Is Jason Todd responsible for his own death?

#1 Posted by Jacquenette_Harper (86 posts) - - Show Bio

Before I get to the question I will refresh your memory/inform those who never knew the actual story of the death of Jason Todd aka "A Death In The Family". 


Jason, disobeying direct orders from Batman, goes to a warehouse where he believes Joker is, and where his mother is, believing her to be in danger. His mother leaves the warehouse unharmed and approaches Jason. He talks to her, going to offer her help against the Joker, as Robin. His mother has Jason come with her inside the warehouse, telling him Joker is no longer inside. He follows her, but it turns out his mother had lied to him, and delivers him into the hands of the Joker. This is where the famous beating with the crowbar scene happens then, and then the building blows up (obviously without Joker inside), in fact as his last act he throws himself in front of the bomb hoping to shield his mother (after she had just betrayed him). And Batman fails to reach Jason in time to save him.

Over the years this has been said to be Jason's own fault by writers and editors, because Jason disobeyed Batman. Dennis O'Neil has even said that Jason "in a way, got what he was asking for."

So what do you all think? Was Jason's death his own fault?
#2 Posted by theincrediblezero (100 posts) - - Show Bio

We've been over this before in other threads. Most of us agree, it was not Jason's fault. Was the move risky? Yes. But it's more Bats' fault for not anticipating the consequences of Jason's circumstances.

#3 Posted by RedHoodsDen (496 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it was the bomb that did it.


Heh.
#4 Posted by daredevil21134 (10848 posts) - - Show Bio
@RedHoodsDen said:
" No, it was the bomb that did it.

Heh.
"
lol
#5 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio

I'd say the blame for his death belongs to the Joker.

#6 Edited by God_Spawn (37316 posts) - - Show Bio
@Green Skin: I blame the crowbar,


 Look how guilty it is.
Moderator
#7 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - - Show Bio
@god_spawn:  Lol
#8 Posted by Rudyftw (987 posts) - - Show Bio

Naa Its not his fault... almost every Robin has went against Batman's orders and almost died in the process, Todd is just the unlucky one.


#9 Posted by entropy_aegis (14234 posts) - - Show Bio
@theincrediblezero said:
" We've been over this before in other threads. Most of us agree, it was not Jason's fault. Was the move risky? Yes. But it's more Bats' fault for not anticipating the consequences of Jason's circumstances. "
Okay,so Batman should have anticipated Joker in Africa?Riiiiight.It's the fault of the DC management,they wanted Todd dead and made him unlikeable so that fans would too.DIAF is a gimmick story,anyone who's read it knows that.I mean Joker becoming ambassador to the UN? FAIL.
#10 Posted by Meinos Kaen (39 posts) - - Show Bio

No. The whole point of the article is that Jason's death was because he was TRICKED BY HIS OWN MOTHER.

#11 Posted by Primmaster64 (21138 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#12 Posted by RedHoodJT (527 posts) - - Show Bio

It wasn't his fault. I mean if you were a super hero and you just found your mother and tried to save her from, who you thought she had no idea of his identity, then you would probably do the same thing that Jason did. I know I would. To hell with what Batman told him to do. Its his mother in there. Batman isn't very good at seeing emotions and what not. It took the death of Jason for him to finally grow a damn back bone. I blame Batman for his death. He should've been there in time to save him and he wasn't. EPIC FAIL!
#13 Posted by theincrediblezero (100 posts) - - Show Bio
@entropy_aegis:  No, I don't mean to imply that Joker is anticipate-able. That defeats the purpose of Joker. I meant that he should have been keeping a closer eye on him and not, oh I dunno LETTING HIS ADOPTED SON SNEAK OFF GODDAMN AFRICA. You're right, it's a horrible, gimicky story, and DC sucked at taking care of him.
#14 Posted by georgethecat (65 posts) - - Show Bio

No. The Joker is responsible for Jason's death; Jason's mother, Sheila, would be considered an accomplice in the act. No blame should be laid at Jason's feet, doing so would be victim blaming. 

#15 Posted by RedHoodJT (527 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with george. It can't be Jason's fault for what he did. Like I said blame Batman for leaving Jason there to "watch" his mother. For all Batman knew Jason could have watched his mother's death if he had stayed. Then he would've been just like Bruce, a bit.

#16 Posted by RedHoodJT (527 posts) - - Show Bio

To be honest I think everyone was to blame for that. Bruce for arguing with Jason making Jason run off to find his mother alone. The Joker for actually doing the deed. Jason for being careless and not thinking things out. And his mother for being a cold hearted bitch. Each one of them is to blame for a different reason and each one is no more to blame than the other. It took all of them working together to fail this bad.

#17 Posted by TriSkeith13 (25 posts) - - Show Bio

In universe the only person to blame is the Joker. He did it. Its his fault. Bruce failed to make it in time, sure. Even Bruce believes it was his fault and he carries that cross to this day. In retcon, Batman writers have changed the story that "This horrible tragedy happened and it was aweful. Joker killed Jason." to "Jason killed himself by being a reckless, ill-behaved emotional nutjob who never did anything Bruce told him.". But in the end, Bruce is responsible for Bruce's actions. And for the writers who have done this "retconning", its dumb and its stupid to pigeon hole Jason's death on him or Jason himself.

 

Joker did it. In those brief moments where Joker beat Jason, Jason saw the very truth of Joker's soul. He saw that the madness was the mask. That this disgusting, sociopathic monster had so ingrained his identity as a madmen in the hearts and souls of others, becoming the darkest form of fear, that he tricked himself into believing it was true.

 

The Joker is the darkness that Batman could become. Bruce has the means to eliminate his identity, fake his own death, and truly decsend into the "Batman" persona. He has walked the edge of this identity crisis many times and it has always been one of the many issue his character faces over time. When the line is blurred.

 

Joker has crossed the line and is never coming back. Back deep in the very maelstrom that is the Joker's mentality, in the very center of all the chaos, lies the sanity and clarity of the man he was, the man he has always been. A man who sees the chaos and accepts it has his weapon. Because this man is evil. This man, this core of who Joker is, his TRUE identity is that of a man who really does enjoy hurting others.

 

Because the crazy thing about the Joker is that he is sane. He is completely sane and knows it. In Alan Moore's "A Killing Joke", in a STUNNING moment of clarity, that man in the eye of the storm shows himself to Batman. He shows Bruce the truth. That its too late for him. That there is no saving him. Because he doesn't want to be saved. And then, without a hitch, he walks back to the center of the maelstrom and the storm rises once more.

#18 Posted by RedHoodJT (527 posts) - - Show Bio
@TriSkeith13:  Very well put. A very well detailed look inside of what makes the Joker Joker.

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