@Enosisik as far as I know, it has never been stated that Hulk cannot do it. His strength is infinite but Mjolnir has been described as impossible to pick up by someone not worthy, they are conflicting statements. I am speculating that it is plausible for Hulk to pick it up using the facts provided in Marvel canon. Feel free to do your own blog that brings together the facts and argues why Mjolnir cannot be lifted but this is my opinion. It won't be changed until Hulk is angry enough destroy the entire multiverse and still cannot pick it up.

Side note: I thought it was funny when Thor put his hammer on Loki's chest and Loki couldn't get up. That was funny.

Yeah that's fine... You clearly do not understand the whole it can not be lifted unless worthy thing. 'it can not' as in infinite and final. Hulk will never reach infinite strength because in order for that to happen he would need to be infinitly angry for an infinite amount of time and it just wouldnt make sense on an infinite level. Anyway, it's ok I understand your view regardless whether it works or not.

@venomoushatred1001@MasterofChaos Here it is. Thanks to TheMastermind's Comicvine Hulk vs Real Hulk thread

Well then it looks like we're at a mate, then. Stale or check, I don't know. Or at least winding down.

CitizenBane is the man. He did a blog a while back about Hulk vs Thor, very well-written and well analyzed. In it, he posted these pictures.

@Enosisik that is in no way a valid argument. I could flip it round and say that you clearly don't understand what it means to have infinite strength. Regardless, thank you for accepting that I can have my opinion, many people on the internet would denounce even that

even the movie stayed more true to the comics than loeb and he is in the freaking bussiness of comics!!

@MasterofChaos Hulk cannot lift it at that level of anger. Unfortunately, it is impossible for your side of the argument to prove it and impossible for mine to prove unless it actually happens

Infinite strength is impossible, as I explained. Not a valid statement ? As if any of your so called argument is lol.

You need to be pure-hearted and have a warriors soul. just kidding I'm just making stuff up, OR AM I?

I like to think it's a combination stregth and virtue and a few other things that make someone worthy. Beta Ray Bill is my favorite person who isn't Thor who's wielded the Mjolnir. He would've deserved it. The guy's got heart. But I don't know what makes someone worthy.

@guttridgeb: I find it hard to comprehend the anger level theory of the Hulk. For instance, there's the school of thought that Hulk gets angrier as he gets more interaction and stimuli for his anger and gets stronger. There's also he gets stronger as time goes on, because he always gets angry as time goes on. And there's also the varying degrees of speed, some saying it goes up exponentially, others seeming to believe it takes a while.

@Enosisik I'm intrigued, why are my arguments so invalid? Also, your explanation for why infinite strength is impossible makes little sense, the amount of time he spends angry means nothing, its only his infinite anger that makes his strength infinite.

Omg dude really? Hulk's source of strength comes from his anger, correct? Infinite= Always= needs no source because it always is and has been= no beginning,no end, no limitation___ a source = a beginning and a limitation_ thus for Hulk to be infinitly strong he would need to have been infinitely angry for an infinite amount of tine__ which means even if we erase the need for him to have existed and angry before time and space itself and give him a starting point of today he would still need to be angry for an infinite amount of time. In order to reach infinte speed 'scientist say just light speed' you need an infinite power source of energy which would = infinite mass.

I don't buy the angle of Hulk not being 'worthy.' Let's face it, Thor is a bit of an emo, and a whiny crybaby at times, as well as a bit of an arrogant prick. Hulk usually shows better character and courage than most of the Marvel superheroes.

@Enosisik that's only one argument for which I chose the wrong word (provided your information is correct). Would you prefer it if I used the word limitless or endless? Besides, when the most powerful being in the Marvel universe states that Hulk is infinitely strong I take his word for it.

@MasterofChaos I agree on the speed side of things, it says on the wiki that his speed increases with anger but with all that mass? I try not to think about it to much or my head hurts ;)

Endless and limitless= infinite... So um no. Beyonder said that and he was never the most powerful in the universe , and half of what he did and said was retconed anyway.

No such thing as limitless anger.
BB

@Enosisik he had control over everything in the multiverse, if that doesn't make him the most powerful he's close enough. That statement was included by the writer because it was true, they weren't planning the retcon at the time.

They never 'plan' to retcon at the time. A retcon is when the next writer comes along or the editor or the company as whole say 'well that didn't make sense' and erase it from history. It really doesn't make any difference. For Hulk to be infinitely strong he'd have to be stronger than 'the one above all' and that's not happening other than maybe a 'What If' book.

@Enosisik which is exactly my point, the Beyonder meant the statement so he must be. In regards to the One Above All (who I forgot about earlier, sorry about that) he is an infinite power so he wouldn't necessarily be stronger than him

The Beyonder was retconned so it wasn't .... The Beyonder wasn't even 2nd most powerful so you're proving my point over and over that you don't even know much about this topic. Well if something was stronger or even as strong as the Hulk then he wouldn't be infinitely strong because he could never be stronger than that other infinite part.

@Enosisik regardless of whether I stated the Beyonder to be more powerful than he is ranking-wise, he was powerful enough to control everything (or almost everything) in the multiverse. By saying that the retcon wasn't planned I mean that was the accepted power level of Hulk by the writers. Besides, we're arguing semantics now so either carry this argument on in a private message or stop cluttering the comments section with a pointless argument that neither of us shall win

"Writers " it was one 'writer' whom everyone apparently disagreed with .. Hence why it was retconned. Actually the editor at the time forced it to be retconned. Editor > writer. And anyway I explained via science and continuity why it is impossible. You still ignore the fact that a God's magic spell says it can't be lifted. Why can't Odin's spell be infinite? Because you want to ignore it , even though a magic spell having infinite power makes a whole lot more sense than infinite anger or strength. Even your original post about the hammer sitting on tables was proven wrong by half if the people who answered and explained that the hammer is not being forced down it just can Not be lifted from where it sits. You've ignored the fact that Stan Lee himself said No ONE can lift it no matter how strong. Then you bring up the writer of the Beyonder 'that one line little retconned line about Hulks power.... Maybe you didn't read the books because The Beyonder spent the entire series lying to people as part of his game. Which is the cause for much of the confusion with the cheracters and the reason he needed to be retconned. Really doesn't matter magic spell with the power of infinity is equal infinite strength , so he's still not lifting it. So everything you said was invalid. I win/ thread.

@Enosisik your a real c*** aren't you? All this time I've been trying to keep a patient attitude and your just being a twat. I cannot respond to every comment because I'm one guy and there are a lot of comments to get through, the only reason I've been responding to your's are because your being such a dick. If you want to keep arguing I shall try and get through each point in a PM, if you choose to carry on in this thread I shall ignore you

Aww harsh words :( . Come on now , I didn't even reply to the topic until a page or two ago. The things I pointed out were on the first two pages ;) Btw carful with the temper.. We don't want you to reach infinite anger :)

Sorry, I did get a bit carried away there, its been a tough few days

It's no problem. This did get a little more heated than it needs to be. My fault as well. The only true and undebatable answer we can all agree on is that they are just going to write whatever they want regardless if it makes sense to us or not. Lol ... Being that I've always been a big Hulk fan I'm actually on your side as far as wanting Hulk to Finaly just lift the thing lol.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4_TJpv8IpI The only time they have made him lift Mjolnir.

I am a big Hulk fan. But like everyone knows, magic and such, can be used against him, and he can be controlled with magic up to a certain point. Think the current movie made it wright, the ground beneath the Hulk should crumble and the hammer doesn't move!

You may harvest limitless amount of strength from Hulk. (How is not the point) Or, Hulk possesses the ability to increase his strength endlessly. This wording fits what he does, and it's rightful to assume you can zone him in a speed up time zone to immediately gave him the valid, infinite strength in the equation.

That being said, I'm not listing a time machine or what not for him to abuse, in the circumstance. That would be spite to Mjolnir.

Hulk cannot lift Mjolnir.

Post by Deadite (62 posts) See mini bio Level 7 Follow Send a PM You may harvest limitless amount of strength from Hulk. (How is not the point) Or, Hulk possesses the ability to increase his strength endlessly. This wording fits what he does, and it's rightful to assume you can zone him in a speed up time zone to immediately gave him the valid, infinite strength in the equation. That being said, I'm not listing a time machine or what not for him to abuse, in the circumstance. That would be spite to Mjolnir. Edited 2 days, 6 hours ago_____\_\_ How is ThE POInt or else! It would be impossible to explain without using comicbook science or pure pis. If he never becomes that powerful then it is nothing more than Sentry 'having the power of a million exploding suns'. It's unproven and has more proof against it than it does for it. Understand; my key issue is the word 'limitless" or infinite".

I thought you had to be deemed "worthy" in order to lift Thor's hammer.

I thought you had to be deemed "worthy" in order to lift Thor's hammer.

@primepower53 lol, ur just trying to have a philosophical discussion while everyone else just wants a discussion based on hard facts/feats. Kinda depressing really, cause the former is FAR more interesting. Philosophy and opinion, while they have similarities, aren't quiet the same thing, and most of these guys don't seem to understand that. Philosophy is the study of opinions in as objective a way as possible, so really, ur being more objective than most people here, yet being accused of bringing too much opinion into the discussion...I just think that's funny.

@Enosisik Soooo, by ur logic Galactus couldn't lift Mjolnir? Not saying Hulk would ever get up to Galactus level in strength (although imho, he THEORETICALLY could), but what your saying is that even if someone is stronger than Odin himself, they could never lift Mjolnir, and that seems a bit ridiculous to me. It's not like Odin is part of the fabric of the Marvel Universe, and anything he says is law, he's just INCREDIBLY powerful. But there are certainly beings more powerful than him.

@guttridgeb Imo, it's not really all that plausible for Hulk to ever lift Mjolnir, because the anger/time it would take for Hulk to get that angry would just be too much for any writer to make happen and sound truly believable. The reason people say anger is limitless is because people think of imagination as limitless, and if that's the case, you can always think of something to get more angry about [the logic behind this however, is debatable on it's own, unless you consider the possibility that Hulks level of strength isn't equivalent to his level of anger, but instead just becomes stronger with every time he gets angry (not "angrier" just angry)] Either way, you should keep in mind that Hulk's strength isn't actually limitless, it's POTENTIALLY limitless. Over all, while I wouldn't say it's "plausible" for Hulk to get that strong, I would say it IS possible.

No Galactus couldn't lift it! Thor can't lift it if he's not worthy! It has NOTHING at all to do with strength..

Any being that can overcome Odin's power should be able to manipulate the hammer, such as Galactus, Eternity...a Celestial could probably use it like a keychain...but while the Hulk may very well be physically STRONGER than all of them combined, there is no way he is more powerful. It is not plausible at all for a being whose power is based solely on the efficiency of his physical abilities to overcome an obstacle that relies on none of those abilities.

Even if they are 'more powerful' that has NOThing to do with the spell. The only way someone would lift it is they had stronger magic and could remove the spell. Dr.Strange maybe, Dr.Doom maybe... Galactus ect maybe via pure powers but that has nothing to do with physical strength. Half of marvel is stronger than Odin ffs

@Enosisik Actually, what I meant was could Galactus lift it with just brute strength. By what you're saying I would guess your answer to be no. (and yes, Galactus is physically stronger than Hulk, he just chooses not to use said strength because it's not the most efficient way to use his power. Hulk has the potential to become stronger than Galactus, but normally, I'd say Galactus is far superior to Hulk and just about everyone else in strength, as well as every other ability you can think of.) Anyway, I think I was misinterpreting what you were saying a bit, and more importantly, misinterpreting the way magic works. I was thinking of Odin's magic as APPLYING a law of physics to an object to keep it in place, when really, it would be NEUTRALIZING a law of physics to keep it in place. If this is the case, than it makes a lot more sense for any amount strength to become irrelevant. I was also equating strength to power, which is a groundless assumption. Because of that, I figured if no amount of strength would make a difference, no amount of power would make a difference, another groundless assumption. And if no amount of power makes a difference, than Odin is one of, if not the most powerful being in existence, which we all know to be untrue. In other words, I wasn't able to see all the factors, so I came to the wrong conclusion. If someone like Doctor Strange can lift the hammer, I'm content with magic having the ability to neutralize strength as a power source, and therefore change my vote to: No, the Hulk can NOT lift Mjolnir...although, it'd be cool if he did.

On that note, since it's supposedly based off of virtue alone, I'd say the best incarnation of Hulk for the job of lifting the hammer would be classic Savage Hulk, because while Grey Hulk, Professor Hulk, WWH, and more recently Banner know what they're doing could hurt people, I don't think Savage Hulk fully grasps that. He's got the mind of a child, and the only reason he ever tries to hurt people is in self defense...usually after getting shot at countless times, and running/jumping for ridiculously long distances before finally giving up and realizing there's no choice but to confront his attackers. The other reason is usually because he's trying to protect someone, Betty for instance. So I'd say, under the right circumstances, Hulk should be able to lift the hammer, not because of brute strength, but noble intentions. But that's just my opinion, and as primpower53 was trying to say: the question of who's "worthy" is a very subjective one.

I agree. He's not much different than Thor in a lot of things.

@Miggy4 but if it was neutralizing the laws of physics it would stay fixed in the place that Thor stopped holding it, it wouldn't fall when dropped because gravity is neutralized and as the earth moved round the sun it would leave Mjolnir behind

Wonder Woman lifted it back in the Marvel vs. DC comics, but idk about Hulk doing it.

@guttridgeb not "the laws" of physics "a law" of physics. And only in a specific situation. Since it's magic we're talking about here, it can be in as specific a situation as it wants. I would think it to be something along the lines of neutralizing PSIs of force applied to lift after the hammer is dropped, and replacing the force that allows it to be lifted from PSIs to the amount of nobility in the lifter's heart...or something cheesy like that. Idk though, I'm a self appointed philosophy, psychology, and writing analyst, not a physicist/wizard! El8 <-(nerd face)

Yeah so in non science mumbo jumbo it just means that the hammer's spell does nothing when sitting but once something tries to lift it the spell will give out an equal amount of force, just like opposite sides of magnets. Being that it is equal force and not more' the hammer will not just suddenly dig it's way into the ground if someone tries to lift it but rather stays nutural. Thor setting it on a table would be fine because it is just sitting, it's not being lifted so the table only is supporting the hammers weight.

@guttridgeb: if it amplifies the force put against it hulk would still never lift it on earth. infinite force vs infinite force is still equal

@karetaker but it wouldn't be infinite, if Rulk managed to use it when there was gravitational pull from both his and Thor's bodies that could have been amplified but he over-powered it.

@guttridgeb: the only reason it happened is because of pis.or because we dont understand how it workss and theres a crazy space rule

@ReVamp said:

@spiderbat87 said:

I dont understand why people think Thor is worthy but nobody else is, I mean it's not like he's perfect or anything

That's not really the question here. Are other people worthy? Yes. Can other people lift the hammer without being deemed worthy? No. The latter is what the OP is trying to argue for, and no, not happening.

Whosoever holds this hammer, if he be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor

That's the enchantment Odin placed on Mjolnir, I do agree that Hulk would have enough strength possibly in space to hold the hammer, but as he is deemed unworthy by the hammer then he would not possess the powers of Thor. So he can throw Mjolnir at Thor but not use any of Mjolnir's powers. Anyway can't Thor just control the hammer when it's been thrown at him like he does when he throws it?(in mid air)

@SupahForeigner said:

Anyway can't Thor just control the hammer when it's been thrown at him like he does when he throws it?(in mid air)

Techncially, yes. Thor has demonstrated enough times in the past (and in other media) that with enough focus he can control Mjolnir through thought. Of course, Thor seems to have lost his intelligence a few years ago so now he is often little more than a caveman swinging a big hammer.

@seekquaze said:

@SupahForeigner said:

Anyway can't Thor just control the hammer when it's been thrown at him like he does when he throws it?(in mid air)

Techncially, yes. Thor has demonstrated enough times in the past (and in other media) that with enough focus he can control Mjolnir through thought. Of course, Thor seems to have lost his intelligence a few years ago so now he is often little more than a caveman swinging a big hammer.

That's a good point, shame though.

Lifting Thor's hammer has nothing to do with strength:

End of story.