Bendis tweet about Jean Grey

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#51 Edited by lokith (1 posts) - - Show Bio

Kind of a moot argument. Any character, Jean Grey, Scott Summers, Emma Frost, etc. is only ever as good as the writing and characterization put into them. It's not the fictional character that's to blame it's shoddy writing. It's not rocket science. A good writer can do great things with any of them, a bad one will squelch every one of them without exception. That's just the nature of things. I will say it's bad form to ignore one character and brown nose another just because a writer gives them more time. If the other characters suck by comparison, that's the writer's failing, unless that's the intent in the first place.

#52 Edited by muhabba (293 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel comics, where they not only beat a dead horse, they resurrect it, change the color of it's mane and then beat it again until it's dead again, beat the dead horse come more, resurrect it, change the color of it's tail, beat it until it's dead again, beat the dead horse some more, resurrect it, change it's name, beat it until it dies, bead the dead horse even some're... Sorry, that tweet made my brain cry. My bad. Ima gonna go back and troll Spider-man now. Sorry for the ramble.

#53 Edited by PhoenixEgg (21 posts) - - Show Bio

What's with all the psychopaths on this site?

"Oh my god I hate Jean Grey and I just had to come into the Jean Grey thread to tell you all about it!"

Are the few of you only attention starved or mentally/emotionally deficient in general?

#55 Posted by The_Goddess_of_Chaos (297 posts) - - Show Bio
#56 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

Wow - what is up with all this Jean hate?

If there is anything to complain about, it's how previous writers have treated the mythos of Jean Grey. Associating the Phoenix to her is fine and dandy, but she existed previously without it and can do so again. And even if she doesn't -- even if she somehow gets infused with the Phoenix Force -- so? The story can only be as good as the writer.

She hasn't been part of the 616 in so long and people make it sound like she's been crammed down our throats all this time -- no, it was the idea of her and the non-stop bullsh*t of having her come in between Emma and Scott, or Logan and Scott and that's a shame. Jean Grey is one of the original X-Men, and she was the first female of the group. Just that alone is enough to have me always wanting her around.

What would be different, is if Bendis keeps her alive. What would be different, is having Jean Grey be the young telekinetic/telepath that she is -- be the teenager that she is. That would be great.

I understand why people are sick of the idea of Jean Grey -- it's been done to death - literally -- several times in the X-Men Universe and beyond and I agree, if they travel along that road again, I will have a hard time not stabbing myself in my eye to cope. But I really do like Jean Grey - very much and if they are willing to bring her back into the fold without all that baggage continuing to be all that defines her, then I am up for it.

So far, teenage Jean Grey has been annoying me -- but for all new kinds of reasons, and that's a good thing.

#57 Posted by CheeseSticks (2394 posts) - - Show Bio

I hope she GTFO

#58 Edited by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

@lokith said:

Kind of a moot argument. Any character, Jean Grey, Scott Summers, Emma Frost, etc. is only ever as good as the writing and characterization put into them. It's not the fictional character that's to blame it's shoddy writing. It's not rocket science. A good writer can do great things with any of them, a bad one will squelch every one of them without exception. That's just the nature of things. I will say it's bad form to ignore one character and brown nose another just because a writer gives them more time. If the other characters suck by comparison, that's the writer's failing, unless that's the intent in the first place.

It's not a moot argument. I don't trust Marvel to have a good idea of what to so with Jean Grey. I've seen their track record and what they usually do with characters that become as powerful as she has. So i'd rather her be killed off or placed some where she never comes back then to keep reading All-New X-Men and have to be subjected to another ridiculous storyline involving her. You're right it's not the characters fault but the writers did kind of attach things to her that can't be ignored by future writers, such as the Phoenix, while I agree something COULD be done with the Phoenix that breathes new life into the idea, I don't have the faith in writers that some people still have. Marvel writers have let me down on too many occasions.

@phoenixegg said:

What's with all the psychopaths on this site?

"Oh my god I hate Jean Grey and I just had to come into the Jean Grey thread to tell you all about it!"

Are the few of you only attention starved or mentally/emotionally deficient in general?

What's with you making an incredibly personal judgement about someone because they said something negative about a character? The point of my post wasn't to say that I HATE Jean Grey, it was to say that Marvel doesn't do characters like her justice and rather than having us suffer through some nonsense, i'd rather they just kill her off permanently.

@lykopis said:

If there is anything to complain about, it's how previous writers have treated the mythos of Jean Grey. Associating the Phoenix to her is fine and dandy, but she existed previously without it and can do so again. And even if she doesn't -- even if she somehow gets infused with the Phoenix Force -- so? The story can only be as good as the writer.

Why so optimistic though? People keep saying "the story is only as good as the writer" but even writers I like have written some of my favorite characters poorly as of late. The Phoenix stories haven't been written well since the initial discovery of it. I don't expect the writing to be any better this time around. I'd rather assume it's going to suck and be wrong then to assume it's not and be let down as I almost always am with Marvel these days.

@lykopis said:

She hasn't been part of the 616 in so long and people make it sound like she's been crammed down our throats all this time -- no, it was the idea of her and the non-stop bullsh*t of having her come in between Emma and Scott, or Logan and Scott and that's a shame. Jean Grey is one of the original X-Men, and she was the first female of the group. Just that alone is enough to have me always wanting her around.

She hasn't been crammed down her throats but she IS big enough of a character and important enough to the X-Men mythos that she probably WILL be, they aren't going to bring her back and have her play the background.

@lykopis said:

I understand why people are sick of the idea of Jean Grey -- it's been done to death - literally -- several times in the X-Men Universe and beyond and I agree, if they travel along that road again, I will have a hard time not stabbing myself in my eye to cope. But I really do like Jean Grey - very much and if they are willing to bring her back into the fold without all that baggage continuing to be all that defines her, then I am up for it.

So far, teenage Jean Grey has been annoying me -- but for all new kinds of reasons, and that's a good thing.

Thank you.

Moderator
#59 Edited by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro:

Why so optimistic though? People keep saying "the story is only as good as the writer" but even writers I like have written some of my favorite characters poorly as of late. The Phoenix stories haven't been written well since the initial discovery of it. I don't expect the writing to be any better this time around. I'd rather assume it's going to suck and be wrong then to assume it's not and be let down as I almost always am with Marvel these days.

I really don't know why I am so optimistic -- maybe in some convoluted way Bendis (who is more miss than hit with me) will pull one of his insane re-workings of a character and pull out from Jean an entirely different person that will break the link of Phoenix and her...

Nah. Who am I kidding. The day I trust Marvel to not beat that horse to death a third time, is the day I have lost all sense of reality. Always, always, somehow, someway -- they make it about the Phoenix when it comes to Jean Grey.

She hasn't been crammed down her throats but she IS big enough of a character and important enough to the X-Men mythos that she probably WILL be, they aren't going to bring her back and have her play the background.

I kind of want that to happen to her though -- that's what I mean when I think of something being done to her character that's never been done before. Take away the grandiosity -- leave her as this teenage Jean Grey (although admittedly, Bendis seems to be up and down with her powerset - grrr) to avoid the Phoenix never having been discovered in the first place ....

I am doing it again, aren't I?

:/

I think what might be my problem is since her first "death" we have had Rachel come into play -- (and Cable) and even with Hope to a certain extent which to me are practically avatars of Jean Grey. I don't want to take away from Rachel, I do believe she's been well developed into her own character but there is always that physical reminder -- the green eyes, the red hair, even the Phoenix tattoo on her back -- it feels like Jean never really went away. There was always something in play in the Marvel Universe, whether it was her progeny or the spectre of her getting in between Emma and Scott and Logan and I feel like it's not the character's fault, it's more the writers' fault for just not letting the memory of her go.

It's like trying to call someone but you forgot their number, so you keep trying and keep having to apologize to people until finally you get it right and exclaim your frustration to the person you've been trying to get a hold of, really annoyed and aggravated from the ordeal. To them, they had no idea you've been through and are genuinely confused by the attitude. It's kind of like that with me when people hate on the character. It's not her fault.

I just really love the character and the rich history behind her and the X-Men. From the interactions with Storm and Kitty and Rogue and with the students at the school. Having people not want her around because of that bloody Phoenix legacy just feels unfair to me. So what I really want, is a Jean without the Phoenix. And that's not going to happen.

You're right.

#60 Posted by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

@lykopis

said:

I think what might be my problem is since her first "death" we have had Rachel come into play -- (and Cable) and even with Hope to a certain extent which to me are practically avatars of Jean Grey. I don't want to take away from Rachel, I do believe she's been well developed into her own character but there is always that physical reminder -- the green eyes, the red hair, even the Phoenix tattoo on her back -- it feels like Jean never really went away. There was always something in play in the Marvel Universe, whether it was her progeny or the spectre of her getting in between Emma and Scott and Logan and I feel like it's not the character's fault, it's more the writers' fault for just not letting the memory of her go. N

It's like trying to call someone but you forgot their number, so you keep trying and keep having to apologize to people until finally you get it right and exclaim your frustration to the person you've been trying to get a hold of, really annoyed and aggravated from the ordeal. To them, they had no idea you've been through and are genuinely confused by the attitude. It's kind of like that with me when people hate on the character. It's not her fault.

I just really love the character and the rich history behind her and the X-Men. From the interactions with Storm and Kitty and Rogue and with the students at the school. Having people not want her around because of that bloody Phoenix legacy just feels unfair to me. So what I really want, is a Jean without the Phoenix. And that's not going to happen.

You're right.

I agree with you on Hope & Rachel. I actually like them both. Bringing Jean back would definitely take away from them. If Marvel can balance the power on Marvel Earth or in the Marvel Universe, someone as powerful as Jean, or Sentry or any other powerful character they completely ruined, would actually have a place. Maybe they should make her a Guardian of the Galaxy or something.

Moderator
#61 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio
#62 Edited by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#63 Posted by PhoenixEgg (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@lokith said:

Kind of a moot argument. Any character, Jean Grey, Scott Summers, Emma Frost, etc. is only ever as good as the writing and characterization put into them. It's not the fictional character that's to blame it's shoddy writing. It's not rocket science. A good writer can do great things with any of them, a bad one will squelch every one of them without exception. That's just the nature of things. I will say it's bad form to ignore one character and brown nose another just because a writer gives them more time. If the other characters suck by comparison, that's the writer's failing, unless that's the intent in the first place.

It's not a moot argument. I don't trust Marvel to have a good idea of what to so with Jean Grey. I've seen their track record and what they usually do with characters that become as powerful as she has. So i'd rather her be killed off or placed some where she never comes back then to keep reading All-New X-Men and have to be subjected to another ridiculous storyline involving her. You're right it's not the characters fault but the writers did kind of attach things to her that can't be ignored by future writers, such as the Phoenix, while I agree something COULD be done with the Phoenix that breathes new life into the idea, I don't have the faith in writers that some people still have. Marvel writers have let me down on too many occasions.

@phoenixegg said:

What's with all the psychopaths on this site?

"Oh my god I hate Jean Grey and I just had to come into the Jean Grey thread to tell you all about it!"

Are the few of you only attention starved or mentally/emotionally deficient in general?

What's with you making an incredibly personal judgement about someone because they said something negative about a character? The point of my post wasn't to say that I HATE Jean Grey, it was to say that Marvel doesn't do characters like her justice and rather than having us suffer through some nonsense, i'd rather they just kill her off permanently.

@lykopis said:

If there is anything to complain about, it's how previous writers have treated the mythos of Jean Grey. Associating the Phoenix to her is fine and dandy, but she existed previously without it and can do so again. And even if she doesn't -- even if she somehow gets infused with the Phoenix Force -- so? The story can only be as good as the writer.

Why so optimistic though? People keep saying "the story is only as good as the writer" but even writers I like have written some of my favorite characters poorly as of late. The Phoenix stories haven't been written well since the initial discovery of it. I don't expect the writing to be any better this time around. I'd rather assume it's going to suck and be wrong then to assume it's not and be let down as I almost always am with Marvel these days.

@lykopis said:

She hasn't been part of the 616 in so long and people make it sound like she's been crammed down our throats all this time -- no, it was the idea of her and the non-stop bullsh*t of having her come in between Emma and Scott, or Logan and Scott and that's a shame. Jean Grey is one of the original X-Men, and she was the first female of the group. Just that alone is enough to have me always wanting her around.

She hasn't been crammed down her throats but she IS big enough of a character and important enough to the X-Men mythos that she probably WILL be, they aren't going to bring her back and have her play the background.

@lykopis said:

I understand why people are sick of the idea of Jean Grey -- it's been done to death - literally -- several times in the X-Men Universe and beyond and I agree, if they travel along that road again, I will have a hard time not stabbing myself in my eye to cope. But I really do like Jean Grey - very much and if they are willing to bring her back into the fold without all that baggage continuing to be all that defines her, then I am up for it.

So far, teenage Jean Grey has been annoying me -- but for all new kinds of reasons, and that's a good thing.

Thank you.

You came into the Jean Grey thread to whine/complain/annoy others because you don't like her, a fictional person. That's indicative of a mental imbalance. Sorry, dude. Let me see if I can diagnose you further:

I'd wager you're a zealous Cyclops fan, especially and particularly zealous of the version of Cyclops presented post-Morrison. You're angry because Cyclops never looks like a bad-ass/pimp/cool guy/lady's man/man's man/general or whatever word you use for "ultimate omega extreme WINNING guy" when he's around Jean. That's most likely your main gripe with the character. If I've got your type right, you probably don't care a great deal for any of the female X-Men, but you find Emma Frost the least annoying/best of the girls. You may or may not tolerate Wolverine, but if you like him at all, it's not nearly as much as you like Cyclops. You probably think Cable is super-dee-dooper badass and fun too.

If I've pretty much described you to a "T," the thing that compels you to post in this thread is a mental condition, basically a tick, and you can't help yourself. Jean is a natural irk to you. Your fellow posters will try to be understanding as you attempt to work yourself through this issue.

#64 Edited by HumanRocket (7584 posts) - - Show Bio

As long as it doesn't involve any plans with the pheonix than I'm happy. This series is my fav out their right now just got into it two weeks ago and I'm catching up so I hope it doesn't result in anymore Pheonix force stuff.

#65 Edited by Vance Astro (91123 posts) - - Show Bio

@phoenixegg said:

You came into the Jean Grey thread to whine/complain/annoy others because you don't like her, a fictional person. That's indicative of a mental imbalance. Sorry, dude. Let me see if I can diagnose you further

I came into a Jean Grey thread to say that the character has become stale and Marvel needs to try something new. That's all. If anyone was annoyed by what I said, that's a personal problem. That wasn't my intention when I gave my opinion. This isn't a Jean Grey "respect thread" so however I feel about the character whether it be positive or negative is fair game.

@phoenixegg

said:

I'd wager you're a zealous Cyclops fan, especially and particularly zealous of the version of Cyclops presented post-Morrison. You're angry because Cyclops never looks like a bad-ass/pimp/cool guy/lady's man/man's man/general or whatever word you use for "ultimate omega extreme WINNING guy" when he's around Jean. That's most likely your main gripe with the character. If I've got your type right, you probably don't care a great deal for any of the female X-Men, but you find Emma Frost the least annoying/best of the girls.

Well you'd be completely making this up. Not only am I not that much of a Cyclops fan but if you actually READ my posts you'd see that my beef is actually with Marvel as a company and not Jean Grey. Your analysis of me not liking female members of the X-Men would ALSO be completely wrong considering that MOST of my favorite characters from the series are female. In fact alot of my favorite characters in GENERAL are female. My argument NEVER had anything to do with Cyclops, and in fact I didn't bring Cyclops up or even Emma Frost, other users did. I don't dislike Jean because I think Cyclops is a better character, I do in fact believe that but that isn't why I don't like Jean, I gave my reasons several times, you chose to MAKE-UP what my problem is with the character.

@phoenixegg said:

You may or may not tolerate Wolverine, but if you like him at all, it's not nearly as much as you like Cyclops. You probably think Cable is super-dee-dooper badass and fun too.

More false assumptions. It's always been Wolverine>Cyclops for me. In fact Wolverine WAS my favorite character at one point.

@phoenixegg said:

If I've pretty much described you to a "T," the thing that compels you to post in this thread is a mental condition, basically a tick, and you can't help yourself. Jean is a natural irk to you. Your fellow posters will try to be understanding as you attempt to work yourself through this issue.

You didn't didn't describe me to a "T", you made a bunch of baseless assumptions and pretty much just proved you didn't read any of my posts. You're also being incredibly disrespectful and condescending with this whole "mental condition" thing you're trying to push and it needs to stop.

Moderator
#66 Edited by PhoenixEgg (21 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro said:

You didn't didn't describe me to a "T", you made a bunch of baseless assumptions and pretty much just proved you didn't read any of my posts. You're also being incredibly disrespectful and condescending with this whole "mental condition" thing you're trying to push and it needs to stop.

You're the one trolling the Jean Grey forum, dude. I was just being annoying back. You get what you give.

You're a moderator, right? Act like it.

#67 Edited by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio
#68 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro:

yeah I agree your not acting like a moderator phoenix egg told youuuuu!!

#69 Edited by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

Croak her please. I've been sick of her since I've heard of her. She usually just seems to be the prize in the contest between cyclops and wolverine

#70 Posted by mechem_93 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@dayvid3: If you are so sick of her then don't read about her, it's not like she's in every x-book ala wolverine

#71 Edited by Dayvid3 (807 posts) - - Show Bio

@mechem_93: easier said than done. Perhaps I still like other characters in the book, or want to keep up on the storyline

#72 Edited by kai200995 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Well I honestly can't wait to see what comes next. Bendis is a wicked sharp writer in characterizing his characters. People don't like Jean because they don't know who she is or their just internet trolls. Now we know Teen-Jean wants to change the world. Our Jean believed in Charles dream and didn't have any qualms literally fighting for it, and let's not forget her biggest flaw; anger and expectations. Given this characterization and Bendis applying a young Jean with different circumstances who knows what role and character this girl will become. I love a good topic and a good writer.

#73 Posted by strejda (12 posts) - - Show Bio

@dayvid3: I don't see how is that an argument FOR killing Jean, instead of doing something new with her. I think stories that focus on her as a person are actually pretty damn good.

#74 Posted by mechem_93 (122 posts) - - Show Bio

@dayvid3: yeah thats fine but I'm just saying....all new xmen is all about teen Jean and Bendis said he has big plans for her. I guess you'll have to get use to her if you want to keep reading that book...

#75 Posted by njones5 (234 posts) - - Show Bio

@vance_astro: really its a comic book character get over yourself she DOES NOT EXIST

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