Jason is Wingman-Batman INC. #4

#1 Edited by redhoodx (79 posts) - - Show Bio

I got to say that i'm liking fact jason is wingman. Also this means finale some kind of common ground between him and bruce. Not to say that there like BFF's now, but some kind of growth in there relationship. Who else liked the Wingman and Redbird team-up?

#2 Posted by God_Spawn (38139 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope. I hate Damian and Jason should stick with being Red Hood only.

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#3 Posted by wessaari (630 posts) - - Show Bio

na, im not a morrison fan. after what he did to Jason in Batman and Robin, i just couldnt stand it anymore. As for this, this better take place after the death of the family. it makes no sense whatsoever. Morrison needs to pay attention to what characters he uses, and where they are in their respective books. Blatantly using a character without consideration of the character's current progress is disrespectful to me. When Jason was featured in Tomasi's run, it seemed plausible and even referenced his own book. I didnt like the story but Tomasi took the time to properly use the character, Morrison just thought "oh I am going to make Wingman Jason Todd, just for kicks and giggles". I find that annoying, and confusing to the overall continuity

#4 Posted by Dernman (15266 posts) - - Show Bio

It's things like this that is one of the reasons I don't like a lot of Morrison's Batman.

#5 Posted by Billy Batson (58209 posts) - - Show Bio

I like how you spoiled a book that came this Wednesday in the title :)
BB

#6 Posted by cameron83 (7566 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

Nope. I hate Damian and Jason should stick with being Red Hood only.

he still is

#7 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

Batman Inc isn't canon though right?

#8 Posted by God_Spawn (38139 posts) - - Show Bio

@cameron83: I know he is. My point was that is what he should just stick to.

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#9 Edited by SmashBrawler (5977 posts) - - Show Bio

Most disappointing reveal ever. I'm sorry, but Jason was way too obvious. What about Jean Paul Valley, for example? Sure, you'd have to find a way to bring him back to life, but it would be totally worth it.

@TheCrowbar said:

Batman Inc isn't canon though right?

I think it is. B&R referenced the bounty on Damian's head.

#10 Posted by ltbrd (562 posts) - - Show Bio

yeah, this is stupid. Not only for the fact that I think the new 52 should have left Jason dead (thus making his character effect Bruce that much more and really be a digging point in the upcoming Death of the Family arc with the Joker) but there are so many other characters that could have been perfect for this role. Personally I would have liked to see Thomas Blake (Catman) under this guise even if its just for this story arc because he had such tremendous character growth in the years leading up to Final Crisis and then he just vanished following Salvation Run. I've only got a few issues of the new Suicide Squad but I haven't seen him there or in any other title so he could have been a great character to bring back into the new 52 using this title.

#11 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Is it canon? Doesn't matter actually. Jason doesn't hate Bruce anymore.

#12 Edited by SmoothJammin (2334 posts) - - Show Bio

Can't say I didn't tell you folks so but... I told you so. My gut instinct was right!

#13 Posted by ThanosIsMad (2228 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

na, im not a morrison fan. after what he did to Jason in Batman and Robin, i just couldnt stand it anymore. As for this, this better take place after the death of the family. it makes no sense whatsoever. Morrison needs to pay attention to what characters he uses, and where they are in their respective books. Blatantly using a character without consideration of the character's current progress is disrespectful to me. When Jason was featured in Tomasi's run, it seemed plausible and even referenced his own book. I didnt like the story but Tomasi took the time to properly use the character, Morrison just thought "oh I am going to make Wingman Jason Todd, just for kicks and giggles". I find that annoying, and confusing to the overall continuity

You have it wrong. Every other book should've paid attention to what Morrison was doing, seeing as everything he's done is in direct reference to the previous Batman Inc series and the Batman franchise as a whole pre-reboot and has been in the works for years. So really, everyone should've worked in tandem with Morrison rather the other way around.

#14 Edited by JakeN7 (12742 posts) - - Show Bio

@SandMan_ @TheCrowbar: It is. It coincides with the other books and Damian's bounty is referenced in Batman and Robin #13.

I completely agree. People that haven't read his whole Batman Inc. run wouldn't understand why it made sense for Wingman to be Jason. He needed a covert operative. One that doesn't necessarily play be the same rules as the others. And if Bruce just had Red Hood join Batman Inc. I think that would have created a lot of mixed feelings and would have been pretty polarizing to the team as a whole. I also don't think Bruce is ready to accept the fact that Jason has changed just yet...but he is making baby steps.

I made a thread about the book as a whole and I go over this same reveal in greater detail. Here's a link: http://www.comicvine.com/batman/29-1699/batman-incorporated-4-general-discussion-spoilers/92-709943/#4

#15 Edited by CrimsonAlchemist (410 posts) - - Show Bio

@SmashBrawler: Not that I'm not onboard with this idea which I enjoyed the return of Jean Paul or the current Azreal would be more interesting. Nice to see they're gonna stick with the Batman 666 story arc. Looks like Damien is bound to be a bigger murderer than RH.

#16 Posted by X9 (767 posts) - - Show Bio

I though it was pretty cool, everyone thought it was Dick.

Plus, his interaction with Damian was interesting.

#17 Posted by daredevil21134 (12159 posts) - - Show Bio

SIGH

#18 Posted by entropy_aegis (15457 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm sorry but why are people complaining about JPV,Catman,etc? Morrison is writing a story,he's not supposed to cater to the fantasies of some fanboys.I personally also wanted it to be JPV but just cause it aint him does'nt mean it's the end of the world.@daredevil21134 said:

SIGH

He's the ultimate No.2 guy now is'nt he? I mean Red Hood 2,Robin 2,Red Robin 2,Nightwing 2,Wingman 2,and his hair is black. LMAO.@TheCrowbar said:

Batman Inc isn't canon though right?

It's canon officially,but aside from B&R it seems to not give a crap about anything and that makes it awesome.It does'nt have the stink of the new-52 in it.@wessaari said:

na, im not a morrison fan. after what he did to Jason in Batman and Robin, i just couldnt stand it anymore. As for this, this better take place after the death of the family. it makes no sense whatsoever. Morrison needs to pay attention to what characters he uses, and where they are in their respective books. Blatantly using a character without consideration of the character's current progress is disrespectful to me. When Jason was featured in Tomasi's run, it seemed plausible and even referenced his own book. I didnt like the story but Tomasi took the time to properly use the character, Morrison just thought "oh I am going to make Wingman Jason Todd, just for kicks and giggles". I find that annoying, and confusing to the overall continuity

Tomasi took the time to have Jason get his ass kicked by Damian.The continuity has been a wreck ever since the relaunch.

#19 Posted by tahmidk (283 posts) - - Show Bio

im sorry but what is wrong with you guys? yeah im guessing u guys didnt read morrison's previous batman incorportated run *sigh* i personally feel jason shoukd die, but im not going to cry about it and make stupid assumptions

#20 Posted by wessaari (630 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis: dont get me wrong, i reviewed that run and thought it was crap. Tomasi is more of a Damian lover, and didnt give Jason a fair shot, but he still referenced him right and at least got some of his emotional experiences down, even though he made him look like a weakling. and I am more of a new reader, so the new 52 benefits that category of reader, but to more long time readers, ya i understand where you are coming from. i personally think that Pre-New 52 had some great stories, i have a mountain of trades to prove it lol. but there have been some good stories, as the universe as a whole it has been pretty messy and unorganized. Personally, I just dont like Morrison's writing, and he can do whatever the hell he wants. He about ruined Jason Todd in Pre-New 52 and making him Wingman to me makes no sense.

#21 Posted by djetter0801 (55 posts) - - Show Bio

I guess Jason and Talia must be at odds for some reason. You would think his inspiration would be to capture Damian himself and send him to Talia. Unless it is all a ruse right now to get that bounty for himself.

#22 Posted by entropy_aegis (15457 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

@entropy_aegis: dont get me wrong, i reviewed that run and thought it was crap. Tomasi is more of a Damian lover, and didnt give Jason a fair shot, but he still referenced him right and at least got some of his emotional experiences down, even though he made him look like a weakling. and I am more of a new reader, so the new 52 benefits that category of reader, but to more long time readers, ya i understand where you are coming from. i personally think that Pre-New 52 had some great stories, i have a mountain of trades to prove it lol. but there have been some good stories, as the universe as a whole it has been pretty messy and unorganized. Personally, I just dont like Morrison's writing, and he can do whatever the hell he wants. He about ruined Jason Todd in Pre-New 52 and making him Wingman to me makes no sense.

Jason was inconsistent before the New-52,and Morrison did'nt write him badly at all.He just changed his appearance but his personality remained intact,Bruce Jones and Tony Daniel practically ruined him,Johns and Nicieza did'nt write him any better either.

I think the New-52 has more continuity problems than the old one,just wait a few years.

#23 Posted by daredevil21134 (12159 posts) - - Show Bio

@entropy_aegis said:

@wessaari said:

@entropy_aegis: dont get me wrong, i reviewed that run and thought it was crap. Tomasi is more of a Damian lover, and didnt give Jason a fair shot, but he still referenced him right and at least got some of his emotional experiences down, even though he made him look like a weakling. and I am more of a new reader, so the new 52 benefits that category of reader, but to more long time readers, ya i understand where you are coming from. i personally think that Pre-New 52 had some great stories, i have a mountain of trades to prove it lol. but there have been some good stories, as the universe as a whole it has been pretty messy and unorganized. Personally, I just dont like Morrison's writing, and he can do whatever the hell he wants. He about ruined Jason Todd in Pre-New 52 and making him Wingman to me makes no sense.

Jason was inconsistent before the New-52,and Morrison did'nt write him badly at all.He just changed his appearance but his personality remained intact,Bruce Jones and Tony Daniel practically ruined him,Johns and Nicieza did'nt write him any better either.

I think the New-52 has more continuity problems than the old one,just wait a few years.

Agreed

#24 Posted by entropy_aegis (15457 posts) - - Show Bio

@djetter0801 said:

I guess Jason and Talia must be at odds for some reason. You would think his inspiration would be to capture Damian himself and send him to Talia. Unless it is all a ruse right now to get that bounty for himself.

Jason is'nt a bounty hunter or merc,Talia is threatening the world.

#25 Posted by Batnandez (511 posts) - - Show Bio

Come on guys, it said on the first issue this is PRE-FLASHPOINT!!!

#26 Posted by Squalleon (4647 posts) - - Show Bio

Morrison doesn't give a f@!$ about Jason Todd,he just doesn't!

  • First he makes him a mass murderer,completely inconsistent from the rest of the stories following the character!
  • Then he makes him a lunatic............
  • And now he makes him batman's double agent.Even though the rest of the Bat-Books have them not even talking to each other!!

    WHY? GRANT WHY?
Online
#27 Edited by bilwit (7 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

na, im not a morrison fan. after what he did to Jason in Batman and Robin, i just couldnt stand it anymore. As for this, this better take place after the death of the family. it makes no sense whatsoever. Morrison needs to pay attention to what characters he uses, and where they are in their respective books. Blatantly using a character without consideration of the character's current progress is disrespectful to me. When Jason was featured in Tomasi's run, it seemed plausible and even referenced his own book. I didnt like the story but Tomasi took the time to properly use the character, Morrison just thought "oh I am going to make Wingman Jason Todd, just for kicks and giggles". I find that annoying, and confusing to the overall continuity

I get the impression that Morrison always intended Jason to redeem himself as Wingman long before the reboot and perhaps as early as the Island of Mister Mayhew arc but DC had it's own plans. INC has always been in it's own realm really.. with Leviathan Strikes! coming out so late. It's the last book that ties together everything he's ever written for Batman so people who aren't familiar with the entire story shouldn't get so worked up about continuity. It's not like every book is supposed to be read in parallel where everything is happening at the same time. I actually wished he was allowed to finish his story as a pre-reboot story with Dick still as Batman -- the whole Wingman thing would've fit better that way and it seems like he had bigger things setup for Stephanie Brown and Cassandra Cain who are seemingly not existent anymore. Also, Jason was only in disguise so that he could work with them without the others freaking out so now that he's revealed he doesn't really have to be Wingman for the rest of the book; it's not like it's a permanent thing.

@Squalleon said:

Morrison doesn't give a f@!$ about Jason Todd,he just doesn't!

  • First he makes him a mass murderer,completely inconsistent from the rest of the stories following the character!
  • Then he makes him a lunatic............
  • And now he makes him batman's double agent.Even though the rest of the Bat-Books have them not even talking to each other!!

    WHY? GRANT WHY?

That's not true. He came back to help them during Night of the Owls and again with the current Death of the Family event. If anything, it was Tony Daniels who screwed up Jason big time in Battle for the Cowl.. Morrison just played off of that but still made him a "good" guy (albeit liberal with killing) who clashed with Batman & Robin while running after the same bad guys. In INC he makes Jason seem pretty okay with everyone else. Also, as I understand it, the whole red hair thing is actually a reference to a silver age issue that first came up with it.

#28 Posted by consolemaster001 (5898 posts) - - Show Bio

It was a good issue

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