Iron Man Extremis

#1 Edited by Porter (84 posts) - - Show Bio

Who likes Extremis? Who doesn't? Why?

#2 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

Ok, I kinda jacked this thread, but it wasn't being used (the post had already been deleted before I changed it) and I don't like making threads. I just want to know people's thoughts on Extremis since apparently some people really don't like it. I think it was a good change and one that seems to follow the progression of Iron Man (at least on the surface, I only really got into him with the Extremis arc so I may be missing points of his deeper character.) Tony is a guy who wears a super advanced suit of armor. His superhero thing is "tech guy". I think it makes sense that he gain the ability to connect with technology on a closer level. And Extremis works as part of his constant upgrade. I feel like you can only upgrade the suit itself so much before it becomes its own thing. If his body can't keep up with what's needed to get the best out of the suit it would quickly become more like a spaceship that he pilots than something he's actually a part of. I think Extremis is just an upgrade that makes him more of what he already is, just in a new way (changing his body instead of just the armor).

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#3 Posted by Lunacyde (19458 posts) - - Show Bio

I really don't mind the extremis...I mean sure it gives him a whole new level of power and such and now he can do a lot of really ridiculous things and I don't necessarily think he should be able to take on some of the people he does, but hey it doesnt really bother me too much...I just don't like Iron Man in general his character is kind of a deush bag....pardon my language.

#4 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Lunacyde said:
"I really don't mind the extremis...I mean sure it gives him a whole new level of power and such and now he can do a lot of really ridiculous things and I don't necessarily think he should be able to take on some of the people he does, but hey it doesnt really bother me too much...I just don't like Iron Man in general his character is kind of a deush bag....pardon my language."
Take some of the people he does? Like who? He's been getting owned by people weaker than him since Civil War....
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#5 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

It is a slap in the face to an iconic hero.

What makes tony stark special is the same thing that makes batman special there just men thats it yet the stand by GODS and defeat them with nothing other than wit brains and the human spirit. Stark makes the armor and becomes a modern knight fueled by advancing tech and innovation. Thats great now while you would say that the combining of man and machine is the natural corse for him then I would say what makes him different than CYBORG robo cop or anyother sci fi freak show? Hes tony stark hes not some cyborg hes a guy with genuis IQ and a drinking problem and through his brains is a mighty hero. now this extremis business makes him the greek god of tech! I dont care what anyone says it gives him POWERS no suit needed.  It makes him like a living matrix guy walking around hacking and talking to tech and pcs all day while wearing a three piece suit! he becomes a living machine hes not a man any more. it goes aginst the whole of his character.

I think of batman sometimes and wonder ....."why doesnt he just make a suit like tonys and fly around punching and lifting tons of weight like superman" the answer is because it goes aginst his whole MO hes batman not superman. Stark the same thing he at this point may as well be a mutant with the power over tech or some guy of the HEROES TV show. It sucks

#6 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio

For me Iron Man was always a man in an armored suit.  Now he is a cyborg and not so much a man.  I dont have a problem with cyborgs and I know that over time, the natural progression of technology might take this man who has had to be kept alive by his armor in the past, to finally becoming even more closely related to that armor.  Have it be more a part of him.  But for me that takes away from what he is.

Its hard to come up with a correlation.  I know they did a similar thing with Fixer and took him from being a geniusly inventive tinkerer and changed him into the living machine Techno.  I disliked that change as well but I have just as much trouble explaining why in that instance.

Maybe its a man vs machine outlook that I carry.  Maybe to me its like they are giving up their humanity to become more and more a machine.  Younger generations probably thing that's cool, but maybe it doesnt have anything to do with age.  Maybe it's just my outlook on things.

I remember watching Ghost in the Shell, where they were addressing this very question.  What makes one human?  Can that humanity be lost?  To me, humanity can be lost, even though the only thing that makes you human is your soul.  Surely he would hold on to that, even if every bit of his body was inorganic... but maybe he wouldnt.  Where is the man who struggled with alcoholism?  The man who struggled with living up to the outer shell that everyone saw.  His best comics were a study in failing to be what everyone saw him as.  Even Machine Man was disappointed in discovering that Iron Man wasn't another machine, as he had so long suspected, but simply a man.  A drunken, waste of a man pretending to be a hero.

I guess I loved the struggle they portrayed and fear that will be lost.

#7 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio

I think Extremis is the best thing Marvel could have done with Iron Man.I like how now his suit is basically a part of him and he's not just "A MAN IN A SUIT".He is actually Iron Man now.I mean before it was cool how he was just a mere human yet he was competing with superheroes with actual powers and superhuman attributes.Extremis is quite and advancement on to his tech.The funny thing about it is..he's not even the creator of the Extremis virus..Maya Hensen is.Tony made his own variation of it to not only save his own life because he was dying but to make the armor he had already built work.This was like the second Origin for Iron Man..he was dying before with the shrapnel in his chest..and he built the first Iron Man suit.

I like where Tony's storyline is going..he has so much responsibility and power on his shoulders..and he seems to be cracking under the pressure..making bad decision after bad decision,but he makes up for it in the end by saving the world.I also like how people compete with him with tech and the extremis virus is still out there which is his worse nightmare..that someone will make a better Iron Man than him and he will be obsolete.Overall I think Tony is a good character,and if he survives Secret Invasion I can't wait to see what new upgrades he comes up with.
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#8 Posted by Lunacyde (19458 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"It is a slap in the face to an iconic hero.

What makes tony stark special is the same thing that makes batman special there just men thats it yet the stand by GODS and defeat them with nothing other than wit brains and the human spirit. Stark makes the armor and becomes a modern knight fueled by advancing tech and innovation. Thats great now while you would say that the combining of man and machine is the natural corse for him then I would say what makes him different than CYBORG robo cop or anyother sci fi freak show? Hes tony stark hes not some cyborg hes a guy with genuis IQ and a drinking problem and through his brains is a mighty hero. now this extremis business makes him the greek god of tech! I dont care what anyone says it gives him POWERS no suit needed.  It makes him like a living matrix guy walking around hacking and talking to tech and pcs all day while wearing a three piece suit! he becomes a living machine hes not a man any more. it goes aginst the whole of his character.

I think of batman sometimes and wonder ....."why doesnt he just make a suit like tonys and fly around punching and lifting tons of weight like superman" the answer is because it goes aginst his whole MO hes batman not superman. Stark the same thing he at this point may as well be a mutant with the power over tech or some guy of the HEROES TV show. It sucks"
Very good points
#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Forever said:
"For me Iron Man was always a man in an armored suit.  Now he is a cyborg and not so much a man.  I dont have a problem with cyborgs and I know that over time, the natural progression of technology might take this man who has had to be kept alive by his armor in the past, to finally becoming even more closely related to that armor.  Have it be more a part of him.  But for me that takes away from what he is.

Its hard to come up with a correlation.  I know they did a similar thing with Fixer and took him from being a geniusly inventive tinkerer and changed him into the living machine Techno.  I disliked that change as well but I have just as much trouble explaining why in that instance.

Maybe its a man vs machine outlook that I carry.  Maybe to me its like they are giving up their humanity to become more and more a machine.  Younger generations probably thing that's cool, but maybe it doesnt have anything to do with age.  Maybe it's just my outlook on things.

I remember watching Ghost in the Shell, where they were addressing this very question.  What makes one human?  Can that humanity be lost?  To me, humanity can be lost, even though the only thing that makes you human is your soul.  Surely he would hold on to that, even if every bit of his body was inorganic... but maybe he wouldnt.  Where is the man who struggled with alcoholism?  The man who struggled with living up to the outer shell that everyone saw.  His best comics were a study in failing to be what everyone saw him as.  Even Machine Man was disappointed in discovering that Iron Man wasn't another machine, as he had so long suspected, but simply a man.  A drunken, waste of a man pretending to be a hero.

I guess I loved the struggle they portrayed and fear that will be lost."
I think Iron Man is more of a techno-organism than a Cyborg.
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#10 Posted by Forever (4332 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"I think Iron Man is more of a techno-organism than a Cyborg."

Which is practically the same thing, though if you are saying that his mechanical and human parts are far better meshed and much more of a whole than a typical cyborg would be, then I agree with that.
#11 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Forever said:
"Vance Astro said:
"I think Iron Man is more of a techno-organism than a Cyborg."

Which is practically the same thing, though if you are saying that his mechanical and human parts are far better meshed and much more of a whole than a typical cyborg would be, then I agree with that."
Well no I mean even some of his technological parts have characteristics of a living organism.
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#12 Posted by Lantern Prime (13044 posts) - - Show Bio

I just like Ironman right now because of what he did to Captain America and the New Avengers.

#13 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

I can see where you guys are coming from, I just don't agree. Iron Man has always had powers in my mind. I've never seen him (even before I started reading his comics and just saw him in other books) as the "human that stands next to gods" or whatever. That was always Captain for me (even though I really don't consider everything he does as human, or even "peak" human). I've seen iron Man as the brilliant man with tech, connections and resources, so it doesn't bother me when I see the tech become internalized, the connections spread from people to machines, and the resources becoming technology all around him instead of just things he can buy or make on his own.  As a man almost always ahead of his time, changing himself in a way that puts him ahead of others even when he's outside the suit doesn't rub me the wrong way. I don't think his humanity is in danger because of it either. From what I've read that's still intact and if anything is more likely to be played up in the future than forgotten now that he can struggle with the question of, "am I a man or a machine?" if they want him to.  And he still has his problems. Drinking can come up again (that didn't have anything to do with Extremis), and with his current position and the stress involved, he's sure to have more personal problems. How he deals with people, getting them on his side and making them trust him is a very human problem that he still has. He also struggles with doing what he thinks is right when no one else agrees, and the ramifications of that.

I've always thought computers and machines were cool though so maybe that shapes my thoughts as much as the question of humanity shapes you guys'. And like I said before, I haven't been reading iron man on his own for a long time so maybe I'm just not seeing the difference because of that.

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#14 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"

I can see where you guys are coming from, I just don't agree. Iron Man has always had powers in my mind. I've never seen him (even before I started reading his comics and just saw him in other books) as the "human that stands next to gods" or whatever. That was always Captain for me (even though I really don't consider everything he does as human, or even "peak" human). I've seen iron Man as the brilliant man with tech, connections and resources, so it doesn't bother me when I see the tech become internalized, the connections spread from people to machines, and the resources becoming technology all around him instead of just things he can buy or make on his own.  As a man almost always ahead of his time, changing himself in a way that puts him ahead of others even when he's outside the suit doesn't rub me the wrong way. I don't think his humanity is in danger because of it either. From what I've read that's still intact and if anything is more likely to be played up in the future than forgotten now that he can struggle with the question of, "am I a man or a machine?" if they want him to.  And he still has his problems. Drinking can come up again (that didn't have anything to do with Extremis), and with his current position and the stress involved, he's sure to have more personal problems. How he deals with people, getting them on his side and making them trust him is a very human problem that he still has. He also struggles with doing what he thinks is right when no one else agrees, and the ramifications of that.

I've always thought computers and machines were cool though so maybe that shapes my thoughts as much as the question of humanity shapes you guys'. And like I said before, I haven't been reading iron man on his own for a long time so maybe I'm just not seeing the difference because of that.

"
i completely agree with this and now that you mentioned drinking...he did almost take a drink during Civil War because of the pressure he was under but I don't know if Marvel will explore his alcoholism again.The fact he helped Carol stop drinking and what he said after the Demon in the Bottle saga leads me to believe they are done with that...but you never know.
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#15 Posted by Buckshot (18925 posts) - - Show Bio

They might want new demons for him to battle. "New and different" isn't always better, but characters grow over time and sometimes you just need to move on and explore new ground. (Or maybe if he goes back to it they want it to be a huge deal so they're giving it more time.)

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#16 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
Buckshot said:
"They might want new demons for him to battle. "New and different" isn't always better, but characters grow over time and sometimes you just need to move on and explore new ground. (Or maybe if he goes back to it they want it to be a huge deal so they're giving it more time.)"
Well I think what they are doing now with Obadiah Stane and Extremis is a great challenge for Iron Man to overcome...because not that he has the great new armor thanks to this virus..he has to worry about other people getting a hold of the virus and making a better Iron Man..and it seems Obadiah has created a better suit than what he created with Extremis when he recently be him in the latest issue in volume 5.Basically his worst nightmare or Iron Man becoming obsolete is coming true.
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#17 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

This is an issue that really stains him as a character. You cant help but think that this evolution is just a bit too much even IF it is his natural progression.  I think if iron Man was presented to the masses (and by that I mean in MOVIE form) with this techno virus cyborg stuff
most would consider it a lame matrix  rip and despite being  a comic fan and one who likes  the character I would  totally agree.

Bottom line Iconic hero should not be messed with to take them out of the context in which they were made.

#18 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
most would consider it a lame matrix  rip and despite being  a comic fan and one who likes  the character I would  totally agree.

What?
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#19 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
most would consider it a lame matrix  rip and despite being  a comic fan and one who likes  the character I would  totally agree.

What?"
being able to hack and talk to pc's, servers, and various tech is just like matrix.  He may as walk on to battle field roll his eyes and tell the avengers hes uploaded the tech of how to open a black hole from those guys in Europe so he can open it and put Doom in.  If non comic book fans saw that type of power in film form most would consider it lame and matrix esque.

I mean people rip on aqua man all the time cause he "talks to fish"
I mean it doesnt get much dorky er than talking to computer through your mind like a freakshow.
I could seeeeee soooo many people riping Iron man for that..
Also whats so IRON about nano tech virus? nothing mighty about that uh.
#20 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
most would consider it a lame matrix  rip and despite being  a comic fan and one who likes  the character I would  totally agree.

What?"
being able to hack and talk to pc's, servers, and various tech is just like matrix.  He may as walk on to battle field roll his eyes and tell the avengers hes uploaded the tech of how to open a black hole from those guys in Europe so he can open it and put Doom in.  If non comic book fans saw that type of power in film form most would consider it lame and matrix esque.

I mean people rip on aqua man all the time cause he "talks to fish"
I mean it doesnt get much dorky er than talking to computer through your mind like a freakshow.
I could seeeeee soooo many people riping Iron man for that..
Also whats so IRON about nano tech virus? nothing mighty about that uh.
"
The Virus doesn't define him...the suit does.The Virus makes the suit work.
The whole Matrix thing is kind of obscure...Iron Man isn't hacking teck he's communicating with it...the Matrix is something different entirely.Iron Man's version of Extremis that allows the whole technopathy thing too.
He hasn't really been "IRON" in years..he just keeps the name Iron Man for the nostalgia at this point.
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#21 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio

it still is pointless and is out of context to the character

#22 Posted by Erik (33329 posts) - - Show Bio

Iron Man is supposed to be a few steps ahead of current tech. This does seem to be the next logical step.

#23 Posted by Vance Astro (91368 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"it still is pointless and is out of context to the character"
I don't see how...
Iron Man was getting owned because his suit was too slow...he spent days and days trying to figure out how to make more dynamic..faster,stronger,better.He came up with nothing.
Luckily at the time..Maya Hensen...a new acquaintance of his had created the Extremis Virus..a techno-orgnaic Virus that would help humans live longer.Iron Man happened to be dying at some point..so he asked Maya for the virus..he used his genius to make his own version..thus working with the suit he couldn't get to work..it was missing something.Now we have the current Iron Man.Pointless? That's ridiculous...there is a point and the point is none of Iron Man's competitors have something like this and he is always in competition.
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#24 Posted by speedlgt (2109 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
"it still is pointless and is out of context to the character"
I don't see how...
Iron Man was getting owned because his suit was too slow...he spent days and days trying to figure out how to make more dynamic..faster,stronger,better.He came up with nothing.
Luckily at the time..Maya Hensen...a new acquaintance of his had created the Extremis Virus..a techno-orgnaic Virus that would help humans live longer.Iron Man happened to be dying at some point..so he asked Maya for the virus..he used his genius to make his own version..thus working with the suit he couldn't get to work..it was missing something.Now we have the current Iron Man.Pointless? That's ridiculous...there is a point and the point is none of Iron Man's competitors have something like this and he is always in competition.
"
well that was a touching story.
look ya like it good for you Erik likes it good for him
but dont try to deny thats its departure from what the guy is a MAN who builds an armor.

ok someone can lock this now.
#25 Edited by Duke Checkmate III (361 posts) - - Show Bio
speedlgt said:
"Vance Astro said:
"speedlgt said:
"it still is pointless and is out of context to the character"
I don't see how...
Iron Man was getting owned because his suit was too slow...he spent days and days trying to figure out how to make more dynamic..faster,stronger,better.He came up with nothing.
Luckily at the time..Maya Hensen...a new acquaintance of his had created the Extremis Virus..a techno-orgnaic Virus that would help humans live longer.Iron Man happened to be dying at some point..so he asked Maya for the virus..he used his genius to make his own version..thus working with the suit he couldn't get to work..it was missing something.Now we have the current Iron Man.Pointless? That's ridiculous...there is a point and the point is none of Iron Man's competitors have something like this and he is always in competition.
"
but dont try to deny thats its departure from what the guy is a MAN who builds an armor.
"
See now..it seems you don't like Extremis because you don't like Iron Man because this isn't even true.Iron Man still builds armor and munitions for SHIELD and the military..not mention vehicles and aircraft.He just created a team not to long ago of Iron Men...
#26 Posted by HaloKing343 (1252 posts) - - Show Bio
Vance Astro said:
I think Extremis is the best thing Marvel could have done with Iron Man.I like how now his suit is ... [more]

Totally.

I really like what they've done with Extremis. Obviously this is old news at this point since SI got rid of his power, but back when he had the enhancile, l really enjoyed all of his multitasking and his super powers. lt really made him an interesting character and the whole concept itself was really good.

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