Sons of the Bat

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Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

There has been a rumor goin' around for a while about The Robin's DCnU comic book...(not the R&B group). So I wanted to bring more attention to it, and tell my reasons on why it would be a good move. First off...The Robin's book...(or what I like to call "Sons of the Bat")...would actually be a great book. It' s doubtful that any of the Ex-Robin's books would get canceled to make this because it's lookin' like this is goin' to take over the current Batman and Robin, book because of poor sells. But Batman and Robin #10 brings up a new direction in which the book can go.

It also makes more sense to do somethin' never done before, and have a book that explores the relationship Bruce's ACTUAL kids...

(he never adopted Cassandra, he just said he was and then "died". And when he got back, he felt that startin' a group of grown men dressed as bats was more important than upholdin' a promise. And he NEVER adopted Stephanie...didn't even hint at it).

Now since Red Hood and the Outlaws 5 Jason has let go of his grudges against Bruce. He's never had a real hatred for anyone on the Bat-Family...(except Tim, which I'll explain later)...so the doubt that he'll want to be around them is just the dumbest excuse to not do this.

and secondly...Good books sell. Drama, mystery, family relationships, action, and comedy is what you'll get from a book with Jason, Grayson, Damian, and Tim as the main cast.

You see I'll start with my favorite to my least.

JASON

-Grayson- Jason has a brotherly relationship with Grayson regardless of what people may think. He never once went to find Grayson for a fight. He doesn't hate him, he was just upset at the little it seemed that Grayson cared that he died. And after he came back...he STILL wasn't welcomed with open arms from his brother, which is why their relationship was so strained. But he never hated the man.

-Damian- He doesn't too particularly like Damian...but he doesn't hate him either. He finds it fun to mess with the kid.

-Tim- Now Tim is where it gets confusin' to fans. Jason has never view Tim as his brother...only as his replacement. Jason died before Tim even became a comic character. Then when he got back, Tim was Robin. These 2 have never had a sit down talk...in fact...the only times that they ever talked were before, durin', and after fights...(which Jason won all of by the way). So puttin' these 2 around each other already makes things interestin' enough to make me want to buy the comic.

GRAYSON

-Jason- He's always been tryin' to help Jason BECAUSE that's his brother. So their relationship would have a little friction at first...but would ease down by/before issue 3.

-Damian- Damian is more of Grayson's son than he is Bruces. Grayson even furthered Damian's trainin' into bein' Robin. So there're no problems here.

-Tim- They're brothers...again no problems here.

DAMIAN

-Jason- Doesn't care much for him, and in fact...would probably grow to like him over shared dislike over Tim.

-Grayson- Grayson is the person Damian feels closest to in the Bat-Family, so this relationship suffers no problems.

-Tim- Damian doesn't feel that Tim has earned a right to be a part of his family and harbors a strong dislike for him. The snarky remarks, and mischievous pranks that Damian would do to Tim would actually liven up the book...(on top of the awesomeness that is the book itself).

TIM

-Jason- borderline hatred for Jason.

-Grayson- His favorite brother...(probably because Jason and Damian don't like him).

-Damian- A thorn in his side.

So a team book about brothers with strained/bad relationships havin' to go on missions together would be awesome. Let along that it's the 4 of them. And then add in that THIS could be the way that Cassandra and Stephanie get into the DCnU...and you've got yourself one of the best team books to hit the shelves...EVER!! I mean really...The possibility of Jason, Grayson, Damian, and Tim runnin' into Cassandra, and Stephanie is more likely to happen with the 4 of them all together. 'Cause, let's face it...Batman ain't gonna do it.

But whatever...I for 1 will look forward to the day Sons of the Bat becomes an actual book. There's entirely too much good stuff goin' on between the 4 of them for this idea to NOT work amazingly.

#1 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry:

B&R doesn't have poor sales, it's been in the top 15 every week since the New 52 started, and it in the top 10 for the third week in a row i believe. Their is no way that DC are going to cancel this book. And Cass is legally a Wayne (although that's neither here nor there, since she isn't a robin).

#2 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15132 posts) - - Show Bio

all I have to say is HELL YEAH!!!!! even though I don't think Jason would be in the book because he's a killer

#3 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (12616 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: I have said that the killing thing could stop, Jason i killing more because he is pissed off with Batman, that actually because he wants too.

Also that does not mean, Jason haves to lose his weapons.

#4 Edited by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

Tim's and Jason hate for each other lessened after Tim broke Jason out of jail. Also didn't DC dismiss rumors about the Robins book?

#5 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15132 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: yeah well It could but he wouldnt be the same, I always liked Jason because he has his own moral compass and his own personality I wouldnt like him as much if that changed, I mean that's just my opinion. and if he was to be in this series I wouldnt want him to be friends with the other Robins

#6 Posted by barryallen (34 posts) - - Show Bio

If this happens it'll be awesome but its something i'd like to see if say batman gets badly injured again, they could do this instead of fighting for the cowl!

#7 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (12616 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective: Jason mani problem is he is getting popular, i think that pass time with his family and i say it as a small joke, will help him.

#8 Posted by Dark_Vengeance_ (15132 posts) - - Show Bio

@DeathpooltheT1000: HA, yeah I can already see Jason as a family frienly chracter with some new name like the cardinal or somenthing, and Damian and him having experinced big brother speeches about killing

#9 Posted by daredevil21134 (12705 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@DeathpooltheT1000: yeah well It could but he wouldnt be the same, I always liked Jason because he has his own moral compass and his own personality I wouldnt like him as much if that changed, I mean that's just my opinion. and if he was to be in this series I wouldnt want him to be friends with the other Robins

Me too

#10 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (12616 posts) - - Show Bio

@DarkKnightDetective said:

@DeathpooltheT1000: HA, yeah I can already see Jason as a family frienly chracter with some new name like the cardinal or somenthing, and Damian and him having experinced big brother speeches about killing

Also just think all the memories about Batman as a father.

#11 Edited by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

OH...oh-oh...OOOHH!! So I get no thanks for NOT insultin' Tim...that's nice. Naw, I'm just jokin'. The reality is that this book is what DC needs right now to bounce off the fame of these characters, and bring in some of the others that have been M.I.A. in the new universe. I mean, Cassandra Cain, Wally West, Donna Troy, Rachel Roth, and Stephanie Brown are the only characters I ever hear people talkin' about that they miss. And all of them know at least 1 of the Sons of the Bat.

So this book is lookin' better and better because of the fact that they have the best chance to bring other great missin' characters into the DCnU.

#12 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

JASON

-Grayson- Jason has a brotherly relationship with Grayson regardless of what people may think

Its not brotherly. It has the potential to be, but there relationship has (due to retcons mostly) had quite a lot of friction as Todd never really respected Grayson as much as he should during the former's run as Robin.

.He doesn't hate him, he was just upset at the little it seemed that Grayson cared that he died.

Grayson wasn't informed that he died.

And after he came back...he STILL wasn't welcomed with open arms from his brother, which is why their relationship was so strained. But he never hated the man.

Grayson offered many a time to make him part of his family.

#13 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry: Thank you for not insulting Tim, Seriously man good step in the right direction

#14 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp: I was speakin' from Jason's point of view...just like I did with the rest of them. And Grayson only offered him a place in the family IF he changed...that's not welcomin' someone with open arms. If Grayson said that he didn't care what Jason is doin'...he's still his brother, then that would be welcomin' him with open arms.

@BlackArmor: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa...WHOA!! This was a serious topic about the overall team...that's why I didn't insult him. But make no mistakes...I STILL don't like the character. Hahaa...

#15 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry: Fair enough

#16 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: Thanks for clarifying that Cass is a Wayne. I almost believed the OP for a moment.

#17 Posted by PeterParked (61 posts) - - Show Bio

Never heard these rumours, but sounds good man, I would buy.

#18 Posted by batmanary (790 posts) - - Show Bio

Also, Stephanie's mom and dad (Cluemaster) are alive, so...Bruce adopting her would be....awkward, at best.

#19 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

No...I only included Stephanie not bein' adopted, because some people keep sayin' that she's one of Bruce's kids...AND SHE'S NOT!!

@Shotgun: Afro's lyin'. 1 author made a statement about it 1 time. But no-one else pushed it, or agreed with it in any way, as it was only talked about that one time. There was also no conformation from DC about it neither, so it was basically overstepped. But like Afro said...that's neither here nor there since this is a new universe.

#20 Posted by Afro_Warrior (1120 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@Shotgun: Afro's lyin'. 1 author made a statement about it 1 time. But no-one else pushed it, or agreed with it in any way, as it was only talked about that one time. There was also no conformation from DC about it neither, so it was basically overstepped. But like Afro said...that's neither here nor there since this is a new universe.

Not a lie. It was in her miniseries and it was reiterated in an issue of the Outsiders i think. I don't know the issue, but i do have the scan.

Cassandra Cain is a Wayne.

#21 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Afro_Warrior: I guess that's where we have a difference in opinion. To you that may say that she was adopted, but to me...that's not sayin' he adopted her. It's like if I said ..."skittles are tasty"...that doesn't mean that I ate any skittles, that just means that I'm aware that of them bein' tasty. Meanin' that Grayson was aware that Bruce was goin' to adopt Cassandra, and at first it didn't sit well hearin' of it. But it in no way says he did it yet. But again, the past means nothin' as she's not in the new universe yet so we don't know how she's gonna become part of the family this time.

Hint hint...Jason&Cassandra...hint hint...(looking around)...Hey, wishful thinkin'...a man can dream.

#22 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

She is.

#23 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

To you. But it's irrelevant in the new universe.

#24 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (12616 posts) - - Show Bio

To be a Batson mean Batman is your father, not that a document says he is your father.

Families are made by love and a connection, not by the goverment.

#25 Edited by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd like this. Hell, if they wrote a great story, they could probably show the bigger public that Robins are no longer silly children in pixie boots who have no place in a serious Batman LA movie.

I don't think Tim favoring Dick is because he has a strained relationship with Jason and Damian. Like you said, Damian feels closest to him in the Bat Family (probably even more than Bruce, at least before TN52 - I haven't read it much). And Dick is just someone who seems to get along with everyone. Either way, you could cram in some great dialogue between them all.

Jason seems to have a bitter rivarly with Dick; were they ever actually brothers?

#26 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no way you can't like this. Everyone likes at least one character of the Sons of the Bat. And with the added inclusion of findin' all the missed missin' characters...you're left with just AWESOME!!

Quick...everyone mail DC for them to do this.

#27 Posted by entropy_aegis (15460 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shotgun said:

@Afro_Warrior: Thanks for clarifying that Cass is a Wayne. I almost believed the OP for a moment.

She is'nt,Bruce said that he would like to adopt her but RIP happened.

#28 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: That's what I said. Then right after R.I.P., Batman Inc. happened. So when did he ever get the time to adopt her?

But again...none of that matters in the new 52. Because as of now...Batman doesn't even know who a Cassandra Cain is.

#29 Posted by daredevil21134 (12705 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@Shotgun said:

@Afro_Warrior: Thanks for clarifying that Cass is a Wayne. I almost believed the OP for a moment.

She is'nt,Bruce said that he would like to adopt her but RIP happened.

I thought she was adopted in the mini series that Adam Beechman wrote

#30 Posted by X9 (767 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, just one thing I'm not following... there's going to be a Robins Book or it's just a rumor/ fans hope?

#31 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@X9 said:

Ok, just one thing I'm not following... there's going to be a Robins Book or it's just a rumor/ fans hope?

Mostly speculation...even leanin' towards "Completely Made Up".

#32 Posted by X9 (767 posts) - - Show Bio

Hum... right.

I don't think there's going to be a book like this, but it's good to dream anyway. It'd be awesome.

#33 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

That's what I've been sayin'. Sons of the Bat kicks SO MUCH ASS!!

#34 Posted by UrbanChill (232 posts) - - Show Bio

awesome idea for a book i love robin stories alot already so this would be amazing to see them all interacting together

#35 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

If only DC would just get on it.

#36 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@Croaker said:

Jason seems to have a bitter rivarly with Dick; were they ever actually brothers?

yeah that was my understanding f their relationship

#37 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

While you have done well to not outright insult Tim, you still need to clean up some few things. 
 

and after fights...(which Jason won all of by the way)

Unnecessary to include. You're baiting people, which is no different to insulting Tim, really, as you're encouraging people to give you a reason to insult Tim.
 

His favorite brother...(probably because Jason and Damian don't like him)

Unnecessary and also misinformed. Grayson and Tim have the best relationship because they both respect the ideals of Batman. They aren't willing to kill, they don't outright intend to piss off Bruce (sure, Dick is the playful disobedient type, but he would never outright step on Bruce's ideals). They also respect each other, unlike Damian who is too young to understand what true respect is and Jason who is indifferent in the whole issue. 
 
Also, as another user has stated, remember that Tim tried to establish a bond between himself and Jason by getting him out of jail. But then Jason repaid the favour by killing a dozen people dressed as Batman, thereby spitting on Bruce's ideals.
 
Not trying to bait you, I just think you need to be careful.
#38 Posted by Primmaster64 (21073 posts) - - Show Bio

Everytime Jason and Dick are in the same book...I see them fight about something.

#39 Posted by BlackArmor (6138 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect: Noooo we actually have relative peace for once we don't need this to turn into another Tim vs. Jason thread just let the under the radar insults fly for once and duke it out with him in a PM instead of the main thread

#40 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Primmaster64 said:

Everytime Jason and Dick are in the same book...I see them fight about something.

They've also worked together too.

@RainEffect said:

While you have done well to not outright insult Tim, you still need to clean up some few things.

and after fights...(which Jason won all of by the way)

Unnecessary to include. You're baiting people, which is no different to insulting Tim, really, as you're encouraging people to give you a reason to insult Tim.

His favorite brother...(probably because Jason and Damian don't like him)

Unnecessary and also misinformed. Grayson and Tim have the best relationship because they both respect the ideals of Batman. They aren't willing to kill, they don't outright intend to piss off Bruce (sure, Dick is the playful disobedient type, but he would never outright step on Bruce's ideals). They also respect each other, unlike Damian who is too young to understand what true respect is and Jason who is indifferent in the whole issue. Also, as another user has stated, remember that Tim tried to establish a bond between himself and Jason by getting him out of jail. But then Jason repaid the favour by killing a dozen people dressed as Batman, thereby spitting on Bruce's ideals. Not trying to bait you, I just think you need to be careful.

I said what I said because it was true...it was in no way intended to start anything...it was just true. Statin' that Jason has beatin' Tim in all their fights only adds to the layers that the characters have.

And Grayson IS Tim's favorite Brother. I didn't say that the reason WAS that Damian and Jason don't like him, I was sayin' it could probably be. Jason, Damian, and Tim have bad relationships with each other because they don't like each other much. So it's impossible for Jason and Damian to be top contenders for Tim's favorite brother BECAUSE of them not likin' each other. If they did...it would be different.

@BlackArmor said:

@Croaker said:

Jason seems to have a bitter rivarly with Dick; were they ever actually brothers?

yeah that was my understanding f their relationship

Every younger brother has a rivalry with their older brother...even if the older brother doesn't know about it. That's actually one of the things that makes them more brotherly.

#41 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@BlackArmor said:

@RainEffect: Noooo we actually have relative peace for once we don't need this to turn into another Tim vs. Jason thread just let the under the radar insults fly for once and duke it out with him in a PM instead of the main thread

Truly said...thanks.

#42 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio
@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@BlackArmor said:

@RainEffect: Noooo we actually have relative peace for once we don't need this to turn into another Tim vs. Jason thread just let the under the radar insults fly for once and duke it out with him in a PM instead of the main thread

Truly said...thanks.

Oh, I'm not trying to start anything, trust me. I've been gone for the past 2 months, so I was just hoping that RMC has grown up from his consistent trashing of Tim. From what I've seen, you mostly have, mate.
#43 Edited by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@RainEffect said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@BlackArmor said:

@RainEffect: Noooo we actually have relative peace for once we don't need this to turn into another Tim vs. Jason thread just let the under the radar insults fly for once and duke it out with him in a PM instead of the main thread

Truly said...thanks.

Oh, I'm not trying to start anything, trust me. I've been gone for the past 2 months, so I was just hoping that RMC has grown up from his consistent trashing of Tim. From what I've seen, you mostly have, mate.

...No I haven't. This is just somethin' that I want to happen. And it's such a great idea that I know others want it to happen as well. So a serious topic needs to be taken seriously. That is all.

But mark my words..."When the time is right, Tim WILL be insulted". Hahaa...

#44 Posted by Croaker (296 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok..so rivalry may have been the wrong word. I meant that doesn't Jason pretty much hate Dick? When Blüdhaven blew up, he taunted Bruce about it. He also seemed to resent that Batman wanted Jason to be like Dick as Robin (made him dye his hair black etc.).

#45 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@entropy_aegis: That's what I said. Then right after R.I.P., Batman Inc. happened. So when did he ever get the time to adopt her?

But again...none of that matters in the new 52. Because as of now...Batman doesn't even know who a Cassandra Cain is.

The man is Batman. He has time for everything. Besides, if Bruce gave his word that he would adopt her, I'm positive that he carried it out.

#46 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@Shotgun said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@entropy_aegis: That's what I said. Then right after R.I.P., Batman Inc. happened. So when did he ever get the time to adopt her?

But again...none of that matters in the new 52. Because as of now...Batman doesn't even know who a Cassandra Cain is.

The man is Batman. He has time for everything. Besides, if Bruce gave his word that he would adopt her, I'm positive that he carried it out.

It's irrelevant...new universe now.@Croaker said:

Ok..so rivalry may have been the wrong word. I meant that doesn't Jason pretty much hate Dick? When Blüdhaven blew up, he taunted Bruce about it. He also seemed to resent that Batman wanted Jason to be like Dick as Robin (made him dye his hair black etc.).

That made him envious , and rebellious...but he still never hated him. If anything that made him mad at Bruce for not recognizin' that Jason and Grayson were NOT the same person. Which was probably why he disobeyed Bruce so much...to show that he wasn't his prized boy wonder.

#47 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

That made him envious , and rebellious...but he still never hated him. If anything that made him mad at Bruce for not recognizin' that Jason and Grayson were NOT the same person. Which was probably why he disobeyed Bruce so much...to show that he wasn't his prized boy wonder.

He did recognize that they weren't the same person. Also, Jason has no love for Grayson, which Grayson does.

#48 Edited by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

That made him envious , and rebellious...but he still never hated him. If anything that made him mad at Bruce for not recognizin' that Jason and Grayson were NOT the same person. Which was probably why he disobeyed Bruce so much...to show that he wasn't his prized boy wonder.

He did recognize that they weren't the same person. Also, Jason has no love for Grayson, which Grayson does.

I wouldn't say that, as out of the other 3 Jason has a better connection with Grayson, than he does with Damian or Tim. Jason Hated Tim...(don't know where he stands with him in the new universe), disliked Damian...(still don't know if this holds), and seemed to like Grayson...but didn't like bein' ordered around by him.

I want to see when Jason and Grayson finally meet up again, and Grayson sees that Jason is wearin' his costume.

#49 Posted by ReVamp (22798 posts) - - Show Bio

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

That made him envious , and rebellious...but he still never hated him. If anything that made him mad at Bruce for not recognizin' that Jason and Grayson were NOT the same person. Which was probably why he disobeyed Bruce so much...to show that he wasn't his prized boy wonder.

He did recognize that they weren't the same person. Also, Jason has no love for Grayson, which Grayson does.

I wouldn't say that, as out of the other 3 Jason has a better connection with Grayson, than he does with Damian or Tim. Jason Hated Tim...(don't know where he stands with him in the new universe), disliked Damian...(still don't know if this holds), and seemed to like Grayson...but didn't like bein' ordered around by him.

I want to see when Jason and Grayson finally meet up again, and Grayson sees that Jason is wearin' his costume.

Yes, best connection, but that doesn't say much. He didn't respect Grayson at all when he was a robin, or at least didn't show it.

#50 Posted by Rabbit_May_Cry (299 posts) - - Show Bio

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

That made him envious , and rebellious...but he still never hated him. If anything that made him mad at Bruce for not recognizin' that Jason and Grayson were NOT the same person. Which was probably why he disobeyed Bruce so much...to show that he wasn't his prized boy wonder.

He did recognize that they weren't the same person. Also, Jason has no love for Grayson, which Grayson does.

I wouldn't say that, as out of the other 3 Jason has a better connection with Grayson, than he does with Damian or Tim. Jason Hated Tim...(don't know where he stands with him in the new universe), disliked Damian...(still don't know if this holds), and seemed to like Grayson...but didn't like bein' ordered around by him.

I want to see when Jason and Grayson finally meet up again, and Grayson sees that Jason is wearin' his costume.

Yes, best connection, but that doesn't say much. He didn't respect Grayson at all when he was a robin, or at least didn't show it.

True. But after Jason became Red Hood, there seems to be a lot of respect from the both of them TO the both of them.

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