World War Hulk Misconceptions: The Clean Up.

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Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

So a big claim for WWH is that Hulk in the story owned Marvel Earth. Well, it is true. But people tend to forget all the plot devices and the fact that certain people didn't really stand a chance in the first place. Since originally Citizenbane coupled with my scans was going to do this, I'm going to cover the fights that Hulk just walked through and ones where he was saved due to a plot device myself.

Hulk defeated the X-Men.

Yes, Hulk beat the X-Men but considering the whole team was full of people who weren't threats, is it really an accomplishment? The only available powerhouses were Rockslide, Colossus, Strong Guy, Juggernaut and Warpath. And the only other people that was really capable of hurting Hulk was Cyclops and Wolverine.

Rockslide is a 70 tonner so of course he is no threat. Strong Guy got overloaded and Warpath is a 25 tonner. He could do nothing.

Cyclops- Max with visor on was enough to damage Hulk but not enough to stop him.

Colossus being the only 1 of 2 solid class 100 characters didn't do more than lay a few hits which did nothing and in the end got his arms bent.

Wolverine- Severely weaker than the Hulk and could do no lasting damage to Hulk, of course Wolverine would get brain damaged.

Juggernaut- The only real threat here but due to Charles' intervention asking him to stop, not only distracted Cain but then when he ended up running through a wall and not turning around when he could have despite Charles' pleas does not give Hulk the win.

Defeating Black Bolt

Black Bolt was a skrull which are typically weaker than their regular versions. Hulk did not beat the real thing so therefore the feat can be omitted.

Defeating Iron Man

Typically I would say Hulk can beat Iron Man, even in Hulkbuster armor, but here Tony prepped for the encounter and has an actual way to win. But did Hulk beat a prepped Iron Man? Nope. Iron Man's prep involved nanites designed to supress superhuman powers. When they were sabotaged, the opportunity to stop Hulk was altered and Tony then got owned. An outside plot device stopped Tony from defeating the Hulk in the story and allowed the story to move on.

Defeating Reed Richards

So in all of this mess, the best he could come up with is a fake light that imitates Sentry's aura to try and calm Hulk down? So he didn't have a teleportation device to BFR Hulk, a gamma energy siphoner, or some time of containment field lying around or he couldn't have made one? Good job, Reed, you deserved the beat down you got for being stupid. Oxymoron right there considering Reed could have and should have a better device lying around or he could have made a better one, especially if he had T'Challa helping him.

Defeating Thing

Despite Thing's best efforts he couldn't damage Hulk enough. He walked over him and Thing wasn't a threat.

Defeating She-Hulk and Ares.

More characters that weren't threats, nothing to really be proud of. It was the same for most people Hulk faced. No one could just simply stand up to him.

Defeating Dr. Strange

Then we get someone who can. Zom Strange. So while Zom Strange was battering Hulk beyond belief, a plot device comes in. Strange realizes he is slipping and stops fighting allowing Hulk to beat him. So Hulk beats a guy that was kicking his butt around who stops fighting. Not really a win.

Defeating Ghost Rider

Some even say he beat Ghost Rider. He handled GR at first only due to Blaze acting as a saftey. Ghost Rider went unhinged and then....ran off. He ran off because the Illuminati were guilty. So we build up this epic point to where he would have beaten Hulk...but he rides away. Not a win.

Defeating Hercules

Some say Hulk beat Hercules in WWH....but what happened...wait for it....PLOT SHIELD!!! Hulk beat a Hercules who let him win. Whether you think Herc can't beat Hulk is irrelevant because the point is to show another instance of a fight involving a factor that let Hulk win...yet again.

Defeating Sentry

Here it comes...the infamous Sentry face punching contest. So for starters, Sentry wasn't exactly at full stability. What that means is Sentry's powers wain a bit similar to Gladiator's but not to that degree. Sentry wanted Hulk to actually hit him in the beginning hence why he is saying more. Sentry's primary objective in that fight was to defeat Hulk but also to let go for once. He purposely let Hulk hit him so he could have a chance to let loose. He then proceeded to brawl with Hulk despite having multiple reactionary and speed feats that put Hulk's to shame. If Sentry was actually trying to take Banner down, Hulk wouldn't have had any chance to touch him. So, if you actually think this is a truly legit fight, then think again. Sentry was not only hampered, was willingly let Hulk bash him in the face, he still ended up stalemating him and both burned out, but it was Banner (not Hulk) still standing. That is until another plot device with Rick getting stabbed and Banner Hulking back out to become WBH etc.

The End

So that's it for now. WWH in a nutshell for the big fights. I hope it cleared up any misconceptions about characters and the way the fights went down and if anyone tries to use some of these feats you now have the proper information to counter the misconstrued claims. And I do realize I might get flack for this from the Hulk fans buuuut I don't quite care.

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#1 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

Good thread, though for the X-Men it might be worth mentioning the failure of Darwin to absorb Hulk's energy and that he had to teleport away.

As for your alternatives for Mr. Fantastic, a radiation siphoner may not have worked if Darwin's powers couldn't do it, he might not have wanted to teleport Hulk away (similar to Dr Strange) as for a containment field, those have been known to fail from the stress of Hulks rage.

#2 Edited by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: I didn't bring up a lot that happened in the X-men fight just for the fact that none of them did nothing and couldn't do much of anything. I find there is a huge difference than what Darwin could have done vs what Reed could have done. Whether my alternatives like a containment field fail or he might not want to teleport Hulk away is irrelevant, that wasn't the point. The point is, Reed is a guy that has plans laying around for Galactus and he can't come up with a gamma siphoner much better than what Darwin turned into or some kind of device to bide more time against the Hulk? Ridiculous.

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#3 Posted by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: True, though Darwin's survival mutant powers came from the celestials so I would assume that if they can't do it, nor can Mr. Fantastic. As for buying time with a teleportation device, yes that would have worked.

#4 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: But it is just meant as a survival mechanism, he has no control over the effect and degree he develops and he has no energy manipulating feats that say the likes of Silver Surfer who has absorbed entire stars and manipulated energies that killed 2 Galactus level beings all while the Surfer was near death. I still find it a bit silly that Reed of all people ( along with T'Challa) couldn't have developed some device that at least lessens Hulk's energy in that state if not out right burn him out. Like I said, he has plans for things that are far beyond any threat Hulk could ever pose and T'Challa there would have just been gravy.

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#5 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@guttridgeb: And thank you for complimenting my blog in the first place.

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#6 Edited by guttridgeb (4831 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: True, and it was pretty stupid not to at least try as a back up plan.

#7 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

Thank you for putting this out. I really have never read any of it yet and you put it out so nicely that I know I gotta read it now. You truly are awesome, kind sir.

#8 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@RedheadedAtrocitus: Thank you. If you haven't read it yet, I'd advise you to read Planet Hulk too which sets up for World War Hulk. Both were good stories if you can get past the plot devices in WWH.

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#9 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: Oh I intend to, and the stories that essentially set up the Planet Hulk bit too. I got a lot to look forward to essentially ^^.

#10 Posted by Deranged Midget (17599 posts) - - Show Bio

World War Hulk was a pretty awesome read and I loved seeing Hulk put the beatdown on several of Marvel's heroes, but truly, he never beat Juggernaut, Zom, nor Sentry. It was all allowed due to story progression.

Excellent thread thought dude.

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#11 Posted by Jodez (150 posts) - - Show Bio

The Zom fight especially pissed me off

#12 Posted by cattlebattle (12585 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't want to start any fights or insult anyones hard work, tis a nice blog....but, what is it trying to justify exactly??? Take the X-Men battle for example, you wrote that they didn't have anyone marginally powerful for the fight in the first place, lets say that they did have some powerhouse or reality warper. It wouldn't have stopped WW Hulk from beating them anyways because that was the point in the first place.....WWHulk was a plot device.

#13 Posted by RedheadedAtrocitus (6885 posts) - - Show Bio

@cattlebattle: I think what he was trying to get at in this blog is detailing the nature of WWH's many seemingly one sided victories during the whole of this plot-device driven event. I think we are far too apt to say WWH/WBH was Banner's strongest incarnation of the Hulk due to all the victories he had and wanted to kind of debunk the idea that he universally kicked the whole of the MU's @$$ during this crossover through sheer strength alone and will, when its obvious in battles such as against 'Naut, Zom, and Sentry that he was having trouble. The victories he did have were either to exemplify adversaries that would have lost to him anyway due to whatever reason or due to stupid flaws and/or flukes, like Reed Richards getting turned into Laffy Taffy due to his inability to come out with a proper scientific device to fight WWH. Its not so much to belittle the victories as to really break down the events regarding WWH's kick@$$ery during the whole of the story. My favorite 'what if' regarding the event myself is what if Zarathos thought twice about taking off on his motorcycle and actually did fight WWH. Intriguing no?

#14 Posted by lykopis (10756 posts) - - Show Bio

Great layout and accompanying commentary. :)

#15 Posted by cmyers1980 (260 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for clearing things but do you think if it wasn't for plot devices The Hulk would lose against Juggernaut and Hercules?

#16 Posted by TheGoldenOne (38849 posts) - - Show Bio
@lykopis said:

Great layout and accompanying commentary.

#17 Posted by GLExpert (100 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I read the story where Sentry fought Hulk. What do you mean Sentry wasn't fully stable?

Sentry stood in his house for two days before finally deciding to go fight WWH.

#18 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17329 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: good thread, there were a few things i might not a agree on but overall it was awesome

#19 Posted by drgnx (3549 posts) - - Show Bio

Great Job :)

#20 Posted by moldybutt70 (87 posts) - - Show Bio

NICE thread. the next time hulk lovers want to rant on about how hulk beat most of the marvel universe, this should shut them up

#21 Posted by Fifthchild (587 posts) - - Show Bio

Meh. I have to say that, whatever reason you are claiming to do this, I look at this and I just see a longwinded attempt to downplay WWH and most of the stuff he did.

@god_spawn said:

So a big claim for WWH is that Hulk in the story owned Marvel Earth. Well, it is true. But people tend to forget all the plot devices and the fact that certain people didn't really stand a chance in the first place. Since originally Citizenbane coupled with my scans was going to do this, I'm going to cover the fights that Hulk just walked through and ones where he was saved due to a plot device myself.

Dont really see the big deal. Lets look at some other storylines where someone owned a whole bunch of people.

Thor: Blood & Thunder. BRB beats the f&*k out of Thor in the first issue. Thor is literally crawling around on the ground while BRB and the Surfer have a conversation. Of course eventually Thor gets up and blasts Bill and then beats up Surfer. But the whole thing could have ended there and then if not for the needs of the story.

Superman: OWAW. Superman and Doomsday are fighting heaps of probes. Imperiex shows up and disintegrates Doomsday. Superman is next....BUT....in the nick of time Darkseid boomtubes his ass out of there. Story wins again. Still, none of that means that these weren't stories where these guys kicked a lot of ass.

Hulk defeated the X-Men.

Yes, Hulk beat the X-Men but considering the whole team was full of people who weren't threats, is it really an accomplishment? The only available powerhouses were Rockslide, Colossus, Strong Guy, Juggernaut and Warpath. And the only other people that was really capable of hurting Hulk was Cyclops and Wolverine.

Can't agree with this. Sure there weren't any Class 200 powerhouses but thats not really what makes these guys dangerous and for all you people who love esoteric powersets being played up in imaginative ways this mini had that in spades. You had Hulk no-selling Xavier's psi (look at what Xavier just did to some of the Phoenix 5, Thor and everybody else in AvsX), resisting Gamma Drain by Darwin, being phased into the ground by Kitty (a similar move against Superman basically put him into shock), having his healing factor briefly turned off, Wolverine who is always dangerous, Hulk casually breaking Colossus' arms and then a full powered Juggernaut.

Colossus being the only 1 of 2 solid class 100 characters didn't do more than lay a few hits which did nothing and in the end got his arms bent.

Not really sure how Hulk pwning Colossus in a way that i dont think he has ever been pwned before is a mark against him.

Wolverine- Severely weaker than the Hulk and could do no lasting damage to Hulk, of course Wolverine would get brain damaged.

Wolverines claws have gone through people like Gladiator and Thanos like a knife through hot butter.

Juggernaut- The only real threat here but due to Charles' intervention asking him to stop, not only distracted Cain but then when he ended up running through a wall and not turning around when he could have despite Charles' pleas does not give Hulk the win.

Sure Hulk didn't get a clear win but he did pretty well against a guy who is supposed to be literally physically invulnerable and unstoppable once he begins moving. If Hulk didnt completely stop his charge he certainly slowed him to a barely perceptible crawl. Another terrible showing :-|

Defeating Black Bolt

Black Bolt was a skrull which are typically weaker than their regular versions. Hulk did not beat the real thing so therefore the feat can be omitted.

Yes Blackbolt was retconned to being a Skrull imposter but the Skrulls were not typically weaker than the real thing. They were, nominally at least, exact duplicates in terms of power. In the spirit of honesty though it is revealed that the Skrulls were unable to duplicate the full power of BBs voice but thats a full power that has served as the power source that has torn holes in reality more than once. Its one of the most formidable weapons in the Marvel Universe. And theres no reason to think that Skrullbolt couldnt do a hell of a lot of damage, as even 50% of the power of BBs voice is serious stuff. A mere whisper has taken out the Hulk several times in the past.

Defeating Iron Man

Typically I would say Hulk can beat Iron Man, even in Hulkbuster armor, but here Tony prepped for the encounter and has an actual way to win. But did Hulk beat a prepped Iron Man? Nope. Iron Man's prep involved nanites designed to supress superhuman powers. When they were sabotaged, the opportunity to stop Hulk was altered and Tony then got owned. An outside plot device stopped Tony from defeating the Hulk in the story and allowed the story to move on.

I think its a bit much to make a huge deal of a pretty minor point from one o the more obscure tie-ins. What do you think would have happened if the tech hadn't been sabotaged? Hulk no-sold a poison that was specifically engineered for his physiology in the same event just by getting mad enough. For all we know Stark may have had the basic engineering foresight to run a standard systems check before launching into combat that might just catch something like his nano-machinery weapon being completely empty and make adjustments. Still, hypotheticals aside, I think its pretty safe to say that the story could just as easily have moved on as it did for the 99% of people who read the main series and never touched the Initiative tie-in where Hulk just no-sold Tonys tech. Its silly to act like "that had to happen otherwise the Hulk would have been dead!"

Defeating Reed Richards

So in all of this mess, the best he could come up with is a fake light that imitates Sentry's aura to try and calm Hulk down? So he didn't have a teleportation device to BFR Hulk, a gamma energy siphoner, or some time of containment field lying around or he couldn't have made one? Good job, Reed, you deserved the beat down you got for being stupid. Oxymoron right there considering Reed could have and should have a better device lying around or he could have made a better one, especially if he had T'Challa helping him.

I will agree that Reed didn't have the best showing here. Still they can't all be Celestial beating machines and Reeds misadventures served to illustrate a plot point that Sentry's golden glow wouldnt pacify the Hulk anymore.

Defeating Thing

Despite Thing's best efforts he couldn't damage Hulk enough. He walked over him and Thing wasn't a threat.

Again, not really sure how this counts against Hulk or shows that he only won because "the writers were on his side" or whatever else you are trying to show here.

Defeating She-Hulk and Ares.

More characters that weren't threats, nothing to really be proud of. It was the same for most people Hulk faced. No one could just simply stand up to him.

Like the Thing I think the point is that he all but oneshot them. While not Class 100s these are repectable bricks and Hulk demolished them in one hit.

Defeating Dr. Strange

Then we get someone who can. Zom Strange. So while Zom Strange was battering Hulk beyond belief, a plot device comes in. Strange realizes he is slipping and stops fighting allowing Hulk to beat him. So Hulk beats a guy that was kicking his butt around who stops fighting. Not really a win.

Sure not a clean win. But Zom was insanely powerful. Apart from being someone who had to be chased off by the Living Tribunal himself in his previous appearance he could literally punch holes clean through the Hulk. Thats crazy. If you want to be literal about it Zeus doesnt really come close to that physical power. And then he set off magical fireworks in Hulks guts. And still - none of this put Hulk down. In fact Hulk was up, running around and talking just seconds later and when given half an opportunity he was punching the Zom right out of Strange.

Defeating Ghost Rider

Some even say he beat Ghost Rider. He handled GR at first only due to Blaze acting as a saftey. Ghost Rider went unhinged and then....ran off. He ran off because the Illuminati were guilty. So we build up this epic point to where he would have beaten Hulk...but he rides away. Not a win.

"would have beaten the Hulk"? Now whos getting ahead of themselves? The real GR comes out, theres a standoff and GR leaves. Its not a win but theres nothing to say that "GR was about to beat the Hulk". At all.

Defeating Hercules

Some say Hulk beat Hercules in WWH....but what happened...wait for it....PLOT SHIELD!!!

And now you are just getting silly. Did Hulk look like he needed a "plot shield" to beat Hercules? Really?

  • Also it was Hulk against Herc, Namorita and Angel.
  • Herc blocked one punch, then Hulk clocked him one putting Herc on the ground.
  • Before Hulk could hit him again Namorita is grabbing him from behind and Angel is blowing dust in his face.
  • Hulk throws her off and thunderclaps the dust away.
  • Herc gets back up and goes for a big double handed strike.
  • Hulk gets back up and at this point yes Herc seems to decide "Hmmm maybe i should try talking instead".
  • He eats two more punches and by this stage his face is swollen up and he cant stand up anymore.

So again its not a clean win but to claim there was some kind of "plot shield" to protect Hulk is ludicrous. If anything the "plot shield" served to salvage some pride for Herc (though the way he acted was indeed very noble). I also think its funny that you bring up the quote from Prince of Power where Banner says that Hercules was one of the few who had a prayer of beating him in WWH. Of course OTOH this is Banner speaking at Hercs funeral :-| I suppose it makes a better eulogy than Herc's "you could have split my skull open and killed us all but you didnt".

Hulk beat a Hercules who let him win. Whether you think Herc can't beat Hulk is irrelevant because the point is to show another instance of a fight involving a factor that let Hulk win...yet again.

Defeating Sentry

Here it comes...the infamous Sentry face punching contest. So for starters, Sentry wasn't exactly at full stability. What that means is Sentry's powers wain a bit similar to Gladiator's but not to that degree.

No it doesn't. You can try to find a piece of continuity that supports that statement but you wont be able to. Because its never been said that Sentry is less powerful when he is "less stable" Its something that gets said on Battleboards a lot mainly because lots of other people on Battlebaords say it a lot - in other words its a myth. Sentry's powers have been said (in Jenkins second mini) to go up and down with his emotions/confidence. And Sentry looked anything but lacking in confidence in his fight against Hulk. In fact he looked downright manic.

Sentry's powers have also been shown to be something that he can choose to access more of as seen in the first confrontation with Absorbing Man where Sentry willfully overloads him and, obviously most importantly, in WWH itself when he talks with Iron Man. In fact Sentry says that by accessing too much power he in fact runs the risk of losing control/becoming less stable. Bottom line - this was probably Sentry at his most powerful (barring the flagrant use of molecular manipulation). As the story more or less told us.

Sentry wanted Hulk to actually hit him in the beginning hence why he is saying more. Sentry's primary objective in that fight was to defeat Hulk but also to let go for once. He purposely let Hulk hit him so he could have a chance to let loose. He then proceeded to brawl with Hulk despite having multiple reactionary and speed feats that put Hulk's to shame. If Sentry was actually trying to take Banner down, Hulk wouldn't have had any chance to touch him.

This is the kind of battleboard thinking that doesnt have anything to do with actual fights in comics. Sentry was letting loose on Hulk with his fists but mostly with a massive sustained burst of EP - everything he had. He wasnt really trying to beat Hulk but Hulk wasnt particularly interested in fighting Sentry either. He just wanted to save everyone and its pretty clear that he is nowhere near as angry in this fight as he is in some of the other fights in the series.

So, if you actually think this is a truly legit fight, then think again. Sentry was not only hampered, was willingly let Hulk bash him in the face, he still ended up stalemating him and both burned out.

Yes. Hulk and Sentry burned each other out. Hulk burned out a reality manipulator who can bring people back from the dead, manhandle a team of Avengers, ignore all-out Mjolnir shots from Thor, possibly stalemated Galactus, and was pretty much the most powerful human this side of a grown-up Franklin Richards. What a disgrace.

That is until another plot device with Rick getting stabbed and Banner Hulking back out to become WBH etc.

Those pesky plot devices! Did you prefer the later revelation that Hulk can actually go Worldbreaker anytime he wants but of course he's just holding back?

The End

So that's it for now. WWH in a nutshell for the big fights. I hope it cleared up any misconceptions about characters and the way the fights went down and if anyone tries to use some of these feats you now have the proper information to counter the misconstrued claims. And I do realize I might get flack for this from the Hulk fans buuuut I don't quite care.

Well sadly I think it contained as many miscontrued claims as it attempted to shoot down. If it wasn't so onesided and determined to minimize anything that might have made Hulk "look good" then you might have had a more interesting piece of analysis.

#22 Posted by 80sBaby (1343 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fifthchild: You know he'll probably just ignore all of that and go on hating Hulk, right? But, nice job, anyways, buddy.

#23 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fifthchild:

Not all of it was about making Hulk look good or bad. It was just looking at the fight in detail.

Sentry not using molecular control and even allowing Hulk to smack him around "Just... like... that" tells me that he wasn't going all out. Maybe he wasn't quite in the mind set, but we'll never know.

Wolverine was able to pierce Hulk's skin (as was Cyclops and X-23). Yet Hulk still physically dominates him, via BFR or significantly powerful attacks. It's funny that a few hits from Hulk did more to Wolverine than what a flurry of hits from Spider-Man did more than a decade ago.

I think Blackbolt being retconned into a skrull was in part signifying him being weaker.

#24 Posted by _slim_ (13054 posts) - - Show Bio

Very nice.

#25 Posted by Fifthchild (587 posts) - - Show Bio

@80sBaby said:

@Fifthchild: You know he'll probably just ignore all of that and go on hating Hulk, right? But, nice job, anyways, buddy.

Thanks man.

@soduh2 said:

@Fifthchild:

Not all of it was about making Hulk look good or bad. It was just looking at the fight in detail.

It was another of a million posts on this site in the general theme of "OMG Hulk is not that powerful" which seems kind of unnecessary given that nobody seems to think Hulk is very powerful on comicvine. I just get a bit tired of it if only because it forces me into the role of perennial Hulk cheerleader when I come to this site.

Sentry not using molecular control and even allowing Hulk to smack him around "Just... like... that" tells me that he wasn't going all out. Maybe he wasn't quite in the mind set, but we'll never know.

Sentry didn't know he could do molecular control at that point in time so that doesn't really tell us anything. Yes Sentry gave Hulk free shots but that seemed to be more about showing how batshit insane he was and how much he was enjoying letting it all hang out powerwise with someone who could dish it out and take it. He wasnt going all out in the "use every power to maximum effect all at once with perfect tactics" sense but to me this was Sentry at his most powerful, albeit with a more limited view of what his actual powers and abilities were than he would later possess.

Wolverine was able to pierce Hulk's skin (as was Cyclops and X-23). Yet Hulk still physically dominates him, via BFR or significantly powerful attacks. It's funny that a few hits from Hulk did more to Wolverine than what a flurry of hits from Spider-Man did more than a decade ago.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't expect them to do more - I assume you meant less? Wolverine's durability has risen pretty sharply over the years and he usually has pretty top notch resistance to blunt force when facing big bruisers like Hulk whereas maybe less so against more street level characters. Just the nature of things.

I think Blackbolt being retconned into a skrull was in part signifying him being weaker.

I suppose from an in-story perspective but i really doubt that had anything to with the actual decision to have him a Skrull during WWH. Bendis had teased that one of the Illuminati might have been a Srull since as far back as forever in a way that would change a lot of Marvel history and in the end they copped out and fulfilled this promise in the most minimal way possible by having BB be a Skrull only since just before the last big event.

#26 Posted by Russel70 (58 posts) - - Show Bio

@Fifthchild said:

Not really sure how Hulk pwning Colossus in a way that i dont think he has ever been pwned before is a mark against him.

Its not, but I wouldn't put Colossus above savage Hulk, so a stronger version of Hulk beating him isn't a big deal

Wolverines claws have gone through people like Gladiator and Thanos like a knife through hot butter.

PIS much? Wolverines claws could barely scratch Thors cheek bone

Sure Hulk didn't get a clear win but he did pretty well against a guy who is supposed to be literally physically invulnerable and unstoppable once he begins moving. If Hulk didnt completely stop his charge he certainly slowed him to a barely perceptible crawl. Another terrible showing :-|

Invulnerable with his SHIELDS on, and I didn't see him charging anywhere. Hulk still looked like he was getting slightly overpowered nonetheless when they were locked in a standstill

Yes Blackbolt was retconned to being a Skrull imposter but the Skrulls were not typically weaker than the real thing. They were, nominally at least, exact duplicates in terms of power. In the spirit of honesty though it is revealed that the Skrulls were unable to duplicate the full power of BBs voice but thats a full power that has served as the power source that has torn holes in reality more than once. Its one of the most formidable weapons in the Marvel Universe. And theres no reason to think that Skrullbolt couldnt do a hell of a lot of damage, as even 50% of the power of BBs voice is serious stuff. A mere whisper has taken out the Hulk several times in the past.

The point being it was a weaker version of Black Bolt that could not dish out the same kind of damage. Not really impressive

I think its a bit much to make a huge deal of a pretty minor point from one o the more obscure tie-ins. What do you think would have happened if the tech hadn't been sabotaged? Hulk no-sold a poison that was specifically engineered for his physiology in the same event just by getting mad enough. For all we know Stark may have had the basic engineering foresight to run a standard systems check before launching into combat that might just catch something like his nano-machinery weapon being completely empty and make adjustments. Still, hypotheticals aside, I think its pretty safe to say that the story could just as easily have moved on as it did for the 99% of people who read the main series and never touched the Initiative tie-in where Hulk just no-sold Tonys tech. Its silly to act like "that had to happen otherwise the Hulk would have been dead!

Just because he has resisted similar stuff like that, doesn't mean he could do the same to what a highly intelligent guy like Iron Man had in mind. And if there was such a likely chance it would not have worked, what was the point of the sabotage? It's obvious to say it had a better chance of working than not, and it got sabotaged for plot reasons

I will agree that Reed didn't have the best showing here. Still they can't all be Celestial beating machines and Reeds misadventures served to illustrate a plot point that Sentry's golden glow wouldnt pacify the Hulk anymore.

Not the point. The fact remains that Reed is a guy who has dealt with FAR worse, and its nonsensical that he could not come up with anything better, or had anything around, to somehow deal with Hulk by himself easily, let alone with Black Panthers help

Again, not really sure how this counts against Hulk or shows that he only won because "the writers were on his side" or whatever else you are trying to show here.

Thats not what hes saying. All he meant was its not that impressive, not that it was a plot device

Like the Thing I think the point is that he all but oneshot them. While not Class 100s these are repectable bricks and Hulk demolished them in one hit.

Respectable bricks? Ares is a jobber, and who can't 1 shot she-hulk if they wanted to?

Sure not a clean win. But Zom was insanely powerful. Apart from being someone who had to be chased off by the Living Tribunal himself in his previous appearance he could literally punch holes clean through the Hulk. Thats crazy. If you want to be literal about it Zeus doesnt really come close to that physical power. And then he set off magical fireworks in Hulks guts. And still - none of this put Hulk down. In fact Hulk was up, running around and talking just seconds later and when given half an opportunity he was punching the Zom right out of Strange.

Sure, you could say it was impressive Hulk survived that kind of damage, despite it mostly being due to his healing factor. Again though, Hulk was getting demolished and probably would have been beat if not for Strange letting Hulk win

"would have beaten the Hulk"? Now whos getting ahead of themselves? The real GR comes out, theres a standoff and GR leaves. Its not a win but theres nothing to say that "GR was about to beat the Hulk". At all.

Pal, a full powered Ghost Rider can beat the Hulk. Easily. And that IS what would have happened, if not for him ruling Hulk innocent, because I guess not a single person was even harmed during the time where Hulk smashed all those buildings and houses

And now you are just getting silly. Did Hulk look like he needed a "plot shield" to beat Hercules? Really?

So again its not a clean win but to claim there was some kind of "plot shield" to protect Hulk is ludicrous. If anything the "plot shield" served to salvage some pride for Herc (though the way he acted was indeed very noble). I also think its funny that you bring up the quote from Prince of Power where Banner says that Hercules was one of the few who had a prayer of beating him in WWH. Of course OTOH this is Banner speaking at Hercs funeral :-| I suppose it makes a better eulogy than Herc's "you could have split my skull open and killed us all but you didnt".

Okay, I get you. I don't think Hulk needs a plot shield to fight Herc either, but the point was Hercules let him win, so it shouldn't be counted for anything

Yes. Hulk and Sentry burned each other out. Hulk burned out a reality manipulator who can bring people back from the dead, manhandle a team of Avengers, ignore all-out Mjolnir shots from Thor, possibly stalemated Galactus, and was pretty much the most powerful human this side of a grown-up Franklin Richards. What a disgrace.

And can you explain where this kind of power was shown here from Sentry? I don't care what happened, this fight proved to be a punch out with Sentry blitzing like once, nothing more, and they only stalemated. Based on Sentrys powers and other feats, if he really wanted to take down the Hulk, he could have done it with great ease

Well sadly I think it contained as many miscontrued claims as it attempted to shoot down. If it wasn't so onesided and determined to minimize anything that might have made Hulk "look good" then you might have had a more interesting piece of analysis.

I'm not sure why you think his main goal was to do that, as he many times just explained that it was not as impressive as people think, not claim everything was PIS, and I completely agree with him on almost all points

#27 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

1. Hulk matches stress proportionately with atomic power which is why he can be hurt but not killed. Hulk's cell mass just increases at the same pace as any stress inflicted in order to keep him alive. The Hulk can taken to the edge of death and not be completely destroyed because he is simultaneously building himself back up even stronger. That's what he does and that's what makes him the incredible, indestructible Hulk. Hulk is always pushed to the edge but since he grows at the same pace of the stress he experiences, he will always endure every kind of hurt but the end result is never his death.

2. Atoms are the fabric of reality. And yes, the universe does have endless atoms, therefore, limitless atomic energy, which is where Hulk draws his power from. Any interaction that causes Hulk stress such as molecular breakdown and reconstruction will only serve escalate his cellular mass/physical strength. Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk since Hulk manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible.

3. Attacking the Hulk anywhere, in any bodily systems and vital functions is useless because the final result is not a dead Hulk, just a stronger one.

Hulk can be messed with but he can't be stopped cold. Neither Sentry, Scarlet Witch, or Franklin Richards can do anything about it.

#28 Posted by Rumble Man (11119 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001:

Neither Sentry, Scarlet Witch, or Franklin Richards can do anything about it.

what?

#29 Posted by Sinfulplayerx (193 posts) - - Show Bio

Incoming....Indestructible Hulk..... read 'em and weep ~BUB

#30 Edited by The Lone Wanderer (1448 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001 said:

1. Hulk matches stress proportionately with atomic power which is why he can be hurt but not killed. Hulk's cell mass just increases at the same pace as any stress inflicted in order to keep him alive. The Hulk can taken to the edge of death and not be completely destroyed because he is simultaneously building himself back up even stronger. That's what he does and that's what makes him the incredible, indestructible Hulk. Hulk is always pushed to the edge but since he grows at the same pace of the stress he experiences, he will always endure every kind of hurt but the end result is never his death.

2. Atoms are the fabric of reality. And yes, the universe does have endless atoms, therefore, limitless atomic energy, which is where Hulk draws his power from. Any interaction that causes Hulk stress such as molecular breakdown and reconstruction will only serve escalate his cellular mass/physical strength. Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk since Hulk manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible.

3. Attacking the Hulk anywhere, in any bodily systems and vital functions is useless because the final result is not a dead Hulk, just a stronger one.

Hulk can be messed with but he can't be stopped cold. Neither Sentry, Scarlet Witch, or Franklin Richards can do anything about it.

You mean the kid who is so powerful that he could literally wipe a galaxy buster like Odin from existence with a mean thought? Last time I checked, Odin tried to take on some celestials with pretty much every bit of fancy gear he had including the Odinsword and the Destroyer armour and every other asgardian boosting him, and he didn't even annoy them. Even Kid Franklin is equal to one of the Celestials that stomped on Odin like an ant.

Plus, one defining feature of most Hulks is that they would never hurt a kid consciously. If Franklin stood in his way and told him to go away, pretty much every bit of interaction between Hulk and a child points to Hulk backing away if there was no way to get around Franklin. He's noble like that. That and most of the smarter versions of Hulk would know better than to try and mess with someone who could take on and defeat all the pantheons of the Earth at once, given that he probably remembers the beating Zeus gave him and how thoroughly Dormammu humiliated Gravage hulk.

#31 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@The Lone Wanderer said:

@dum529001 said:

1. Hulk matches stress proportionately with atomic power which is why he can be hurt but not killed. Hulk's cell mass just increases at the same pace as any stress inflicted in order to keep him alive. The Hulk can taken to the edge of death and not be completely destroyed because he is simultaneously building himself back up even stronger. That's what he does and that's what makes him the incredible, indestructible Hulk. Hulk is always pushed to the edge but since he grows at the same pace of the stress he experiences, he will always endure every kind of hurt but the end result is never his death.

2. Atoms are the fabric of reality. And yes, the universe does have endless atoms, therefore, limitless atomic energy, which is where Hulk draws his power from. Any interaction that causes Hulk stress such as molecular breakdown and reconstruction will only serve escalate his cellular mass/physical strength. Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk since Hulk manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible.

3. Attacking the Hulk anywhere, in any bodily systems and vital functions is useless because the final result is not a dead Hulk, just a stronger one.

Hulk can be messed with but he can't be stopped cold. Neither Sentry, Scarlet Witch, or Franklin Richards can do anything about it.

You mean the kid who is so powerful that he could literally wipe a galaxy buster like Odin from existence with a mean thought? Last time I checked, Odin tried to take on some celestials with pretty much every bit of fancy gear he had including the Odinsword and the Destroyer armour and every other asgardian boosting him, and he didn't even annoy them. Even Kid Franklin is equal to one of the Celestials that stomped on Odin like an ant.

Plus, one defining feature of most Hulks is that they would never hurt a kid consciously. If Franklin stood in his way and told him to go away, pretty much every bit of interaction between Hulk and a child points to Hulk backing away if there was no way to get around Franklin. He's noble like that. That and most of the smarter versions of Hulk would know better than to try and mess with someone who could take on and defeat all the pantheons of the Earth at once, given that he probably remembers the beating Zeus gave him and how thoroughly Dormammu humiliated Gravage hulk.

As I said in my last post, Hulk is Matter Manipulator/Reality Warper as well. Hulk has the power of the Celestials. Celestials, as comic fans know, can't die. Even a Celestial can't kill another Celestial.

#32 Posted by Russel70 (58 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Are you brain damaged?

#33 Posted by Lord_Johnathan (3216 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001 said:

@The Lone Wanderer said:

@dum529001 said:

1. Hulk matches stress proportionately with atomic power which is why he can be hurt but not killed. Hulk's cell mass just increases at the same pace as any stress inflicted in order to keep him alive. The Hulk can taken to the edge of death and not be completely destroyed because he is simultaneously building himself back up even stronger. That's what he does and that's what makes him the incredible, indestructible Hulk. Hulk is always pushed to the edge but since he grows at the same pace of the stress he experiences, he will always endure every kind of hurt but the end result is never his death.

2. Atoms are the fabric of reality. And yes, the universe does have endless atoms, therefore, limitless atomic energy, which is where Hulk draws his power from. Any interaction that causes Hulk stress such as molecular breakdown and reconstruction will only serve escalate his cellular mass/physical strength. Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk since Hulk manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible.

3. Attacking the Hulk anywhere, in any bodily systems and vital functions is useless because the final result is not a dead Hulk, just a stronger one.

Hulk can be messed with but he can't be stopped cold. Neither Sentry, Scarlet Witch, or Franklin Richards can do anything about it.

You mean the kid who is so powerful that he could literally wipe a galaxy buster like Odin from existence with a mean thought? Last time I checked, Odin tried to take on some celestials with pretty much every bit of fancy gear he had including the Odinsword and the Destroyer armour and every other asgardian boosting him, and he didn't even annoy them. Even Kid Franklin is equal to one of the Celestials that stomped on Odin like an ant.

Plus, one defining feature of most Hulks is that they would never hurt a kid consciously. If Franklin stood in his way and told him to go away, pretty much every bit of interaction between Hulk and a child points to Hulk backing away if there was no way to get around Franklin. He's noble like that. That and most of the smarter versions of Hulk would know better than to try and mess with someone who could take on and defeat all the pantheons of the Earth at once, given that he probably remembers the beating Zeus gave him and how thoroughly Dormammu humiliated Gravage hulk.

As I said in my last post, Hulk is Matter Manipulator/Reality Warper as well. Hulk has the power of the Celestials. Celestials, as comic fans know, can't die. Even a Celestial can't kill another Celestial.

Even if Hulk were immune to reality warping, nothing's stopping the universe's most powerful ten year old from forming a black hole out of the air in Hulk's gut.

But again, in character Franklin wouldn't do that because he's a good hearted ten year old and Hulk would never hurt a child. Kids being off limits for smashing is one of hulk's defining traits.

#34 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk's power is liimitless. Its akin to the Beyonder who is a living cosmic cube possessing limiless power, and the Celestials as well.

#35 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Will you stop spamming my blog with false info and ridiculous statements please?

Moderator
#36 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn said:

@dum529001: Will you stop spamming my blog with false info and ridiculous statements please?

sorry about that. I was posting from a i-pad. I'll give you a cleaned up version.

#37 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Look closely. My first point supports my second point and my second point supports my third and fourth point.

A Basic Rundown of Hulk's Superhuman Abilities

1. The Source of Hulk's Power:

Atoms are the fabric of reality. The universe has endless atoms/mass, therefore, it also has limitless atomic energy(the motion of atoms/mass), which is where the Hulk draws his power from. Hulk converts the endless nuclear power of the universe into super-strong biomass, granting him virtually limitless superhuman strength. Hulk is powered by the most power energy form: Gamma rays. Gamma ray explosions are so powerful that they can generate as much power a sun (a trillion megaton-nuclear bombs exploding every second) produces in it's entire billion year life span with milliseconds to hundreds of seconds.

2. Hulk's proportionate growth as it applies to strength, stamina, adaptation and regeneration:

Fueled by limitless nuclear power, gamma rays, the Hulk geometrically grows the atomic-molecular structure of his bio-mass in proportion to stress(effective working force) allowing for survival by making what would be lethal damage into marginally superficial damage. For this reason Hulk's body is self-sustaining, being able to adapt for survival in hostile environments, has limitless stamina, and is very fast in regenerating to full recovery.

3. Hulk's own transmutation(the change of matter) and resistance to outside transmutation:

Hulk is also immune to Transmutation/Matter manipulation because he fights against it with the atomic -molecular mass growth of his cell structure in proportion to stress. It can be said Transmutation/Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk because he manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible. the Hulk himself is living transmutation, an unstoppable juggernaut of transmutation. Hulk can not suffer permanent destruction, let alone should destruction followed by reconstruction. Hulk's own transmutation prevents him from being completely overtaken by outside transmutation. Atom by atom, molecule by molecule, Hulk can be taken to the edge and not be obliterated because he simultaneously builds himself back up stronger.

4. The body's own expenditure of energy & mass is induces stress, because the body puts pressure on itself to continually produce and sustain itself.

As you know the more the Hulk strains his body/the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets. We also know that Hulk's cellular strength increases can come from the stress he makes on his own as well as from any other outside forces.

What makes Hulk so incredible is that he is an indestructible human juggernaut of limitless nuclear power!!

#38 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Hulk's own transmutation(the change of matter) and resistance to outside transmutation:

No matter how strong he gets he'll always be able to get hurt(by a powerful enough force) but he won't ever die from it.

Hulk is also immune to Transmutation/Matter manipulation because he fights against it with cellular mass growth in proportion to stress. It can be said Transmutaion/Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk because he manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible. Hulk can not suffer permanent destruction, let alone should destruction followed by reconstruction.

So Hulk is able to regenerate on an (sub)atomic scale? What about transmutation without destruction?

#39 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2 said:

@dum529001: Hulk's own transmutation(the change of matter) and resistance to outside transmutation:

No matter how strong he gets he'll always be able to get hurt(by a powerful enough force) but he won't ever die from it.

Hulk is also immune to Transmutation/Matter manipulation because he fights against it with cellular mass growth in proportion to stress. It can be said Transmutaion/Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk because he manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible. Hulk can not suffer permanent destruction, let alone should destruction followed by reconstruction.

So Hulk is able to regenerate on an (sub)atomic scale? What about transmutation without destruction?

Hulk's transmutation is linked to stress. Whether someone goes as far as to try and completely break him down at the atomic/cellular level or simply starts pushing at the limits of his body's strength or hurts him, Hulk can recover. No kind of wear and tear or lethal injury can keep the Hulk down.

#40 Posted by soduh2 (865 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001 said:

@soduh2 said:

@dum529001: Hulk's own transmutation(the change of matter) and resistance to outside transmutation:

No matter how strong he gets he'll always be able to get hurt(by a powerful enough force) but he won't ever die from it.

Hulk is also immune to Transmutation/Matter manipulation because he fights against it with cellular mass growth in proportion to stress. It can be said Transmutaion/Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk because he manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible. Hulk can not suffer permanent destruction, let alone should destruction followed by reconstruction.

So Hulk is able to regenerate on an (sub)atomic scale? What about transmutation without destruction?

Hulk's transmutation is linked to stress. Whether someone goes as far as to try and completely break him down at the atomic/cellular level or simply starts pushing at the limits of his body's strength or hurts him, Hulk can recover. No kind of wear and tear or lethal injury can keep the Hulk down.

Doesn't he need the organelles within his cells to be functional in order to metabolize/absorb the gamma radiation? So by that virtue if the transmutation occurs at a rate faster than he can regenerate rearranging the very particles which he is composed of, he will be transformed.

#41 Posted by PowerHerc (81637 posts) - - Show Bio

Objectivity & Accuracy.

Good job.

#42 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@soduh2 said:

@dum529001 said:

@soduh2 said:

@dum529001: Hulk's own transmutation(the change of matter) and resistance to outside transmutation:

No matter how strong he gets he'll always be able to get hurt(by a powerful enough force) but he won't ever die from it.

Hulk is also immune to Transmutation/Matter manipulation because he fights against it with cellular mass growth in proportion to stress. It can be said Transmutaion/Matter manipulation does not work on Hulk because he manipulates matter as well, in the best way possible. Hulk can not suffer permanent destruction, let alone should destruction followed by reconstruction.

So Hulk is able to regenerate on an (sub)atomic scale? What about transmutation without destruction?

Hulk's transmutation is linked to stress. Whether someone goes as far as to try and completely break him down at the atomic/cellular level or simply starts pushing at the limits of his body's strength or hurts him, Hulk can recover. No kind of wear and tear or lethal injury can keep the Hulk down.

Doesn't he need the organelles within his cells to be functional in order to metabolize/absorb the gamma radiation? So by that virtue if the transmutation occurs at a rate faster than he can regenerate rearranging the very particles which he is composed of, he will be transformed.

That's true but as I mentioned, Hulk's regeneration is as incredible as his strength. In proportion to stress his inhuman genes convert the power of gamma rays for the necessary growth of new and stronger cellular/molecular mass, making him an indestructible human juggernaut of nuclear power!

#43 Edited by Sinfulplayerx (193 posts) - - Show Bio

@RedheadedAtrocitus said:

@cattlebattle: I think what he was trying to get at in this blog is detailing the nature of WWH's many seemingly one sided victories during the whole of this plot-device driven event. I think we are far too apt to say WWH/WBH was Banner's strongest incarnation of the Hulk due to all the victories he had and wanted to kind of debunk the idea that he universally kicked the whole of the MU's @$$ during this crossover through sheer strength alone and will, when its obvious in battles such as against 'Naut, Zom, and Sentry that he was having trouble. The victories he did have were either to exemplify adversaries that would have lost to him anyway due to whatever reason or due to stupid flaws and/or flukes, like Reed Richards getting turned into Laffy Taffy due to his inability to come out with a proper scientific device to fight WWH. Its not so much to belittle the victories as to really break down the events regarding WWH's kick@$$ery during the whole of the story. My favorite 'what if' regarding the event myself is what if Zarathos thought twice about taking off on his motorcycle and actually did fight WWH. Intriguing no?

Think about it. If the Infinity Gems had a real equal for each of the parts and the Hulk was 1/6 of the infinity gems.....the Ghost Rider would be another 1/6.

#44 Posted by Hyperlight (5493 posts) - - Show Bio

i agree with everything you said. didnt know rockslide was that strong though.

to be honest.. using Zom was overkill. Strange should even need to invoke a hell lord to fight hulk

#45 Posted by seekquaze (607 posts) - - Show Bio

@GLExpert said:

@god_spawn: I read the story where Sentry fought Hulk. What do you mean Sentry wasn't fully stable?

Sentry stood in his house for two days before finally deciding to go fight WWH.

That for starters indicates Sentry is not working at full capacity. It took him two days to get over his problems to fight the Hulk. Then you have him begging the Hulk to hit him. Given how strong the Hulk is that is not something a mentally sound person would do given everything at stake. The Sentry through his energy around with little thought to where it was going wasting a lot of it. Again, not something a mentally sound person would do given everything at stake. In the minis, the Sentry has speed feats that should put him beyond the Hulk's ability to touch. The Sentry supposedly has defeated Galactus, but here barely stalemated the Hulk. Throughout his story, the Sentry has always been highly unstable even in the best of times. It is the Void that is generally the collected one who can use his powers to the full extent.

#46 Posted by RealityWarper (74 posts) - - Show Bio

According to Amadeus Cho Hulk don't hurt people so bad, even heroes.

He wants revenge, not to kill his old friends.

Thinking that he is fighting seriously too is a misconception.

#47 Posted by CharlesMartel (114 posts) - - Show Bio

Nice clear up. I always knew there was something IFFY about that World War Hulk nonsense

#48 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

What I don't get is how so many of the X-men couldn't recover quickly enough. I'll use Cyclops as an example since I'm a fanboy. Hulk grabs him and throws him, I believe Kitty saved him? Then next time you see him in the Jet injured with all the other X-Men. Is this PIS or maybe I'm not taking the Hulk's strength into enough account...I just don't see how everyone got whooped so quick. I understand Wolverine and like Colossus no doubt! But wtf I'm curious as to someones thought.

Another thing I want to add is when the X-Vets showed up, they kinda just attacked one at a time, no plan. Surely the team would of formed a plan...you would think Xavier would let them know the Hulk is at the mansion. Instead they just get there and...crush.

#49 Posted by God_Spawn (37346 posts) - - Show Bio

@xmentas: Because Hulk is vastly stronger than almost everyone on every team that showed. He is also vastly more durable, was extremely pissed so he was immune to the telepathy and hypnosis and not every single mutant was present at the time. The only one Hulk could not beat was the Juggernaut except for letting him run away and due to Charles telling Cain to stop.

And Xavier wasn't let out onto the field and the Stepford Cuckoos blocked his telepathy and you're questioning why Cyclops didn't come back? I think you are indeed underestimating Hulk squeezing a normal man's skull, not to mention pushing himself that hard probably didn't help much for stamina either.

Moderator
#50 Posted by xmentas (175 posts) - - Show Bio

@god_spawn: I was saying it looked like he just threw him, not crushed his skull. And why wasn't there a plan? Did they really think they could stop the hulk by going against him one at a time? I can see why the hulk can beat most of them in one shot now, but it was very poor planning for the team imo.

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