Tony Stark - Why wasn't he numbered among Marvel's smartest?

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#51 Edited by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

T'Challa made an inertia robbing forcefield out of common household items in his current series. Much more complex than web shooters. Again, got any more feats?

Peter Parker is alot younger than most on the list, accept Cho but his accolades from that of other great minds makes it evident that he's probably smarter than T'Challa. For starters he created web tracers when he was a teenager. When Hank Pym first analyzed them he was amazed that Spider-Man could create a device that locks into the frequency of his own Spider-Sense when it took him years to do something similar with his helmet with a much more mature intellect. Spider-Man produced in minutes what took years for Pym.Also Parker took an I.Q. test and his scores were equal to that of Reed Richards when Reed Richards was that age.

Age is irrelevant in this discussion. If someone is smarter than you in your respective field so be it. I have a hard time believing Parker is light years ahead of Pym. The man was deemed Scientific Supreme of Earth by Eternity after all. He manipulates Pym Particles to displace his mass, created a helmet capable of interspecies communication, used stem cell implantation to cause the growth of wings, developed the Infinite Avenger's mansion and built Ultron. THE MAN MADE HEAVEN FOR CHRIST SAKES! Pym gets the shaft from writers fairly often. I feel IQ test are skewed and not a reliable indicator of one's intelligence. Many of the great minds of the world don't put much value in it. Someone once said if an Aborigine drafted the IQ test the West would effectively fail.

Parker isn't on Pym's level. I doubt he's smarter than T'Challa either.

#52 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Wise Son said:

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

I disagree. What has Parker done? I have been out of the ol' Webhead's loop for a while.I'm talking early 2000s.

For starters he created those web-shooters he uses every day.

Wow, because no one else on this list could do that. Any more feats?

The Web-Shooter aren't a feat. Not when we're talking T'Challa. T'Challa goes into a grocery story and buys regular sh*tm and makes into a machine that depowers his enemy. Parker has no feats like this.

#53 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Vance Astro: Doesn't that scan only say that he's part of the top eight, not necessarily that he's the third smartest?

#54 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@Vance Astro: Doesn't that scan only say that he's part of the top eight, not necessarily that he's the third smartest?

It wasn't meant to be proof he's ranked third, just that he is one of the eight (I just used MODOK's phrase to highlight it). 
 
And, for reference, Cho isn't among the eight as erroneously presumed by the OP, he's number 10.

 
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#55 Posted by Captain Danvers (149 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

T'Challa made an inertia robbing forcefield out of common household items in his current series. Much more complex than web shooters. Again, got any more feats?

Peter Parker is alot younger than most on the list, accept Cho but his accolades from that of other great minds makes it evident that he's probably smarter than T'Challa. For starters he created web tracers when he was a teenager. When Hank Pym first analyzed them he was amazed that Spider-Man could create a device that locks into the frequency of his own Spider-Sense when it took him years to do something similar with his helmet with a much more mature intellect. Spider-Man produced in minutes what took years for Pym.Also Parker took an I.Q. test and his scores were equal to that of Reed Richards when Reed Richards was that age.

Age is irrelevant in this discussion. If someone is smarter than you in your respective field so be it. I have a hard time believing Parker is light years ahead of Pym. The man was deemed Scientific Supreme of Earth by Eternity after all. He manipulates Pym Particles to displace his mass, created a helmet capable of interspecies communication, used stem cell implantation to cause the growth of wings, developed the Infinite Avenger's mansion and built Ultron. THE MAN MADE HEAVEN FOR CHRIST SAKES! Pym gets the shaft from writers fairly often. I feel IQ test are skewed and not a reliable indicator of one's intelligence. Many of the great minds of the world don't put much value in it. Someone once said if an Aborigine drafted the IQ test the West would effectively fail.

Parker isn't on Pym's level. I doubt he's smarter than T'Challa either.

Age is relevant to my examples.What took Pym years to do was a weekend project for Parker.That Helmet is one of Pym's prized creations. Parker had already created a similar effect and in less than half the time.As far as the IQ test that he and Reed took it's a fictional test in comic books that was used to show how smart Parker was if "great minds" didn't put any value in it (from a comic writing standpoint) it wouldn't have been mentioned.Pym is the scientist supreme for the way he uses science not because he's smarter than all other "scientists", Eternity even agreed with him that Reed was smarter than him and Pym himself suggested that Iron Man was smarter than him and Eternity explained why he chose Pym over him and it's not because he's smarter.To clarify I wasn't bring up the feat with the Spider-Tracer to suggest that Parker is smarter than Pym (although he says it out of his own mouth) but to show that he can create things that rival the creations of other Intellects in the Marvel Universe.
#56 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_: Ah, I didn't even know that was up for debate. The problem with when we have scans of the people themselves claiming to be a position, is that at a lot of times, their ego is in it.

#57 Posted by XMASCATEXE (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

T'Challa made an inertia robbing forcefield out of common household items in his current series. Much more complex than web shooters. Again, got any more feats?

Also Parker took an I.Q. test and his scores were equal to that of Reed Richards when Reed Richards was that age.

Not sure why I'm dropping it but the sake of contention I guess using Reed as a measuring stick is bad form, for one being as smart as Reed at an age doesn't make one as smart as he is now.

More though Reed is promoted as " the genius " much as the way Einstein was ins reality, therefore the assumption that no one is his equal. Likewise using him as a point in another characters defense against Pym is bad as Pym beat Reed in a battle of wits specifically designed to defeat Pyms intellect.

@Wise Son said:

The man was deemed Scientific Supreme of Earth by Eternity after all.

after Pym changed himself to the degree to find Eternity, meet and be deemed this in person. That moment is a little hard to deny really.

Peter is up there though, I wouldn't stand against that but, see my statement in my Skrull account, as well as that image Morpheus posted of Iron Man. Again, it wasn't a ranked list, nor an actual list of the smartest people on Earth. It was a list of the persons who specifically fit the Intelligencia's agenda in for their plan in World War Hulks, in order of who was to be dealt with when.

#58 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
As an addition to the Scientist Supreme title, Eternity (if it was indeed Eternity and not Loki) chose Hank due to his outlook towards science. In the same discussion, he deemed Reed the Explorer Supreme and Tony the Engineer.  Each representing a different aspect of science.
 
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#59 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@ReVamp said:

@Morpheus_: Ah, I didn't even know that was up for debate. The problem with when we have scans of the people themselves claiming to be a position, is that at a lot of times, their ego is in it.

I think that stands more so true for Amadeus than it is for Banner, who corrected him, haha. At least with Iron Man the reference is more objective, since there is no love lost between him, the Leader and MODOK. At some point the Leader stated he was always the # 1 on the list, something which, well, I don't take nearly as seriously as the others since it is an egotistical statement.
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#60 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

T'Challa made an inertia robbing forcefield out of common household items in his current series. Much more complex than web shooters. Again, got any more feats?

Peter Parker is alot younger than most on the list, accept Cho but his accolades from that of other great minds makes it evident that he's probably smarter than T'Challa. For starters he created web tracers when he was a teenager. When Hank Pym first analyzed them he was amazed that Spider-Man could create a device that locks into the frequency of his own Spider-Sense when it took him years to do something similar with his helmet with a much more mature intellect. Spider-Man produced in minutes what took years for Pym.Also Parker took an I.Q. test and his scores were equal to that of Reed Richards when Reed Richards was that age.

Age is irrelevant in this discussion. If someone is smarter than you in your respective field so be it. I have a hard time believing Parker is light years ahead of Pym. The man was deemed Scientific Supreme of Earth by Eternity after all. He manipulates Pym Particles to displace his mass, created a helmet capable of interspecies communication, used stem cell implantation to cause the growth of wings, developed the Infinite Avenger's mansion and built Ultron. THE MAN MADE HEAVEN FOR CHRIST SAKES! Pym gets the shaft from writers fairly often. I feel IQ test are skewed and not a reliable indicator of one's intelligence. Many of the great minds of the world don't put much value in it. Someone once said if an Aborigine drafted the IQ test the West would effectively fail.

Parker isn't on Pym's level. I doubt he's smarter than T'Challa either.

Age is relevant to my examples.What took Pym years to do was a weekend project for Parker.That Helmet is one of Pym's prized creations. Parker had already created a similar effect and in less than half the time.As far as the IQ test that he and Reed took it's a fictional test in comic books that was used to show how smart Parker was if "great minds" didn't put any value in it (from a comic writing standpoint) it wouldn't have been mentioned.Pym is the scientist supreme for the way he uses science not because he's smarter than all other "scientists", Eternity even agreed with him that Reed was smarter than him and Pym himself suggested that Iron Man was smarter than him and Eternity explained why he chose Pym over him and it's not because he's smarter.To clarify I wasn't bring up the feat with the Spider-Tracer to suggest that Parker is smarter than Pym (although he says it out of his own mouth) but to show that he can create things that rival the creations of other Intellects in the Marvel Universe.

No it is not. Age and Time are too different concepts. You're talking time not age. Who's to say Parker didn't use Pym's research. Don't blame the ignorance of writers on the characters. You act as if there hasn't been instances in comics where information and concepts were misconstrued. Case and point, the value of IQ test. I know, I only said he was Scientist Supreme because you mention these "accolades" that Peter has. Doesn't get much bigger than Eternity tell you you're the man. I don't think anyone is arguing that Pym is smarter than Reed. No one is. Tony is debatable. Heroes are modest and do that "Ohh no, you're better than me" bull all the time. How does the Spider-Tracer rival an artificially designed alternate dimension that houses disembodied consciousnesses and simulates the perfect existence for them?

#61 Posted by Captain Danvers (149 posts) - - Show Bio
@XMASCATEXE said:

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

T'Challa made an inertia robbing forcefield out of common household items in his current series. Much more complex than web shooters. Again, got any more feats?

Also Parker took an I.Q. test and his scores were equal to that of Reed Richards when Reed Richards was that age.

Not sure why I'm dropping it but the sake of contention I guess using Reed as a measuring stick is bad form, for one being as smart as Reed at an age doesn't make one as smart as he is now.

More though Reed is promoted as " the genius " much as the way Einstein was ins reality, therefore the assumption that no one is his equal. Likewise using him as a point in another characters defense against Pym is bad as Pym beat Reed in a battle of wits specifically designed to defeat Pyms intellect.

@Wise Son said:

The man was deemed Scientific Supreme of Earth by Eternity after all.

after Pym changed himself to the degree to find Eternity, meet and be deemed this in person. That moment is a little hard to deny really.

Peter is up there though, I wouldn't stand against that but, see my statement in my Skrull account, as well as that image Morpheus posted of Iron Man. Again, it wasn't a ranked list, nor an actual list of the smartest people on Earth. It was a list of the persons who specifically fit the Intelligencia's agenda in for their plan in World War Hulks, in order of who was to be dealt with when.

Why can't anyone just acknowledge that it's a good showing of Spider-Man's intellect? I wasn't trying to suggest that Spider-Man was equal to Reed. Obviously he would have gotten smarter over the years which is why I mentioned that Parker is younger than most characters that are being suggested as top level geniuses (accept Cho).
#62 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_: Yes, well that's exactly what I meant. Banner's statement is much more objective due to the fact that he isn't talking about his own position, but instead he is talking about someone else's. Furthermore, even among the brilliant minds of the Marvel U, Banner is unique due to the things he has to deal with [Hulk] and isn't as preoccupied as some of the others. That's my understanding at least, I read little to no Hulk.

On another note, on thing that always bothered me is how all of the greatest minds in the Marvel U are always Superheroes or Villains, its like everyone that is intelligent sees the light and decides that being a hero or villain is the thing they have to do. Its not like the smartest people in the world could just be scientists. Hell, they could even appear as supporting cast, but why do they have to be superheroes too?

#63 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:

Heroes are modest and do that "Ohh no, you're better than me" bull all the time.

For the sake of clarity, this was not one of those instances. Pym was thinking to himself. And it was by the same writer (Dan Slott) who penned the Scientist Supreme scene.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Whether the statement is true or not can be debated, but it's not dismissible, IMO.
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#64 Edited by XMASCATEXE (135 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers:

Peter is up there though, I wouldn't stand against that but

And again my stance..

I don't recall the Intelligencia's list ever being ranked, just in order and persons of key interest to their plans. Noting that none of the Intelligencia themselves where on the list, not even M.O.D.O.K. Noting that Beast himself had a similar go to list of people he rated well above himself during Endangered Species, which included his own doppleganger Dark Beast, who is actually smarter than himself and proven so. It also included the High Evolutionary, Pandemic, Sinister, Arnim Zola, ect. You can take that a step farther and analyze the characters present Council Of Doom, in X-Club, and so on and make arguments for where they rate here. in the I think people read way to into stuff like this, and comical humor in statements made by characters as much as they do things like Omega levels in mutants, Spider-man making a sarcastic joke about Sentry and Galactus. Think about this, if you can name characters that actually exceed any on this list, then you know that because Marvel knows that, and if they do then what you saw there isn't what your assuming it to be. In short, this is not, and was not an actual list of the smartest characters on Marvel 616 Earth, so the point is moot.

Peter is up there though, I wouldn't stand against that but, see my statement in my Skrull account, as well as that image Morpheus posted of Iron Man. Again, it wasn't a ranked list, nor an actual list of the smartest people on Earth. It was a list of the persons who specifically fit the Intelligencia's agenda in for their plan in World War Hulks, in order of who was to be dealt with when.

People, this was just as was. A list made by the Intelligencia of specific foes they needed for a plan, and specifically characters that were free to use in that story arc. Marvel did not make a list of the exact top intelligent characters on Marvel Earth. The readers read to much into it, got fired up about it and spread it into something it isn't. I can tell you that an easy 70% of the persons I've ever seen talk about this just by the details of their opinions didn't even read the story anyways. The characters made jokes about the list in the comics because it was such a popular item. Unless anyone is seriously going to tell me that Jeph Loeb determined and writ in stone the exact most intelligent Marvel characters in his celebrated Red Hulk comic and Marvel and the world wholeheartedly agrees ? Because that's what's is being suggested and debated over hear. I encourage anyone to choose what they wish, likewise I have no right to tell any of you otherwise, but think about all that for a moment.

#65 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

I read that too. I think its true.

#66 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@XMASCATEXE said:

The characters made jokes about the list in the comics because it was such a popular item. Unless anyone is seriously going to tell me that Jeph Loeb determined and writ in stone the exact most intelligent Marvel characters in his celebrated Red Hulk comic and Marvel and the world wholeheartedly agrees ?

At the end of the day, I think that's all that needs to be said.
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#67 Posted by Captain Danvers (149 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:

No it is not. Age and Time are too different concepts. You're talking time not age. Who's to say Parker didn't use Pym's research. Don't blame the ignorance of writers on the characters. You act as if there hasn't been instances in comics where information and concepts were misconstrued. Case and point, the value of IQ test. I know, I only said he was Scientist Supreme because you mention these "accolades" that Peter has. Doesn't get much bigger than Eternity tell you you're the man. I don't think anyone is arguing that Pym is smarter than Reed. No one is. Tony is debatable. Heroes are modest and do that "Ohh no, you're better than me" bull all the time. How does the Spider-Tracer rival an artificially designed alternate dimension that houses disembodied consciousnesses and simulates the perfect existence for them?

Age and time are two different concepts but Spider-Man created that tracer when he was a kid. Like everyone else in the Marvel Universe his intellect would have grown over time. He did in his adolescence what Pym struggled to do as an adult when he's had more time to do the research and more time to expand his knowledge.The idea that Parker used Pym's research is reaching at it's finest. If that was the case don't you think it would have been mentioned somewhere? Most importantly during a conversation they were having about it? Nobody said anything about the Spider-Tracer rivaling an alternate dimension. It does however rival that helmet that Pym spent years on..you know because they have a similar application...
#68 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Morpheus_ said:

@Wise Son said:

Heroes are modest and do that "Ohh no, you're better than me" bull all the time.

For the sake of clarity, this was not one of those instances. Pym was thinking to himself. And it was by the same writer (Dan Slott) who penned the Scientist Supreme scene.
















Whether the statement is true or not can be debated, but it's not dismissible, IMO.

Thanks for the scan. Hmm, that seem a tad bit too melodramatic for my taste. Perhaps you could provide some context for this scan. If this is just a throwaway run in the writer attached way to much gravity to this situation for it to feel organic. Well, Pym has a history of self deprecating behavior. Maybe this one just another instance?

#69 Posted by Wise Son (1772 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

No it is not. Age and Time are too different concepts. You're talking time not age. Who's to say Parker didn't use Pym's research. Don't blame the ignorance of writers on the characters. You act as if there hasn't been instances in comics where information and concepts were misconstrued. Case and point, the value of IQ test. I know, I only said he was Scientist Supreme because you mention these "accolades" that Peter has. Doesn't get much bigger than Eternity tell you you're the man. I don't think anyone is arguing that Pym is smarter than Reed. No one is. Tony is debatable. Heroes are modest and do that "Ohh no, you're better than me" bull all the time. How does the Spider-Tracer rival an artificially designed alternate dimension that houses disembodied consciousnesses and simulates the perfect existence for them?

Age and time are two different concepts but Spider-Man created that tracer when he was a kid. Like everyone else in the Marvel Universe his intellect would have grown over time. He did in his adolescence what Pym struggled to do as an adult when he's had more time to do the research and more time to expand his knowledge.The idea that Parker used Pym's research is reaching at it's finest. If that was the case don't you think it would have been mentioned somewhere? Most importantly during a conversation they were having about it? Nobody said anything about the Spider-Tracer rivaling an alternate dimension. It does however rival that helmet that Pym spent years on..you know because they have a similar application...

Honestly I think that was bad writing. One is more realistic than the other. This being comic books that often doesn't mean much. This point of contention comes down to a matter of opinion on the writing. We're not going to get any further on that one. Is it anymore of a stretch than Peter designing something it took the well versed Pym years in weeks? Some things happen off panel. *shurgs*. If I'm not mistaken you were trying to make the case in an earlier post that the Spider-Tracer was a good showing that rivaled the others on this list. It doesn't hold a candle to some of the stuff Tony, Pym and Reed has accomplished. I'll give you that last part.

#70 Posted by Morpheus_ (29873 posts) - - Show Bio
@Wise Son said:

Thanks for the scan. Hmm, that seem a tad bit too melodramatic for my taste. Perhaps you could provide some context for this scan. If this is just a throwaway run in the writer attached way to much gravity to this situation for it to feel organic. Well, Pym has a history of self deprecating behavior. Maybe this one just another instance?

He was outlining his endeavors in the original years of the Avengers, and how he regarded himself as the most intelligent man in the room, at least initially, only to find out that to be untrue when he realized Tony was Iron Man. It could be viewed as self-depreciating, even though Cho later spends a page outlining Iron Man's misgivings during Civil War and WWH to make Pym feel better, but without denying Tony may very well be Hank's superior. Speaking of self-depreciating, I'm not sure that was Pym's mood, though, earlier on in the same issue he says this:
  
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


The overarching theme of the issue was his hesitance regarding his leadership skills, not his raw intellect.
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#71 Posted by ReVamp (22865 posts) - - Show Bio

CATEXE got it.

#72 Posted by tyciol (30 posts) - - Show Bio

@FadeToBlackBolt said:

@Captain Danvers said:
@FadeToBlackBolt said:
He was the 7th, then Pym came back and he was bumped down to 8. The bios were written before Secret Invasion and Pym's return.
Doesn't make sense. Pym was always considered one of the great minds in the Marvel Universe. So why would his return change where Cho ranks? DOA he's still a top level genius.I don't know whether it's Hank or Black Panther but one of them isn't smarter than Cho.
You don't count dead people when you're counting the smartest people on Earth. They're all smarter than Cho. He's eighth.


Screenshots like this with actual quotes appear to be very good resources for resolving these debates. I think ideally if we could gather them and present them in chronilogical order (along with notes such as various people being dead/gone at the time) they could be arranged in an elusive way.

Especially when I hear things like Pym saying Parker's smarter than him? Does this count, or can a genius be overly humble?

It seems like much of it might come down to opinion. Humble genius would rank himself lower, arrogant genius (say Doom) would rank himself higher.

#73 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers: @Captain Danvers said:

@ReVamp said:

@FadeToBlackBolt: Black Panther is the eigth smartest person I believe, according to his most recent series. I'll check it, but I believe Parker "asked" him if he was 9th and he said he was 8th.

To be perfectly honest I think Parker is smarter than T'Challa.

You're Kidding right? o.O

#74 Posted by GodDamnIronMan (1553 posts) - - Show Bio

@Captain Danvers said:

@Wise Son said:

I disagree. What has Parker done? I have been out of the ol' Webhead's loop for a while.I'm talking early 2000s.

For starters he created those web-shooters he uses every day.

Stark can create one when he's at Primary school

#75 Edited by EDJ (6 posts) - - Show Bio

Yea probably a mistake. Dude seems to be very intelligent. I considered stark and tchalla smarter because they actually have cool lives outside of the lab. Lol

#76 Edited by kostisfire (120 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't get why people don't consider Peter one of the smartest people on earth. You say that he doesn't have many feats when compared to the ther big brains. Oh I dunno why is that. Maybe because: he's around he's mid twenties (since Stark is 30 something as said in the new iron man series), he never had any resources, he never had any time and is the unluckiest person. Let' examine these things, shall we?

He began his career when he fifteen. He was living in Queens, with barely any money, while trying to balance both his superhero and regular life. At day he was at school (many times he had to suit up so he missed classes), after that he had to either work at bugle, do homework or battle supervillains until the next day.

His resources were limited. Veeeery limited. Also, he didn't have a genius for a relative to guide him. He also missed classes. How was he supossed to know all the stuff he missed? Would the Holy Spirit plant them in his head (it's a saying)? He had to study alone in his very limited time.

Now, let's look at the other geniuses:

Stark grew up with everything and had a genius for a father. His parents saw that (according to the secret origin it was orchestrated to happen) and sent him at MIT at Peter's age. Peter could have gone there had his parents tested his intellect.

T'Challa grew up as the son of the king of the most advanced nation in the world. 'Nuff said.

The one who matches Peter the most in Doom. He grew up with no resources and without anyone particularly smart around him. And yet, around 18-19 he could make grenades and various other small weapons. All of that with the help of sorcery. Add to that that he had ample time. Did he create his time platform while he was at the gypsy camp? No, because he did not have the necessary resources. Did he create his doombots there? No. He took classes, had the best the US had to offer, as well as time and money.

I love how people say that "he could make an advanced weapon from his groceries because he's so smart". Really? Just because someone's smart doesn't mean that he can make a time platform out of a banana, a milk carton and a can of dog food. A banana's a banana and a carton of milk is a carton of milk.

Also, you say he has no feats. Wasn't he the guy who harnessed (he managed to use the cube to bring wolvie back to life) the cosmic cube while in a post apocalyptic future (it's been a long time since i last read wolvie/spidey so pardon any mistakes)? Didn't he make his webshooters and the tracer that could tap into his spidey sense when he was 15? While Doom, with the help of sorcery was making weapons around 18. And building a weapon is easier than discoverin something new and adapting. Nothing like Spidey's tracer was ever done. Doom had source material for his weapons.

Reed is the smartest, that's no lie. But you can't really compare a kid from Queens to grown men who have evrything at their disposal. What did Banner do before entering a lab? Did he make his own atomic bomb when he was 18 years old? No. Yet he is one of the smartest people on earth. You want to know why the have so many feats and spider-man does not? Because these guys are all about science. That's the basis of their character. Spidey's character is: everyman first, street hero second, genius third. People don't give attention to his scientific side and that's why he has no feats. But the feats he has are more than enough to earn him a spot up there with the big boys. And come on, you accept Cho, a guy who does nothing other than say "i'm the 7th smartest guy" having a spot in the top ten and Peter not?

For anyone who cares, here's my top 5 list (heroes only)-EDIT: After a little dweling on my old im comics i'll have to change it a bit.

1-Reed/Valeria

2-Pym

3-Stark

4-Banner

5-Peter

1-Doom/Thanos

2-Leader

3-High Evolutionary

4-Mr. Sinister

5-Ock/Apocalypse

There are many genius villains and heroes but honestly,most of them are just talk,talk,talk.

#77 Posted by CyberWarrior (1552 posts) - - Show Bio

Totally an error. Stark is at least in the smartest 5, so this can't be true.

#78 Posted by DHIngram (2 posts) - - Show Bio

Why isn't Forge on the list? He is a Technomancer, by mutation.

#79 Posted by Squares (7507 posts) - - Show Bio

@dhingram said:

Why isn't Forge on the list? He is a Technomancer, by mutation.

Yeah, he has the mutant power of invention, not super-intellect.

#80 Posted by DHIngram (2 posts) - - Show Bio

@squares: Yeah, he has the mutant power of invention, not super-intellect.

But Stark's super intellect is totally focused on technology. Forge has a mutant power for making super technology. Same ballpark, imo. Tell me Forge couldn't create the Iron-Man armor. I dare you. I bet he could do better. And what does Stark's super intellect do OUTSIDE of high tech, really? They seem VERY similar, to me.

#81 Posted by Squares (7507 posts) - - Show Bio
@dhingram said:

@squares: Yeah, he has the mutant power of invention, not super-intellect.

But Stark's super intellect is totally focused on technology. Forge has a mutant power for making super technology. Same ballpark, imo. Tell me Forge couldn't create the Iron-Man armor. I dare you. I bet he could do better. And what does Stark's super intellect do OUTSIDE of high tech, really? They seem VERY similar, to me.

Tony Stark doesn't have super-intellect, he's just a very intelligent human.

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