Jean Grey heading for yet another retcon?

#1 Edited by jcbart (341 posts) - - Show Bio

We're all aware that the Phoenix Force will be returning in Avengers vs. X-Men to seep its cosmic claws into a certain Mutant Messiah. However, the solicit for the upcoming event has coloured me confused and wary of yet another example of disregard for continuity.

It was established at the end of Phoenix: Endsong that Jean has been in The White Hot Room collecting fragments of the Phoenix Force to make her and it whole again (since they are now canonically one). We have seen this when the Cuckoos' Phoenix fragments were sapped from their bodies, as it happened with Rachel Grey and Korvus' Phoenix Blade.

This has been building up for years, and Jean herself has appeared to Emma in prophetic visions. So my question is, where is she? It has been revealed today that the Secret Avengers will go into space to fight the Phoenix Force itself head on, but how is it alone? What happened in The White Hot Room to separate the two and for the PF to return to Earth? Or is Jean still the White Crown Phoenix and it is her they'll be facing, and if she is, what need does the Phoenix need Hope Summers for?

I guess what my main concern is, will Jean Grey's recent history be eradicated in order to make way for a big whoopla with the Phoenix and Hope, or should we have more faith in the writers at Marvel to acknowledge stories setting these rules before them?

All will be revealed in the coming months, but of course what's an X-Men event without speculation?

#2 Posted by sora_thekey (8180 posts) - - Show Bio

@jcbart said:

We're all aware that the Phoenix Force will be returning in Avengers vs. X-Men to seep its cosmic claws into a certain Mutant Messiah. However, the solicit for the upcoming event has coloured me confused and wary of yet another example of disregard for continuity.

It was established at the end of Phoenix: Endsong that Jean has been in The White Hot Room collecting fragments of the Phoenix Force to make her and it whole again (since they are now canonically one). We have seen this when the Cuckoos' Phoenix fragments were sapped from their bodies, as it happened with Rachel Grey and Korvus' Phoenix Blade.

Yes! Thank you! SHE IS NOT DEAD PEOPLE! (At least someone knows this!)

This has been building up for years, and Jean herself has appeared to Emma in prophetic visions. So my question is, where is she? It has been revealed today that the Secret Avengers will go into space to fight the Phoenix Force itself head on, but how is it alone? What happened in The White Hot Room to separate the two and for the PF to return to Earth? Or is Jean still the White Crown Phoenix and it is her they'll be facing, and if she is, what need does the Phoenix need Hope Summers for?
I guess what my main concern is, will Jean Grey's recent history be eradicated in order to make way for a big whoopla with the Phoenix and Hope, or should we have more faith in the writers at Marvel to acknowledge stories setting these rules before them?

My guess is that something happened in the White Hot Room which forced the Phoenix to leave Jean Grey. In return, the Phoenix needed a new host and Hope Summers is the closest thing to Jean the entity finds. (It could also go to Rachel but then it would not be as epic). As to what happens in the White Hot Room... I am going to have faith in the writers at Marvel that this little mystery will be resolved. Of course, it is a mystery so I'm sure that it won't be revealed right away during AVX or afterwards for that matter.

#3 Posted by daredevil21134 (12154 posts) - - Show Bio

COME BACK JEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

#4 Edited by LadyHarley (50 posts) - - Show Bio

Man, the Avengers are going to cop it. I, personally, think the Avengers will be annihilated if they don't contain somehow. No one is powerful enough to control or destroy the Phoenix out of the Avengers. This is the thing that killed 6 billion lives on a whim. I think Marvel must have some master plan though.

With Jean? I think she's returning. As Jean said is Endsong, that she is Phoenix and the Phoenix is her, I'd say Jean might return in some shape of form.

I sort of get the concept of the White Hot Room mostly, but then again I have no idea how it works, so maybe Phoenix destroyed it somehow and now she's unleashed.

This is very terrible theory but one I am sticking to. My theory about Hope is that it has been established that she has a human mother (whom she inherited her red hair from, so she is not a Grey), but no father has been mentioned. My guess is that the Phoenix made Hope's mother pregnant, connected her to theme of a messiah, hence an immaculate conception, to create a host powerful enough to contain it on Earth. Phoenix did this because she was now too Godlike since her and Jean merged, and now wants to have the "human experience" once more. Long shot, but just a theory.

#5 Posted by PrinceIMC (5422 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe these are pieces of the Phoenix Force that Jean is collecting but hasn't gotten around to yet.

#6 Posted by kicxka5s (9 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe Jean/The Phoenix is responsible for creating Hope in order to save the mutant race. Ya know the whole death and rebirth thing?

I think Jean Grey is coming back soooooooon, maybe a few months after the AvX....because Marvel is going to follow it up with more storylines.

#7 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

No, you should not have faith in the writers at Marvel to do anything well.

#8 Edited by CATPANEXE (9368 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think so, and mainly because Jason Aaron is putting his input and control into this, and he just made light of her history and had here show up as well in his Wolverine Goes To Hell arc.

* White Phoenix/Jean accompanies the soul of 616 Nightcrawler in Wolverine #8 respectively, contacting Wolverine and telling him to let her go in the same manner she did Scott. Nightcrawler tells Wolverine Heaven has the best beer, Scott overhears Wolverine call out Jeans name and drills him a bit about, but Wolverine refuses to tell him what happened.

#9 Posted by AgeofHurricane (7301 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

No, you should not have faith in the writers at Marvel to do anything well.

#10 Posted by Ivyphoenix17 (17 posts) - - Show Bio

First of all, I would like to say that I like your "immaculate concepcion" idea. Second, I think that Jean Grey is already back as Hope Summers, my theory is that maybe, because of the chaos that is going on between the humanity and the mutants with the addition of the House of M, maybe, the Phoenix decided to reincarnate Jean immediately so she can do something about this event and if ever, prevent the upcoming dark events for the mutants as a messiah. I read somewhere in the internet ( I forgot what site it is) that Phoenix let Jean Grey die in the hands of Xorn/Magneto in order to be reincarnated again in the future whenever the world needs the help of Phoenix. Maybe, the phoenix did was to seperate itself from Jean for a mean time and let Jean reincarnated as a human again which is Hope Summers.With the tension that is going on with the X-Men, maybe, the Phoenix decided to appear again and merge to Hope in order to be Jean again to prevent the tension between the X-Men.

Well, this is just my speculation....

#11 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel just can't let anyone stay dead (except for Uncle Ben).

Jean coming back for anything more than a brief period of time will make Marvel all the weaker in their storytelling.

#12 Posted by Billy Batson (58209 posts) - - Show Bio

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Marvel just can't let anyone stay dead (except for Uncle Ben).

Jean coming back for anything more than a brief period of time will make Marvel all the weaker in their storytelling.

bah, Uncle Ben appeared in Spider-Island :p
BB

#13 Edited by ApatheticAvenger (1636 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Marvel just can't let anyone stay dead (except for Uncle Ben).

Jean coming back for anything more than a brief period of time will make Marvel all the weaker in their storytelling.

bah, Uncle Ben appeared in Spider-Island :p
BB

lol, but he isn't back from the dead :P

I quite simply want Jean to stay dead.

#14 Posted by A-Strondinaire (370 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start off by saying to those who want Jean to stay dead really I mean seriously what actual reason can you come up with for Jean to stay dead other than continuity reasons or some lame marvel treats death like a revolving door comic snob response. I know I keep bringing it up but there are Jean Grey fans around here (you're posting on there turf) and they want to see there favorite character in comic as much as you would want yours even if they were dead, frankly if Jean doesn't come back it would be senseless because she is the phoenix that's like a wolf character not being rabid. This is a comic and like a comic things will change they will always change just like when Jean comes back whose to say she's going to come back and things are going to go back to the way the were no my fellow nerds were far past getting the same ol' same ol' back and she's going to evolve into a role just as every other character has. Yes she probably will have a phoenix death but it only will reflect the writers lack of idea on what to do with the character which brings me to the point of OP's post will Jean get retconned, I highly doubt it Jean Grey's story is too set in the marvel universe so retconning it any further than her time in the white hot room and any other Phoenix nonsense that went unanswered will really have me asking how dumb marvel thinks we are.

TL/DR: Jean haters go away, Jean grey enthusiasts never fear your Phoenix is near.

#15 Posted by BlackArmor (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

Hopefully the phoenix has realized Jean is dead weight and left her behind. I hate to be petty but I may honestly stop reading Marvel as a whole if Jean returns

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#16 Posted by A-Strondinaire (370 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor: Honestly are you reading the posts or running straight to the comments?

#17 Posted by BlackArmor (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

@A-Strondinaire said:

@BlackArmor: Honestly are you reading the posts or running straight to the comments?

I read the post but I didn't read the comments, I want Marvel to disregard Jean's recent developments, I know she's alive in the white room but I want Marvel to do what their good at and ignore their past writings and just say she's always been dead

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#18 Posted by A-Strondinaire (370 posts) - - Show Bio

But what kind of sense does that make it doesn't respect the characters source or writing style its just saying hey Jean hasn't done anything in a while might as well kill her.

#19 Posted by BlackArmor (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

@A-Strondinaire said:

But what kind of sense does that make it doesn't respect the characters source or writing style its just saying hey Jean hasn't done anything in a while might as well kill her.

.....This is Marvel that kinds thing is their calling card and for the first time ever I'm actually hoping they stick with it

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#20 Posted by redhood21 (815 posts) - - Show Bio

Maybe hope will be the vessel for jean's return or she will use hope to gather more of the phoenix force in one place i dunno. i do miss her though...i do :'(

#21 Posted by dimariatony (2 posts) - - Show Bio

with what i have found is that everyone has said the phoenix is collecting its pieces well what about that the phoenix is coming to hope summers because she has the last fragment of the phoenix force and then jean grey will be reborn as some of the cuckoo's fragments was leaked into hope when she was reborn this could be somthing!

#22 Posted by jrock85 (2874 posts) - - Show Bio

Its not like the X-Men have become more popular since Jean's "death".

#23 Posted by Mercy_ (92925 posts) - - Show Bio

Booooooooooo Jean.

Moderator
#24 Posted by PowerHerc (85113 posts) - - Show Bio

@daredevil21134 said:

COME BACK JEAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes!

#25 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29510 posts) - - Show Bio

@Billy Batson said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

Marvel just can't let anyone stay dead (except for Uncle Ben).

Jean coming back for anything more than a brief period of time will make Marvel all the weaker in their storytelling.

bah, Uncle Ben appeared in Spider-Island :p
BB

JMS had Uncle Ben revived briefly in Amazing Spider-man 500. Doctor Strange's idea of a birthday present to Peter.

#26 Posted by Lion_Heart22 (446 posts) - - Show Bio

It was in that moment, when all hope had faded, that Jean Grey, the White Crown Phoenix reappeared on this earth and helped vanquish the threat of the Phoenix Force...

Ok, so maybe not, but if they do bring her back, I'll have her stay for good this time. With Jean specifically, death is becoming quite a joke. Comics book characters dying and coming back is not strange at all anymore, but for a character like Jean, who is supossed to be one with the power of the Phoenix, to remain dead...

Like another person said, she wasn't really "dead", but in the White Hot Room. Marvel just likes to say she is to... idk, maybe to try and make death seem like a menace in Marvel U.... not really sure why. Thor "died" and he's back for AvsX so if that's their goal in keeping Jean "dead" all this time, they're failing at it.

#27 Posted by EnSabahNurX (2301 posts) - - Show Bio

@Lion_Heart22 said:

It was in that moment, when all hope had faded, that Jean Grey, the White Crown Phoenix reappeared on this earth and helped vanquish the threat of the Phoenix Force...

Ok, so maybe not, but if they do bring her back, I'll have her stay for good this time. With Jean specifically, death is becoming quite a joke. Comics book characters dying and coming back is not strange at all anymore, but for a character like Jean, who is supossed to be one with the power of the Phoenix, to remain dead...

Like another person said, she wasn't really "dead", but in the White Hot Room. Marvel just likes to say she is to... idk, maybe to try and make death seem like a menace in Marvel U.... not really sure why. Thor "died" and he's back for AvsX so if that's their goal in keeping Jean "dead" all this time, they're failing at it.

I like the AoA Jean in uncanny x-force because she had the phoenix force but she wasn't overpowered she seemed to be written with a high power level but it wasn't insane. I say bring her back but write her like that Jean Grey was because she seemed to be handled far better than the 616 jean has.

I'm curious why the PF that is head towards earth looks like rachel's powers while she had the PF echo.

#28 Posted by BlackArmor (6148 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Dark Huntress said:

Booooooooooo Jean.

my sentiments exactly

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#29 Posted by danhimself (22651 posts) - - Show Bio

we don't really know what the circumstances surrounding the Phoenix's return are yet though....maybe Jean has finally become one with the Phoenix Force and as such has no physical body anymore

#30 Posted by Peregrine (165 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Booooooooooo Jean.

my sentiments exactly

I don't know why so many people are Jean haters....I mean really, she is the reason I got into comics, this kid brought the Dark Phoenix Saga trade into homeroom when I was 11 and I couldn't get enough of Jean. I loved her spark, her humor, her kick-ass powerset. All these people saying they will quit reading marvel comics if Jean comes back can go ahead and quit reading...I mean if you want to quit reading a comic due to bringing back Jean you were never comic fans to begin with. Where was the outcry when Jason Todd came back from the dead, or Donna Troy, or Superboy, or Nate Grey, or Blink, or Superman for that matter ( Superman..the ultimate Mary Sue)...why are so many readers so adamant about her having to stay in the white hot room?

The Phoenix is supposed to be able to rise from the dead...so Jean coming back makes perfect sense to me. Plus I would love to see how Jean would handle the new team dynamic, would she side with Wolverine or Cyclops? And to have her reunite with her kids, Nate and Rachel. And I thought the bitchy rivalry between Jean and Emma made the Morrison run of X-Men great.

#31 Posted by HexThis (903 posts) - - Show Bio

So long as the Phoenix leaves her alone I'll be happy.

#32 Posted by butterflykyss (3919 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

No, you should not have faith in the writers at Marvel to do anything well.

THIS!!! THIS!!! AND THIS!! FTW!!

#33 Edited by time (5073 posts) - - Show Bio

@Peregrine said:

@BlackArmor said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

Booooooooooo Jean.

my sentiments exactly

I don't know why so many people are Jean haters....I mean really, she is the reason I got into comics, this kid brought the Dark Phoenix Saga trade into homeroom when I was 11 and I couldn't get enough of Jean. I loved her spark, her humor, her kick-ass powerset. All these people saying they will quit reading marvel comics if Jean comes back can go ahead and quit reading...I mean if you want to quit reading a comic due to bringing back Jean you were never comic fans to begin with. Where was the outcry when Jason Todd came back from the dead, or Donna Troy, or Superboy, or Nate Grey, or Blink, or Superman for that matter ( Superman..the ultimate Mary Sue)...why are so many readers so adamant about her having to stay in the white hot room?

The Phoenix is supposed to be able to rise from the dead...so Jean coming back makes perfect sense to me. Plus I would love to see how Jean would handle the new team dynamic, would she side with Wolverine or Cyclops? And to have her reunite with her kids, Nate and Rachel. And I thought the bitchy rivalry between Jean and Emma made the Morrison run of X-Men great.

I have to agree with you. I don't understand why some people hate her so much and don't want her back. It's make more sense if she came back, cause comics will get a whole lot better with her in them. Just look at X-Men history, some of the best stories ever told, feature her.

Age of Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix Saga, Fatal Attractions, Here Comes Tomorrow, Legion Quest, The Prime of Miss Emma Frost & Murder at the Mansion, Onslaught, Phoenix: Endsong, Phoenix: Warsong, Planet X, Ultimatum, X-Cutioner's Song & X-Tinction Agenda, Mutant Genesis etc. Some of them I just like and some of them I loved. In most of them, she had a part to play.. Stories are a lot better with her, then without her.

Over last couple of years, what stories and titles have been that good

Messiah Complex

Messiah War

Craig Kylie & Christopher Yost work on the X-Force

Joss Whedon run

That's really it.

Uncanny X-Force, X-Men legacy and X-Factor are ok titles, they have a few good stories and they also have a lot of rubbish to. Regenesis only started at end of 2011, you can't really judge on how good it's going be, cause, it just started.

To me it just make more sense to bring her back, the X-Men will probley going back to being like family again. Beast might make up with Cyclops and Charles will probable return.

On top of that, there will be more rivalry in X-Men, paricular between Emma & Jean and maybe even Scott and Logan. I have just read Generation Hope 15, Hope implied that Emma is a slut and Emma slap her. No one want's that type rivalry again. Really? With Jean it will be a whole a lot better.

Just makes more sense to bring her back. More drama and there be better stories..

#34 Posted by XsPectre28 (734 posts) - - Show Bio

i think madelyne pryor will be invovled too. i mean if the latest incarnation was infact TRULY her then what about the phoenix fragment that was in her. maybe the whole Sisterhood of Mutants storyline bore more then we saw. what if when maddie went into the body she gained access to the white hot room & boots jean out or atleast wrestles the force from her..... i mean as jean's clone wouldnt maddie start to tap into the force the same way jean did in New X-men..... )JustSayin

#35 Posted by danimal_furry (19 posts) - - Show Bio

After reading the build up and first couple of issues of AvX, I still don't know if Jean is returning. But, if anyone in the entire universe fit the requirements to constantly die and return, it is someone completely tied to th PHOENIX Force. So I still think the odds are likely.

#36 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1344 posts) - - Show Bio

afraid not seem's nobody at marvel want's jean back and there trying to divorce the PF from jean. So we get a cheap look alike destined to save the mutant race with the darker side of the PF. I mean how can you expect any less when the PF destroyed how many world's an it's way to earth. Come on marvel if your going to piss on your backstory at least do it with an new idea.

Which is to bad I like hope I'd like her better without the phoenix hanging over her head.

#37 Edited by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Crimsonlord53 said:

afraid not seem's nobody at marvel want's jean back and there trying to divorce the PF from jean. So we get a cheap look alike destined to save the mutant race with the darker side of the PF. I mean how can you expect any less when the PF destroyed how many world's an it's way to earth. Come on marvel if your going to piss on your backstory at least do it with an new idea.

Which is to bad I like hope I'd like her better without the phoenix hanging over her head.

It bothers me that marvel doesn't want jean back being she's a big part of the X-men in more ways than one. As for the PF destroying worlds well.. hate to burst your bubble it seems to be cleansing them in the form of burning them and having life reborn as part of a rebirth process. (this is shown in infinite comics 1 when nova is trying to warn the avengers, in the latest issue of Secret Avengers)

The PF has it's own agenda in mind it just can't act based on the fact it's been fragmented at least that's what i believe

#38 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3746 posts) - - Show Bio

@jrock85 said:

Its not like the X-Men have become more popular since Jean's "death".

lol i think they did because emma frost uses her sex appeal

@Mercy

_ said:

Booooooooooo Jean.

huh??? jean rocks and i think she'll be back next year for the x-men 50th anniversary

@XsPectre28 said:

i think madelyne pryor will be invovled too. i mean if the latest incarnation was infact TRULY her then what about the phoenix fragment that was in her. maybe the whole Sisterhood of Mutants storyline bore more then we saw. what if when maddie went into the body she gained access to the white hot room & boots jean out or atleast wrestles the force from her..... i mean as jean's clone wouldnt maddie start to tap into the force the same way jean did in New X-men..... )JustSayin

something like this???its from uncanny x-men 14

#39 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

When I read that issue that brought a smile to my face.

#40 Posted by Mercy_ (92925 posts) - - Show Bio

Oh, yes, I'm sure Emma Frost's sex appeal is the sole reason for the X-Men becoming more popular. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that she's a far more interesting character or the quality of writing (barring Fraction).

Moderator
#41 Posted by UltraBiel (328 posts) - - Show Bio

My dream: Jeam ressurects and tell Cyclops and wolverine how stupid they have been!

#42 Posted by Hareil0079 (429 posts) - - Show Bio

@Mercy_ said:

Oh, yes, I'm sure Emma Frost's sex appeal is the sole reason for the X-Men becoming more popular. I'm sure it doesn't have anything to do with the fact that she's a far more interesting character or the quality of writing (barring Fraction).

To each their but really it does come down to the writer.

With that said, the same can be done with Jean, but they always put her in the Love triangle begging for scott/needing scott role far too much which makes it more boring. Her 1610 and 295 counterparts are by far more interesting hell in XmFC and Season 1 hella interesting. I see AvX a perfect time for Jean to comeback even if its at the very end of the event cause at least now it'll make sense but actually branch her out.

Sadly that's to good of and Idea for marvel so it wont happen

#43 Posted by Crimsonlord53 (1344 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like to see her back more mature having accepted scott has moved on and having done so herself. I think having her be an avenger proving to steve rogers that the phoenix is contained/dormant would be an interesting dynamic. Or take hope as a student and train her which none of the current X titles have shown working.

Or with scott bat s*** crazy maybe she leads the X men.

Really hate the idea that marvel is trying to rewrite the past.

" We are Phoenix" seem's definitive to me.

#44 Posted by oraclefyre (936 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree that a character can be dynamic. Emma can be dynamic. Other times she feels like she's Scott's diva girlfriend. Jean can be a character of great strength. Jean can also just be Scott's girlfriend/wife. Emma only became really relevant within the last 10 years due Marvel putting dedication into the character. Jean also has the potential. The X-books will not sell less because of how a person doesn't like how a character's been written. It's a team book, not a character book. Sure, I absolutely hate Emma lusting after the King of Atlantis, but I won't stop buying the comics. The whole Jean vs Emma mindset is completely stupid.

It's about a writer seeing a spark in a character and unlocking that potential like Gillen did with Emma. Jean just needs the proper handling.

#45 Edited by HopesummersFORtheFUTURE (3746 posts) - - Show Bio

@jcbart: i think once jean finds the missing phoenix pieces (which according to phoenix endsong is split up into millions of pieces in three different galaxies) the phoenix would of no more use of her and maybe would bring her back alive

or maybe if the writers kill off emma they would bring jean back to fill the role as scotts girlfriend/wife???

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