Does it bother anyone that Jason Todd is alive?

  • 55 results
  • 1
  • 2
#1 Edited by Reignmaker (2227 posts) - - Show Bio

Forgive me if this has been beaten to death (pun intended). But as someone who has recently returned to comics, the fact that Jason Todd is alive really chafes my backside. I mean, didn't people vote for this character to die? Did people vote to have him come back?

Killing Jason was the Joker's greatest accomplishment and is one of the acts which enshrines him as the greatest villain of all time. It was Batman's greatest failure. Heck, Jason's death is even mentioned in The Dark Knight Returns - the definitive Batman end story.

Now I know that comic book characters are never truly dead, but in my mind Jason was different. His death was convenient because no one liked his character at the time anyway. Furthermore, his death created a tragedy of such magnitude that it reverberated in the pages of Batman comics for years to come - creating a theme that is still compelling up to this day. Are you going to tell me that turning Jason into yet another antihero is more interesting?

Frankly, I don't care what hokey pokey explanation the writers conjured up to sell more comic books. Bringing Jason Todd back from the dead completely cheapens the whole experience.

/rant

#2 Edited by moywar700 (2775 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree. His return was well handled, he had an entire story arc dedicated to him and makes the situation respectable. When nightcrawler died,nobody cared.His death had so little impact, his decades of being an x-men was so meaningless.If he came back to life, things would go been going on like they always have.

#3 Posted by hridindu (3 posts) - - Show Bio

Despite how peculiar the circumstances of of Jason Todd's coming back to life, i think it was a good move. I feel like no matter how tragic his death was, his return was harder for batman because it took his failure and magnified it because now his ex-protege is a huge (ish) villain. And besides, his death was over 20 years ago, and continuity and permanence over that long in comic books are subject at best.

And also i really like the Jason Todd now. He went from being a total tool, to an actually pretty cool tool.

#4 Posted by RainEffect (3240 posts) - - Show Bio

There's totally two sides to this coin (Harvey would be proud of me). xD
 
On one side, like you said, it sort of devalues the fact that the Joker did something that no other villain could do - score a victory against the Dark Knight that well haunt him for the rest of his life. I mean, sure, Bane broke his back and his spirit, but Batman recovered and came back better than ever. When the Joker killed Jason Todd, it became a moment in his life that was almost as grave as the day his parents were murdered in Crime Alley. Every time he sees the Robin outfit in the Batcave, he is reminded of how he failed that child, and how that child is now forever dead (and the child within Jason is still dead). 
 
Then you have the other side. With Jason coming back, it still haunts Bruce that he failed to stop this horrible fate befalling a child, but now he's so messed up that Bruce feels as though he is directly responsible for how twisted he's become. Now his protege, the boy he failed, has become what Batman has strived so hard not to be - a killer vigilante. Jason is sort of a living example, to Bruce, of what happens if Batman crosses the line, and how messed up that makes things. 
 
So, dead or alive, Bruce is still affected by the death, but I have to admit; since the New 52, I've really started to like Jason. I mean, people know on here I used to hate him, but then I picked up Red Hood and the Outlaws and he's a really likeable character now. Props to Scott Lobdell for what he's done.

#5 Posted by JSH92 (414 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm more annoyed at Stephanie Brown coming back after Black Mask killed her when she was Robin. I liked the Under the Hood story actually.

#6 Posted by Avenging-X-Bolt (12519 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't even like him but I still think him being back is good.

Online
#7 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84533 posts) - - Show Bio
Moderator
#8 Posted by TheCrowbar (4286 posts) - - Show Bio

@Gambler:

I totally agree, this thread should live.

That is what you meant right? Because historically the thumbs down meant they got to live.

#9 Posted by Quintus_Knightfall (84533 posts) - - Show Bio

@TheCrowbar: I like the thread lol I'm agreeing with the author in my own way. The fans voted to kill him, he should have stayed dead. Even though Red Hood and the Outlaws is one of my favorite titles.

Moderator
#10 Posted by r3d_rob1n (541 posts) - - Show Bio

Bringing Jason back doesn't ruin things for me. For one thing, the emotional scarring on Batman from Jason's death still happened, and in most ways he still feels responsible for his death (now he feels responsible for his fall). So the Joker having gotten a Robin still stands in many ways. In fact, it could be argued that corrupting a Robin is more harmful to Batman's psyche than simply blowing one up.

Also, Jason's return was handled exceptionally. Under the Hood is one of the best Batman tales ever written. Sure the character has had some ups and downs since resurrection (Grant Morrison should not be allowed to write Todd IMO). But now Jason being alive adds a better dynamic to the inter-Robin relationships, rather than just showing the love between Dick and Tim constantly. He's become the brother that you still care about, but don't want in your life.

#11 Posted by Dernman (14731 posts) - - Show Bio

I believe both yes and no. I don't care if it doesn't make sense I believe both equally.

#12 Posted by The Stegman (23059 posts) - - Show Bio

It bothers Batman

#13 Posted by BlackArmor (6134 posts) - - Show Bio

There's no in universe harm to bringing back Jason Todd even though I can understand how some fans who voted for his death may feel betrayed. His death was still a low point for Batman Jason's resurrection did nothing to strip the sense of failure that the dark knight picked up for letting him die, beyond even that Jason's mindset, actions, and his grudge against Batman who he also feels failed him have only managed to deepen the emotional fallout of the original murder. All the fallout of Jason's death was intact at least until the inaction of the new 52 and probably even past then, Batman still became darker in grief Tim Drake still became Robin and every other thing that happened afterwards as a direct result or otherwise still effects the Bat Verse. As for Joker he's killed thousands of people, even now that the universe has reset I think it was still confirmed that his death toll reaches into the thousands. While killing Jason was still his defining blow against the bat it is by no means his crowning achievement. As mentioned above it still holds all the emotional effect of before but now Joker has a chance to kill him twice

#14 Posted by batshrine (969 posts) - - Show Bio

I see where you are coming from in the fact that this comic book death actually felt like it would stay. And in all honesty it should have because if death isn't permanent then where is the value in it?

At the same time its kinda cool seeing him back.

Idk lets just say Im on the fence with this one

#15 Posted by God_Spawn (37316 posts) - - Show Bio

Some? Yes.. Me? No. Personally, Jason is my fave DC character cause of his resurrection and RHTO is my current fave DC title.

Moderator
#16 Posted by TDK_1997 (14456 posts) - - Show Bio

Well,Jason was never one of my favorite characters but I like him back and how he is the Red Hood.

#17 Posted by johnkmccubbin91 (3486 posts) - - Show Bio

If he was back the way he was in the 80's then yes but the way Judd Winick did Under The Hood was amazing and its a shame he isn't writing him the now

#18 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

Jason coming back makes the fact that Joker won on that day even worse, because Jason didn't come back pure, he came back as the Red Hood.

#19 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@InnerVenom123 said:

No.

Jason coming back makes the fact that Joker won on that day even worse, because Jason didn't come back pure, he came back as the Red Hood.

Thing is, Jason was never pure in the first place. Even though his pre Death in the Family characterization was kind of all over the place.
Moderator
#20 Posted by InnerVenom123 (29499 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@InnerVenom123 said:

No.

Jason coming back makes the fact that Joker won on that day even worse, because Jason didn't come back pure, he came back as the Red Hood.

Thing is, Jason was never pure in the first place. Even though his pre Death in the Family characterization was kind of all over the place.

Well, I mean "pure" as in "crimefighter", as opposed to ... well, Red Hood. Should have worded that better.

#21 Posted by daredevil21134 (10851 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason Todd is my favorite DC character so i'm glad he's back.All hail the greatness of Jason Todd!!!

Online
#22 Posted by timelord786 (164 posts) - - Show Bio

i like his return ... it shows us what the bat could become if he crossed that line.

#23 Posted by wessaari (622 posts) - - Show Bio

there was a huge problem with the voting system. the votes were neck and neck and there was a guy a who gave the most votes because he called in a couple hundred times. so technically he should be alive, which he rightly is.

#24 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason is back for better or worse, and he's bigger and better than ever before. ᕦ(ò_óˇ)ᕤ

#25 Posted by LuigiBat (225 posts) - - Show Bio

@wessaari said:

there was a huge problem with the voting system. the votes were neck and neck and there was a guy a who gave the most votes because he called in a couple hundred times. so technically he should be alive, which he rightly is.

That is (from what I can gather) the exact figures for the poll which decided Jason's future all those years ago. As you can see the figures are incredibly close, a difference of roughly 80. And according to O'Neil, the writer who set up the poll as he couldn't decide what to do with the character, a guy programmed his Macintosh to call every two minutes and choose the option which would see Jason die, supposedly he did this 320 times in total which effectively means that this random guy killed Jason Todd.

As far as I'm concerned the resurrection of a dead character does take away slightly from the impact of his death on Batman, but ask yourself this. What is worse for Batman, being helpless to prevent the death of Jason at the hands of the Joker or seeing Jason return and completely misconstrue everything he was ever taught? As was said in The Dark Knight "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". In Jason's case he died a hero of sorts, came back to life a villain and has recently mellowed out a bit. I personally think that DC were right to resurrect the character given the dodgy circumstances and slim margin with which he was killed off back in the 80's, he was unpopular for sure but not all that unpopular to be worthy of killing off.

#26 Posted by BatWatch (2364 posts) - - Show Bio

Yes and no. It bugs me because it cheapens the story, but that is really the flaw of the ongoing comic medium rather than the fault of one particular story writer. Yes, you could theoredically have an ongoing without bringing characters back from the dead, but writers begin to feel trapped, and wouldn't it just make for a great story to bring _________ back?

And the writers are right. Under the Red Hood was a great story, and Jason's return has added a character to the DC world which it really needed, but at the same time, it does cheapen his death in the first place.

It bugs me, but I've accepted it as a fact of ongoing comics. I have not yet accepted the reboot as a fact of ongoing comics.

#27 Posted by SoA (4695 posts) - - Show Bio

@Reignmaker: after being cool with bruce and the bat family i see no point in him being around

if he was just another batman villain trained by batman then he would be okay , but he is just there . not a lot of people like damien but i put damien over todd.

#28 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i liked jason todd ever since batman under the hood movie. he's one of my favorite bat characters after nightwing.

#29 Posted by MatKrenz (1233 posts) - - Show Bio

I always taught the vote to kill him off was such a stupid idea. The tought process was " We have a character taht at first was a clone of the previous Robin but ever since we changed his origin to make him a street tough and a bit more abbrassive nobody likes him. What should we do ?"

" How about we try and make him likeable by smoothing out his anger issues ?"

"Thats dumb, anybody got any other ideas"

"Let's have a vote to kill him off or keep him alive"

"Genius !!!!111!!!11"

So yeah, I like the fact that Winick brought him back to life wich made for a good comic and a great animated movie.

#30 Posted by britsera (204 posts) - - Show Bio

Gonna admit though, Red Hood pwns. It's okay because they handled it well, and made a viable character out of it (instead of just bringing him back for a few issues to screw things up). And we get some nice Family drama with Jason being the black sheep. Family drama's always good. :)

Also, we got a good movie out of that comic. Convinced me Bruce Greenwood could be Bats after Conroy (he was good in YJ, but we never got a long scene). Jensen Ackles did well, sounded like I thought Jason would.

#31 Edited by thespideyguy (2645 posts) - - Show Bio

He'd be good if they brought him back in an arc where batman died (like no pulse, his real body) . He's just too important to the mythos to bring back.

#32 Posted by sesquipedalophobe (4691 posts) - - Show Bio

It just confirms everyone's suspicion that he doesn't have a soul.

#33 Posted by Madnessstrikes (1 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't mind Jason's death that much because it was handled well, AND now we have Barbara. Had. I don't like the fact that recent events seem like DC would rather have us forget about the Joker....they better come out with something spectacular in October.

#34 Posted by Death Certificate (5438 posts) - - Show Bio

nope

#35 Posted by TheCat (20 posts) - - Show Bio

I've heard that while the votes were being cast to determine Jason's fate, a voter rigged it to vote numerous times the whole day in favor of killing him off. If that is true then I don't even feel bad that it was eventually undone.

To be quite honest, I don't even feel bad now. I love Jason Todd. He isn't my favorite robin, but he is one of my favorite men in the DC universe.

#36 Posted by VenomousDragon (843 posts) - - Show Bio

Nope because he is awesome now. What bothers me is how he came back, I wish they had used the same story as Under the red hood.

#37 Posted by SandMan_ (4528 posts) - - Show Bio

Jason's death haunted Batman in the books for almost 25 years.

#38 Posted by sethysquare (3843 posts) - - Show Bio

Why should it bother anyone?

Superman, Hal Jordan, Barry Allen, Supergirl, Batman, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter are all alive and kicking.

#39 Posted by NlGHTCRAWLER (2898 posts) - - Show Bio

I would rather have Grayson be dead. Never really liked his character.

#40 Posted by daredevil21134 (10851 posts) - - Show Bio

@NlGHTCRAWLER said:

I would rather have Grayson be dead. Never really liked his character.

LOL

Online
#41 Posted by daredevil21134 (10851 posts) - - Show Bio
Online
#42 Posted by saiyan_earthling (5378 posts) - - Show Bio

No.

#43 Posted by Shotgun (900 posts) - - Show Bio

Hell yes.

#44 Posted by Nathaniel_Christopher (1556 posts) - - Show Bio

Not really. I didn't mind him dead, as it was one of the few that stuck over the years, but since he's been back they've done some good work with him. (And some bad) Its about knowing what direction to take a character.

#45 Posted by DeathpooltheT1000 (9503 posts) - - Show Bio

No, it piss me off that Aunt May is still alive.

#46 Posted by _Franco_ (47 posts) - - Show Bio

No

#47 Edited by Funrush (1369 posts) - - Show Bio

No, I love how he came back, as it hyped up the Joker even more. Think about it, Robin comes all the way back from the dead as a badass to kill the Joker and fails. Now that's even heavier on Jason, and establishes Joker as even more of a legend.

#48 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6027 posts) - - Show Bio

@moywar700 said:

I disagree. His return was well handled, he had an entire story arc dedicated to him and makes the situation respectable. When nightcrawler died,nobody cared.His death had so little impact, his decades of being an x-men was so meaningless.If he came back to life, things would go been going on like they always have.

Online
#49 Posted by MadeinBangladesh (6027 posts) - - Show Bio

REd Hood FTW

Online
#50 Posted by ReVamp (22863 posts) - - Show Bio

I disagree with all of it.

This edit will also create new pages on Comic Vine for:

Beware, you are proposing to add brand new pages to the wiki along with your edits. Make sure this is what you intended. This will likely increase the time it takes for your changes to go live.

Comment and Save

Until you earn 1000 points all your submissions need to be vetted by other Comic Vine users. This process takes no more than a few hours and we'll send you an email once approved.