WHY HULK VS (FILL IN THE BLANK) THREADS MAKE NO SENSE

#1 Posted by Holipsism (5 posts) - - Show Bio

First and foremost, the Hulk is my favorite Marvel character. That being said, I hate it when threads pop up like Hulk vs Superman, who would win? Or Hulk Vs Thanos, who would win? The reason I hate these threads is because of course, in the comics and the way the writers have developed these characters, of course the Hulk can't beat either Superman or Thanos. Guess what? The Hulk also can't beat Mighty Mouse or Goku either. I despise these ridiculously amped up power level characters with a passion, which puts Superman #1 on my list because he is the granddaddy of ridiculously amped up characters. When a writer creates a character like this it is the the equivalent of setting your character in a video game to INVINCIBLE and walking through all the levels and stages until you win the game and then claiming yourself as a bad ass afterwards.

The reason why I love the Hulk as a character is the same reason why I love the Undertaker character as a wrestler or Godzilla as a monster. It is the same reason why all of those characters appeal to young children probably more than any other character; they are relentless and they will not quit until they beat you. The abomination was the first person to T.K.O. the Hulk. What happened in the rematch? The abomination got his ass kicked. What makes the Hulk so popular and what makes him resonate with his fans is not just him being the strongest there is (we all know there are other characters who have a base strength level higher than the Hulk). What makes the Hulk resonate with fans is they know the Hulk will always come back at you HARDER and STRONGER after you beat him. Hulk fans are not afraid of or ashamed to see the Hulk take a loss just as long as it fits the story and at the end the Hulk comes back and overcomes. In comparison to Superman, Thanos, Mighty Mouse and Goku fans who assign their characters "cosmic" and "eternal" or "omnipotent" powers and then claim them as bad asses when they just stomp through everything and everyone. Those characters are BORING and UNINTERESTING.

When you grow up you are dealing with all kinds of fear and insecurities. How can a character like the Hulk not appeal to kids like this? You knock him down but he always gets back up and when he does he comes back even stronger!

So, to all the Hulk fans, don't waste your time in these threads going back and forth with these dudes.

Let Mighty Mouse win.

#2 Posted by Immortal777 (7681 posts) - - Show Bio

What is your point supposed to be exactly? I cant seem to understand first you say Hulks your favorite then you turn around and say you don't like overpowered characters as if Hulk isn't in that category.

#3 Posted by Dark Cloud™ (2177 posts) - - Show Bio

Request that your post be moved to General Discussion or Off-Topic. It has no place in the Battles forum.

#4 Edited by i_like_swords (15861 posts) - - Show Bio

There's been an extremely large amount of JL vs Avengers type threads recently and in just about every one, someone points out the ridiculous speed feats of the JL. Because the JL has flown 28 times the speed of light, or something like that, in a straight line, that means that in every thread all the JL would have to do is fly in a straight line into everyone on the other team, and since they can't react, they die on impact. I agree with you when I don't find characters of that power level interesting in the slightest, and I can see you case for liking Hulk better. It just bugs me when people constantly pit the JL against characters I like when half of them know full well the JL wins via speed. It offers no actual debate. I think half the League fanboys see a few speed scans and as a result consider themselves experts on comic battles. It is so, so incredibly boring.

I vote, no more JL battle threads against teams/characters that aren't as fast as them, as they offer no real debate and frankly, ruin the battle forum for me.

Online
#5 Posted by tikhunt (676 posts) - - Show Bio

I'm confused about what the point of this thread is tbh.

#6 Posted by GodTriggerHulk (1998 posts) - - Show Bio

@holipsism: Don't let the negative nellies get to you. Hulk has battled caped folks with super-speed for years. Thor, Gladiator and Sentry come to mind. Not to mention that Worldbreaker Hulk can emit omnidirectional bursts of planet-busting energy, can't superspeed away from that I tell you what. If you're ever on the battle forum and someone is low balling The Hulk, hit up TheAcidSkull for some neat scans. Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

#7 Posted by SheenLantern (6806 posts) - - Show Bio

Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

Challenge a Viner threads' winnders are determined by who debated the best, not who's character would win, I think it's fairly obvious to all of us that Hulk would lose to Wonder Woman.

#8 Posted by Saren (25903 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk said:

Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

Challenge a Viner threads' winnders are determined by who debated the best, not who's character would win, I think it's fairly obvious to all of us that Hulk would lose to Wonder Woman.

But......the good fight.....

Moderator
#9 Posted by Vance Astro (91287 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern said:

@godtriggerhulk said:

Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

Challenge a Viner threads' winnders are determined by who debated the best, not who's character would win, I think it's fairly obvious to all of us that Hulk would lose to Wonder Woman.

Actually I don't think this is true. A character that is completely incapable of beating another won't win in Challenge a viner because of the skill of the debater. Some fights are hard to determine it's not like we know for a FACT the outcome of every fight in comics, that's the point of battle forums to share ideas and come up with a collective solution.

Moderator
#10 Posted by Vance Astro (91287 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk said:

@holipsism: Don't let the negative nellies get to you. Hulk has battled caped folks with super-speed for years. Thor, Gladiator and Sentry come to mind.

These 3 characters are all brawlers. If they used their speed effectively against Hulk he wouldn't even get a hit off. Writers have to make these character stand face to face with the Hulk because otherwise anyone with superhuman speed with enough physical power on them would annihilate the Hulk.

@godtriggerhulk said:

Thor, Gladiator and Sentry come to mind. Not to mention that Worldbreaker Hulk can emit omnidirectional bursts of planet-busting energy, can't superspeed away from that I tell you what.

Actually any one of them COULD "superspeed away from that". It's not instantaneous.

Moderator
#11 Edited by TDK_1997 (14988 posts) - - Show Bio

@godtriggerhulk said:

Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

Challenge a Viner threads' winnders are determined by who debated the best, not who's character would win, I think it's fairly obvious to all of us that Hulk would lose to Wonder Woman.

But for the debater to win the character still needs to have the feats to prove that he/she can win.

#12 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk IS strong, but, not THAT stro--

@godtriggerhulk said:

@holipsism: Don't let the negative nellies get to you. Hulk has battled caped folks with super-speed for years. Thor, Gladiator and Sentry come to mind. Not to mention that Worldbreaker Hulk can emit omnidirectional bursts of planet-busting energy, can't superspeed away from that I tell you what. If you're ever on the battle forum and someone is low balling The Hulk, hit up TheAcidSkull for some neat scans. Things are also slowly getting better, TheAcidSkull recently won a challenge a viner debating for The Hulk against pre-reboot Wonder Woman. Don't stop fighting the good fight!

Really?...

#13 Posted by SheenLantern (6806 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: Then what would be the point of the debaters? The character with the better feats would automatically win.

#14 Posted by TDK_1997 (14988 posts) - - Show Bio

@sheenlantern: The point is that the debate will be about if the users can find the appropriate feats of the characters with which they would win the debate and not use just lame logic or some other nonsense.If they don't know the character that well and they know about his best feats and how their character can counter the opponent then they would lose.So it is all about the skill and knowledge on the character.

#15 Posted by THEOCITYLEGEND (1237 posts) - - Show Bio

First and foremost, the Hulk is my favorite Marvel character. That being said, I hate it when threads pop up like Hulk vs Superman, who would win? Or Hulk Vs Thanos, who would win? The reason I hate these threads is because of course, in the comics and the way the writers have developed these characters, of course the Hulk can't beat either Superman or Thanos. Guess what? The Hulk also can't beat Mighty Mouse or Goku either. I despise these ridiculously amped up power level characters with a passion, which puts Superman #1 on my list because he is the granddaddy of ridiculously amped up characters. When a writer creates a character like this it is the the equivalent of setting your character in a video game to INVINCIBLE and walking through all the levels and stages until you win the game and then claiming yourself as a bad ass afterwards.

The reason why I love the Hulk as a character is the same reason why I love the Undertaker character as a wrestler or Godzilla as a monster. It is the same reason why all of those characters appeal to young children probably more than any other character; they are relentless and they will not quit until they beat you. The abomination was the first person to T.K.O. the Hulk. What happened in the rematch? The abomination got his ass kicked. What makes the Hulk so popular and what makes him resonate with his fans is not just him being the strongest there is (we all know there are other characters who have a base strength level higher than the Hulk). What makes the Hulk resonate with fans is they know the Hulk will always come back at you HARDER and STRONGER after you beat him. Hulk fans are not afraid of or ashamed to see the Hulk take a loss just as long as it fits the story and at the end the Hulk comes back and overcomes. In comparison to Superman, Thanos, Mighty Mouse and Goku fans who assign their characters "cosmic" and "eternal" or "omnipotent" powers and then claim them as bad asses when they just stomp through everything and everyone. Those characters are BORING and UNINTERESTING.

When you grow up you are dealing with all kinds of fear and insecurities. How can a character like the Hulk not appeal to kids like this? You knock him down but he always gets back up and when he does he comes back even stronger!

So, to all the Hulk fans, don't waste your time in these threads going back and forth with these dudes.

Let Mighty Mouse win.

I actually agree with this.

#16 Edited by Fifthchild (618 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk can beat Superman. And Hulk probably would beat Wonder Woman more often than not.

Theres basically 3 things going on here:

1 Comic Book Physics

2 Real World Physics

3 Comicvine Battleboard Physics

Number 3 is an attempt to understand comic book fights in the light of the real world and what people think would "actually happen". It probably doesnt correspond very well to real world physics however and is inevitably going to be an odd bastardisation of comic book physics and real world physics.

Characters with superspeed will always win in fights that take place under the assumptions of comicvine physics. Superman can "hit Hulk hundreds of times in a second" at full power in these scenarios. Thats what "should happen".

In the actual comics however superspeed appears to be nowhere near as advantageous a power. Under comicvine interpretations its usually assumed that this is because characters with superspeed literally "forget" they have that power and arent using it so that the fight can be more dramatic.

However in the very recent Orion Superman fight Superman unloaded with a prolonged blitz of superspeed punches to Orion's face to which Orion smiled in response. This wasnt because Orion was hundreds of times as strong/durable as Superman - when Superman unloaded on him normally he elicited reactions of shock and pain. It just seemed to be the case that a flurry of superfast punches dont equate to anything like the power of one all out punch.

Anwyay all that aside - in the actual comics Hulk is a super-heavyweight character who is about as powerful as its possible to get and a peer to someone like Superman/Hyperion/Silver Surfer/Thor/whoever. On comicvine.....not so much. So at the end of the day, if you do care about questions like this i guess you have to decide whats more important to you - what happens in the actual comics or the opinions of a bunch of guys on a forum like this?

#17 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also i won that debate ONLy because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

#18 Posted by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

Is wonder woman really that strong? lol geez, I honestly thought hulk would curbstomp her. She doesn't have the super speed advantage that supes has, or the strength to overpower the hulk. Why do some people think wonder woman wins easily? Surely i'm missing something. Or everything. lol

#19 Posted by Fifthchild (618 posts) - - Show Bio

Wonder Woman has genuine superspeed though its not highlighted/shown as often as it is with Superman, for whom its one of his iconic powers. Still, its shown enough that you cant really deny its part of her powerset. Iron Man even commented on it in JLA/Avengers. Shes strong also but not as strong as Superman. Probably about 80% as strong on average. When he gets serious with her, as he has a coupe of times, she gets manhandled. I might put her a little under Thor in raw strength.

Its not a curbstomp for Hulk by any means - she is also genuinely skilled - not to the crazy extent that streets like Batman are (where they are presented as fighting/defeating people many times stronger) but enough that its a pretty consistent part of her portrayal and matchups with other characters like Superman and in contrast to someone like Thor where people argue that he should be very skilled but in practice its rarely shown. She also has the lassoo and bracers.

Basically while Superman and Hulk are the uber strongmen of their respective universes and someone like Diana is not quite in the same class she has other advantages that make her pretty damn formidable. Still I would prob give Hulk 6/10 against her. Some incarnations may be hampered by the idea of fighting a "pretty woman" though which might give her a significant advantage.

Thats my take on it anyway. Doubtless if you went to the Battles forum you would get some wildly different ideas from many posters.

#20 Edited by dum529001 (1635 posts) - - Show Bio

You can't run and punch at the same time. You have to stop just long enough to punch. Having superhuman speed does not make you a living laser. You still have human anatomy and the physics of that.

Thrusting your arms fast? Easy.

Maintaining your striking at top speed, while using extremely high repititions per unit of time? Impossible. Why? Because striking at top speed consumes the majority of your energy, therefore, using high reps while doing so would be using energy that you don't have. If you use high reps, the power packed in every punch will not be your maximum. The sacrifice for using extremely high reps is your punching power.

it's quantity vs quality. Would you prefer a really high number of weaker punches per unit of time or fewer but faster/more powerful punches?

Thrusting your arms while and the rest of your body with your legs at the same time? That's impossible with human anatomy(or any kind of anatomy).

And trying to stop on a dime at top speed and then accelerate back to top speed instantly while changing direction? Also impossible.

#21 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also I won that debate ONLY because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

Well, you answered your own question...

#22 Posted by KnightRise (4785 posts) - - Show Bio

I wonder who's alt this?

#23 Posted by dum529001 (1635 posts) - - Show Bio

By the way, How is Hulk not overpowered? If you despise overpowered characters then the Hulk is included in that as well.

And lifting the weight of earth is neat and all, but the force to destroy a planet is definitely more impressive.

I don't think lifting the weight of earth is too much for a character. In fact, its the least that's expected of a top tier powerhouse character.

#24 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also I won that debate ONLY because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

Well, you answered your own question...

challenge a viner is about the skills of a debater and by that time, which was when i first joined, i was a rookie, hulk would take wonder woman 6/10 times.

it's hardly a " I DON"T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE" Scenario. people overestimate wonder woman A LOT.

#25 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also I won that debate ONLY because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

Well, you answered your own question...

challenge a viner is about the skills of a debater and by that time, which was when i first joined, i was a rookie, hulk would take wonder woman 6/10 times.

it's hardly a " I DON"T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE" Scenario. people overestimate wonder woman A LOT.

Geez, calm down. It was just a joke for Odin's sake. -.-

Don't need to get mad about it.

#26 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also I won that debate ONLY because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

Well, you answered your own question...

challenge a viner is about the skills of a debater and by that time, which was when i first joined, i was a rookie, hulk would take wonder woman 6/10 times.

it's hardly a " I DON"T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE" Scenario. people overestimate wonder woman A LOT.

Geez, calm down. It was just a joke for Odin's sake. -.-

Don't need to get mad about it.

goddammit, i did it again. i wasn't mad, i'm just bad at writing what i think, i was juts trying to debate, sorry if i sounded angry. i do that a lot.

#27 Posted by The_Lunact_And_Manic (3286 posts) - - Show Bio

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic said:

@theacidskull said:

@the_lunact_and_manic: And why is it that you think wonder woman could beat the hulk? and also I won that debate ONLY because my vastly superior opponent wasn't trying hard, if he had, he would have won.

hulk can beat wonder woman.

Well, you answered your own question...

challenge a viner is about the skills of a debater and by that time, which was when i first joined, i was a rookie, hulk would take wonder woman 6/10 times.

it's hardly a " I DON"T WANT TO LIVE ON THIS PLANET ANYMORE" Scenario. people overestimate wonder woman A LOT.

Geez, calm down. It was just a joke for Odin's sake. -.-

Don't need to get mad about it.

goddammit, i did it again. i wasn't mad, i'm just bad at writing what i think, i was juts trying to debate, sorry if i sounded angry. i do that a lot.

Lol, no problem.

#28 Posted by Holipsism (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: It is all relative. We are talking about superheroes so "overpowered" has to be viewed within that context.

Sorry for the confusion but let me see if I can put it in a way that makes sense.

The Hulk can't sit at a Starbucks and have a cup of coffee. He would break the seat and crush the cup or mug on contact. Superman can lift planets but at the same time can shake someone's hand. The shit makes absolutely no sense. To be quite honest with you, Superman is so powerful that if you have someone punch him in the face and it affects him in any way whatsoever it is unrealistic based on his power set.

Like Stan Lee said, I tend to connect more with Marvel because at least there is a scientific bent and an explanation to a character's power set. Now, keep in mind, every writer doesn't do a character justice and takes liberties I don't agree with. I'm a hulk fan but the hulk should not be able to left Thor's hammer. By having the hulk lift Mjolnir you take a big giant crap on Thor and I don't appreciate that. Just like seeing the Red Hulk stop the Green Hulk right in the middle of a power up (a.k.a. The madder he gets the stronger). It makes no sense and I hate crap like that.

#29 Posted by Holipsism (5 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines: I agree. I never knew that Wonder Woman was even in the discussion when it came to raw power. I guess you learn something new everyday, huh? lol

#30 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

if some crazed fanboy doesn't come up and cry " HLK WINS BBECUS HE SRTRONGEST!" all is usually fine

#31 Posted by Verotikryptonite (319 posts) - - Show Bio

Is wonder woman really that strong? lol geez, I honestly thought hulk would curbstomp her. She doesn't have the super speed advantage that supes has, or the strength to overpower the hulk. Why do some people think wonder woman wins easily? Surely i'm missing something. Or everything. lol

Hulk picks his teeth with her tiara, then picks Rick Jones for drinks in his newly acquired invisible jet.

#32 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

Is wonder woman really that strong? lol geez, I honestly thought hulk would curbstomp her. She doesn't have the super speed advantage that supes has, or the strength to overpower the hulk. Why do some people think wonder woman wins easily? Surely i'm missing something. Or everything. lol

Not in a curbstomp, but hulk would win.

#33 Edited by novi_homines (1338 posts) - - Show Bio

@novi_homines said:

Is wonder woman really that strong? lol geez, I honestly thought hulk would curbstomp her. She doesn't have the super speed advantage that supes has, or the strength to overpower the hulk. Why do some people think wonder woman wins easily? Surely i'm missing something. Or everything. lol

Hulk picks his teeth with her tiara, then picks Rick Jones for drinks in his newly acquired invisible jet.

hulk has a newly acquired invisible jet?

#34 Posted by GhostRavage (9196 posts) - - Show Bio

@immortal777: It is all relative. We are talking about superheroes so "overpowered" has to be viewed within that context.

Sorry for the confusion but let me see if I can put it in a way that makes sense.

The Hulk can't sit at a Starbucks and have a cup of coffee. He would break the seat and crush the cup or mug on contact. Superman can lift planets but at the same time can shake someone's hand. The shit makes absolutely no sense. To be quite honest with you, Superman is so powerful that if you have someone punch him in the face and it affects him in any way whatsoever it is unrealistic based on his power set.

Like Stan Lee said, I tend to connect more with Marvel because at least there is a scientific bent and an explanation to a character's power set. Now, keep in mind, every writer doesn't do a character justice and takes liberties I don't agree with. I'm a hulk fan but the hulk should not be able to left Thor's hammer. By having the hulk lift Mjolnir you take a big giant crap on Thor and I don't appreciate that. Just like seeing the Red Hulk stop the Green Hulk right in the middle of a power up (a.k.a. The madder he gets the stronger). It makes no sense and I hate crap like that.

Mjolnir isn't that heavy, the thing is some characters defy its magic. No one can lift that hammer if he's not worthy. Also, you can lift the hammer if you are touching Thor in any way. Red Hulk did it because he was in contact with Thor and Hulk did it because he's worthy. He is pure of heart as Thor.

#35 Posted by CoolCat33 (51 posts) - - Show Bio

Every one give Hulk the shaft on Comicvine. The fact of the Matter is if you punched someone faster than the speed of light that would emit so much gamma radiation that Hulk could annihilate who ever he was fighting. Superman, Wonder Woman, etc. would have gotten curbstomped by Onslaught or Silver Surfer but Hulk always manages at least a decent fight. What I ask to all the Hulk haters is what could any of them do to Hulk that would hurt him. Hulk has a healing factor that's insane (Maybe even too great).

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