Marvel's gigantism: Adaptation or misstep?

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#1 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

When Stan Lee an Jack Kirby invented the Hulk, they imagined a heavy, big guy who was stronger than any other hero. Hulk was - so to speak - an ultimate reinforced form of an average human. At the beginning the Hulk was 6.6 ft with the muscular physique of a furniture packer. Later he changed the skin color and grew to 7 ft. Here some pictures:

Bruce Banner and Rick Jones are 5.9 ft tall, note that Iron Man is not much smaller than Hulk, or look at the picture with the woman; nevertheless, Hulk's feats of strength are very impressive (which incidentally is the reason for his attribute "Incredible"

Over time the image of Hulk changed. The big, strong brute became a muscular colossus:

Not only Hulk became a colossus, even one of his enemies; what is the reason: craving for superlatives, a bored audience, or is it because we are bigger today?

I've looked around a lot in various forums and found different opinions:

  • Hulk should be 7 ft tall, because that is his size."
  • Hulk's current size in comics is 9 ft.
  • Hulk must be a giant, he´s the Hulk, he must be bigger then all other people in the world.
  • The tallest man in history is Robert Wadlow, he is 2,72 m. So Hulk must be taller than him.
  • Hulk´s size doesn´t matter, it is his unlimited strength which makes him incredible.
  • Hulk should grow.
  • He´s the Incredible Hulk, not the inflatable Hulk.
  • How can he throw a tank if he is only 7 ft tall?
  • Who says he can not throw a tank when he is 7 ft tall?
  • Superman is not a giant, yet is incredibly strong.
  • What makes the Hulk incredible? If he is a giant, then throwing a tank is nothing incredible. But if he is only a little taller than other people, then his feats are really incredible.
  • 8 ft
  • 9 ft
  • 10 ft
  • 11 ft
  • 12 ft
  • 15 ft

Is a 7 ft Hulk really so puny? Let´s have a look:

The man in this picture is 1.82 m

As you can see on the pictures, 7 ft is not as small as it seems. Dirk Nowitzki e.g. is just as tall as the "giant" in the pictures. But since he is not so massive, he looks rather long than huge. Hulk is a symbol of boundless and unlimited power. He was not planned as a giant or colossus, but as a big guy who smashed everything when one make him angry. Bruce Banner is around 1.80 m tall and weighs 58 kg. He transforms into a 2.13 m tall Hulk who weighs about 471 kg. So Hulk is 34 cm taller than Bruce, but much wider and more muscular. Consequently, 7ft is much comprehensible than 10 ft or 15 ft (at least it seems so).

In one of my other forums I asked how it would be if Hulk could increase his body weight. The idea is that Hulk can adapt any situation (danger). If he wants to raise or throw an object that weighs more than him, he just increased his body weight. Thus, he would be able to handle any object. Imagine, Hulk is standing on a street and a Hummer (3559 kg) with a speed of 5o km/h wants to run over him. Hulk's weight is 7 tons. Bam! Or a tank. This gives unlimited possibilities (suspension of disbelief, please leave aside). Back to the topic ...

I think 7 ft a respectable size for the Hulk. He's big, but not gigantic. He is strong, but you can see it only when he strikes. And that's what makes him incredible.

The man in this picture is 1.82 m

So, what do you think? Marvel's gigantism: Adaptation or misstep?

#2 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

We've been through this. Hulk is supposed to be a bulky mass ice monster, sure he is a hero at hart, but his size is actually very important. whats srikes more fear, a guy slightly taller than you running towards you or a HUGE rage machine monster CHARGING towards you with all his fury?

#3 Posted by Veshark (9058 posts) - - Show Bio

All characters change and develop overtime - personally I prefer the large tank Hulk as opposed to the shorter stockier one.

#4 Posted by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

We've been through this. Hulk is supposed to be a bulky mass ice monster, sure he is a hero at hart, but his size is actually very important. whats srikes more fear, a guy slightly taller than you running towards you or a HUGE rage machine monster CHARGING towards you with all his fury?

That makes Hulk sound so shit >_>

#5 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull said:

We've been through this. Hulk is supposed to be a bulky mass ice monster, sure he is a hero at hart, but his size is actually very important. whats srikes more fear, a guy slightly taller than you running towards you or a HUGE rage machine monster CHARGING towards you with all his fury?

That makes Hulk sound so shit >_>

Why?

#6 Edited by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Because I want a dangerously ferocious killing machine >___> Not a rage monster >_>

#7 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull: Because I want a dangerously ferocious killing machine >___> Not a age monster >_>

Age? when did i mention age?

#8 Posted by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio
#9 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

Not saying he should be A RAGE MONSTER, i meant that the bigger he is the cooler he is to me

#10 Edited by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: I have never thought Hulk as cool ( Thor aint cool either <.< ), but we agree on the giant thing.

#11 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull: I have never thought Hulk as cool ( Thor aint cool either <.< ), but we agree on the giant thing.

Isn't thor your fav? how CAN he not be cool to you?( maybe we're talking about different cool'Z)

#12 Posted by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Wolverine is cool. Thor is mighty. Hulk is strong.

#13 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull: Wolverine is cool. Thor is mighty. Hulk is strong.

WE SHALL NOT SPEAK OF WOLVERINE! XD

#14 Edited by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Wolverine is a beast :p Way cooler than Thor or Hulk. Guy has claws. Hulk has knuckles, Thor has a hammer. Wolverine has metal bones ffs! Coolest.

#15 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull: Wolverine is a beast :p Way cooler than Thor or Hulk. Guy has claws. Hulk has knuckles, Thor has a hammer. Wolverine has metal bones ffs! Coolest.

NUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU!

so you like wolverine more than thor eh? :P

#16 Edited by Pyrogram (34967 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: No, But anybody with claws in their knuckles is cooler than a monster or a God.

#17 Posted by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Counter question: What is more incredible: a 7 ft bulky guy who can mow down anything or a 10 ft - 15 ft giant who can do this anyway? He´s "The Incredible Hulk" not "The Mighty Colossus". What's so amazing when a 15 ft giant raises or throws a tank? When I see a heavy guy who rammed or smashed a tank with his 7ft, then I would call that "Incredible". In addition, a 7 ft Hulk can better interact with the Avengers. But that´s just my opinion.

#18 Edited by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

@theacidskull: Counter question: What is more incredible: a 7 ft bulky guy who can mow down anything or a 10 ft - 15 ft giant who can do this anyway? He´s "The Incredible Hulk" not "The Mighty Colossus". What's so amazing when a 15 ft giant raises or throws a tank? When I see a heavy guy who rammed or smashed a tank with his 7ft, then I would call that "Incredible". In addition, a 7 ft Hulk can better interact with the Avengers. But that´s just my opinion.

Hulk AT least should be 8-9 feet tall, he is the HULK , not colossus. his size should show how formidable he is and his appearance should make people understand his Power. His size doesn't determine how incredible he is.

@pyrogram said:

@theacidskull: No, But anybody with claws in their knuckles is cooler than a monster or a God.

Monster>Guys with claws :P

#19 Posted by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: Smaller doesn´t look bad :-)

Hulk and Rick Jones

#20 Posted by SC (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

I prefer smaller Hulk as he was originally drawn and written. Hulk should be the underdog with a secret that evens out the odds, not the big bully. Its just that overtime Hulk has become more like characters like Superman and Hercules as more fans and writers idealize him more which is sort of ironic because Hulk was suppose to be the opposite of those kinds of characters. Sometimes heroes aren't the prettiest, strongest, greatest or most ideal. When Hulk asserted he was strongest its because he wanted to be strong, and thats what made him sympathetic and one of the most sympathetic human characters around . Oh and he actually was really really strong too. Similar to when he wanted to be left alone, it was actually more child speak, he just wanted to be accepted and loved. However its the nature of things, especially those that resonate with people to fluctuate to extremes. Depends on the writer/artist/story and isn't necessarily a good or bad thing, just different. My personal preference is for a more unique and tragic Hulk - comics is filled with enough characters that exist to provide vicarious pleasures for fans. My fav Hulk is almost as wide as he is tall, he looks rough, he looks strange as far as societal norms. To considerate, empathetic people who don't care for the superficial Hulk actually looks like a big softie much like the above picture which I think is an awesome Hulk. How sweet and cool is that image!

Moderator
#21 Posted by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@sc: I totally agree.

#22 Edited by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

When Stan Lee invented the Hulk???

When was that?

#23 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone: I guess that was in the 60s. In 1962 the first issue was published.

#24 Edited by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

@turoksonofstone: I guess that was in the 60s. In 1962 the first issue was published.

My point is Stan Lee did very little of the Conceptualizing of Size that was %100 Jack Kirby. Kirby would of more or less decided Hulks actual size in relation to ordinary characters and then Stan would Approve it. Hulk manifests in different various distinct incarnations which have case specific heights, weights, and strength levels. Savage Hulk was always depicted as a giant for instance while grey Hulk is depicted as shorter in stature and similar to his early form.

#25 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone:

Savage Hulk was never depicted as a giant.

Savage Hulk: 7 ft

Grey Hulk: 6,6 ft

I think 7 ft is enough, neither too big nor too small.

#26 Posted by LaserLambert (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

When Stan Lee invented the Hulk, he imagined a heavy, big guy who was stronger than any other hero. Hulk was - so to speak - an ultimate reinforced form of an average human. At the beginning the Hulk was 6.6 ft with the muscular physique of a furniture packer. Later he changed the skin color and grew to 7 ft. Here some pictures:

It is disgusting that you say Stan Lee and not Jack Kirby.

#27 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio
#28 Edited by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

@turoksonofstone:

Savage Hulk was never depicted as a giant.

Savage Hulk: 7 ft

Grey Hulk: 6,6 ft

I think 7 ft is enough, neither too big nor too small.

Meh no, Hulk forms have Variable Heights and Weights and Hulk has stood taller than 7 feet for sure.

@zardu said:

@laserlambert: I added Jack Kirby.

As far as I know, Stan Lee had the basig idea for the Hulk. Jack Kirby designed him.

http://www.webofstories.com/play/stan.lee/16;jsessionid=9DDC1091DF5ABC5356AF3CC01EDCCA2C

Checking this link it seems You are misinformed, Stan Lee likes to take credit for Jack Kirbys work he always has.

In the Link you posted he does not mention Jack Kirby and pretty much admits he is lying.

Q: If Stan Lee created the highly profitable Marvel Heroes why didn't he create More?? Can you name any characters of note Stan Created before or after his time working with Kirby?

A: Because he didn't create them kids. Stan Lee is was and always will be a thieving lying hack. Listen to his Interviews he can't remember anything cause he was out spending the money Jack Kirbys creations were bringing in and taking all the credit for creating them.

Nuff' Said.

#29 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

Hmm. First two Marvel Handbooks list Hulk at 7 feet tall.

#30 Posted by PowerHerc (81458 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Hulk should be a huge, ripped and stand about 8 feet tall.

#31 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

I think the Hulk should be a huge, ripped and stand about 8 feet tall.

YES! he is the hulk dammit :P

#32 Edited by SC (12675 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone said:

Quoted for the Truth, I agree with! This! Did you guys know that Stan Lee's kids are actually Jack Kirby's? Probably not, but then again all you mainstreamers and unquestioners and norms like to buy the disgusting lies and false milk from the sacred cows like Stan Lee. Moo cattle, moo!

As an advocate of Jack Kirby (a sincere one, I just actually made a point in a thread about writing/art how Kirby was the main drive behind story, not the "writer" because art can and does tell a story and Kirby is a great example of an artist being undermined as a storyteller merely because he was the "artist") and so when posters or other people highlight Stan Lee when maybe their praise should be directed at Jack Kirby? I make sure I lose my objective, non judgmental, considerate and patient attitude and adopt a more extreme preachy polarizing attitude because thats obviously the best way to help other people understand that Kirby was king and under appreciated and often unrecognized because Stan Lee's more pronounced personality and shady dealings. Just shout at people, accuse their phrasing of being disgusting and ask them cryptic questions to demonstrate better comic book knowledge/history even at the expense of looking past their innocent enough comment talking about something else =p

Oh hey wasn't the Official Marvel Handbooks first printed 20 years after Hulk appeared? I am not sure, could you clarify when your scans are from? I think the OP's point was that Jack Kirby drew Hulk smaller than artist who came after him drew the Hulk, Hulk's a fictional character, its other artists that get to decide how he gets changed, but I guess its okay to forget Jack Kirby contributions and ideas when it comes to changes one personally approves. From what I recall Kirby was inspired by the mother who rescued who trapped child under a car, the strength that comes from adrenaline, emotion, fear, anger, wanting to protect a loved one. So I guess it depends what readers want to see in Hulk. Do they want to see a vehicle for vicarious living, some external creature that represents their own internal state of emotions and psychology? Or do they want a creature who is akin to a mother drawing on incredible strength to save an innocent in times of need. Males often want to be bigger. Guy psychology 101. I think its personally telling that Kirby is referenced as being inspired by a woman. Maybe the balance is somewhere inbetween male fantasy and artist inspiration.

Moderator
#33 Posted by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone: Do you have any proof that Stan Lee is not the inventor of the the Marvel characters?

#34 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: Do you think 30.48 cm more makes a difference? Or in other words: 30.48 cm less and Hulk is not the Hulk?

#35 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

@turoksonofstone: Do you have any proof that Stan Lee is not the inventor of the the Marvel characters?

Yes, I have seen plenty of it. Jack Kirby was creating Marvel Superheroes (Many still in use) during the Golden Age while Stan was just an office errand boy getting Kirby his coffee and Cigars. Kirby created Marvel characters in every era but Stan Lee was only involved during the Silver Age and as Editor/"writer" he used the Marvel Method and his position to steal credit from Kirby and Ditko. Kirby went back to Marvel and created more characters without Stan involved during the Bronze and Modern Ages. Steve Ditko created Dr.Strange and Stan Lee co-created Spider-man with Ditko and Kirby but the majority of Marvels other big stars are Kirby designs.

Do You have any proof that Stan Lee is the creator of the Marvel characters?

@sc said:

@turoksonofstone said:

Quoted for the Truth, I agree with! This! Did you guys know that Stan Lee's kids are actually Jack Kirby's? Probably not, but then again all you mainstreamers and unquestioners and norms like to buy the disgusting lies and false milk from the sacred cows like Stan Lee. Moo cattle, moo!

As an advocate of Jack Kirby (a sincere one, I just actually made a point in a thread about writing/art how Kirby was the main drive behind story, not the "writer" because art can and does tell a story and Kirby is a great example of an artist being undermined as a storyteller merely because he was the "artist") and so when posters or other people highlight Stan Lee when maybe their praise should be directed at Jack Kirby? I make sure I lose my objective, non judgmental, considerate and patient attitude and adopt a more extreme preachy polarizing attitude because thats obviously the best way to help other people understand that Kirby was king and under appreciated and often unrecognized because Stan Lee's more pronounced personality and shady dealings. Just shout at people, accuse their phrasing of being disgusting and ask them cryptic questions to demonstrate better comic book knowledge/history even at the expense of looking past their innocent enough comment talking about something else =p

Oh hey wasn't the Official Marvel Handbooks first printed 20 years after Hulk appeared? I am not sure, could you clarify when your scans are from? I think the OP's point was that Jack Kirby drew Hulk smaller than artist who came after him drew the Hulk, Hulk's a fictional character, its other artists that get to decide how he gets changed, but I guess its okay to forget Jack Kirby contributions and ideas when it comes to changes one personally approves. From what I recall Kirby was inspired by the mother who rescued who trapped child under a car, the strength that comes from adrenaline, emotion, fear, anger, wanting to protect a loved one. So I guess it depends what readers want to see in Hulk. Do they want to see a vehicle for vicarious living, some external creature that represents their own internal state of emotions and psychology? Or do they want a creature who is akin to a mother drawing on incredible strength to save an innocent in times of need. Males often want to be bigger. Guy psychology 101. I think its personally telling that Kirby is referenced as being inspired by a woman. Maybe the balance is somewhere inbetween male fantasy and artist inspiration.

Ach. You are correct.

#36 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone: I found this interview:

GROTH; When did you meet Stan Lee for the first time?

KIRBY: I met Stan Lee when I first went to work for Marvel. He was a little boy. When Joe and I were doing Captain America. He was about 13 years old. He’s about five years younger than me.

GROTH: Did you keep in touch with him at all?

KIRBY: No, I thought Stan Lee was a bother.

GROTH: [Laughter.]

KIRBY: I did!

GROTH: What do you mean by “bother”?

KIRBY: You know he was the kind of kid that liked to fool around — open and close doors on you. Yeah. In fact,once I told Joe to throw him out of the room.

GROTH; Because he was a pest?

KIRBY: Yes, he was a pest. Stan Lee was a pest. He liked to irk people and it was one thing I couldn’t take.

GROTH: Hasn’t changed a bit, huh?

KIRBY: He hasn’t changed a bit. I couldn’t do anything about Stan Lee because he was the publisher’s cousin. He ran back and forth around New York doing things that he was told to do. He would slam doors and come up to you and look over your shoulder and annoy you in a lot of ways. Joe would probably elaborate on it.

GROTH: When you went to Marvel in ’58 and ’59, Stan was obviously there.

KIRBY: Yes, and he was the same way.

GROTH: And you two collaborated on all the monster stories?

KIRBY: Stan Lee and I never collaborated on anything! I’ve never seen Stan Lee write anything. I used to write the stories just like I always did.

GROTH: On all the monster stories it says “Stan Lee and Jack Kirby.” What did he do to warrant his name being on them?

KIRBY: Nothing! OK?

GROTH: Did he dialogue them?

KIRBY: No, I dialogued them. If Stan Lee ever got a thing dialogued, he would get it from someone working in the office. I would write out the whole story on the back of every page. I would write the dialogue on the back or a description of what was going on. Then Stan Lee would hand them to some guy and he would write in the dialogue. In this way Stan Lee made more pay than he did as an editor. This is the way Stan Lee became the writer. Besides collecting the editor’s pay, he collected writer’s pay. I’m not saying Stan Lee had a bad business head on. I think he took advantage of whoever was working for him.

GROTH: But he was essentially serving in a capacity as an editorial liaison between you and the publisher?

KIRBY: Yes, he wasn’t exactly an editor, or anything like that. Even as a young boy, he’d be hopping around — I think he had a flute, and he was playing on his flute.

GROTH: The Pied Piper.

KIRBY: Yeah. He’d come up and annoy me, and I told Joe to throw him out.

GROTH: Stan wrote, “Jack and I were having a ball turning out monster stories.’’ Were you having a ball. Jack?

KIRBY: Stan Lee was having the ball.

GROTH: Well, this is probably going to shock you, but Stan takes full credit for creating the Hulk. He’s written, “Actually, ideas have always been the easiest part of my various chores.” And then he went on to say that in creating The Hulk, “It would be my job to take a clichéd concept and make it seem new and fresh and exciting and relevant. Once again, I decided that Jack Kirby would be the artist to breathe life into our latest creation. So the next time we met, I outlined the concept I’d been toying with for weeks.”

KIRBY: Yes, he was always toying with concepts. On the contrary, it was I who brought the ideas to Stan. I brought the ideas to DC as well, and that’s how business was done from the beginning.

GROTH: Stan also claimed he created the name. “the Hulk.”

KIRBY: No, he didn’t.

ROZ KIRBY: It’s just his word against Stan’s.

GROTH: There was a period between ’61 and ’63 when you were just drawing a tremendous number of books.

ROZ KIRBY: May I make one point? In all these years, when Jack was still creating things, Stan Lee hasn’t been creating things. When Jack left Stan, there wasn’t anything new created by Stan.

KIRBY: Yeah. Stan never created anything new after that. If he says he created things all that easily, what did he create after I left? That’s the point. Have they done anything new? He’ll probably tell you, “I didn’t have to.” (http://www.tcj.com/jack-kirby-interview/6/)

Full interview:

http://www.tcj.com/jack-kirby-interview/

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Well, I don´t know what to make of it. Roz Kirby says: "It’s just his word against Stan’s." On the other hand, and that´s not to disrespect, I don´t care. Whether Kirby or Lee, I'm only interested in the size of the Hulk (at least in this thread). I think 7 ft is a lot of Hulk, just right to be a great personality and to smash anything he wants. With 7 ft he became famous and with this size he can remain so.

Puny humans :-)

#37 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

@turoksonofstone: I found this interview:

Well, I don´t know what to make of it. Roz Kirby says: "It’s just his word against Stan’s." On the other hand, and that´s not to disrespect, I don´t care. Whether Kirby or Lee, I'm only interested in the size of the Hulk (at least in this thread). I think 7 ft is a lot of Hulk, just right to be a great personality and to smash anything he wants. With 7 ft he became famous and with this size he can remain so.

Puny humans :-)

Great Interview. Jack Kirby was lucky to have a woman like Roz. It was Roz Kirby who temporarily prevented Jack from giving Marvel very many new characters after Jack created Silver Surfer. Which is why DC got the Fourth World instead of Marvel. Sorry for dragging thread off topic.

As far as the Height is concerned I am comfortable with Hulk having inconsistent height that varies by type of Hulk.

The 7ft Original design is a favorite of mine but I think all the way up to 12 feet tall is cool.

#38 Posted by Billy Batson (57737 posts) - - Show Bio

Q: If Stan Lee created the highly profitable Marvel Heroes why didn't he create More?? Can you name any characters of note Stan Created before or after his time working with Kirby?

A: Because he didn't create them kids. Stan Lee is was and always will be a thieving lying hack. Listen to his Interviews he can't remember anything cause he was out spending the money Jack Kirbys creations were bringing in and taking all the credit for creating them.

Nuff' Said.

Hey! Stan created She-Hulk (which wasn't his idea) and Stripparella. Those are some great imaginative characters.

BB

#39 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

You don´t have to be sorry. I am glad that you have raised this issue. Now I know a little more. Here I found an article, in which the whole thing is depicted in a slightly different way. It is claimed that Kirby should have lied as well:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I doubt there’s been a more polarizing figure in the history of comic books than Stan Lee. Depending on whom you believe he’s a shyster, a creator, a fraud, a visionary, a liar, misunderstood or an opportunist. It’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have a strong opinion of the man and there are distinct camps, those who believe that Stan Lee had no input into the creation of the Marvel Universe as we know it and that he took credit for the work of Jack Kirby. There are those who believe that both Stan and Jack collaborated, and those who feel that the Kirby camp continually try to dismiss Stan’s role and place in the history of comic books. Stan, self-admittedly, has a shockingly poor memory; however this is nothing new – he’s been stating that for decades now. Stan doesn’t remember things as well as people would want him to, but then, for some, it matters not – unless Stan were to come out and state that Jack Kirby created, wrote and edited everything that Marvel produced in the Silver Age, then they’ll refuse to believe anything he says. However some of what Stan says has remained consistent over the years and the bulk of the following was taken from his 2010 depositions, as submitted in the Marvel vs Kirby court case. What is important to remember is that a deposition is taken under oath – if Stan was lying, and was found out, then the penalties would be severe. Call Stan what you want, but I don’t believe he’s an idiot, nor do I believe that he’d be foolish enough to lie under oath. It’s a pity that Jack Kirby was never placed under oath to detail the creation of the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Spider-Man and others.Curiously, as I was putting this together I referenced some other Stan Lee interviews, dating back to the 1960s. His stories have fairly much stayed the same, which struck me as being very odd indeed, as the inference is that Stan has changed his stories over the years. There is the famous story that Stan came up with the idea for Spider-Man after seeing a spider walking on a wall, but that seems to be an aberration. It’s also worth noting that when the stories of Marvel’s origins were being told in the early 1970s, Kirby was no longer working for the company and clearly Martin Goodman had no desire to promote an artist working for DC. That might explain some of the inconsistencies, but, in interviews at least, Stan has remained, for the most part, consistent.

This isn’t to say that Stan Lee hasn’t been entirely truthful over the years. I expect that Stan Lee has lied on occasion when it comes to aspects of the creation of the Marvel Universe, in the same way that Jack Kirby lied when he stated that he and Stan never collaborated, or that Stan never wrote anything, in the same way that Joe Simon appears to have lied when he states that Jack Kirby had no involvement in the creation of Captain America. Nobody is perfect. Memory is a fickle thing at best, and what needs to be taken into consideration is that people are asking elderly people to recall events, decades later, that meant next to nothing at the time. That’s difficult at the best of time.

What we have here is a small part of the creation of the Marvel Universe, as told by people who were there and had an active role. The main focus is on that eternal debate, Stan Lee vs Jack Kirby, with the Lee quotes coming from a few sources, but mainly from his 2010 depositions. Kirby’s quotes are taken from various interviews, some from his Comics Journal interviews, along with interviews with Greg Theakston. Other quotes come from interviews that I have done, such as Larry Lieber, Joe Sinnott, John Romita and Dick Ayers. Have a read and you decide who told the truth – but remember this, ultimately we weren’t there and to make a supposition that you have that absolute knowledge is dangerous at best.

Full article:

http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2011/09/stan-lee-jack-kirby-et-althe-birth-of.html

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is strange as well:

http://www.hollywood.com/news/brief/1696116/stan-lee-sues-marvel?page=all

#40 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@turoksonofstone said:

@zardu said:

@turoksonofstone: I found this interview:

Well, I don´t know what to make of it. Roz Kirby says: "It’s just his word against Stan’s." On the other hand, and that´s not to disrespect, I don´t care. Whether Kirby or Lee, I'm only interested in the size of the Hulk (at least in this thread). I think 7 ft is a lot of Hulk, just right to be a great personality and to smash anything he wants. With 7 ft he became famous and with this size he can remain so.

Puny humans :-)

Great Interview. Jack Kirby was lucky to have a woman like Roz. It was Roz Kirby who temporarily prevented Jack from giving Marvel very many new characters after Jack created Silver Surfer. Which is why DC got the Fourth World instead of Marvel. Sorry for dragging thread off topic.

As far as the Height is concerned I am comfortable with Hulk having inconsistent height that varies by type of Hulk.

The 7ft Original design is a favorite of mine but I think all the way up to 12 feet tall is cool.

Hulk will punish you for your insolence :-)

#41 Edited by PowerHerc (81458 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

I think the Hulk should be a huge, ripped and stand about 8 feet tall.

YES! he is the hulk dammit :P

@zardu said:

@powerherc: Do you think 30.48 cm more makes a difference? Or in other words: 30.48cm less and Hulk is not the Hulk?

I don't think making the Hulk taller detracts from his identity. I do think making him smaller/shorter does detract from his identity. I also don't think the Hulk should physically grow larger after is initial transformation into his monstrous form. He grows stronger with anger but he shouldn't grow larger with anger.

#42 Posted by TheAcidSkull (17239 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull said:

@powerherc said:

I think the Hulk should be a huge, ripped and stand about 8 feet tall.

YES! he is the hulk dammit :P

@zardu said:

@powerherc: Do you think 30.48 cm more makes a difference? Or in other words: 30.48cm less and Hulk is not the Hulk?

I don't think making the Hulk taller detracts from his identity. I do think making him smaller/shorter does detract from his identity. I also don't think the Hulk should physically grow larger after is initial transformation into his monstrous form. He grows stronger with anger but he shouldn't grow larger with anger.

he shouldn't grow, but he should be at least 8 to 10 feet tall.

#43 Posted by PowerHerc (81458 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc said:

@theacidskull said:

@powerherc said:

I think the Hulk should be a huge, ripped and stand about 8 feet tall.

YES! he is the hulk dammit :P

@zardu said:

@powerherc: Do you think 30.48 cm more makes a difference? Or in other words: 30.48cm less and Hulk is not the Hulk?

I don't think making the Hulk taller detracts from his identity. I do think making him smaller/shorter does detract from his identity. I also don't think the Hulk should physically grow larger after is initial transformation into his monstrous form. He grows stronger with anger but he shouldn't grow larger with anger.

he shouldn't grow, but he should be at least 8 to 10 feet tall.

Yes.

#44 Posted by turoksonofstone (13199 posts) - - Show Bio

@zardu said:

You don´t have to be sorry. I am glad that you have raised this issue. Now I know a little more. Here I found an article, in which the whole thing is depicted in a slightly different way. It is claimed that Kirby should have lied as well:

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I doubt there’s been a more polarizing figure in the history of comic books than Stan Lee. Depending on whom you believe he’s a shyster, a creator, a fraud, a visionary, a liar, misunderstood or an opportunist. It’s hard to find anyone who doesn’t have a strong opinion of the man and there are distinct camps, those who believe that Stan Lee had no input into the creation of the Marvel Universe as we know it and that he took credit for the work of Jack Kirby. There are those who believe that both Stan and Jack collaborated, and those who feel that the Kirby camp continually try to dismiss Stan’s role and place in the history of comic books. Stan, self-admittedly, has a shockingly poor memory; however this is nothing new – he’s been stating that for decades now. Stan doesn’t remember things as well as people would want him to, but then, for some, it matters not – unless Stan were to come out and state that Jack Kirby created, wrote and edited everything that Marvel produced in the Silver Age, then they’ll refuse to believe anything he says. However some of what Stan says has remained consistent over the years and the bulk of the following was taken from his 2010 depositions, as submitted in the Marvel vs Kirby court case. What is important to remember is that a deposition is taken under oath – if Stan was lying, and was found out, then the penalties would be severe. Call Stan what you want, but I don’t believe he’s an idiot, nor do I believe that he’d be foolish enough to lie under oath. It’s a pity that Jack Kirby was never placed under oath to detail the creation of the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, Spider-Man and others.Curiously, as I was putting this together I referenced some other Stan Lee interviews, dating back to the 1960s. His stories have fairly much stayed the same, which struck me as being very odd indeed, as the inference is that Stan has changed his stories over the years. There is the famous story that Stan came up with the idea for Spider-Man after seeing a spider walking on a wall, but that seems to be an aberration. It’s also worth noting that when the stories of Marvel’s origins were being told in the early 1970s, Kirby was no longer working for the company and clearly Martin Goodman had no desire to promote an artist working for DC. That might explain some of the inconsistencies, but, in interviews at least, Stan has remained, for the most part, consistent.

This isn’t to say that Stan Lee hasn’t been entirely truthful over the years. I expect that Stan Lee has lied on occasion when it comes to aspects of the creation of the Marvel Universe, in the same way that Jack Kirby lied when he stated that he and Stan never collaborated, or that Stan never wrote anything, in the same way that Joe Simon appears to have lied when he states that Jack Kirby had no involvement in the creation of Captain America. Nobody is perfect. Memory is a fickle thing at best, and what needs to be taken into consideration is that people are asking elderly people to recall events, decades later, that meant next to nothing at the time. That’s difficult at the best of time.

What we have here is a small part of the creation of the Marvel Universe, as told by people who were there and had an active role. The main focus is on that eternal debate, Stan Lee vs Jack Kirby, with the Lee quotes coming from a few sources, but mainly from his 2010 depositions. Kirby’s quotes are taken from various interviews, some from his Comics Journal interviews, along with interviews with Greg Theakston. Other quotes come from interviews that I have done, such as Larry Lieber, Joe Sinnott, John Romita and Dick Ayers. Have a read and you decide who told the truth – but remember this, ultimately we weren’t there and to make a supposition that you have that absolute knowledge is dangerous at best.

Full article:

http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com/2011/09/stan-lee-jack-kirby-et-althe-birth-of.html

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This is strange as well:

http://www.hollywood.com/news/brief/1696116/stan-lee-sues-marvel?page=all

Plain unbiased research will confirm my opinions by all means have at it. Ohdannyboy is a solid Blog with good data but is a very corporate biased source IMO.

#45 Edited by Zardu (345 posts) - - Show Bio

@powerherc: The green Hulk has always been 7 ft. So how can one make him smaller? You're making him bigger :-)

Joking aside: Each Hulk has his advantages and disadvantages. Ultimately one´s own taste decides. Maybe it's just a matter of getting used to.

The audience decided as follows:

  • Ang Lee Hulk: Too big
  • Norton Hulk: Too small
  • Ruffalo Hulk: Tiny

Then the picture changed:

  • Ang Lee Hulk: Too big/Must be gigantic
  • Norton Hulk: Perfekt size
  • Ruffalo Hulk: Perfekt size

Most are satisfied with the Ruffalo Hulk, although he is only 8 ft tall (I'm rather assuming that his size varies). In this picture he looks as if he would be 7 ft tall:

Yes, his knees are bent and his upper body is not upright; Robert Downey Jr. is 1.74 m, that´s about the size difference of the 1.82 m man and the 7 ft Hulk in my two pictures; and I have to say: that looks pretty good

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