Wait-wait-wait...Do you guy's keep forgettin' that just because Tim is smart, doesn't mean Jason isn't? So far, all I've seen was people say the only way Tim could beat Jason is by out thinkin' him. But you forget...a strategist ALWAYS has a plan.  Tim isn't a natural strategist like Jason is. In fact, THAT'S the thing he's better at than the rest of the Batfamily (besides the killin'). You can't out strategize a natural strategist.
 
And I'm pretty sure that Jason knows how Tim fights, but I FULLY doubt that Tim will catch on to the fightin' styles of Jason for 2 reasons. 1 bein' that Tim lacks the experience to think of that and do it. And 2, Jason hasn't fought Tim with ALL the skills he knows.  Jason's Capoeira style has yet to make a debut (along with other styles). Tim can't possibly learn all of what Jason can do faster than Jason can learn what Tim can do. 'Cause, like I said earlier...Tim hasn't mastered a damn. Pretty high degree in things, but no mastery. And what Tim knows...Jason already mastered.
 
The mind over matter thing only works for people like Spider-Man. He has traits that HE'S more superior in (like his agility), so he utilizes that to find a way to win against stronger opponents. Tim on the other hand has no superior skill...JUST Intelligence. And as we've seen multiple times on the battleground of nerds vs bullies...smarts will ALWAYS lose with nothin' to back it up.
 
Furthermore, Jason's fightin' abilities are constantly compared to those of Grayson's. Most comic book fans put them on equal stand points because they have traits over each other...but when it comes down to it, they're damn near identical. Since battle for the cowl, Jason has been constantly fightin' Grayson...you honestly think that if he goes back to fightin' Tim...Tim has a BETTER chance of winnin'? Point blank, if Tim can't do anything against Grayson...he will NEVER win a fight against Jason. And so far...Tim can't do a damn against Grayson.
 
@RainEffect: 
And just to let you know...I cap it in bold because that's how I ACTUALLY talk in real life. I emphasize certain words that (to some people) shouldn't be emphasized.
 
@ComicStooge: 
Do you not read...or are you just skimmin' over facts that I say? It doesn't matter if Tim is an all-around fighter because Jason is better at everything that Tim has to offer except detective work. AGAIN...that doesn't mean that Jason is some dumb brute, because Jason himself is pretty smart.
 
Let's put it this way Strength...Jason is a great deal stronger than Tim.
Speed...Jason is faster than Tim.
Agility...Jason stands far above Tim.
Endurance...Jason has been through more than Tim while STILL pullin' off victories.
And do I NEED to mention the hand-to-hand again? 'Cause that's all the way Jason.
Tim loses! It's not speculation...it's fact. As I've said earlier...if the writers were writin' an actual depiction of  a Jason vs Tim fight...Tim would have BEEN dead. Popularity saves his ass from the fire each time.

@RainEffect: He doesn't read, so I'm done typin' to him for the moment. And I also agree that Grayson is the best For his extreme agility, experience, and that he has no mental weakness like Jason does. But for some reason SOMEONE (@ComicStooge) can't seem to get the simple logic. Tim HASN'T improved much in his physical traits. While Jason has been fightin' the best former Robin for like a year. And still has yet to display ALL of his fightin' skills.
 
I know you now understand, but someone doesn't...TIM CAN'T WIN!! That's why the rivalries in the male Batfamily are Grayson vs Jason...and Tim vs Damian.

@daredevil21134: WOW!! It feels nice to agree. I mean is it true? Did we finally step into a world where threads DON'T turn into our arguments? Oh no...The twilight zone is REAL!! Hahaa...
 
@RainEffect: 
I'm sorry it's late but Jason and Tim's first fight was in Titans Tower...Jason won. Then the battle for the cowl fight...where Jason won. I know that they had a fight when Tim was Robin, and Jason was Red Hood. But I don't know when, and that fight was interrupted by some guy in Jason's Red Robin costume. The guy shot Jason in the leg, and Jason tried to shoot him back, but Tim jumped in the way and got shot instead. Tim lost ALL of the fights.

@daredevil21134: See...now you're just doin' it for fun.

@daredevil21134: WOW!! It feels nice to agree. I mean is it true? Did we finally step into a world where threads DON'T turn into our arguments? Oh no...The twilight zone is REAL!! Hahaa...
 
@RainEffect: 
I'm sorry it's late but Jason and Tim's first fight was in Titans Tower...Jason won. Then the battle for the cowl fight...where Jason won. I know that they had a fight when Tim was Robin, and Jason was Red Hood. But I don't know when, and that fight was interrupted by some guy in Jason's Red Robin costume. The guy shot Jason in the leg, and Jason tried to shoot him back, but Tim jumped in the way and got shot instead. Tim lost ALL of the fights.

And you know what? Even if Jason is better (which in my opinion, he isn't) Tim was still a better Robin then he ever was. Tim is also a better character and his book(s) are better then anything Jason has been in.

@Rabbit_May_Cry: 
 
First of all, Tim has beaten Jason during Search For A Hero. 
 
Second of all, what the hell are you talking about? I'm not downgrading anyone. I've never seen Jason pull of any impressive speed or agility feats, Tim has plenty. He's been able to fight people with the touch of death, he's fought both Ra's Al Ghul and Catman. When has Jason not fought Tim to the best of his abilities? In their latest fight (I think BFtC) Jason had to use underhanded tactics, ambushing and the environment to beat Tim, while Tim was wearing a costume that was heavier then what he was used to.
 
Second of all, how can I see how dumb I sound?  Thirdly, what you're saying about the SHIELD Agent and Frank Castle makes no sense at all. Frank Castle has only mastered one fighting syle Nash Ryu Ju Jitsu, though he is skilled in others.   Tim also didn't have his bo-staff in BFtC would've made a difference.

i really don't think tim would school jason and didnt jason train with people who were on the same level of the people who trained batman just sayin

@ReVamp: No, we handled the discussion, and came to the conclusion that Jason is superior to Tim. Meanin' that Jason wins. There were SO many factors to prove this that it was unbelievable that it was up for discussion. So you didn't miss much...but you can always go back over the thread and comment if you disagree.

@ReVamp: I doubt it because of the little brother affect... NO-ONE wants to lose to their little brother. And why would Jason chase Tim? Tim's the one that believes that he's the better hero.
 
Now to me, I agree that Jason is the better hero because he handles things the way I would. You can't just keep sendin' people who will KILL people to jail. Because they break out and KILL people. Basically if you kill 1 person that was goin' to kill 37 people... then you saved 37 lives. But if you arrest a person that was gonna kill 37 people...the person can STILL break out of jail and kill those 37 people...h ow many lives did you save?...NONE.  S orry, not tryin' to start another discussion, I just wanted to say that.

@ReVamp: Oh that's the ease. Like I said before, Jason's the better strategist. Whatever plan Tim tries to use on him, wouldn't be good enough that Jason couldn't use it to help himself. THAT'S what natural strategist do. Plan plans inside of other plans.

@ReVamp: No...Jason always has plans set in his plans. Intelligence doesn't always equal great strategies. There are brilliant people who couldn't plan their way out of an open door. But natural strategist make plans even when there's no need for a plan. That's just how their minds work. And Tim doesn't have that.  Although I'm not sayin' that Tim wouldn't be able to hatch a plan...I'm just sayin' that Jason is ALWAYS plannin'. So Tim's plan may not hold up too well.

@ReVamp: I actually don't have them mix because Jason is always portrayed as the man with the plan. That stemmed  AFTER he came back to life. So as Robin he wasn't much of a strategist, but as Red Hood, that's basically what he does. I didn't know what Ra's said ...('cause like I said)...I don't follow any of Tim's books. But what are strategies anyway?...detailed plans.

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp: I actually don't have them mix because Jason is always portrayed as the man with the plan. That stemmed  AFTER he came back to life. So as Robin he wasn't much of a strategist, but as Red Hood, that's basically what he does. I didn't know what Ra's said ...('cause like I said)...I don't follow any of Tim's books. But what are strategies anyway?...detailed plans.

He's not. I follow all of Jason's appearances (within reason) post ressurection and I really think you haven't gotten the character. When is he portrayed as a man of Strategy. (No Lost Days)

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp: I actually don't have them mix because Jason is always portrayed as the man with the plan. That stemmed  AFTER he came back to life. So as Robin he wasn't much of a strategist, but as Red Hood, that's basically what he does. I didn't know what Ra's said ...('cause like I said)...I don't follow any of Tim's books. But what are strategies anyway?...detailed plans.

He's not. I follow all of Jason's appearances (within reason) post ressurection and I really think you haven't gotten the character. When is he portrayed as a man of Strategy. (No Lost Days)

Read his appearance in Green Arrow,he is a careful planner,and his latest appearance in Batman and Robin.Alot of the times he fights he has the area trapped.Another example is when he fought Tim,he broke into the Titan and took out Cyborg and Beast boy and gassed Raven.

And I forgot to add that Jason mastered strategy trainin' from a master strategist. So JEA...that puts him higher as a strategist.

And I forgot to add that Jason mastered strategy trainin' from a master strategist. So JEA...that puts him higher as a strategist.

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp: I actually don't have them mix because Jason is always portrayed as the man with the plan. That stemmed  AFTER he came back to life. So as Robin he wasn't much of a strategist, but as Red Hood, that's basically what he does. I didn't know what Ra's said ...('cause like I said)...I don't follow any of Tim's books. But what are strategies anyway?...detailed plans.

He's not. I follow all of Jason's appearances (within reason) post ressurection and I really think you haven't gotten the character. When is he portrayed as a man of Strategy. (No Lost Days)

Read his appearance in Green Arrow,he is a careful planner,and his latest appearance in Batman and Robin.Alot of the times he fights he has the area trapped.Another example is when he fought Tim,he broke into the Titan and took out Cyborg and Beast boy and gassed Raven.

@daredevil21134 said:

@ReVamp said:

@Rabbit_May_Cry said:

@ReVamp: I actually don't have them mix because Jason is always portrayed as the man with the plan. That stemmed  AFTER he came back to life. So as Robin he wasn't much of a strategist, but as Red Hood, that's basically what he does. I didn't know what Ra's said ...('cause like I said)...I don't follow any of Tim's books. But what are strategies anyway?...detailed plans.

He's not. I follow all of Jason's appearances (within reason) post ressurection and I really think you haven't gotten the character. When is he portrayed as a man of Strategy. (No Lost Days)

Read his appearance in Green Arrow,he is a careful planner,and his latest appearance in Batman and Robin.Alot of the times he fights he has the area trapped.Another example is when he fought Tim,he broke into the Titan and took out Cyborg and Beast boy and gassed Raven.

Thank you kindly.
 
@ReVamp: All of what he said, plus...Jason hasn't interacted with anyone without the added purpose of accomplishin' a higher overall goal. Hell...the only reason why he became Batman was to get Grayson to realize that he should be Batman. The Green Arrow thing was also a plan for Mia...and his Batman and Robin thing was to still stop crime, but with the overall plan to make Grayson a better Batman.  Come to think of it He has a lot of plans to help Grayson. Wasn't the idea of Jason bein' Nightwing a plan to get Grayson to become Nightwing again? I don't remember.

Tim Drake is the best Detective among all of the Robins. But thats it, when it come strategy, experience, combat. He is behind Jason, Dick.. You have to consider that Tim is younger than Jason. Its only natural for him to not being able to beat his "older brother in a fight". 

@ReVamp: Jea he did...H e even said that he was doin' what Grayson was suppose to when he was bein' Batman.  Face it, Tim has NEVER had any plan that matched even the worst thought out plan of Jason's. Tim isn't Jason's equal in anything. Although, Ti m is smarter, he isn't a better strategist than Jason is.

I feel Tim is being a bit under played because of personal views on the character.  I've followed Tim his entire life in comics and I've seen what he's been through.  To me personally he is the most fleshed out character in the batman family.  Dick was the first and so he is the most familiar by default and Jason was basically meant to be a clone of Dick, them being older than Tim Drake should play a factor because they have more experience and are physically stronger due to them being of a more advanced age then Tim.  I just personally feel like the only disadvantages Tim has is his age in this topic.  I also believe he would be just as good as any former Robin if he was with batman and extensively  trained as long as they were, except he would stomp all three of them in raw detective potential.  As far as comics go Tim's character had the most depth of all Robin's and the most realistic situations for a young boy with such a big responsibility and secret on his shoulders, hiding things like constant bruises from his friends, family and teachers.  Trying to maintain relationships, being sexually aroused by older heroins, out of all the Robin's he is just a more relative character.  Also it should be noted that he is the longest standing robin while Grayson was sort of fast forwarded in order to facilitate his Nightwing persona and Jason Todd was killed off by fan's.  It also should be stated that he is the only Robin to ever get his own series.  His ongoing series was a good one he did everything from team up with the Huntress to taking on the likes of the KG beast and Shiva.  Tim Drake is not necessarily a weak Robin he's a different kind of robin and always was.  While Dick and Jason were mainly only able to truly master the physical attributes of their training and be good detectives through experience, Tim is a natural with detective skills and is still considered a master combatant with plenty of room to grow as he grows.  Damien Wayne is a natural fighter but he is dumb, and just because he's a more aggressive combatant does not mean he'll own Tim when he get's older.  Age will be on Tim's side in that scenario just like age is on Dick and Jason's side over Tim.  I have looked over this discussion and I just feel like Tim is being compared to two Robin's who physically should be better than him through age and experience, but this being used as a reason to make Tim appear weak is unfair especially if you saw everything he went through in the original Robin series run.  I think Tim has improved a lot, look for him to start besting a lot of people soon if he's handled properly.