@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

HCT happened for us and it happened for Jean, it only didn't happen for them because Jean changed his mind and thus the future, the beginning of your of your statements proves then that he did not chose Emma and it was the push, if his original choice without the push was Emma then there would have been no loneliness or doubt. He was having trouble re-acclimating to life after possession and she was distant because her tk was returning and stronger than ever. How much of his passion as you call it was about Emma? when in all these affair simulations she had to appear as Phoenix like as possible to get him to participate as he turned her down in real life in Hong Kong, Phoenix being the aspect of Jean that he was bonded to even before they met and Phoenix being the one to establish the psi rapport, something that Jean didn't even bother to re-establish upon his return,

Please show me one instance of him being emotionally attached to anybody on the Xmen after he got back, there are no such instances he was all about business, even Wolverine notices it, except of course when he doesn't know what Warp Savant did with is wife and we see him become enraged at the prospect of her missing. What instance of him being more alive than she has seen was she referring to? During the run they were hardly ever together and before the merge where perfectly happy so at what time in his life had he never been so alive if it wasn't the time after his return?

Your "facts" are not the facts at all

HCT was going to happen because he left Emma and the Xmen, he gave into loneliness first then doubt, it was the loneliness that had him doubt his role as leader, just like it did last time Jean "died", he has a tendency to mourn for quite some time over her. As I said if he choose Emma, and seeing her affect on him as of now, he would not have been lonely and would have had no doubts like he doesn't now thanks to Emma. Scott makes all these professions of which he would have chosen after he is pushed, as Xmen 150 clearly shows he did not make Emma his choice, then "Live Scott" and now he is with Emma and the Xmen as intended. His free will was influenced by the push. Left up to his own free will he would not be involved with any of them and would be somewhere mourning his dead wife until he died which is what must have happened at some point during those 150 years Jean cut away.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

HCT happened for us and it happened for Jean, it only didn't happen for them because Jean changed his mind and thus the future, the beginning of your of your statements proves then that he did not chose Emma and it was the push, if his original choice without the push was Emma then there would have been no loneliness or doubt. He was having trouble re-acclimating to life after possession and she was distant because her tk was returning and stronger than ever. How much of his passion as you call it was about Emma? when in all these affair simulations she had to appear as Phoenix like as possible to get him to participate as he turned her down in real life in Hong Kong, Phoenix being the aspect of Jean that he was bonded to even before they met and Phoenix being the one to establish the psi rapport, something that Jean didn't even bother to re-establish upon his return,

Please show me one instance of him being emotionally attached to anybody on the Xmen after he got back, there are no such instances he was all about business, even Wolverine notices it, except of course when he doesn't know what Warp Savant did with is wife and we see him become enraged at the prospect of her missing. What instance of him being more alive than she has seen was she referring to? During the run they were hardly ever together and before the merge where perfectly happy so at what time in his life had he never been so alive if it wasn't the time after his return?

Your "facts" are not the facts at all

HCT was going to happen because he left Emma and the Xmen, he gave into loneliness first then doubt, it was the loneliness that had him doubt his role as leader, just like it did last time Jean "died", he has a tendency to mourn for quite some time over her. As I said if he choose Emma, and seeing her affect on him as of now, he would not have been lonely and would have had no doubts like he doesn't now thanks to Emma. Scott makes all these professions of which he would have chosen after he is pushed, as Xmen 150 clearly shows he did not make Emma his choice, then "Live Scott" and now he is with Emma and the Xmen as intended. His free will was influenced by the push. Left up to his own free will he would not be involved with any of them and would be somewhere mourning his dead wife until he died which is what must have happened at some point during those 150 years Jean cut away.

Took you a while. I never said Scott showed emotionally attachment, I said he was open about his feelings. He opened up to both Emma and Wolverine about his relationship with Jean and why he no longer felt passion for her (she was distant, didn't seek to help their relationship evolve past the way it had been since they were teenagers, and she was off making out with Wolverine who had to tell her off or else she would have gone further with him). Emma dressing up as the Dark Phoenix was a means of exploring Cyclops' varying fantasies about his wife (which she refused to indulge in because she's goody-two shoes Mary Sue). They were role-playing, the kind of kinky stuff one would expect Emma to enjoy. It's really that simple.

Scott and Emma carried on the psychic affair even in instances when Emma wasn't dressed as Dark Phoenix, so your argument that that is the only way she could get him to be with her is flawed. The initial relationship may have begun with Emma manipulating Scott, but she clearly states that she falls in love with him and it is doubtful Scott would have continued the affair if he didn't share some of those feelings (don't deny this, it's pretty obvious). My "facts" are perfectly reasonable to anyone willing to use a little analytic thinking (and if you're willing to accept that Scott and Jean's marriage had run it's course).

You give Cyclops way too little credit in terms of his free will. You really think his loneliness had entirely to do with Jean? Jean was dead, he felt bad about "cheating" on her before her death so he refused Emma's offer regardless of his own (obvious) feelings for her. Loneliness because he had lost one lover, and pushed the other away, doubt in whether he and Emma could be together after Jean's death and doubt in himself as a leader after all that happened.

You make the argument that EVERYTHING Scott feels for Emma is a result of the "push" Jean gives him. She didn't enter his mind and completely implant feelings, she just gave him a nudge to accept what he REALLY wanted (to be with Emma). Scott's love for Emma is real, a result of his own feelings and NOT based entirely on Jean's influence. The only thing Jean really did was to tell Scott to live rather than succumb to despair (which, let's face it, had more to do with how bad he felt for treating Jean prior to her death rather than the death itself, if he was still so in love with Jean he wouldn't have run into the mind of another woman).

Sure, prior to New X-Men Scott and Jean SEEMED happy. But not everything is what it appears. Scott's experience after the merge affected him deeply, and he began to question how happy he really was with Jean. This was Grant Morrison deconstructing the supposedly happy couple. Scott began to feel that his relationship with Jean hadn't really progressed any since they started to date in their teens. Sure, they were married now, but did that really change anything? No. Jean still lusted after the stereotypical "bad boy" Wolverine and Scott was treated as the stiff "square" everyone perceived him as (even though he was swiftly becoming something very different, which frightened Jean's cozy little perception of Scott and their relationship).

Anyways, I'm done debating this point with you. Anyone who has read the entirety of Morrison's brilliant run knows how great he is at thoroughly deconstructing the norms of the X-Men. That included tearing down the relationship of Cyclops and Jean and replacing it with something much more modern and passionate. Not to mention, he showed us that Jean essentially needed the Phoenix to support her in order for her character to have any kind of depth (and the biggest impact she could have on Cyclops and the X-Men was to die, again). At the end of the day, Jean is dead, Scott is with Emma, and if Jean does come back then the Marvel Universe is a weaker place for it.

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

HCT happened for us and it happened for Jean, it only didn't happen for them because Jean changed his mind and thus the future, the beginning of your of your statements proves then that he did not chose Emma and it was the push, if his original choice without the push was Emma then there would have been no loneliness or doubt. He was having trouble re-acclimating to life after possession and she was distant because her tk was returning and stronger than ever. How much of his passion as you call it was about Emma? when in all these affair simulations she had to appear as Phoenix like as possible to get him to participate as he turned her down in real life in Hong Kong, Phoenix being the aspect of Jean that he was bonded to even before they met and Phoenix being the one to establish the psi rapport, something that Jean didn't even bother to re-establish upon his return,

Please show me one instance of him being emotionally attached to anybody on the Xmen after he got back, there are no such instances he was all about business, even Wolverine notices it, except of course when he doesn't know what Warp Savant did with is wife and we see him become enraged at the prospect of her missing. What instance of him being more alive than she has seen was she referring to? During the run they were hardly ever together and before the merge where perfectly happy so at what time in his life had he never been so alive if it wasn't the time after his return?

Your "facts" are not the facts at all

HCT was going to happen because he left Emma and the Xmen, he gave into loneliness first then doubt, it was the loneliness that had him doubt his role as leader, just like it did last time Jean "died", he has a tendency to mourn for quite some time over her. As I said if he choose Emma, and seeing her affect on him as of now, he would not have been lonely and would have had no doubts like he doesn't now thanks to Emma. Scott makes all these professions of which he would have chosen after he is pushed, as Xmen 150 clearly shows he did not make Emma his choice, then "Live Scott" and now he is with Emma and the Xmen as intended. His free will was influenced by the push. Left up to his own free will he would not be involved with any of them and would be somewhere mourning his dead wife until he died which is what must have happened at some point during those 150 years Jean cut away.

Took you a while. I never said Scott showed emotionally attachment, I said he was open about his feelings. He opened up to both Emma and Wolverine about his relationship with Jean and why he no longer felt passion for her (she was distant, didn't seek to help their relationship evolve past the way it had been since they were teenagers, and she was off making out with Wolverine who had to tell her off or else she would have gone further with him). Emma dressing up as the Dark Phoenix was a means of exploring Cyclops' varying fantasies about his wife (which she refused to indulge in because she's goody-two shoes Mary Sue). They were role-playing, the kind of kinky stuff one would expect Emma to enjoy. It's really that simple.

Scott and Emma carried on the psychic affair even in instances when Emma wasn't dressed as Dark Phoenix, so your argument that that is the only way she could get him to be with her is flawed. The initial relationship may have begun with Emma manipulating Scott, but she clearly states that she falls in love with him and it is doubtful Scott would have continued the affair if he didn't share some of those feelings (don't deny this, it's pretty obvious). My "facts" are perfectly reasonable to anyone willing to use a little analytic thinking (and if you're willing to accept that Scott and Jean's marriage had run it's course).

You give Cyclops way too little credit in terms of his free will. You really think his loneliness had entirely to do with Jean? Jean was dead, he felt bad about "cheating" on her before her death so he refused Emma's offer regardless of his own (obvious) feelings for her. Loneliness because he had lost one lover, and pushed the other away, doubt in whether he and Emma could be together after Jean's death and doubt in himself as a leader after all that happened.

You make the argument that EVERYTHING Scott feels for Emma is a result of the "push" Jean gives him. She didn't enter his mind and completely implant feelings, she just gave him a nudge to accept what he REALLY wanted (to be with Emma). Scott's love for Emma is real, a result of his own feelings and NOT based entirely on Jean's influence. The only thing Jean really did was to tell Scott to live rather than succumb to despair (which, let's face it, had more to do with how bad he felt for treating Jean prior to her death rather than the death itself, if he was still so in love with Jean he wouldn't have run into the mind of another woman).

Sure, prior to New X-Men Scott and Jean SEEMED happy. But not everything is what it appears. Scott's experience after the merge affected him deeply, and he began to question how happy he really was with Jean. This was Grant Morrison deconstructing the supposedly happy couple. Scott began to feel that his relationship with Jean hadn't really progressed any since they started to date in their teens. Sure, they were married now, but did that really change anything? No. Jean still lusted after the stereotypical "bad boy" Wolverine and Scott was treated as the stiff "square" everyone perceived him as (even though he was swiftly becoming something very different, which frightened Jean's cozy little perception of Scott and their relationship).

Anyways, I'm done debating this point with you. Anyone who has read the entirety of Morrison's brilliant run knows how great he is at thoroughly deconstructing the norms of the X-Men. That included tearing down the relationship of Cyclops and Jean and replacing it with something much more modern and passionate. Not to mention, he showed us that Jean essentially needed the Phoenix to support her in order for her character to have any kind of depth (and the biggest impact she could have on Cyclops and the X-Men was to die, again). At the end of the day, Jean is dead, Scott is with Emma, and if Jean does come back then the Marvel Universe is a weaker place for it.

He opened up to Emma because she acted as a therapist, when Wolverine questioned him about Jean and his relationship he told him to shut up. The only actual scene of the affair shown was her in full Dark Phoenix garb even colored her hair, other instances did not show what was going on in their heads. How is she being a goody two shoes when for the most part she wanted nothing to do with being Phoenix and in her opinion that was another woman, they argued about that back in X-factor. What's really simple is Emma took a vulnerable man and used his insecurities to get her mental rocks off.

It was clearly stated she feel in love with him, by her and Jean. There was never any indication that he loved her at all, especially when confronted with the affair, what did he do when he saw her a mess crying on the floor mentally broken. He left her there, she was murdered and he was still nowhere to be found, oh how he must of loved her. This is not about their marriage running it's course or any other such nonsense used to justify his relationship with Emma, it's about how his and Emmas relationship was even allowed to progress to what it is and that is because of the push.

I'm giving him as much credit as he deserves and it is clear in the writing of the story not assumptions created by people who'd rather see him with Emma, that his loneliness stemmed from Jeans death, just like when she "died" before, he left the Xmen to be with Maddie and Storm was leader, next thing he is X-factor and Jean is back and he and her return to the Xmen. The push happens after Jean funeral, this would have been when he decided to leave Xmen and to not pursue a relationship with Emma, after HCT that changes, thus the loneliness, the point is all of this revolved around Jean and had nothing to do with Emma until time was altered.

I made no such statement, I made the statement that he only stayed with Emma and the Xmen because of the push as a result he was able to explore a relationship with Emma, simple as that. Scott grew to love Emma he did not have those kind of deep feelings for her at first, it was a one side love, on her part.

I'm done with you as well, as it is clear that had Jean not pushed Scott he would not be with Emma. Other than you trying to prove a point by basically blaming marriage problems on imagined problems they had, when there were none until the possession and his return, prove that Jeans push had nothing to do with them being together which is the premise of my debate. Which also lead to me saying why would she need him to take her back when she gave him up.

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

HCT happened for us and it happened for Jean, it only didn't happen for them because Jean changed his mind and thus the future, the beginning of your of your statements proves then that he did not chose Emma and it was the push, if his original choice without the push was Emma then there would have been no loneliness or doubt. He was having trouble re-acclimating to life after possession and she was distant because her tk was returning and stronger than ever. How much of his passion as you call it was about Emma? when in all these affair simulations she had to appear as Phoenix like as possible to get him to participate as he turned her down in real life in Hong Kong, Phoenix being the aspect of Jean that he was bonded to even before they met and Phoenix being the one to establish the psi rapport, something that Jean didn't even bother to re-establish upon his return,

Please show me one instance of him being emotionally attached to anybody on the Xmen after he got back, there are no such instances he was all about business, even Wolverine notices it, except of course when he doesn't know what Warp Savant did with is wife and we see him become enraged at the prospect of her missing. What instance of him being more alive than she has seen was she referring to? During the run they were hardly ever together and before the merge where perfectly happy so at what time in his life had he never been so alive if it wasn't the time after his return?

Your "facts" are not the facts at all

HCT was going to happen because he left Emma and the Xmen, he gave into loneliness first then doubt, it was the loneliness that had him doubt his role as leader, just like it did last time Jean "died", he has a tendency to mourn for quite some time over her. As I said if he choose Emma, and seeing her affect on him as of now, he would not have been lonely and would have had no doubts like he doesn't now thanks to Emma. Scott makes all these professions of which he would have chosen after he is pushed, as Xmen 150 clearly shows he did not make Emma his choice, then "Live Scott" and now he is with Emma and the Xmen as intended. His free will was influenced by the push. Left up to his own free will he would not be involved with any of them and would be somewhere mourning his dead wife until he died which is what must have happened at some point during those 150 years Jean cut away.

Took you a while. I never said Scott showed emotionally attachment, I said he was open about his feelings. He opened up to both Emma and Wolverine about his relationship with Jean and why he no longer felt passion for her (she was distant, didn't seek to help their relationship evolve past the way it had been since they were teenagers, and she was off making out with Wolverine who had to tell her off or else she would have gone further with him). Emma dressing up as the Dark Phoenix was a means of exploring Cyclops' varying fantasies about his wife (which she refused to indulge in because she's goody-two shoes Mary Sue). They were role-playing, the kind of kinky stuff one would expect Emma to enjoy. It's really that simple.

Scott and Emma carried on the psychic affair even in instances when Emma wasn't dressed as Dark Phoenix, so your argument that that is the only way she could get him to be with her is flawed. The initial relationship may have begun with Emma manipulating Scott, but she clearly states that she falls in love with him and it is doubtful Scott would have continued the affair if he didn't share some of those feelings (don't deny this, it's pretty obvious). My "facts" are perfectly reasonable to anyone willing to use a little analytic thinking (and if you're willing to accept that Scott and Jean's marriage had run it's course).

You give Cyclops way too little credit in terms of his free will. You really think his loneliness had entirely to do with Jean? Jean was dead, he felt bad about "cheating" on her before her death so he refused Emma's offer regardless of his own (obvious) feelings for her. Loneliness because he had lost one lover, and pushed the other away, doubt in whether he and Emma could be together after Jean's death and doubt in himself as a leader after all that happened.

You make the argument that EVERYTHING Scott feels for Emma is a result of the "push" Jean gives him. She didn't enter his mind and completely implant feelings, she just gave him a nudge to accept what he REALLY wanted (to be with Emma). Scott's love for Emma is real, a result of his own feelings and NOT based entirely on Jean's influence. The only thing Jean really did was to tell Scott to live rather than succumb to despair (which, let's face it, had more to do with how bad he felt for treating Jean prior to her death rather than the death itself, if he was still so in love with Jean he wouldn't have run into the mind of another woman).

Sure, prior to New X-Men Scott and Jean SEEMED happy. But not everything is what it appears. Scott's experience after the merge affected him deeply, and he began to question how happy he really was with Jean. This was Grant Morrison deconstructing the supposedly happy couple. Scott began to feel that his relationship with Jean hadn't really progressed any since they started to date in their teens. Sure, they were married now, but did that really change anything? No. Jean still lusted after the stereotypical "bad boy" Wolverine and Scott was treated as the stiff "square" everyone perceived him as (even though he was swiftly becoming something very different, which frightened Jean's cozy little perception of Scott and their relationship).

Anyways, I'm done debating this point with you. Anyone who has read the entirety of Morrison's brilliant run knows how great he is at thoroughly deconstructing the norms of the X-Men. That included tearing down the relationship of Cyclops and Jean and replacing it with something much more modern and passionate. Not to mention, he showed us that Jean essentially needed the Phoenix to support her in order for her character to have any kind of depth (and the biggest impact she could have on Cyclops and the X-Men was to die, again). At the end of the day, Jean is dead, Scott is with Emma, and if Jean does come back then the Marvel Universe is a weaker place for it.

He opened up to Emma because she acted as a therapist, when Wolverine questioned him about Jean and his relationship he told him to shut up. The only actual scene of the affair shown was her in full Dark Phoenix garb even colored her hair, other instances did not show what was going on in their heads. How is she being a goody two shoes when for the most part she wanted nothing to do with being Phoenix and in her opinion that was another woman, they argued about that back in X-factor. What's really simple is Emma took a vulnerable man and used his insecurities to get her mental rocks off.

It was clearly stated she feel in love with him, by her and Jean. There was never any indication that he loved her at all, especially when confronted with the affair, what did he do when he saw her a mess crying on the floor mentally broken. He left her there, she was murdered and he was still nowhere to be found, oh how he must of loved her. This is not about their marriage running it's course or any other such nonsense used to justify his relationship with Emma, it's about how his and Emmas relationship was even allowed to progress to what it is and that is because of the push.

I'm giving him as much credit as he deserves and it is clear in the writing of the story not assumptions created by people who'd rather see him with Emma, that his loneliness stemmed from Jeans death, just like when she "died" before, he left the Xmen to be with Maddie and Storm was leader, next thing he is X-factor and Jean is back and he and her return to the Xmen. The push happens after Jean funeral, this would have been when he decided to leave Xmen and to not pursue a relationship with Emma, after HCT that changes, thus the loneliness, the point is all of this revolved around Jean and had nothing to do with Emma until time was altered.

I made no such statement, I made the statement that he only stayed with Emma and the Xmen because of the push as a result he was able to explore a relationship with Emma, simple as that. Scott grew to love Emma he did not have those kind of deep feelings for her at first, it was a one side love, on her part.

I'm done with you as well, as it is clear that had Jean not pushed Scott he would not be with Emma. Other than you trying to prove a point by basically blaming marriage problems on imagined problems they had, when there were none until the possession and his return, prove that Jeans push had nothing to do with them being together which is the premise of my debate. Which also lead to me saying why would she need him to take her back when she gave him up.

All right, now you're just reaching. I put up with your nonsense until now, but seriously, you're arguments are just weak. Scott had NO IDEA Emma had been shot, none whatsoever. I pointed out to you that Scott wouldn't have continued the affair if he didn't feel something for Emma (I never said he deeply loved her, just that held at least some mutual feelings). There were also clearly shown instances of Emma and Scott together in their minds where Emma was not dressed as Phoenix.

Scott left because he was enraged at Jean for attacking Emma, he blasted down the door to confront Jean and demanded she look inside his mind to prove that his relationship with Emma was purely telepathic in nature (and in doing so helped to show Jean for the petty and hypocritical woman she really was, as while Scott was having a psychic affair with Emma she was off trying to have a physical affair with Wolverine). No, Scott didn't comfort Emma, and that is a mark against him, but he was furious and needed to get his thoughts together. That's when he went to the Hellfire Club and talked about how Jean was close-minded about their relationship. He told Logan to shut up the first time he asked about hings, but during the Assault on Weapon Plus he eventually opened up to him.

You make the argument that HCT had nothing to do with Emma, are you serious?! HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer after Jean's death, that is the DEFINING reason for the event. His accepting of Emma is what prevents the timeline from taking place, it's the entire purpose of the freaking storyline! That would be why the last page is him and Emma embracing, showing that Cyclops had moved on and HCT was prevented.

Sure, if Jean hadn't given Scott the nudge he wouldn't be with Emma, but making the argument that it is the entire basis for their relationship (especially seeing how it has evolved into one of the most prominent ones in the MU) is foolish. Scott's admission that he would choose Emma over Jean if it came to it is based on his own love for her (a love that is now greater than his love for Jean, who he will always have a special place in his heart for). The only real involvement Jean had was to give Cyclops the push to accept Emma (again, she didn't completely create his feelings for Emma, just gave him a push to get past his doubt about being with her and the despair he felt).

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

HCT did happen, Jean prevented it and now it is no longer a viable future, you need to read the scan I posted it clearly says he succumbs to loneliness and doubt not guilt, it says nothing about anything you are mentioning, nothing? He is not even present in HCT for you come up with the assumption that he felt he didn't deserve the lead or to be with Emma, the only insight we have is what the consciousness told Jean and that is he gave into loneliness and doubt, how would he be lonely if he choose Emma? How would he give into doubt if, as you claim he made a decision? You need to accept that. If any of this was the case Jean would not still be a subject in his dreams and his fights with Wolverine. This would not be the first time Jean "died" and he wanted to leave the Xmen. Scott was emotionally distant from everybody after the merge, her death scene is the first time he has shown any sign of having emotion since then, that is what she is talking about. She pushed him to live that is why they make sure you see him and Emma after the push to let you know what life she pushed him towards, If he felt any guilt it was due to the affair not some choice you people are trying to say he made before the push. So lets go over the facts...

Jean dies, Scott gives in to loneliness and doubt (not guilt), and leaves the Xmen and Emma

This causes Beast stress as he is now in charge and starts to abuse kick, he becomes Sublime and the universe needs to be disinfected, it is instead amputated

Jean makes a decision, so that Scott won't succumb to loneliness and doubt she pushed him to live and that is with Emma, Emma is what pushes him to stay with the Xmen as we can see in current comics..

Everything else including Scott/Emma follows the push, White Phoenix retconned the entire universe so that these two would be together

That is what needs to be accepted!

If Jean prevented HCT, then it didn't happen. You're right, it does say that Scott succumbs to loneliness and doubt, but why do you think that is? He was lonely because Jean was dead and he had pushed Emma away after, and he doubted not only if he would be happy with Emma but he also didn't think he still had what it took to lead after all that had happened (i.e. why Beast had to step in). It's easy to see that the source of all this doubt was his guilt for having an affair on his passive-aggressive wife who he was living in a passionless relationship with (whereas his relationship with Emma was quite passionate).

Scott was not emotionally distant towards everyone after returning, he was emotionally distant towards Jean. Did you even read all of Morrison's New X-Men? He wasn't distant towards Emma, Beast, Logan, or even Xorn. Do you also honestly think Jean was referring to Scott crying at her death when she said that he had looked so alive? Scott had recently become much more determined and aggressive when it came to his work with the X-Men. Part of this was the stark personality change he went through after the merge with Apocalypse, and part of it was the new found passion and push being with Emma had brought him. The evidence of the latter is quite clear seeing the relationship the two develop. Being with Emma helped push Scott to become more audacious.

The facts are quite simple:

• HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer to be with her and reopen the school, as he doubted things and felt guilty after Jean died
• Seeing this grim future, Jean gives Scott the push to get past his guilt over betraying her as well as the doubt he feels about leading the X-Men and being with Emma
• Scott has professed that he would have chosen Emma over Jean when it came to it, which is clearly an admission he gives of his own free will with no psychic push

HCT happened for us and it happened for Jean, it only didn't happen for them because Jean changed his mind and thus the future, the beginning of your of your statements proves then that he did not chose Emma and it was the push, if his original choice without the push was Emma then there would have been no loneliness or doubt. He was having trouble re-acclimating to life after possession and she was distant because her tk was returning and stronger than ever. How much of his passion as you call it was about Emma? when in all these affair simulations she had to appear as Phoenix like as possible to get him to participate as he turned her down in real life in Hong Kong, Phoenix being the aspect of Jean that he was bonded to even before they met and Phoenix being the one to establish the psi rapport, something that Jean didn't even bother to re-establish upon his return,

Please show me one instance of him being emotionally attached to anybody on the Xmen after he got back, there are no such instances he was all about business, even Wolverine notices it, except of course when he doesn't know what Warp Savant did with is wife and we see him become enraged at the prospect of her missing. What instance of him being more alive than she has seen was she referring to? During the run they were hardly ever together and before the merge where perfectly happy so at what time in his life had he never been so alive if it wasn't the time after his return?

Your "facts" are not the facts at all

HCT was going to happen because he left Emma and the Xmen, he gave into loneliness first then doubt, it was the loneliness that had him doubt his role as leader, just like it did last time Jean "died", he has a tendency to mourn for quite some time over her. As I said if he choose Emma, and seeing her affect on him as of now, he would not have been lonely and would have had no doubts like he doesn't now thanks to Emma. Scott makes all these professions of which he would have chosen after he is pushed, as Xmen 150 clearly shows he did not make Emma his choice, then "Live Scott" and now he is with Emma and the Xmen as intended. His free will was influenced by the push. Left up to his own free will he would not be involved with any of them and would be somewhere mourning his dead wife until he died which is what must have happened at some point during those 150 years Jean cut away.

Took you a while. I never said Scott showed emotionally attachment, I said he was open about his feelings. He opened up to both Emma and Wolverine about his relationship with Jean and why he no longer felt passion for her (she was distant, didn't seek to help their relationship evolve past the way it had been since they were teenagers, and she was off making out with Wolverine who had to tell her off or else she would have gone further with him). Emma dressing up as the Dark Phoenix was a means of exploring Cyclops' varying fantasies about his wife (which she refused to indulge in because she's goody-two shoes Mary Sue). They were role-playing, the kind of kinky stuff one would expect Emma to enjoy. It's really that simple.

Scott and Emma carried on the psychic affair even in instances when Emma wasn't dressed as Dark Phoenix, so your argument that that is the only way she could get him to be with her is flawed. The initial relationship may have begun with Emma manipulating Scott, but she clearly states that she falls in love with him and it is doubtful Scott would have continued the affair if he didn't share some of those feelings (don't deny this, it's pretty obvious). My "facts" are perfectly reasonable to anyone willing to use a little analytic thinking (and if you're willing to accept that Scott and Jean's marriage had run it's course).

You give Cyclops way too little credit in terms of his free will. You really think his loneliness had entirely to do with Jean? Jean was dead, he felt bad about "cheating" on her before her death so he refused Emma's offer regardless of his own (obvious) feelings for her. Loneliness because he had lost one lover, and pushed the other away, doubt in whether he and Emma could be together after Jean's death and doubt in himself as a leader after all that happened.

You make the argument that EVERYTHING Scott feels for Emma is a result of the "push" Jean gives him. She didn't enter his mind and completely implant feelings, she just gave him a nudge to accept what he REALLY wanted (to be with Emma). Scott's love for Emma is real, a result of his own feelings and NOT based entirely on Jean's influence. The only thing Jean really did was to tell Scott to live rather than succumb to despair (which, let's face it, had more to do with how bad he felt for treating Jean prior to her death rather than the death itself, if he was still so in love with Jean he wouldn't have run into the mind of another woman).

Sure, prior to New X-Men Scott and Jean SEEMED happy. But not everything is what it appears. Scott's experience after the merge affected him deeply, and he began to question how happy he really was with Jean. This was Grant Morrison deconstructing the supposedly happy couple. Scott began to feel that his relationship with Jean hadn't really progressed any since they started to date in their teens. Sure, they were married now, but did that really change anything? No. Jean still lusted after the stereotypical "bad boy" Wolverine and Scott was treated as the stiff "square" everyone perceived him as (even though he was swiftly becoming something very different, which frightened Jean's cozy little perception of Scott and their relationship).

Anyways, I'm done debating this point with you. Anyone who has read the entirety of Morrison's brilliant run knows how great he is at thoroughly deconstructing the norms of the X-Men. That included tearing down the relationship of Cyclops and Jean and replacing it with something much more modern and passionate. Not to mention, he showed us that Jean essentially needed the Phoenix to support her in order for her character to have any kind of depth (and the biggest impact she could have on Cyclops and the X-Men was to die, again). At the end of the day, Jean is dead, Scott is with Emma, and if Jean does come back then the Marvel Universe is a weaker place for it.

He opened up to Emma because she acted as a therapist, when Wolverine questioned him about Jean and his relationship he told him to shut up. The only actual scene of the affair shown was her in full Dark Phoenix garb even colored her hair, other instances did not show what was going on in their heads. How is she being a goody two shoes when for the most part she wanted nothing to do with being Phoenix and in her opinion that was another woman, they argued about that back in X-factor. What's really simple is Emma took a vulnerable man and used his insecurities to get her mental rocks off.

It was clearly stated she feel in love with him, by her and Jean. There was never any indication that he loved her at all, especially when confronted with the affair, what did he do when he saw her a mess crying on the floor mentally broken. He left her there, she was murdered and he was still nowhere to be found, oh how he must of loved her. This is not about their marriage running it's course or any other such nonsense used to justify his relationship with Emma, it's about how his and Emmas relationship was even allowed to progress to what it is and that is because of the push.

I'm giving him as much credit as he deserves and it is clear in the writing of the story not assumptions created by people who'd rather see him with Emma, that his loneliness stemmed from Jeans death, just like when she "died" before, he left the Xmen to be with Maddie and Storm was leader, next thing he is X-factor and Jean is back and he and her return to the Xmen. The push happens after Jean funeral, this would have been when he decided to leave Xmen and to not pursue a relationship with Emma, after HCT that changes, thus the loneliness, the point is all of this revolved around Jean and had nothing to do with Emma until time was altered.

I made no such statement, I made the statement that he only stayed with Emma and the Xmen because of the push as a result he was able to explore a relationship with Emma, simple as that. Scott grew to love Emma he did not have those kind of deep feelings for her at first, it was a one side love, on her part.

I'm done with you as well, as it is clear that had Jean not pushed Scott he would not be with Emma. Other than you trying to prove a point by basically blaming marriage problems on imagined problems they had, when there were none until the possession and his return, prove that Jeans push had nothing to do with them being together which is the premise of my debate. Which also lead to me saying why would she need him to take her back when she gave him up.

All right, now you're just reaching. I put up with your nonsense until now, but seriously, you're arguments are just weak. Scott had NO IDEA Emma had been shot, none whatsoever. I pointed out to you that Scott wouldn't have continued the affair if he didn't feel something for Emma (I never said he deeply loved her, just that held at least a mutual attraction). There were also clearly shown instances of Emma and Scott together in their minds where Emma was not dressed as Phoenix.

Scott left because he was enraged at Jean for attacking Emma, he blasted down the door to confront Jean and demanded she look inside his mind to prove that his relationship with Emma was purely telepathic in nature (and in doing so helped to show Jean for the petty and hypocritical woman she really was, as while Scott was having a psychic affair with Emma she was off trying to have a physical affair with Wolverine). No, Scott didn't comfort Emma, and that is a mark against him, but he was furious and needed to get his thoughts together. That's when he went to the Hellfire Club and talked about how Jean was close-minded about their relationship. He told Logan to shut up the first time he asked about hings, but during the Assault on Weapon Plus he eventually opened up to him.

You make the argument that HCT had nothing to do with Emma, are you serious?! HCT was going to happen because Scott was going to refuse Emma's offer after Jean's death, that is the DEFINING reason for the event. His accepting of Emma is what prevents the timeline from taking place, it's the entire purpose of the freaking storyline! That would be why the last page is him and Emma embracing, showing that Cyclops had moved on and HCT was prevented.

Sure, if Jean hadn't given Scott the nudge he wouldn't be with Emma, but making the argument that it is the entire basis for their relationship (especially seeing how it has evolved into one of the most prominent ones in the MU) is foolish. Scott's admission that he would choose Emma over Jean if it came to it is based on his own love for her (a love that is now greater than his love for Jean, who he will always have a special place in his heart for). The only real involvement Jean had was to give Cyclops the push to accept Emma (again, she didn't completely create his feelings for Emma, just gave him a push to get past his doubt about being with her and the despair he felt).

he would have known had he not left her beaten and broken on the floor. When they were caught was the end of their affair and it was not a physical one she is the telepath not him so how exactly was he supposed to stop it other then tell her it was wrong? which he did and she continued, when he refused her she turned up the heat and garbed herself in Phoenix clothes and red hair. In the instance of her not dressing up he tells her we shouldn't and she still presses on, not him.

He let Jean in his mind to show her that they didn't shag in Hong Kong.

That's the point HCT was going to happen because he refused Emma, so in what way does that translate to he choose her before the push?

It is the entire basis, they would not have one if he was not pushed it's that simple whatever happened after was all them, but there would be no them if not for two of Jeans feats the first is even bringing Emma back to life, her way of saying sorry for beating you so badly you can't help that you fell in love with my husband and then the push.

@LordOfAllHumans: Emma was emotionally shocked, but you act as if Jean beat her with a crowbar. Cyclops had no idea what Jean had done to her. You really have a warped perception of the affair, don't you? You seem to absolutely refuse the idea that, despite his initial reservations, Scott wanted to be with Emma. Face it, it wasn't all Emma forcing him to play sexual mind games, he was just so used to being the reserved one and Emma was giving him the chance to finally cut loose.

Scott only had reservations about the instance above because they were around the others at the time, but she convinced him it was okay as no one else could see (so they continued to mutually meet this way). The affair began with some manipulation on Emma's part, but no one in their right mind reading the the relationship would deny Cyclops wanted it just as much as Emma. Who Scott chose before Jean's death is ultimately irrelevant. I think it is far more likely he chose Emma, but ultimately we can't really know because it wasn't stated outright (although what we can go off of is Scott saying he would choose Emma over Jean NOW of his own free will).

As for your last paragraph, I have no idea what you are trying to say. Seriously, I cannot decipher what you are even talking about except for you praising Mary Sue Jean.

I believe Scott won't be surpised at Jean coming...hell I doubt anyone will. As far as Jean and Scott getting back together... I highly doubt, Jean told him to move already. Hopefully when she returns Jean goes to the institute instead of that rock floating in the Pacific.

@kicxka5s: I agree, I doubt Jean's return would surprise anyone at this point lol. Have there been any announcements about her return yet? I'm kind of getting sick of the waiting game Marvel is playing, I mean we know she's coming back, Marvel knows she's coming back, even the X-Men know Jean's gonna be back eventually. And I really hope Marvel doesn't bring Jean and Scott back together, Jean's a strong independent woman and doesn't really need a man, and Scott needs to get away from being the guy who's trying to conquer the Phoenix.

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

He didn't choose Emma over Jean and why can't people accept that. After Jean death, Cyclops wanted to leave the X-Men and he had no intention of being with Emma Frost after her death. It wasn't till Jean force him to. In the story Pheonix Endsong, why do you think he had such strong feelings for Emma, cause of Jean Grey. She wanted them to have to future together, she wanted him to move on . So if she didn't, during time after here comes tomorrow story, Scott wouldn't of develop such strong feelings for Emma. Emma is with Scott, cause of Jean, she is X-Men leading lady, cause of Jean. Scott will never loved Emma more than he loves Jean.

@time said:

@ApatheticAvenger said:

@LordOfAllHumans said:

@LadyHarley said:

@The Dark Huntress said:

@LordOfAllHumans: He actually did make the decision to leave Jean before her death. This is from the Murder at the Mansion arc, in which Emma's shattered and subsequently put back together by jean.

Good point. He mentioned in Phoenix Endsong #1 that he chose Emma. Even if Jean hadn't died he still would have chosen Emma.

Not a good point unless you ignore what happened before, he didn't choose Emma he only mentioned that after Jean pushed him, Endsong is after HCT, the push comes at the end of HCT which only happened because he left the Xmen and Emma, brokenhearted about Jeans death, it is explained in HCT, even in death he choose Jean she had to reach from beyond space and time and tell him to live, he does this by staying with the Xmen and Emma instead of mourning her. The scan above is him telling Emma he made a decision (while Jean was still alive) the events following clearly show that he choose Jean, even in death. He doesn't know why he choose Emma so of course he says I choose you, we all know whether you want to ignore it or not that Jean choose Emma for him because she knew after their fight that Emma was genuinely in love with Scott as she mentions to Beast before she resurrects Emma. Below is the push (that predated their entire relationship expect for what Emma called "just thoughts" and that was one sided because Scott did not love her during their "affair" and she had to dress up like Phoenix to even get him interested) that led to Emma and Scott being together to avoid what the Omega Kid Phoenix is saying he would do with the universe, which is let it die. She choose to grow a new future, why did it need a new future you say? because Scott in fact did not choose Emma or anything else expect loneliness because he never let go of Jean, which led to Beast taking kick under the stress of running the school and becoming Sublimes new host.

Scott didn't choose Jean, he chose Emma, you need to accept that. The reason Here Comes Tomorrow was going to happen (GOING to happen, it didn't) was that Scott felt guilty after Jean's death and felt that he didn't deserve to lead the X-Men or be with Emma. Jean didn't force Scott to be with Emma, she just gave him the push to get past his guilt and accept his desire to be with her. Look at what Jean says with her dying words, she tells Scott that she hasn't seen him so alive in a long time.

He didn't choose Emma over Jean and why can't people accept that. After Jean death, Cyclops wanted to leave the X-Men and he had no intention of being with Emma Frost after her death. It wasn't till Jean force him to. In the story Pheonix Endsong, why do you think he had such strong feelings for Emma, cause of Jean Grey. She wanted them to have to future together, she wanted him to move on . So if she didn't, during time after here comes tomorrow story, Scott wouldn't of develop such strong feelings for Emma. Emma is with Scott, cause of Jean, she is X-Men leading lady, cause of Jean. Scott will never loved Emma more than he loves Jean.

Not to come across as a jerk, but your grammar is atrocious. It may sound petty, but it really hurts your argument if it's hard to read. Again, not trying to be a jerk. I've also already refuted the arguments you make here, pointing out that it's a very weak position to take that Scott's loving relationship with Emma is rooted entirely in Jean's psychic push. After all, he was going outside his marriage to have a psychic affair with Emma (while little miss perfect Jean was attempting to have a PHYSICAL affair with Wolverine, who had to tell her off).

It's pretty reasonable to think Scott would have chosen Emma over Jean. He openly talks to Wolverine about how his relationship with Jean hasn't progressed, and that Emma is more accepting of him. Scott didn't accept Emma at first because he felt terrible after Jean died (I love Cyclops, but he's kind of self-loathing that way). Jean recognized that Cyclops needed to move on and that he and Emma should be together. She may have given him the nudge to get past his depression and accept Emma into his life, but she isn't responsible for their love.

@LordOfAllHumans Jean and Scott outgrew each other. Yes, they loved each other, but they were no longer the people they fell in love with. They were no longer Marvel Girl and Cyclops. I don't deny they had some great years, but they grew up. Scott sought comfort in Emma and a part of Jean always belonged to Logan.

@ApatheticAvenger *applauds* Well said:D

@LadyHarley said:

@LordOfAllHumans Jean and Scott outgrew each other. Yes, they loved each other, but they were no longer the people they fell in love with. They were no longer Marvel Girl and Cyclops. I don't deny they had some great years, but they grew up. Scott sought comfort in Emma and a part of Jean always belonged to Logan.

@ApatheticAvenger *applauds*

I...think I love you.

@Morgaine_de_Bourbon said:

@LadyHarley said:

@LordOfAllHumans Jean and Scott outgrew each other. Yes, they loved each other, but they were no longer the people they fell in love with. They were no longer Marvel Girl and Cyclops. I don't deny they had some great years, but they grew up. Scott sought comfort in Emma and a part of Jean always belonged to Logan.

@ApatheticAvenger *applauds*

I...think I love you.

Indeed. ^_^

i think she should go to logan and finally be together.... fucking scott

He'll act like the a-hole he is.

They should seriously bring her back for good, it's getting a little ridiculous. And i only care about Logan's reaction, i feel like as much as scott claimed he loved her, he still left her, and logan's love for her has never stopped

I hope to Heck they keep the four of them apart let jean stand on her own logan has his school scott and emma have there island. If and when jean and emma have there tet a tet let it be long after jean comes back. Scott is a big boy it might be awkard for him at first but if the girls can keep there claws sheath he should be okay.

@LordOfAllHumans: Best damn post ever emma should be afraid of phoenix because phoenix can do what ever she want its not cyclops choice its jean choice it always has been and it always will be if jean want to be with scott she will if he likes it or not so its not how scott reacts its how jean feels about scott and you know what she proly over him so don't worry emma fans shes over him she can have her left over grabage :D! unless she wants him we never know

If jean does comes back lets hope she doesn't get with logan or scott she need to be herself and kick butt

It wouldn't surprise me if they got back together Scott has always said that he loves Jean and that she will always be a part of him (Even to Emma) she's the person he's loved more than anyone in his life and considering all the crap they've been through i'm sure they could get past his affair/relationship with Emma. They didn't outgrow each other they just had a rough patch with Scott having been posessed and Jeans phoenix power coming back and because of Jeans death they didn't get the chance to reconcile. Marvel needs to learn a thing or two about relationships. People don't always have to die/have an affair to make things interesting.

does anyone see how hope summers looks like jean has the phoenix coming for hope like jean etc????can hope be the reincarnated jean grey?????duh what do u think???:DD

@HopesummersFORtheFUTURE: Maybe I just want jean back its not fair the every one elses favorite comic book character is alive and not mine D: (or any jean fans)

@oviouslyjeangrey: im a hugh jean grey fan too...how hope she comes back too.....shes been died for so long ......i hate it when ppl in the comics reference her its sad

if jean grey comes back then we'll i know who scott loves more her or emma cause he could only be with one

I have a question for Jean Grey fans...after everything that went down prior to her death and everything that happened afterwards...would you even want her to be with Scott again? I think it'd be kind of insulting to Jean to attempt to go back to him.

@Mercy_: Lol well im a jean fan and personally no I don't think i wan them together I mean they are over each other and they make each other boring But scott still loved jean more than he will over love Emma notice said LOVED

But if she wants scott she can have him lol she can really do anything she want she can make it that emma was never a part of scott live really lol

@Mercy_: Personally I would love for them to get back together. Prior to Grant Morrissons New X-men they were in a steady relationship and were happy. Even during New X-men it's not as if they were on the verge of divorce they were just distant from each other and although it seems as though Scott got over her, if it does turn out that she "nudged" him to love Emma and not just get past his grief, Jean might just undo that and get back with him after all it has never been said that she stopped loving him. I like the Scott/Emma relationship but I love the Scott/Jean relationship.

Jean should hook up with Iceman who she has secretly loved for all these years.

@AskaniSon295 said:

Jean should hook up with Wolverine who she has secretly loved for all these years.

Fixed that for you.

@Osian2 said:

@Mercy_: Personally I would love for them to get back together. Prior to Grant Morrissons New X-men they were in a steady relationship and were happy. Even during New X-men it's not as if they were on the verge of divorce they were just distant from each other and although it seems as though Scott got over her, if it does turn out that she "nudged" him to love Emma and not just get past his grief, Jean might just undo that and get back with him after all it has never been said that she stopped loving him. I like the Scott/Emma relationship but I love the Scott/Jean relationship.

They kind of were exactly on the verge of divorce, though. Jean wanted to attempt to make things work and Scott wanted none of it. They were married in name only at that point, imo.

I don't think that Jean's that petty. I'm not her biggest fan, by any means, but she has more self-respect than that. What self-respecting woman would go crawling back to a man who eschewed her in the first place? He's moved on and is quite happy with Emma in a way that he wasn't really with Jean.

Were I in Jean's place and I came back to that, I'd be heartbroken, yeah, but I'd also want to get away from them for a long while and clear my head.

Who cares? She'll be dead within the next few months at any rate. Scott will just go back to Emma, who I'm certain is the true love of his life at this point.

@Illuminatus: You're awesome.

@Mercy_: Whisper that in my ear. ;)

Seriously though, you're awesome-r.

@Illuminatus said:

Who cares? She'll be dead within the next few months at any rate. Scott will just go back to Emma, who I'm certain is the true love of his life at this point.

Its dawning on me that she just might be.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I like their relationship when its seen as more "real", as opposed to so over-exaggerated.

Regardless, Scott will and should stay with Emma. Hell, even if he does leave Emma, I implore Marvel that he doesn't go back to Jean.

@ReVamp said:

@Illuminatus said:

Who cares? She'll be dead within the next few months at any rate. Scott will just go back to Emma, who I'm certain is the true love of his life at this point.

Its dawning on me that she just might be.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I like their relationship when its seen as more "real", as opposed to so over-exaggerated.

Regardless, Scott will and should stay with Emma. Hell, even if he does leave Emma, I implore Marvel that he doesn't go back to Jean.

Same here. Marvel always takes Scott and Jean's relationship to these harrowing extremes, whereas his relationship with Emma, while quite eventful and full of turmoil, is never taken to those extremes and writers often focus on the small, incremental details of it, which is charming.

If he were to leave Emma, I suspect he'd end up with some really bizarre choice, like Magik or Pixie.

@Mercy_: I disagree that they were on the verge of divorce the reason Scott didn't want to speak to her is because he felt that she would be disgusted with the thoughts he got from his merger with Apocalypse and he did want to make things work which is why he had therapy with Emma (although it led to the affair). I do agree that she wouldn't go crawling back to him if anything he will be the one crawling but I do think that she would take him back.

I don't think Jean is comming back, but if this happens I would be very happy if they did the character some justice, letting her having a "solo" mini-series figuring out what she would do to her life without anyones interferance.

For me: No ScottxJean

No LoganxJean

Instead Jean rebuilding her "life" alone for a change!

@Osian2 said:

@Mercy_: I disagree that they were on the verge of divorce the reason Scott didn't want to speak to her is because he felt that she would be disgusted with the thoughts he got from his merger with Apocalypse and he did want to make things work which is why he had therapy with Emma (although it led to the affair).

I think it's up to personal interpretation at this point.

I do agree that she wouldn't go crawling back to him if anything he will be the one crawling but I do think that she would take him back.

This however I absolutely and wholeheartedly disagree with. Scott has completely and utterly moved on from Jean.

@ReVamp said:

@Illuminatus said:

Who cares? She'll be dead within the next few months at any rate. Scott will just go back to Emma, who I'm certain is the true love of his life at this point.

Its dawning on me that she just might be.

I'm not sure how I feel about it. I like their relationship when its seen as more "real", as opposed to so over-exaggerated.

Regardless, Scott will and should stay with Emma. Hell, even if he does leave Emma, I implore Marvel that he doesn't go back to Jean.

This is how I've always viewed it.

Jean Grey was the first true love of his life. She was his high school sweetheart and she was great for him - when they were younger. She allowed him to wallow in whatever it was he wallowed in and their relationship was so drama fueled and soap operatic that it became overdone.

Emma is his true partner in every sense of the word. She calls him on his sh!t and doesn't let him get away with anything and at the same time supports him in his endeavors. She doesn’t enable him, quite the opposite actually. One of my favorite scenes between the two of them (and the first time after Fraction’s run where I really went ‘oh, she’s going to be okay’) is in the ReGenesis one-shot written by Kieron Gillen where she confronts Scott about him just assuming that she’s going to stay on Utopia. Emma’s first love is teaching and the way that scene was handled was impeccable and was also a bit of a wry shot at how Fraction had mishandled the whole relationship and Emma in general.

If Scott were (by some insane means) to leave Emma and go back to Jean, I would actually drop my X-Men books, barring X-Factor.

@Illuminatus said:

Same here. Marvel always takes Scott and Jean's relationship to these harrowing extremes, whereas his relationship with Emma, while quite eventful and full of turmoil, is never taken to those extremes and writers often focus on the small, incremental details of it, which is charming.

If he were to leave Emma, I suspect he'd end up with some really bizarre choice, like Magik or Pixie.

Yes, exactly. I agree full heartedly.

Magik is okay, but a full blown no to Pixie.

But, yeah, if Jean does come back, she should just end up with Logan.

@UltraBiel said:

I don't think Jean is comming back, but if this happens I would be very happy if they did the character some justice, letting her having a "solo" mini-series figuring out what she would do to her life without anyones interferance.

For me: No ScottxJean

No LoganxJean

Instead Jean rebuilding her "life" alone for a change!

I agree with this. But if she were to come back, totally ship Logan x Jean

@Mercy_: I don't view it as such, but I can easily see how that's interpreted in such a manner. I think her being his "true love" takes away from the relationship itself. Perhaps complementing him better that Jean could or would, but going to such extremes doesn't suit the relationship IMO.

@ReVamp: O_o I find that I actually agree.

I want mah Logan/Scott and Emma/Jean or Frororo ships to happen :)
BB

@Mercy_ said:

@ReVamp: O_o I find that I actually agree.

Of course you do. You're a true Emma Fan.

lol.

I agree with this. But if she were to come back, totally ship Logan x Jean

Same. This is weird. We're agreeing too much.

@ReVamp said:

You're a true Emma Fan.

One of the best compliments you could ever give me.

Same. This is weird. We're agreeing too much.

I know O_O It's scary how amazing your taste is.

@Billy Batson: GTFO