Raped without the Sex

#1 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Is it just me or was the Hulk raped? I mean granted, him and Thundra didn't have sex but she still took his DNA and had Lyra. So would this be considered rape?

#2 Posted by Green Skin (2932 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

No. Sex is a pretty important aspect of rape. You can get someones DNA all sorts of non sexual ways.

#3 Posted by thatlad (579 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I dunno I'd be pretty damned pissed if I got sperm-jacked!!!

#4 Posted by Emperor Gonzo Noir (19681 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

No

#5 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Green Skin:
But the point is she took his DNA to make a child.

#6 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@davidkenneth said:

"So would this be considered rape?"

Not by any legal standard.

Many jurisdictions don't even have a "rape" statute per se, instead characterizing it as "sexual assault" in order to get away from pedantic debates about sufficient penetration or the spouse v. non-spouse distinction. Nonetheless, even the liberalized definition requires some form of sexual touching conduct to qualify as rape or sexual assault. No one defines the culturing of DNA, even against one's will, as rape (which, again, by the old definition requires penetration and by the liberal one requires erogenous touching).

There could be a privacy violation and a civil suit but not on a property basis (see Moore v. Regents).

If you want to talk about moral condemnation or metaphorical "rape", you might get some traction but even there it's pretty ridiculous given the connotation and context of rape compared to something comparably clinical.

#7 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline:
Wow, what are you? A lawyer, no seriously are you a lawyer or was that only wikipedia?

#8 Posted by mavfan626 (3980 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

lol no it's not rape.

#9 Posted by Larkin1388 (1760 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

you could say she genetically raped him

#10 Posted by Kal'smahboi (2770 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Rape is all about taking control. This would probably be called theft before it was called rape.

#11 Posted by King Saturn (211069 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

say what

#12 Posted by Video_Martian (5631 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@thatlad said:

" I dunno I'd be pretty damned pissed if I got sperm-jacked!!! "

#13 Posted by CATMANEXE (17045 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

no. not according to the laws in Thundra's timeline anyways.

he was attacked once by two guys in a shower once as Banner.
i can't tell you much more than that as i just disregarded that silliness.

#14 Posted by Hazlenaut (1679 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

It is considered theft and malpractice. If the DNA was use for something it is considered vandalism .

#15 Posted by Eternal Chaos (22990 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@King Saturn: You're still here? Wow.

#16 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Hazlenaut said:

" It is considered theft and malpractice. "

Theft only in some jurisdictions. Legislatures have been reticent to call genetic material, body parts, and the like "property" for a series of traditional fears such as stalling medical research, legitimizing markets in organs, etc. More progressive jurisdictions may criminalize it and call it theft, but the underlying rational is nearly always privacy or consent (as opposed to property law).

#17 Posted by CATMANEXE (17045 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

I was being serious BTW, sorta. Men have no rights and are considered the enemies of the state in Thundra's
timeline. Thundra was acting under orders from her government directly during a time of war, and can't be held
responsible.

#18 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@CATMANEXE said:

" I was being serious BTW, sorta. Men have no rights and are considered the enemies of the state in Thundra's timeline. Thundra was acting under orders from her government directly during a time of war, and can't be held responsible. "

Yeah, but the victim's jurisdiction would matter in a sexual assault case. For example, if a US citizen was attacked abroad in a government sanctioned attack but by a government unrecognized by the US and both the victim and the perpetrator came back to the US... the US would exercise its jurisdiction over the perpetrator even if the perp was justified under their own government's law.

The tricky bit here would not so much be the location but the time issue, but there's literally a She-Hulk precedent on this which addresses the issue of time-travel causation crime... so, if it was a crime in Hulk's time/jurisdiction, they could hold Thundra accountable legally (in practice is another story).

#19 Edited by CATMANEXE (17045 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline:
I don't think they would risk that either way.
that could open up war with Thundra's timeline.
also it's highly likely that the reputable Jen Walters will represent her friend Thundra
in the case, and she hasn't lost a case in years (nor other universes).
lastly, it has come to light that Banner has not been paying child support, while
he has been recorded claiming Lyra as his daughter. So I'm afraid its a little more complex
than all of that. To the best of my understanding this was resolved already internally, and both
the Banner and Hulk personalities claim that they we're okay with this.

really though, while what you put forth is very well versed (no sarcasm here, i am complimenting you),
you must know that this issue would actually fall under the jurisdiction of inter-dimensional law and
and have to be moved to a higher office, specifically the one ruled over by the Living Tribunal.

#20 Posted by LightBright (4297 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Every time I see this thread I start to laugh.

#21 Posted by CATMANEXE (17045 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@LightBright:
I honestly love it when the legal implications of comic book acts threads start.
inferiorego was doing a bunch of good ones for a bit there. he should start that again,.

#22 Posted by Mainline (1127 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@CATMANEXE said:

" @Mainline: I don't think they would risk that either way.

I'm not saying they would pursue the case or would win, I'm saying that the laws of Thundra's home would not be a defense or justification. The other things you list are practical reasons not to pursue it, but as I already stated, the alleged crime fails to meet the definition of rape anyways so that legal avenue is closed to begin with and the court would not extend jurisdiction over such a matter in a civil-only case.

I've only read so much Hulk so I can't tell if the child support stuff is you joking or not... assuming you're joking, uh... ha. If not, and that's the story, then again the laws of Thundra's home would not be a defense because she submitted to the jurisdiction of Hulk's court by demanding child support. If that's the case then technically an internal resolution is not allowed... the court always intervenes on behalf of the "best interests of the child" (which may well be the same action the parents agree to, but the court is not allowed to just let the parents do whatever). But once again, this is all legal... as a practical matter Hulks aren't particularly law abiding anyways.

#23 Edited by CATMANEXE (17045 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline:
good eitherway but as I said this is out of our hands. we here in the Marvel Universe answer to the higher authority
of the cosmos.

Edit: and i do like what your saying and agree with at all actually (and i pray your never against me in a court room). just applying semantics.
i always mind that any of our own sciences never really aplly to fictional worlds, especially comics, and it takes some thinking outside the box
to dictate how it works there. because lets be honest, if we were able to apply our laws there, every character in that universe would be in the
system.

#24 Posted by warlord1234 (1215 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

@davidkenneth said:

"
Is it just me or was the Hulk raped? I mean granted, him and Thundra didn't have sex but she still took his DNA and had Lyra. So would this be considered rape?
"

He was not raped because raped is force sex. But regardless of what happen he was still violated.

#25 Posted by davidkenneth (443 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

Wow it would be really cool if a moderator or a staff member would want to follow me or comment. Just saying.

#26 Posted by Theworldbreaker (1642 posts) - 2 years, 7 months ago - Show Bio

HULK DONT WANT TO BE RAPED STOP TOUCHING HULK IN BAD PLACES OR HULK WILL SMASH!!!!!
Thundra: smash in what way? hehehe
Hulk: NO STOP PULLING HULK'S PANTS DOWN DONT PUT YOUR HAND IN TH-

ROFLE no he was not raped.

#27 Posted by Walker696 (985 posts) - 2 years, 4 months ago - Show Bio

funny our best and brightest are actually debating over this lol

#28 Posted by Cherry Bomb (3189 posts) - 2 years, 4 months ago - Show Bio

How did she get his sperm? :S while he was sleeping?
damn, she must be sneaky ....

#29 Posted by MrFantastic (248 posts) - 2 years, 4 months ago - Show Bio

@Mainline said:

The tricky bit here would not so much be the location but the time issue, but there's literally a She-Hulk precedent on this which addresses the issue of time-travel causation crime... so, if it was a crime in Hulk's time/jurisdiction, they could hold Thundra accountable legally (in practice is another story). "

Ah, but the statute of limitation would have run its course by the time she returned to her time.

Case closed!

#30 Posted by LordMaverick (4388 posts) - 2 years, 4 months ago - Show Bio

She hulk would rape him!

#31 Posted by PowerHerc (50780 posts) - 2 years, 4 months ago - Show Bio

Wronged? Tricked? Used? Maybe.

Raped? No.

Hulk

After becoming accidentally bombarded with a massive dose of gamma radiation during the testing of an experimental bomb, Dr. Bruce Banner was transformed into the Incredible Hulk: a green behemoth who is the living personification of rage and pure physical strength.

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