, not because it was an unforgivable crime or anything like that, but because I doubt they'd even care: the consequences of Xanshi's destruction were almost always entirely related to John alone. No one else in the GLC really cared or even brought it up much. It was always just something for John alone to mope about, later it became something for Fatality to seek revenge over, and Martian Manhunter ceased to care about it after Cosmic Odyssey was over as well, and never brought it up again. There are a few GL's who can say they've exceeded the founders of the GLC, and those GL's have actually done things in those positions that changed the Corps forever, so I'm not exactly sure why John becoming the first mortal guardian makes a difference ---- it's not like he did anything worth mentioning in terms of the larger mythos of the Corps.

Fatality forgave John after trying to kill him for almost a decade, and regret doesn't change the fact that his behavior and his behavior alone drove the final nail in Xanshi's coffin, but I guess those who died on Xanshi will be comforted by the knowledge that John is really sorry about it.

I still fail to see why anyone would think John's sordid affair with Xanshi is in any way comparable to Tomar's and Kilowog's cases.

Superdork's point is failing to save=/=Destroy, no matter how cocky he was. It's not like he got angry and turned into a villain or something, only to have Johns retcon that. =P And no other GL has become a mortal guardian no matter how much you want to downplay that.

Writers need to move beyond the planet thing. It is pure laziness.

And to not see how much John has grown up since his cocky days says more about you than Superdork or John Stewart. Grudges don't make life fun, do they.

I'm well aware of what Superdork's point is; the fact remains that Xanshi died because of John's arrogance, its end can be linked directly to the mistakes he made. Plain and simple fact. Krypton didn't die because of Tomar Re's arrogance, it died because unforeseeable circumstances prevented Tomar from coming to Krypton's aid. Bolovax Vik didn't die because of Kilowog's arrogance, it died because forces far, far beyond Kilowog's control were at work. Neither of them were culpable agents in the death of those worlds. John, like it or not, was a culpable agent in Xanshi's demise, and even he doesn't deny that. Superdork claimed John's case was similar to the cases of Tomar and Kilowog; this assessment is incorrect, his point is wrong.

I don't have to downplay anything. I just have to point out the glaringly obvious: John becoming a Guardian made no major difference whatsoever to anyone other than John. It's insignificant to the Corps. When people talk about monumental moments in the history of the GLC, they bring up Hal becoming Parallax, or Kyle becoming the Torchbearer and later Ion. Things that actually made a difference to the Green Lanterns and continue to do so till this day. Literally no one brings up John becoming a Guardian as something that made a difference to the GLC......because it didn't.

I don't doubt John has grown up since his cocky days; placed in the same position as he was in Cosmic Odyssey, I'm sure his decision would be radically different and a lot more rational and considered. I'm merely pointing out that an incorrect statement is, in fact, incorrect. Pay attention.

I would prefer John grow from an accident while he goes off to try to be a hero than Hal killing the entire corps and accepting no responsibilty due to a retcon. John is a man who has been through ****. He's always been on the side of the heroes because he's always tried to be a hero. He went from being a socially conscious Tony Stark-type to being a mature Captain America-type. And that's VERY respect-worthy.

#30 Posted by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@outlawrenegade said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

1) Xanshi- John was over confidant and failed to save the planet because he rejected Martian Manhunter's planet. This is similar to how Tomar Re failed to save Krypton or Kilowog failed to save Bolovax Vik. Sometimes Lanterns fail. That's comics.

Go back and read each of these comics ------ Tomar failed to save Krypton because a solar flare blinded him and basically took him out of commission while the planet was being destroyed. Bolovax Vik was destroyed first by the Anti-Matter Wave, something Kilowog could not possibly stop in the first place, and the second time around it was destroyed by Sinestro in circumstances Kilowog again could not predict.

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

Not really equivalent to Tomar and Kilowog's cases.

At the end of the day, he did not destroy Xanshi. He failed to prevent its destruction. No matter how arrogant he was, he did not point his ring at the planet and make it go boom. Not only did he regret his actions, he atoned for them by saving countless lives and forging a cohesive community on the Mosaic world. He so thoroughly redeemed himself that the Guardian of their universe made him the first ever mortal guardian and called him the Master Builder. And that's what he is--a builder, not some rampaging destroyer. No other GL can say they've reached equal footing with the founders of the GLC. Furthermore, not only did J'onn forgive him, Fatality did too. Now they're hooking up and everything.

No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival. I'd be very surprised if the Guardians forgave him, not because it was an unforgivable crime or anything like that, but because I doubt they'd even care: the consequences of Xanshi's destruction were almost always entirely related to John alone. No one else in the GLC really cared or even brought it up much. It was always just something for John alone to mope about, later it became something for Fatality to seek revenge over, and Martian Manhunter ceased to care about it after Cosmic Odyssey was over as well, and never brought it up again. There are a few GL's who can say they've exceeded the founders of the GLC, and those GL's have actually done things in those positions that changed the Corps forever, so I'm not exactly sure why John becoming the first mortal guardian makes a difference ---- it's not like he did anything worth mentioning in terms of the larger mythos of the Corps.

Fatality forgave John after trying to kill him for almost a decade, and regret doesn't change the fact that his behavior and his behavior alone drove the final nail in Xanshi's coffin, but I guess those who died on Xanshi will be comforted by the knowledge that John is really sorry about it.

I still fail to see why anyone would think John's sordid affair with Xanshi is in any way comparable to Tomar's and Kilowog's cases.

Superdork's point is failing to save=/=Destroy, no matter how cocky he was. It's not like he got angry and turned into a villain or something, only to have Johns retcon that. =P And no other GL has become a mortal guardian no matter how much you want to downplay that.

Writers need to move beyond the planet thing. It is pure laziness.

And to not see how much John has grown up since his cocky days says more about you than Superdork or John Stewart. Grudges don't make life fun, do they.

I'm well aware of what Superdork's point is; the fact remains that Xanshi died because of John's arrogance, its end can be linked directly to the mistakes he made. Plain and simple fact. Krypton didn't die because of Tomar Re's arrogance, it died because unforeseeable circumstances prevented Tomar from coming to Krypton's aid. Bolovax Vik didn't die because of Kilowog's arrogance, it died because forces far, far beyond Kilowog's control were at work. Neither of them were culpable agents in the death of those worlds. John, like it or not, was a culpable agent in Xanshi's demise, and even he doesn't deny that. Superdork claimed John's case was similar to the cases of Tomar and Kilowog; this assessment is incorrect, his point is wrong.

I don't have to downplay anything. I just have to point out the glaringly obvious: John becoming a Guardian made no major difference whatsoever to anyone other than John. It's insignificant to the Corps. When people talk about monumental moments in the history of the GLC, they bring up Hal becoming Parallax, or Kyle becoming the Torchbearer and later Ion. Things that actually made a difference to the Green Lanterns and continue to do so till this day. Literally no one brings up John becoming a Guardian as something that made a difference to the GLC......because it didn't.

I don't doubt John has grown up since his cocky days; placed in the same position as he was in Cosmic Odyssey, I'm sure his decision would be radically different and a lot more rational and considered. I'm merely pointing out that an incorrect statement is, in fact, incorrect. Pay attention.

I would prefer John grow from an accident while he goes off to try to be a hero than Hal killing the entire corps and accepting no responsibilty due to a retcon. John is a man who has been through ****. He's always been on the side of the heroes because he's always tried to be a hero. He went from being a socially conscious Tony Stark-type to being a mature Captain America-type. And that's VERY respect-worthy.

This is all very nice, but it makes no difference whatsoever to the original statement: Xanshi died because of John Stewart. He was a culpable agent in its demise. Has he grown from then and become more mature and responsible and yada yada? Sure. Does it change the fact that Xanshi lost its one chance for survival because of his actions? No, not really.

Moderator
#31 Posted by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Fail. John tried to save Xanshi and you can't dance around that, chief. That's what a hero does. On the other hand, Hal murdered the entire corps and fought his friends on the JLA. If you can't see something heroic about John trying to save Xanshi despite his over confidence, then fail.

#32 Posted by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Fail. John tried to save Xanshi and you can't dance around that, chief. That's what a hero does. On the other hand, Hal murdered the entire corps and fought his friends on the JLA. If you can't see something heroic about John trying to save Xanshi despite his over confidence, then fail.

Yessiree, a hero is the kind of fellow who thinks he can handle everything by himself even though he doesn't know exactly what's around the corner, and to compensate for that lack of information, he sticks an extremely capable ally in a bubble and tells him to hang back and watch the real men do their job. This was a story where Starfire --- Starfire --- of all people managed to handle one of those bombs and save a planet from annihilation. You'd think the Martian Manhunter would be at least half as capable as Starfire, but I guess we'll never know, will we? Why is Xanshi dead? Because of John Stewart's arrogance, plain and simple. The fact that his overarching intentions were good is a little dismissable considering the decisions he took, decisions borne out of arrogance and overconfidence, led to Xanshi losing its last hope for survival. If you can't see that despite it being literally right there for anyone to see and John and other characters freely stating that was why Xanshi died, fail, chief. Chief? Fail. Chief.

Hal is irrelevant here. I can see why you'd want to deflect by claiming the worse things that Hal has done somehow lessen the severity of John's mistakes, but Hal was every bit the villain in Emerald Twilight, Zero Hour and every related story. And he remained one of the worst villains in the Corps' history until Rebirth, where his villainy was retconned into possession, clearing him of most of the responsibility. Ergo, Hal was never the villain of the story in the first place. John's arrogance dooming Xanshi was never retconned into a space bug screwing with his head. He is still a culpable agent in Xanshi's death. Cry about it being unfair all you want, but that's how it is. Deal with it.

Moderator
#33 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

@superdork said:

@citizenbane: Fail. John tried to save Xanshi and you can't dance around that, chief. That's what a hero does. On the other hand, Hal murdered the entire corps and fought his friends on the JLA. If you can't see something heroic about John trying to save Xanshi despite his over confidence, then fail.

1) Yessiree, a hero is the kind of fellow who thinks he can handle everything by himself even though he doesn't know exactly what's around the corner, and to compensate for that lack of information, he sticks an extremely capable ally in a bubble and tells him to hang back and watch the real men do their job. This was a story where Starfire --- Starfire --- of all people managed to handle one of those bombs and save a planet from annihilation. You'd think the Martian Manhunter would be at least half as capable as Starfire, but I guess we'll never know, will we? Why is Xanshi dead? Because of John Stewart's arrogance, plain and simple. The fact that his overarching intentions were good is a little dismissable considering the decisions he took, decisions borne out of arrogance and overconfidence, led to Xanshi losing its last hope for survival. If you can't see that despite it being literally right there for anyone to see and John and other characters freely stating that was why Xanshi died, fail, chief. Chief? Fail. Chief.

Hal is irrelevant here. I can see why you'd want to deflect by claiming the worse things that Hal has done somehow lessen the severity of John's mistakes, but Hal was every bit the villain in Emerald Twilight, Zero Hour and every related story. And he remained one of the worst villains in the Corps' history until Rebirth, 3)where his villainy was retconned into possession, clearing him of most of the responsibility. Ergo, Hal was never the villain of the story in the first place. John's arrogance dooming Xanshi was never retconned into a space bug screwing with his head. He is still a culpable agent in Xanshi's death. 4) Cry about it being unfair all you want, but that's how it is. Deal with it.

1) Have you seen Iron Man or read Hal Jordan stories. They are cocksure heroes themselves. So yes, John is a hero for trying to save Xanshi even if he went about it the wrong way.

2) Calm down, buddy. You're wrong.

3) Retcons don't take away the material I own. If they did, then you hating on John is pointless because Xanshi could be retconned anytime. The fact that you are so passionate about a story that was written more than 20 years ago, tells me that I can still care about Hal mass murdering innocents. Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wives, becaue Hal is out there killin' e'ry body out there.

4) Fail. I don't cry, dude. You're just going to have to live with Hal being a mass murderer because that's what DC intended for him to be. Retconning the story out of continuity doesn't mean it didn't happen or that people can't still buy that tale. And it can be brought back into continuity at anytime. Just let Grant Morrisson get a hold of the character. He'll do it, lol.

You see, in John's early days he was an over confidant hero. He was never a villain, unlike your homedawg Hal. He tried saving Xanshi, and had he succeeded we wouldn't be having this conversation. We praise cocky heroes like Tony Stark and Hal Jordan, but we can't let it go when John goes cocky once? Careful, you fanboyism is showing there, chief.

You can't say John has ever been anything less than a hero who tried to save Xanshi. He failed, yes. But he's a hero through and through. He put his life on the line. Get over it. That's never going to change. If you don't like it, then cry to mommy. Don't do it on John's respect thread, little guy. Okay?

#34 Edited by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

Point me in the direction of Iron Man's habit of being a cocksure douche leading to entire civilizations going extinct, please. Hal's cockiness never doomed a planet either. He didn't turn evil because he was cocky. He turned evil because he felt betrayed by the Corps and the Guardians and refused to accept their claim that what happened to Coast City couldn't or shouldn't be undone. He was still the villain, sure, but his cockiness never had anything to do with it. And Iron Man is vilified all the time for the stuff he did during Civil War, and rightly so -----plenty of people maintain that Stark was the villain of that story and the events that followed (Goliath's death, Captain America's death, Norman Osborn taking over SHIELD) were all his fault. Thor even beat Tony's ass up and down as punishment for what he did. Open a comic book sometime. Mentioning other cocky heroes and their acceptance among reading audiences is not going to somehow change the fact that John's cockiness doomed Xanshi. I am used to people deflecting in order to draw attention away from poor arguments......just not to it being done so badly.

2) Calm down, buddy. You're wrong.

Curiosity: what statement led you to believe I was being something other than calm? No part of this is particularly emotionally evocative for me. Clearly it is for you, but it takes all kinds to make a world.

Additionally, I am not wrong.

3) Retcons don't take away the material I own.

I am not sure you understand what a retcon is, chief. Hold my hand while I walk you through the concept. A retcon is a change in the status quo of the universe's internal workings. From DC's perspective, Hal Jordan was never to blame for anything that happened during Emerald Twilight. That is the status quo they have generated, and that is what they will continue to work with. Your material is nice and all, but it doesn't make any difference whatsoever and it's simply not relevant anymore. From DC's perspective, John Stewart was to blame for Xanshi's demise, and that's a status quo that has persisted to this day. A fact is a fact is a fact is a fact. You can embrace whatever reality you prefer......there's only one that's legitimate, though.

If I could compile a list of the Top 10 most hilariously inane replies I have received on CV......this would probably not make the list seeing as I have seen some unbelievably dumb stuff, but it would be in the running.

If they did, then you hating on John

I am not even slightly surprised that stating simple facts that have been illustrated consistently for 2 decades now suggests I am "hating".

is pointless because Xanshi could be retconned anytime.

Sure, and when it does, talk to me. Until then, John Stewart's arrogance doomed Xanshi. Once again, statement of fact. The minute it gets retconned, that fact will have changed. This is not a terribly hard concept to wrap one's head around.

The fact that you are so passionate about a story that was written more than 20 years ago, tells me that I can still care about Hal mass murdering innocents.

I do not particularly care about Cosmic Odyssey. I saw a statement that was, by anyone's definition, plainly false, and I pointed out why it was false. You can care about Hal mass-murdering GL's if you want. DC doesn't.

Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wives, becaue Hal is out there killin' e'ry body out there.

Ain't nobody got time for outdated memes.

4) Fail. I don't cry, dude. You're just going to have to live with Hal being a mass murderer because that's what DC intended for him to be.

You do take comments rather literally, dude. I don't have to live with anything because the amount of regard I have for Hal Jordan is virtually non-existent contrasted against how much regard you seem to think I have for him. Hal could be a cannibalistic pedophile who killed Santa Claus for all I care. The minute someone retcons that, he's not. Plain and simple. You're just going to have to live with certain truths being inflexible. Hal being a mass murderer was what DC intended for him back in 1994. It is not what DC intended now in 2013. Certain truths. Inflexible.

Retconning the story out of continuity doesn't mean it didn't happen or that people can't still buy that tale.

That is.....almost exactly what it means. Retconning the story means it didn't happen the way it was originally portrayed. How do you not know this? People can buy the tale, doesn't change the fact that certain details about it have since been rendered irrelevant. I am unsure as to why you keep pointing towards people's ability to own retconned material as indicative of the allegedly invalid nature of said retcons.

He was never a villain, unlike your homedawg Hal.

Really, man?

He tried saving Xanshi, and had he succeeded we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Here's the simple truth that's so painful for you to hear: John tried saving Xanshi, and he failed because he was arrogant and overconfident, and that arrogance and overconfidence ultimately doomed Xanshi. End of story. I have never once denied that John tried to save Xanshi. I have even acknowledged it. You have denied that Xanshi's death is directly linkable to John Stewart's arrogance despite John and other characters flat out stating so. Obviously if he'd succeeded we wouldn't be having this conversation. But he didn't, and we are.

We praise cocky heroes like Tony Stark and Hal Jordan, but we can't let it go when John goes cocky once?

Read above....

Careful, you fanboyism is showing there, chief.

Feel free to point out where exactly I have ever praised Hal Jordan. I do not even like Hal Jordan. In your haste to make up for a half-baked mess of an argument, you have started bestowing attributes upon me that don't exist and then criticizing me for having attributes that weren't around until you invented them. I have done nothing other than state the truth from the beginning, for all characters here, Hal included. I do not care that you find the truth unpalatable and would prefer an alternate account.

Strawman arguments are cute, but inept at the best of times and childish at worst.

You can't say John has ever been anything less than a hero who tried to save Xanshi. He failed, yes. But he's a hero through and through. He put his life on the line. Get over it. That's never going to change.

I swear, I just keep repeating myself on stuff like this....

All that aside, I love that stating simple, undeniable facts gets you guys so angsty all of a sudden. The replies thus far have been nothing less than priceless. I do not care even the slightest bit for Hal Jordan, and I never have. Kyle Rayner for president and all that jazz. The truth isn't pleasant, and a lot of people aren't mature enough to accept the truth instead of whining like children about it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the truth. The fact that this is John's respect thread doesn't suddenly warp the truth into whatever fanciful version you would prefer to live with.

If you don't like it, then cry to mommy. Don't do it on John's respect thread, little guy. Okay?

Come on! If you're going to try and belittle someone to make up for the fact that your argument falls short, at least do it properly. This is disgraceful.

Moderator
#35 Edited by Superdork (917 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane said:

Point me in the direction of Iron Man's habit of being a cocksure douche leading to entire civilizations going extinct, please. Hal's cockiness never doomed a planet either. He didn't turn evil because he was cocky. He turned evil because he felt betrayed by the Corps and the Guardians and refused to accept their claim that what happened to Coast City couldn't or shouldn't be undone. He was still the villain, sure, but his cockiness never had anything to do with it. And Iron Man is vilified all the time for the stuff he did during Civil War, and rightly so -----plenty of people maintain that Stark was the villain of that story and the events that followed (Goliath's death, Captain America's death, Norman Osborn taking over SHIELD) were all his fault. Thor even beat Tony's ass up and down as punishment for what he did. Open a comic book sometime. Mentioning other cocky heroes and their acceptance among reading audiences is not going to somehow change the fact that John's cockiness doomed Xanshi. I am used to people deflecting in order to draw attention away from poor arguments......just not to it being done so badly.

2) Calm down, buddy. You're wrong.

Curiosity: what statement led you to believe I was being something other than calm? No part of this is particularly emotionally evocative for me. Clearly it is for you, but it takes all kinds to make a world.

Additionally, I am not wrong.

3) Retcons don't take away the material I own.

I am not sure you understand what a retcon is, chief. Hold my hand while I walk you through the concept. A retcon is a change in the status quo of the universe's internal workings. From DC's perspective, Hal Jordan was never to blame for anything that happened during Emerald Twilight. That is the status quo they have generated, and that is what they will continue to work with. Your material is nice and all, but it doesn't make any difference whatsoever and it's simply not relevant anymore. From DC's perspective, John Stewart was to blame for Xanshi's demise, and that's a status quo that has persisted to this day. A fact is a fact is a fact is a fact. You can embrace whatever reality you prefer......there's only one that's legitimate, though.

If I could compile a list of the Top 10 most hilariously inane replies I have received on CV......this would probably not make the list seeing as I have seen some unbelievably dumb stuff, but it would be in the running.

If they did, then you hating on John

I am not even slightly surprised that stating simple facts that have been illustrated consistently for 2 decades now suggests I am "hating".

is pointless because Xanshi could be retconned anytime.

Sure, and when it does, talk to me. Until then, John Stewart's arrogance doomed Xanshi. Once again, statement of fact. The minute it gets retconned, that fact will have changed. This is not a terribly hard concept to wrap one's head around.

The fact that you are so passionate about a story that was written more than 20 years ago, tells me that I can still care about Hal mass murdering innocents.

I do not particularly care about Cosmic Odyssey. I saw a statement that was, by anyone's definition, plainly false, and I pointed out why it was false. You can care about Hal mass-murdering GL's if you want. DC doesn't.

Hide yo' kids, hide yo' wives, becaue Hal is out there killin' e'ry body out there.

Ain't nobody got time for outdated memes.

4) Fail. I don't cry, dude. You're just going to have to live with Hal being a mass murderer because that's what DC intended for him to be.

You do take comments rather literally, dude. I don't have to live with anything because the amount of regard I have for Hal Jordan is virtually non-existent contrasted against how much regard you seem to think I have for him. Hal could be a cannibalistic pedophile who killed Santa Claus for all I care. The minute someone retcons that, he's not. Plain and simple. You're just going to have to live with certain truths being inflexible. Hal being a mass murderer was what DC intended for him back in 1994. It is not what DC intended now in 2013. Certain truths. Inflexible.

Retconning the story out of continuity doesn't mean it didn't happen or that people can't still buy that tale.

That is.....almost exactly what it means. Retconning the story means it didn't happen the way it was originally portrayed. How do you not know this? People can buy the tale, doesn't change the fact that certain details about it have since been rendered irrelevant. I am unsure as to why you keep pointing towards people's ability to own retconned material as indicative of the allegedly invalid nature of said retcons.

He was never a villain, unlike your homedawg Hal.

Really, man?

He tried saving Xanshi, and had he succeeded we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Here's the simple truth that's so painful for you to hear: John tried saving Xanshi, and he failed because he was arrogant and overconfident, and that arrogance and overconfidence ultimately doomed Xanshi. End of story. I have never once denied that John tried to save Xanshi. I have even acknowledged it. You have denied that Xanshi's death is directly linkable to John Stewart's arrogance despite John and other characters flat out stating so. Obviously if he'd succeeded we wouldn't be having this conversation. But he didn't, and we are.

We praise cocky heroes like Tony Stark and Hal Jordan, but we can't let it go when John goes cocky once?

Read above....

Careful, you fanboyism is showing there, chief.

Feel free to point out where exactly I have ever praised Hal Jordan. I do not even like Hal Jordan. In your haste to make up for a half-baked mess of an argument, you have started bestowing attributes upon me that don't exist and then criticizing me for having attributes that weren't around until you invented them. I have done nothing other than state the truth from the beginning, for all characters here, Hal included. I do not care that you find the truth unpalatable and would prefer an alternate account.

Strawman arguments are cute, but inept at the best of times and childish at worst.

You can't say John has ever been anything less than a hero who tried to save Xanshi. He failed, yes. But he's a hero through and through. He put his life on the line. Get over it. That's never going to change.

I swear, I just keep repeating myself on stuff like this....

All that aside, I love that stating simple, undeniable facts gets you guys so angsty all of a sudden. The replies thus far have been nothing less than priceless. I do not care even the slightest bit for Hal Jordan, and I never have. Kyle Rayner for president and all that jazz. The truth isn't pleasant, and a lot of people aren't mature enough to accept the truth instead of whining like children about it, but it doesn't change the fact that it's the truth. The fact that this is John's respect thread doesn't suddenly warp the truth into whatever fanciful version you would prefer to live with.

If you don't like it, then cry to mommy. Don't do it on John's respect thread, little guy. Okay?

Come on! If you're going to try and belittle someone to make up for the fact that your argument falls short, at least do it properly. This is disgraceful.

Man, you still haven't and cannot show that John deliberately tried to destroy Xanshi. He never did. He tried to save it meaning he's a hero. There is no way you can dance around it with your showmanship, hon. If you can't get over it, then just leave the forum. You haven't contributed anything to it other than pointlessness. Just take your ball and go home. You've already ruined the respect thread like a dick. If you want to hate, then start a hate thread. This thread is about celebrating John. But like every thing else, you have no clue.

#36 Posted by Saren (25274 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, you still haven't and cannot show that John deliberately tried to destroy Xanshi. He never did.

It was never what I was showing in the first place, nor did I ever claim that was the case. Matter of fact, I even made a statement to the contrary. To you. Kindly learn how to read. It will save us a good deal of time.

"No one ever claimed he destroyed Xanshi himself. But its destruction is directly linked to his arrogance and cockiness, and it was that kind of attitude that doomed any chance for Xanshi's survival."

He tried to save it meaning he's a hero. There is no way you can dance around it with your showmanship, hon.

Swear I grow wary of repeating myself for a generation that's wary of simple reading, but here goes:

John's failure to save Xanshi came down to sheer arrogance on his part. He believed he could handle anything on his own because he had a power ring, and he didn't just reject Martian Manhunter's help ---- he trapped J'onn in a bubble and told him to wait while the grown-ups went to work. Right after Xanshi is destroyed, MMH tells him "Thanks to your arrogance and stupidity, I have now seen two worlds die."

I'm well aware of what Superdork's point is; the fact remains that Xanshi died because of John's arrogance, its end can be linked directly to the mistakes he made. Plain and simple fact.

Why is Xanshi dead? Because of John Stewart's arrogance, plain and simple. The fact that his overarching intentions were good is a little dismissable considering the decisions he took, decisions borne out of arrogance and overconfidence, led to Xanshi losing its last hope for survival. If you can't see that despite it being literally right there for anyone to see and John and other characters freely stating that was why Xanshi died, fail, chief. Chief? Fail. Chief.

He tried to save the planet and wound up dooming it as a result of his arrogance. That is simple fact. Deal with it, chief bro dude hon homedawg.

The fun part about going into detail on threads is that when folks inevitably fail to read what you've written and continue asking questions you've already answered, you can simply quote yourself and save some time.

If you can't get over it, then just leave the forum.

Not really much for me to get over. I'm comfortable being right and knowing my statement is the truth. From your response, I'd infer that getting over the truth does not appear to be your forte, however.

You haven't contributed anything to it other than pointlessness. Just take your ball and go home.

We live in interesting times when the truth is considered a pointless contribution. Here's John and a few other Lanterns tanking an exploding planet.

I've inserted my coins, can I continue playing?

ou've already ruined the respect thread like a dick. If you want to hate, then start a hate thread.

Stating the truth about John Stewart ruins the John Stewart respect thread? Complex character.

This thread is about celebrating John. But like every thing else, you have no clue.

Improbable assessment.

Moderator
#37 Edited by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know why people come on here to fight. John Stewart is the greatest Green Lantern ever. His work on the Mosaic world could patch up these silly feuds though, lol.

John Stewart, The Master Builder

#38 Posted by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio
Here's a cool redesign of Mr. Stewart.

#39 Edited by dccomicsrule2011 (23188 posts) - - Show Bio

lol @ this thread.

#40 Posted by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

#41 Posted by dondave (34374 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain13: Wouldn't it be better to post feats of him?

#42 Posted by SHARKBEARAGATOR (1667 posts) - - Show Bio

@captain13: Why are you just posting pictures and fan art of John....

#43 Edited by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

#44 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@velle37 said:

John Stewart takes on Black Lantern Xanshi

John, thinking tactically, unleashes all of the power in Driq's Lantern with an expert sniper shot

Even fighting solo on a planet-wide zombie apocalypse, John shows nothing but will, no fear whatsoever

After surviving the assault of millions from his greatest past failure, along with the emotional provocation of his greatest past love, John sees through the undead army's ruse as a plot to distract him, and calls for backup

im assuming these are from blackest night??

#45 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@velle37 said:

John one-shots Killer Frost

John sweeps the hospital with an X-Ray-like scan, looking for the lost JLA members, while chiding Black Lightning about his change in hairstyles

John's old costume that he wore at the beginning of the Mosaic series

John explains how his mind breaks down structures, from sports, to politics, to family, to architecture, to philosophy, and most interestingly, music

Very cool insight into his thoughts

John Stewart is chosen to become an Alpha-Lantern, said by the Guardians to be the "highest honor one can achieve within the Green Lantern Corps" (an offer John wisely refuses because of the vagueness of the Guardians)

Hand of God Ion/Kyle Rayner, recounts John Stewart's origin as a Green Lantern, watching him stand up to a racist cop on a street corner in Detroit

After Parallax destroyed the Green Lantern Corps, John Stewart became the leader of the Darkstars

John blasts Parallax with some of the energy Hal used to heal him with in Emerald Night (he later finds out that this power only works when someone else is in danger, but not when he is in danger, in this case it was Guy Gardner)

During the Justice Story arc, Hal gives his ring to the only other person he trusts with it

John Stewart

John eradicates Braniac's nanotech probes from the atmosphere, puts out all of the fires in the city, wipes the knowledge of the JLA's identities and their friends from the minds of their enemies, and frees everyone from Braniac's control

John, back on the job (after Kyle lost faith in humanity and left for space), making cool, complicated structures to stop a human trafficking ordeal (John noted the irony of this situation happeneing right after Kyle's decision)

John is known as the best flyer of the Earth Lanterns

Both Hannu and Kyle react in amazement, as John repairs Alpha Lantern Boodikka's circuitry

John asserts his authority to Icon

if you don't mind could you tell me where you got that scan about human trafficking???? please youd b doing me a huge favor

#46 Posted by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

#47 Posted by Captain13 (3260 posts) - - Show Bio

#48 Posted by velle37 (6041 posts) - - Show Bio
#49 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

#50 Posted by OutlawRenegade (1251 posts) - - Show Bio

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