jean grey. phoenix or no?

#1 Posted by phoenixphreek (30 posts) - - Show Bio

do you think jean grey is better with or with out the phoenix? when she returns should she have it or not?

#2 Posted by Erik (32817 posts) - - Show Bio

Probably should be in the Jean Grey forum. She should have it, but she shouldn't be on Earth. She is too big for it now.

#3 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

She should be without it...it should have left her whenever rachel came into the same uni as her

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#4 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
Phoenix of the Black Throne said:
"

pixelized said:

"She should be without it...it should have left her whenever rachel came into the same uni as her"

why would it leave her for Rachel? 

"
Because i was asked my opinion on the matter
Moderator
#5 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree...if Jean comes back as Phoenix she should be placed outside the realm of the X-Men or Earth because her powers are too much for a small planet to contain...she can only come in certain story arcs.

It is a nice concept though that Rachel be given the Phoenix Force as she is a more likely character that can be put out of the picture and bring back Jean as Jean Grey but what will make Jean interesting now if she is just Jean?

#6 Posted by phoenixphreek (30 posts) - - Show Bio

i want jean as a cosmic hero, with the phoenix

#7 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio
IcePrince_X said:
"It is a nice concept though that Rachel be given the Phoenix Force as she is a more likely character that can be put out of the picture and bring back Jean as Jean Grey but what will make Jean interesting now if she is just Jean?"
No Scott, No Phoenix...She's just an empty shell now...maybe she should take up gardening.
Moderator
#8 Posted by IcePrince_X (4865 posts) - - Show Bio
pixelized said:
"IcePrince_X said:
"It is a nice concept though that Rachel be given the Phoenix Force as she is a more likely character that can be put out of the picture and bring back Jean as Jean Grey but what will make Jean interesting now if she is just Jean?"
No Scott, No Phoenix...She's just an empty shell now...maybe she should take up gardening."
She can resume being the Black Queen and seduces Professor X?
#9 Posted by LexiCat (5284 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey has been associated with the Phoenix Force for so long that you cannot simply separate them.  For me,  they are the same entity.  Jean has not always been the "perfect" host, but being Omega Level classification with her telekinesis, as well as the strong telepathy she possesses,  it makes her the best fit.  We have seen Jean capable of true greatness while being Phoenix and we've also seen her capable of darkness and acts of pure evil. 

I believe that's what allows her to be the only true host.  I agree that Rachel never really was a good fit.  And as aforementioned,  the Force did abandon her in favor of her mother.  This clearly indicates the Force itself prefers Jean as its host over anyone else.  Emma Frost,  as strong a telepath as she is,  was unable to even come close to harnessing the power.  I think Jean's compassion, determination, and her acceptance of her higher purpose is why she will always BE Phoenix. 

To separate her now,  from what something that's now grown to Iconic status,  could prove fundamentally devastating to Jean.  However,  I do offer up a devil's advocate on this.  I liked Jean before she became Phoenix.  She was always one of my favorites,  and I respected her because of who she was and the way she connected with her teammates and others.  I don't believe she would be a "useless" character even if they resurrected her and stripped her of Phoenix.  Perhaps for once,  Jean could return to the normal life (as normal as can be, considering!) she always wanted to have.   I want her to move on,  to grow,  and to DO what she tearfully asked Scott to do.   Live.  Simply Live.

#10 Posted by Roguegirl (169 posts) - - Show Bio

phoenix,of course

#11 Posted by GreyGoose (5044 posts) - - Show Bio

It really doesnt matter to me, I like her with the phoenix or without it...she is uber awesome lol

#12 Posted by Andferne (38808 posts) - - Show Bio
LexiCat said:
"Jean Grey has been associated with the Phoenix Force for so long that you cannot simply separate them.  For me,  they are the same entity.  Jean has not always been the "perfect" host, but being Omega Level classification with her telekinesis, as well as the strong telepathy she possesses,  it makes her the best fit.  We have seen Jean capable of true greatness while being Phoenix and we've also seen her capable of darkness and acts of pure evil. 

I believe that's what allows her to be the only true host.  I agree that Rachel never really was a good fit.  And as aforementioned,  the Force did abandon her in favor of her mother.  This clearly indicates the Force itself prefers Jean as its host over anyone else.  Emma Frost,  as strong a telepath as she is,  was unable to even come close to harnessing the power.  I think Jean's compassion, determination, and her acceptance of her higher purpose is why she will always BE Phoenix. 

To separate her now,  from what something that's now grown to Iconic status,  could prove fundamentally devastating to Jean.  However,  I do offer up a devil's advocate on this.  I liked Jean before she became Phoenix.  She was always one of my favorites,  and I respected her because of who she was and the way she connected with her teammates and others.  I don't believe she would be a "useless" character even if they resurrected her and stripped her of Phoenix.  Perhaps for once,  Jean could return to the normal life (as normal as can be, considering!) she always wanted to have.   I want her to move on,  to grow,  and to DO what she tearfully asked Scott to do.   Live.  Simply Live."
Could not of said it any better than that.
#13 Posted by fesak (7054 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer Rachel.

Moderator
#14 Posted by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

why do people say  jean grey is too big for  x-men now. can one explain this to me.

#15 Posted by pixelized (62882 posts) - - Show Bio

i think it's her power with the phoenix that makes her too much to be on a team.

Moderator
#16 Edited by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

i don't agree with that, jean always been powerful and she always find a way to control it somehow and the x-men writers shouldn't leave jean power as a last result  

#17 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio
time said:
"i don't agree with that, jean always been powerful and she always find a way to control it somehow and the x-men writers shouldn't leave jean power as a last result  "
When she was in Morrison's X-Men she was way too powerful: it was ridiculous having a character with that magnitude of power.
#18 Posted by Abnormally Warm Guy (1297 posts) - - Show Bio

Hiow about she just doesn't come back? That sounds like a good idea to me.

#19 Edited by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

i think magneto has got to big x-men now and look what they done to his character, he only appears in crossovers or stories retouched like house of m,  which i think ruined his character

I think charles has got to big for x-men now, he not really associated with the team anymore, only with wolverine and now juggernaut and yet they still producing comics with him in. X-Men legacy was much of great story but it was about charles.

wolverine is to big for x-men cause, he so many comics and crossovers, sames goes for cylops.

Jean will always associated with phoenix, that does'nt mean she too big for the x-men, look at 90's when she was member of the gold team she was great back then.   

#20 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio
time said:
"

i think magneto has got to big x-men now and look what they done to his character, he only appears in crossovers or stories retouched like house of m,  which i think ruined his character

I think charles has got to big for x-men now, he not really associated with the team anymore, only with wolverine and now juggernaut and yet they still producing comics with him in. X-Men legacy was much of great story but it was about charles.

wolverine is to big for x-men cause, he so many comics and crossovers, sames goes for cylops.

Jean will always associated with phoenix, that does'nt mean she too big for the x-men, look at 90's when she was member of the gold team she was great back then.   

"
Magneto's appearance in eXtremists wasn't a crossover: his appearance in Uncanny #500 wasn't during a crossover. His appearance in Legacy wasn't during a crossover.
At the momment he's got his own mini series, Magneto Testament, which is bloody great.

Charles is not to big for the X-Men. Want to know why? It's because he's not a ridiculously overpowered cosmic deity.
He's their founder. He spent the majority of 2007 in space with a team. He helped Cable last year during Messiah Complex.
Scott, Gambit, Emma, Wolverine, Daken, Juggernaught, Magneto, Vought, Omega Sentinel, Exodus, Miss Sinister, Shaw, (soon to be Rogue) and many more have beein featured in Legacy.

Wolverine only regularly features in Wolverine, Wolverine Origins, X-titles, and New Avengers........ most of his featurettes are in X-related titles.
Cyclops only appears regularly in X-comics.


The very fact that jean is associated with an omnipotent cosmic force measn that she is too big for the x-men.
#21 Posted by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio

charles is too big for x-men, he one of the most powerful mutants in marvel and yet he still being included in comics 

magneto has not effecteds x-men lives in long time and he's the one that kill jean in planet. x and yet he still in comics
 
being to big for the x-men doesn't just mean there powers but there personality aswell and what they have done.

#22 Posted by John Valentine (16310 posts) - - Show Bio
time said:
"charles is too big for x-men, he one of the most powerful mutants in marvel and yet he still being included in comics 

magneto has not effecteds x-men lives in long time and he's the one that kill jean in planet. x and yet he still in comics
 
being to big for the x-men doesn't just mean there powers but there personality aswell and what they have done."

Thanks for ignoring all of my valid points.
Half of what you write doesn't make sense.

Charles founded the X-Men: thus, he will always, in one way or another, be part fo the X-Men.
At present, Charles is being included in X-comics because he's still remotely interesting: accept it.
He's not amazingly powerful, he's not even THE top psychic in Marvel: he's not even an Omega level mutant and there are in excess of seven at the momment.

Magneto didn't kill Jean, Xorn did. He's still in comics because he's an interesting character: the original X-Villain.
Interesting that you should say that he hasn't effect the X-Men in a long time, and then you mistakingly say that he killed a founding member of the X-Men.
He was the ruler of Genosha. He is the father of SW: indirectly he has changed the whole Marvel landscape.
Besides, a character doesn't need to be constantly in the spot light for them to be important.
#23 Posted by Kain (197 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean isn't too big for the X-men but she should stay the hell away from them. If she comes back she'll ruin all of Cyclops' development and just die again at some point anyway When she comes back I'm all for her becoming a cosmic character but at the end of the day no matter how powerful she becomes she'll always be seen as an X-man. You don't out grow your family.

#24 Posted by WillX (44 posts) - - Show Bio

I think she should come back without the Phoenix power.  The phoenix is outshining her character.  She should be a regular mutant with powers equal to that as she had before the phoenix ever met her. 
 
And the Phoenix should become a comic being in space leaving earth behind, a fiery female form.  The Phoenix force cna build its own body to travel in space.   

#25 Posted by time (5029 posts) - - Show Bio
@Kain said:

"Jean isn't too big for the X-men but she should stay the hell away from them. If she comes back she'll ruin all of Cyclops' development and just die again at some point anyway When she comes back I'm all for her becoming a cosmic character but at the end of the day no matter how powerful she becomes she'll always be seen as an X-man. You don't out grow your family."


How is she going to ruined all of cylops developments? When I look at the x-men i look at characters developments & potential, I also look at how popular they are, characters like wolverine, cyclops, storm & even charles in the x-men world, these characters will always be written for, they will always be there. Others characters like emma, beast, archangel, colossus. pixie don't have that, so you have to look at there potential, part reason why people don't want jean to return, or think she is too big for the x-men, is cause of emma & scott relationship, there is a lot potential there, but it is getting boring espiacally in uncanny x-men, that's why it's not a good title.  
  
After dark phenonix saga, in the 90's, the pheonix force didn't play a important or active role for jean grey for a long time and no reason why that can't be again, it's usually down to writers that's want to get rid of her again. When I think of jean grey she mother of x-men without any doubt, x-men first lady and she has a lot more potential then most eg beast, colossus, pixie & even storm, storm is boring now.  What makes jean grey a good x-men, is  her passion, she has great telekinesis & telepathy ability.  She actually a good role model for new recruits, cause she nearly done everything. She has good relationships with most of the important x-men cyclops, wolverine, charles, her best friend is storm. So there a lot more potential & development there. X-men can focus briefly on the white crown and rest on her when she comes back.
#26 Posted by Foreverbbyily (225 posts) - - Show Bio
@time:
she shouldnt come back because firstly scott is doing much better without jean nagging him about everything he does he is happy now that he is with emma...if she does come back she shouldnt be back on the x-men she major powerful and then the x-men wont have a reason to fight anymore because jean will destroy whoever in 3 mins top so it would be best if jean stays dead or just doesnt come back to the x-men :)
#27 Posted by cracks (6781 posts) - - Show Bio

Jean Grey is White Phoenix of the Crown. There is no separation.  It is a part of her own mutant evolution. 

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