Ignorance concerning the Hulk's abilites.

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#101 Posted by JediXMan (28031 posts) - - Show Bio

@teerack said:
@jedixman said:

@jj62 said:

@kgb725: I do still think Superman would win, because of his speed. Not strength though.

So you think that Hulk will start every fight at "infinite" status, rather than his base level that he usually has to work with?

Interesting.

I like this post, because you assume talking about the end of a fight is talking about the start of a fight.

That's not what I said. OP said that Hulk would eventually be stronger than Superman as the fight goes on. I say that their base level of strength is different enough that Hulk would not reach that level by the end of the fight. I said as much in my other posts.

#102 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I think Hulk is strong enough to challenge (not match) Superman at base strength. And his strength level will grow over time and he would be able to match or overpower him physically. Hulk is durable enough to survive Superman's punches, he has taken a god blast from Thor without being KO'd. A blast from Galactus too.

Because Hulk is around Thor level strength at base, which is enough to challenge but not overpower Supes.

I think Hulk would last a long time against Superman, he has shown durability feats that would conclude he can take the punches. He is strong enough to contend with but not beat him physically. Over time I do think he would reach that level or maybe surpass it.

That doesn't matter though, because Supes can revert to using his incredible speed and would beat him that way.

#103 Edited by Saren (24391 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

Hulk is durable enough to survive Superman's punches, he has taken a god blast from Thor without being KO'd.

What on Earth? When has this ever happened? Ever?

And please don't get me started on "taking a blast from Galactus....."

Phew, this thread is making Hulk fans look ridiculous.

They don't really need the help.

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#104 Posted by TDK_1997 (13739 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: I think Hulk is strong enough to challenge (not match) Superman at base strength. And his strength level will grow over time and he would be able to match or overpower him physically. Hulk is durable enough to survive Superman's punches, he has taken a god blast from Thor without being KO'd. A blast from Galactus too.

Because Hulk is around Thor level strength at base, which is enough to challenge but not overpower Supes.

I think Hulk would last a long time against Superman, he has shown durability feats that would conclude he can take the punches. He is strong enough to contend with but not beat him physically. Over time I do think he would reach that level or maybe surpass it.

That doesn't matter though, because Supes can revert to using his incredible speed and would beat him that way.

The speed isn't the only thing that will help Supes against Hulk.His Heat vision,freeze breath and other powers he has will be a lot of help to him in a fight against the Hulk.

And I have a question for you:
When has Hulk taken a blast from Galactus and survived?

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#105 Posted by Zardu (332 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: It is not only his anger, any stress such as danger, threat or pain increase his strength.

#106 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: Fear Itself, Thor shoots a god blast at Hulk and angles it in such a way that it sends him way upwards, but he was still awake and still alive. Of course a god blast is more powerful than Superman's punches, a Superman punch wouldn't knock him like that.

#107 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: Secret Wars #9, Hulk takes a cosmic eye blast from big G and survives.

Anyways I agree with you that the heat vision and freeze breath would help a bit too, but the deciding factor would be Superman's Flash level speed. That's just something Hulk can't compete with.

#108 Posted by Saren (24391 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@citizenbane: Fear Itself, Thor shoots a god blast at Hulk and angles it in such a way that it sends him way upwards, but he was still awake and still alive. Of course a god blast is more powerful than Superman's punches, a Superman punch wouldn't knock him like that.

Not only was that not a godblast (the godblast has a specific and noticeable setup; namely that Thor holds the hammer out, usually does a chant, and then fires a blast straight out like this:).......

......but that was an upgraded version of the Hulk. Really, what exactly drove you to believe that was a godblast? It's never stated or even implied as such and the lightning pyrotechnics are something Thor does all the time.

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#109 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@citizenbane: I thought it was due to the fact that Thor's normal lightning hadnt had the same effect on Hulk. That, and on another thread on here a Thor fan said it was. I'm no Thor expert so I took him at his word.

#110 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

None of this is me being a fanboy, there is just a tremendous amount of folks on CV who hate Hulk and then ignore and discredit things he has actually done and has the ability to do. In order to support their cause...I am willing to be completely reasonable and give the opposing characters their due. No one does that when they're supporting the side opposing Hulk in a debate....folks just discredit his abilities in order to suit their purpose.

#111 Posted by Saren (24391 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@citizenbane: I thought it was due to the fact that Thor's normal lightning hadnt had the same effect on Hulk. That, and on another thread on here a Thor fan said it was. I'm no Thor expert so I took him at his word.

Lots of Thor fans will say lots of stuff about lots of things; do your own research. Thor's normal lightning has, in fact, one-shotted Hulk in the past, but Hulk has also withstood it in the past as well; comic books by their very nature are inconsistent.

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#112 Edited by TDK_1997 (13739 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@tdk_1997: Secret Wars #9, Hulk takes a cosmic eye blast from big G and survives.

Anyways I agree with you that the heat vision and freeze breath would help a bit too, but the deciding factor would be Superman's Flash level speed. That's just something Hulk can't compete with.

I see.

Well of course that Superman's speed is one of the biggest factors but the heat vision shouldn't be underrated like most people think.

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#113 Posted by Lone_Wolf_and_Cub (4068 posts) - - Show Bio

At least Hulk's ongoing book isn't complete utter shit. I'm looking at you Action comics and Superman. Though I must admit I'm excited by Superman Unchained.

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#114 Edited by dum529001 (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:

What's Superman going to do???? The only thing he has over Hulk is flight. What's he going to do..... fly at Hulk? He just going to take a punch to the face rushing in like that.

If Superman uses flight as his major asset in this fight, he'll be using it to run away because it won't actually guarantee his victory.

How does Superman have better speed when it comes to striking???? Hulk has shown more impressive striking, so how can Superman outpace him??

People don't like giving honest answers to this stuff. Even thinking about this stuff makes people feel bad for not worshiping Superman like he's an almighty god that no one can match or surpass.

I'm not saying who wins a fight based on what certain people want to hear.

This fight isn't much different than Hulk vs Thor (although Thor is more difficult than Superman due to his hammer, the hammer being the power of Asgard incarnate).

And of course Superman is able K.O. Hulk (Hulk can get knocked out) but destroy him? No way!

#115 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@tdk_1997: Hm...I sort of agree. Butthe heat vision would suffice as a distraction, but you see I've seen Hulk withstand similar heat vision type things. So, yes I would help and it would play a factor. But not AS BIG of a factor as the super speed.

#116 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: No. He can't destroy him.

Look man, this isn't me hating on Hulk. This isn't me lowballing, this is just truth. In a fight Hulk generally can't react to the likes of Spider-Man and Wolverine. While Superman can and has reacted to the Flash.

Superman has FTL combat speed, and it has been shown in the comics. There is nothing in the comics that supports your claim that Hulk has FTL combat speeds.

That's not lowballing, that's not me being a hater. That's just the plain truth.

#118 Posted by dum529001 (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:

Superman generally can't keep up with Toyman, Lex Luthor and every other lame DC villian.

I can lowball too.

There is a distinction to be made when and Hulk and Superman fight characters who are not on their level frequently. Both of them fight differently when their opponent is not on their level and if they didn't do that, the lower level characters would die instantly.

Hulk has fought just about everyone in the MU. He's smashed plenty. Why? Because of his gamma-powered muscles.

The truth of Hulk's combat speed is .....

Hulk is fueled by nuclear power(forces of atomic destruction).

And nuclear power is this.....

Rupturing atoms at their core = gamma rays= Light-speed or faster than light-speed travel = The theory of relativity( E= mc²)

Muscle power is all about the speed of muscle contraction. Muscles put out power by stretching and then rapidly shortening like rubber bands.

Hulk hits with the force of a nuclear arsenal. His muscle contractions move at the speed of light or greater to do that, because of the atom smashing forces that he's fueled by, known as gamma-rays,

Because of this, the writers don't have to directly state Hulk's speed when he's really cutting loose with his striking/thrusting. .

The nature of gamma rays speaks for itself. Constantly stating Hulk's speed would just be redundant.

And of course, Hulk's muscle and skeletal tissue and all his other body tissues are built with the durability that is necessary to withstand putting out such great forces. If he couldn't, his body would fall apart.

You're not only low-balling Hulk by ignoring facts obvious facts about his power, you're also low-balling everyone in the Marvel Universe because all are judged by how they compare to the Hulk in battle.

#119 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: I'm not ignoring anything about him. I have had extensive reading from both Hulk and Superman...(not so much Thor, but I do have a firm grip on what he's capable of) and frankly Hulk has never moved at FTL speeds you speak of. His combat speed and reaction times are sub Spider-Man level. That's not lowballing, that's fact.

Superman can't keep up with Luthor and Toyman?? I don't think he's ever fought them h2h outside of Luthor's suit....in combat speeds, Superman has kept up with Flash and Captain Marvel.

I'm not lowballing the MU, but frankly the only ones who can challenge Flash or Superman in speed are Silver Surfer or Makkari.

Sadly, yes. Thats why Thor and Hulk would both lose to Superman....strength is pretty close for all three of them. But Thor and Hulk are slow as hell compared to Superman....

#120 Edited by dum529001 (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:

If Hulk is so slow then why does he strike at such high velocites???

Again, you're lowballing.

Superman has Toyman, Lex Luthor and every other lame DC villian. That's a fact too.

Taken out of context, I could say that it means Superman is super-slow.

Since Superman is slow by that logic, all his showings of great speed should be discounted.

Is this a lowballing competition or what? lowalling is what you're doing.

And you're wrong about Thor being slow.

#121 Edited by Noteworthington (139 posts) - - Show Bio

99% of the replies here are ignoring the content, and thus the message of the original post. The idea behind Superman, because he is not real, there is just a contextual idea about him, versus the contextual parameters of the Hulk, dictate that the Hulk is stronger.

No semantics about beginning of fights, or ends, or anything can aptly describe an encounter. There would need to be a context for the fight, has Hulk been angry before fighting or having a lift contest with Supes? Would 30 seconds of a fight, or 30 minutes elevate his strength beyond Supermans base?

Superman himself has contextual strength, from both a writer's perspective and era, and due to his personality must often remind even himself of his own strength, to summon the will to perform feats, as any creature.

But I am giving too much credence to the... essentially troll posts here. Contextually, Hulk is defined as being the strongest one there is. Superman is not the strongest being in his Universe, and there is basically no way to compare them save their context.

#122 Posted by TDK_1997 (13739 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@tdk_1997: Hm...I sort of agree. Butthe heat vision would suffice as a distraction, but you see I've seen Hulk withstand similar heat vision type things. So, yes I would help and it would play a factor. But not AS BIG of a factor as the super speed.

It's normal.THat brute body of Hulk and his mass is too much for him to move at such higher speed as Superman.And yes,I do agree with the fact that the speed is the game changing factor.

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#123 Edited by Dark_Vengeance_ (13960 posts) - - Show Bio

That's all nice and pretty but we can all agree that Batman would beat them both in a fight. (He says to start a fight which will cause the people arguing to join forces and attack him causing peace in this thread.)

#125 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: Im done with you....people like YOU are a huge part of the reason people don't like him anymore. Because you guys massively overrate his abilities. Most people underrate them...you overrate them.

Since when does Hulk have FTL speed?? Show me ONE INSTANCE and I will take it all back.

You're taking things out of context, yore saying Superman can't "keep up" with Luthor, when he never fights him h2h except when he's in the suit. Even then Superman has proven to still be way faster.

Hulk can't keep up with Spider-Man's combat speed. Superman can keep up with Flash. THAT'S NOT LOWBALLING, THAT IS A FACT.

You are the reason people talk shit about Hulk fans so much.

I am trying to be objective and reasonable, and prove the haters wrong by showing that even though Hulk has a chance, I still gotta be objective and Superman outclasses him. He does....You are doing the opposite, you are giving Hulk haters someone to point fingers and say that's the way we all are. Just stop!

#126 Posted by SOG7dc (6713 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001:

1. show proof of the hulk moving FTL

2. You cant show proof because he cant do that nor does he have the potential to do that

3.superman could just phase through every punch the hulk throws at him. rendering every part of hulks offense useless

#127 Posted by dum529001 (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62:

People who hate the Hulk will discredit him no matter who he is compared to.

Trying to appease people who will always hate the Hulk, by telling them what they want to hear and not being honest about Hulk's abilities, is a fruitless effort.

Hulk can keep up with the greatest superhumans of Marvel.

Superman has trouble with Toyman, Lex Luthor and other lame DC villains. See? I can lowball too.

Hulk strikes with velocity of gamma rays. Whether you accept that or not changes nothing about the Hulk.

The power of gamma rays on full display here as the Hulk's "gamma-spawned might" can also give light to an "eons-dark cosmos" in Incredible Hulk #126:

Once again, we can see the Hulk's power easily dwarfs any nuclear assault that earth can muster. Here he shown ripping through a bunker designed to withstand the explosion of many thousands of megatons in magnitude. "Against the force of the gamma-energized Hulk.... it fares not well at all inincredible Hulk #177:

#128 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@dum529001: I didn't see anything about him moving faster than light.

I'm not telling people what they want to hear, I'm stating what actually would happen if we put aside personal preference and look objectively.

#129 Edited by TheAcidSkull (15987 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: it's really nice of you to make this thread but as you can see, it causes a lot of flame wars :(, best to avoid such topics.

besides, i don't think hulk is as underrated as he use to be

#130 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (4712 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc: He actually can't do everything a spider can.........He doesn't have organic webs, or 8 eyes, or 8 appendages, etc.

Plenty of heroes have "unlimited strength" if you really want to go off character quotes instead of feats. Thor is said to have unlimited strength, numerous villains said they have unlimited power as well, I guess thats true as well. I think we should start using hyperboles as feats instead.

#131 Posted by GhostRavage (7598 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk is indeed stronger than Superman and Captain Marvel. The thing is Superman is written in order for him to be showing how powerful he is in every issue. Superman's strength could be measured while in Hulk issues in the late 70s tried to do it and the machine just blew up. Also, why on earth will Hulk lift the earth's weight if he doesn't have a plot which suggests him to do it?

Superman best strength feats are always about benching or lifting while Hulk best strength feats are always about resisting forces and smashing. Also, all Superman benching and lifting feats are always done without him fighting... Do you know how difficult would it be for him to bench the earth's weight if he had World Breaker Hulk punching his face at the same time. Obviously it would be impossible.

This scans prove my point.

Superman... Not fighting...
Superman... Not fighting... Again...
Superman... Not fighting... AGAIN.
Superman fighting with a machine!... NOT.

So... my point is if Hulk was put in similar scenarios, like testing his strength same as Superman, he would prove he's the strongest there is. Those feats could be taken into account while talking about strength of a character, but they don't suggest a character can pull that kind of strength in a fight, more like concentrating long enough to pull that kind of feat. Superman does not have a SINGLE feat that proves he uses this kind of strength in battle.

With all this said, Superman beats Hulk only by speed and speed alone, if they go in a straight up brawl, Hulk wins. However, to avoid misinterpretation... If Superman's speed is downgraded to the point of being equal to Hulk, Hulk wins, if Hulk speed is pumped up to the point of having hypersonic battling speed like Superman, Hulk stomps hard.

Thanks for reading.

Floo...... GhostRavage!

#132 Posted by Bezza (2233 posts) - - Show Bio

Just wanted to say that I totally agree with what the Op was saying in this thread, I said a similar thing in a blog recently and got slated for it. People (mainly DC fans) under-estimate Hulk's brute strength. Ok Superman has loads of bench pressing feats, but you cant compare this with Hulk, because Hulk isn't going to be going in for static "lifting the earth" type of stuff. Hulk was designed to be, in brute strength, the strongest there is. Superman has massive strength and speed, hence why he would probably win in a fight with Hulk, which is what the op was saying. Hulk can take masses of punishment and heals very quickly so I think Superman would have his hands full! However, Superman potentially can land multiple micro second blows on Hulk and whilst he is stunned, basically ship him off into space, which I see is the only way he beats Hulk, coz Hulk doesn't generally stay down. Even Zeus had to resort to trickery to stop Hulk healing!!

#133 Posted by Takao0815 (106 posts) - - Show Bio

I always wonder myself is so much value is placed at the heart of the monster on the planet.

Yes planets are large, etc.

but the greater power it was to destroy Lord Armageddon.

If the planet was as big as the earth rich already about 428 X 10 ^ 18 joules. For the Lord is a joke.

I also do not understand why the planets move is seen as sogroße power capacity. Sure the kinetic energy of the Earth 2.7 X 10 ^ 33 joules. (One of the force was not sufficient to keep the Hulk)

But to move around the Earth takes a lot less power.

Every normal person has enough physical strength to push the moon.

Would only be able to fly like a rocket. Very long time. But one community there.

First year about 2 cm. then every year more.

Superman is vastly overrated in my opinion.

#134 Edited by dum529001 (1577 posts) - - Show Bio

The only thing Superman beats Hulk in is a race because Hulk can't fly.

Superman can propel himself without pushing off solid objects. Hulk can't do that. Hulk has to run and jump. Hulk jumps to limit destruction caused his super-strong legs on the environment but even then, due to the immense pressure he can put on the ground, he is limited to hypersonic sonic speeds for long distance travel.

Hulk still beats Superman to the punch, and so he would win in a fight. That's fact many people on CV just don't like and can't seem to deal with.

It seems some people only like facts when it suits them. Only following rules if it sounds good enough to fit their feelings about how they want things to be.

People will say they like the character but then say something that totally contradictory to who and what the character is.

People who do that don't truly like the character. They merely like the image they themselves paint of how they want the character to be, instead of who/what the character truly is.

It may be harsh and controversial to say Hulk beats 99 cent of comic characters but its worse to suggest Superman is God in the flesh. I'm not going to sell bogus garbage just to avoid controversy and misguided character fandom.

The truth hurts. The truth may set you free but first its going to put a hurting on you.

People get mad at the fact that Hulk can knock seven layers of crap out of their favorite character, or already has. Well, guess what? The Hulk kicks a lot of butt. Its his job! You hear that, the distressed comicbook fandom of the world?! Your favorite character is not the only one! Hulk kicks all kinds of butt!

It would be nice to have a conversation without someone doing the following:

A. Misrepresentation of a character in any way.

B. Taking one scene out the context of the rest of the comicbook as well as the character's comicbook history as a whole.

C. Cropping images in order to present scans in out-of-context way.

D. Making random stuff up in order to make up for a lack of information and/or information not being sought after, especially when it is done with motive of promoting favorites.

E. Depending heavily on low showings (fueled by Plot Induced Stupidity) for evidence and refuse to acknowledge numerous high showings.

You get this same load of crap over and over! Its just ignorance mixed with character favoritism.

People + Internet= illogacal Debating Disaster!!

#135 Posted by lifeofvibe (3183 posts) - - Show Bio

dear marvel and dc pleas show these ignorat ass'es whos more powerful and stronger superman

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