Ignorance concerning the Hulk's abilites.

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#1 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

I have created this thread, due to the fact that there is massive ignorance on CV, concerning the Hulk's strength. People ignore and discredit the lore concerning his character in order to suit their cause.

I am a huge Hulk fan (he's my favorite character) but I am willing to be objective and say that, The Hulk would lose to Superman and Captain Marvel more than he wins. He CAN win, but he'd lose more often than not. Not because Superman and Capt. Marvel are "stronger" because outside of their silver age versions, there is no showings of either of them being physically superior to Hulk. However, they are both nigh Flash level speed. They would win due to their speed not strength.

People on this website are generally ignorant concerning Hulk's physical strength. "Superman is easily and by far stronger than Hulk" Is a statement I've heard, it is not true. Outside of precrisis Superman, there is no clear evidence of him being physically superior,

"Hulk unlimited strength is BS" another one, like it or not. He does. Sure it couldn't work in real life, but this is a fictional universe and you must abide by the laws set up in that fictional universe. Hulk has been written to have an unlimited physical strength level since day one, he's been consistently written that way. That's a huge part of what his character is about, that's not bias, that's not me being a fanboy. That's fact, hes been written that way since his inception and discrediting that is pure ignorance and bias.

This is all coming down to one thing, people on CV ignore the facts about this character and discredit his ability to grow stronger because unlimited anger Is impossible.But That's like me saying, that Superman can't fly because thats impossible in real life.

You go by the laws set up in the fictional universe, and Hulk does have an unlimited strength level and he has since day one. Discredit that all you want, you can't, it's fact.

All that being said, Superman and Captain Marvel would indeed beat him. Because of their speed; however outside of Silver age versions there isn't any showings of DC's strong men being physically superior. There just isn't.

People are just ignorant and discredit Hulk's abilities in order to suit their cause.

#2 Edited by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk is overrated.

*puts up flame shield*

... for the record, I'm completely serious. This thread is just one example of that.

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#3 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: How is he overrated? Aside from one particular user who claims Hulk is flash level speedster, who else overrates him??

#4 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

Like I said before, people just ignore a huge part of what his character is about. You can't ignore one part of the lore and accept the other.

#5 Edited by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio
@jj62 said:

@jedixman: How is he overrated? Aside from one particular user who claims Hulk is flash level speedster, who else overrates him??

You.

Or perhaps that's not fair. Maybe Hulk isn't being overrated... but Superman is being underrated. His greatest strength feat is holding a weight comparable to the weight of the Earth itself, consistently, for five days.

What do you have for Hulk? Also, I'm asking for lifting feats, and nothing involving hyperbolic "infinity."

This is a feat of raw strength as well as stamina and endurance.

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#6 Posted by lifeofvibe (3494 posts) - - Show Bio

look up how strong superman is in the new 52 hed punch the hulk out in mere minutes

#7 Edited by lifeofvibe (3494 posts) - - Show Bio

whoops that picture barely came up when posted my thought

#8 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: The Incredible Hulk also crushed a planet with his bare hands. I have never overrated him, I only go by what has been shown in the comics. In the comics, any Superman outside of PC, isn't physically superior to Hulk. Hulk has shown planetary feats as well.

#9 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

is supes doesnt fly and fights him like thor does hed beat him easily. the current hulk is stronger than most incarnations the hulk hate is just getting silly

#10 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

They've both shown feats of lifting/destroying a planet. So I still am not seeing how Superman is stronger. I am not being a fanboy, it's just truth. People consistently underrate him and ignore the powers that he has and discredit them because unlimited anger isn't possible in real life.

That's like me saying Superman can't fly because that's impossible in real life. You can't pick and choose which parts of his character you want to accept. That's being biased.

#11 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: The Incredible Hulk also crushed a planet with his bare hands. I have never overrated him, I only go by what has been shown in the comics. In the comics, any Superman outside of PC, isn't physically superior to Hulk. Hulk has shown planetary feats as well.

Then post them.

Do you have proof that said planet had the same mass as Earth? What was Hulk's condition when he did it? How long did it take him?

Also, I said lifting. Crushing feats involve other factors besides simple strength. And I believe it was theorized that his release of gamma radiation had something to do with his "World Breaking" abilities.

Regardless, from what I understand, the feat you are talking about involved other circumstances that led to that. What I posted is Superman's base level of strength.

It's also worth mentioning that Superman would begin a fight at that strength level, whereas Hulk would have to grow in strength. So yes, in every scenario, Superman is stronger than Hulk at the beginning of their fight. So Hulk beings every fight... completely outmatched.

When you say infinity, you have to understand what that means: Hulk must lift the universe. I'm not being ridiculous: when you say infinite, then I want you to back it up with proof. Unless you have him lifting something that is relatively comparable to infinity, then maybe I'll start believing the hype. Until then, it's hyperbole, and yes, infinite strength is BS. Not possible unless you are an abstract. And I am not judging that by "real life" standards: I am judging it by comic book standards.

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#12 Edited by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

That's like me saying Superman can't fly because that's impossible in real life. You can't pick and choose which parts of his character you want to accept. That's being biased.

That's not what it's about. I judge his "infinite strength" by comic standards. I call it hyperbole, because nobody (in comics) can lift infinity other than an abstract.

Prove. Me. Wrong. Emphasis on infinity, and everything that word implies.

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#13 Edited by Teerack (6606 posts) - - Show Bio

It really sucks that we haven't seen any World Breaker Hulk feats. I mean last I checked Superman doesn't make the earth start to fall apart for standing on it for three seconds.

#14 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@kgb725: I do still think Superman would win, because of his speed. Not strength though.

#15 Edited by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@kgb725: I do still think Superman would win, because of his speed. Not strength though.

So you think that Hulk will start every fight at "infinite" status, rather than his base level that he usually has to work with?

Interesting.

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#16 Edited by Extremis (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

Ugh you know what really bothers me?! Supes and Hulk fans arguing over who is stronger. It's always some @&$# measuring contest with these fans.

Many of these fans seem to be male and most likely have masculinity issues.

#17 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio
@extremis said:

Ugh you know what really bothers me?! Supes and Hulk fans arguing over who is stronger. It's always some @&$# measuring contest with these fans.

Know what's funny?

I'm not even a Superman fan.

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#18 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62: i dont think that either could dominate the majority of their fights

#19 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: I don't have a scanner. I can't post scans. But read Incredible Hulks 434-435, he destroys a planet in a dark dimension. Also back in the classic days, he destroyed an asteroid twice the mass of the Earth.

#20 Posted by Extremis (3350 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: are you offended? I wasn't even talking about you.

#21 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: I don't have a scanner. I can't post scans. But read Incredible Hulks 434-435, he destroys a planet in a dark dimension. Also back in the classic days, he destroyed an asteroid twice the mass of the Earth.

Still skeptical. It's interesting that you ignored everything I said... about how destroying and lifting are different things.

Also, you threw around the word "infinity" in regards to his strength quite a bit. Back that up, please, with full understanding of what infinity means.

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#22 Posted by Vance Astro (91261 posts) - - Show Bio
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#23 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@extremis said:

@jedixman: are you offended? I wasn't even talking about you.

No. I was just commenting.

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#24 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Now, you are putting words in my mouth. I never once said that Hulk starts at infinity level strength. I said he's shown feats on the planetary level and is strong enough to contend or match Superman. Of course "infinity" is too much, it would mean he has to be able to lift the universe. Which wouldn't happen, but he's been consistently written to have a strength level that grows the more he is hit/harmed/angered.

#25 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Jeez man, I didn't ignore what you said. I was taking time to write my next comment. Chill...

#26 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: Now, you are putting words in my mouth. I never once said that Hulk starts at infinity level strength. I said he's shown feats on the planetary level and is strong enough to contend or match Superman. Of course "infinity" is too much, it would mean he has to be able to lift the universe. Which wouldn't happen, but he's been consistently written to have a strength level that grows the more he is hit/harmed/angered.

Words in your mouth?

@jj62 said:

"Hulk unlimited strength is BS" another one, like it or not. He does.

You said he has unlimited strength. Well?

Also, you said he would beat Superman, but not because of strength. Hulk requires a lot of anger and time to get up to a level where he's comparable to Superman; base Hulk is not comparable to Superman. Prove me wrong (again: BASE Hulk. At the start of a fight). You assume he would actually last long enough to reach that level.

Conclusion: Superman still outclasses him in every department, including strength, because Hulk won't last long enough to get that angry.

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#27 Edited by Wolfrazer (6887 posts) - - Show Bio

I think what JediX is saying is that Hulk's strength isn't infinite. Or at least that is what I am understanding of his posts.

#28 Posted by Jonny_Anonymous (33609 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get why people hate Hulk so much on CV its baffling

#29 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

I think what JediX is saying is that Hulk's strength isn't infinite. Or at least that is what I am understanding of his posts.

Indeed.

The OP is saying that it is, and that people who say his strength isn't infinite are underestimating him. However, the Hulk has no feats to back up his ability to lift infinite mass.

Infinity = x

x = universe (for demonstration purposes)

Hulk's strength =/= x.

Moderator
#30 Posted by frogdog (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

#31 Posted by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

besides speed and flight supes has nothing on hulk

#32 Edited by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Again, I never said he would beat Superman. You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he would beat Superman.

Base Hulk is durable enough to last in a fight with Superman, he wouldn't be quite as strong as him but base Hulk has shown to be roughly Thor level strength, which is enough to contend with Superman. Hulk has also taken blows from the likes of Thanos and survived them, Thanos isn't holding back against him. he is durable enough to last in a fight with Superman, you still seem to have the idea that I think Hulk beats Superman, when I never said that.

#33 Posted by JJ62 (1299 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Infinity means strong enough to lift the universe, of course Hulk can't do that. But when I say unlimited I mean he still hasn't shown a limit and so far in the comics, he keeps getting stronger as the fight goes.

#34 Posted by Saren (25694 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

But read Incredible Hulks 434-435, he destroys a planet in a dark dimension.

That's like 200 issues off.....

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#35 Posted by JediXMan (30702 posts) - - Show Bio

@frogdog:

1. I still want lifting feats. Seems those are rather scarce...

2. There appears to be more going on in that scan. What is the light at the bottom right of page 1? Where are they fighting? What caused the Hulk to get to that level?

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: Again, I never said he would beat Superman. You are putting words in my mouth. I didn't say he would beat Superman.

Base Hulk is durable enough to last in a fight with Superman, he wouldn't be quite as strong as him but base Hulk has shown to be roughly Thor level strength, which is enough to contend with Superman. Hulk has also taken blows from the likes of Thanos and survived them, Thanos isn't holding back against him. he is durable enough to last in a fight with Superman, you still seem to have the idea that I think Hulk beats Superman, when I never said that.

I know you never said that. You said Hulk is superior only in strength. I, however, say that he is not. As it is, I am still skeptical that Hulk is actually stronger than Superman; aside from destruction feats, you haven't given me outright STRENGTH feats (they are vastly different things).

Aside from that, I still maintain that Hulk won't get to that level of angry. Let me put it a simple way:

Superman = 10

Hulk = 1 at start of fight (the numbers are just place holders; I'm not saying Hulk is literally a 1)

Hulk reaches... 7 at the end of the fight. He has increased his strength by a large amount.

7 is not 10. Hulk won't get that angry before the fight is over.

That is the point.

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#36 Posted by Eternal19 (2076 posts) - - Show Bio

hulk has the potential to be stronger than Superman. But, I agree with the OP tha the Hulk hate is getting annoying

#37 Posted by Farkam (4929 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't get why people hate Hulk so much on CV its baffling

I don't see anyone hating on Hulk.

#38 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: they were fighting in the dark dimension and he went to worldbreaker levels

#39 Posted by NorrinBoltagonPrime21 (5947 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: There lies the problem, too many people hear the hyperbole of Hulk's strength and think its all of a sudden a fact.

#40 Edited by Ironshinobi88 (1228 posts) - - Show Bio

Ever since I came here ice noticed how stupid and ridiculous A good portion of Superman and Batman fans are, it's damn near pointless to make a battle thread vs because the virgins ( fanboys) won't bother to think and just yell Superman/Batman all day everyday.

On topic,

I agree I haven't read a whole lot of superman but I definetly agree that He is not going to beat Hulk very often. I have read Hulk a lot and I know his strength is greater than Thor's and when pissed he goes toe to toe with Sentry who I believe is on Supes Level.

Also Black Panther will ways mop the floor with Batman :-)

#41 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman said:

@jj62 said:

@jedixman: How is he overrated? Aside from one particular user who claims Hulk is flash level speedster, who else overrates him??

You.

Or perhaps that's not fair. Maybe Hulk isn't being overrated... but Superman is being underrated. His greatest strength feat is holding a weight comparable to the weight of the Earth itself, consistently, for five days.

What do you have for Hulk? Also, I'm asking for lifting feats, and nothing involving hyperbolic "infinity."

This is a feat of raw strength as well as stamina and endurance.

Somebody should shoot Scott Lobdell into the sun, and then retcon everything he wrote about Superman out of existence.

#42 Posted by Dernman (15159 posts) - - Show Bio

Always funny when fanboys point fingers calling others fanboys.

#43 Posted by SOG7dc (7311 posts) - - Show Bio

@jj62 said:

I have created this thread, due to the fact that there is massive ignorance on CV, concerning the Hulk's strength. People ignore and discredit the lore concerning his character in order to suit their cause.

I am a huge Hulk fan (he's my favorite character) but I am willing to be objective and say that, The Hulk would lose to Superman and Captain Marvel more than he wins. He CAN win, but he'd lose more often than not. Not because Superman and Capt. Marvel are "stronger" because outside of their silver age versions, there is no showings of either of them being physically superior to Hulk. However, they are both nigh Flash level speed. They would win due to their speed not strength.

People on this website are generally ignorant concerning Hulk's physical strength. "Superman is easily and by far stronger than Hulk" Is a statement I've heard, it is not true. Outside of precrisis Superman, there is no clear evidence of him being physically superior,

"Hulk unlimited strength is BS" another one, like it or not. He does. Sure it couldn't work in real life, but this is a fictional universe and you must abide by the laws set up in that fictional universe. Hulk has been written to have an unlimited physical strength level since day one, he's been consistently written that way. That's a huge part of what his character is about, that's not bias, that's not me being a fanboy. That's fact, hes been written that way since his inception and discrediting that is pure ignorance and bias.

This is all coming down to one thing, people on CV ignore the facts about this character and discredit his ability to grow stronger because unlimited anger Is impossible.But That's like me saying, that Superman can't fly because thats impossible in real life.

You go by the laws set up in the fictional universe, and Hulk does have an unlimited strength level and he has since day one. Discredit that all you want, you can't, it's fact.

All that being said, Superman and Captain Marvel would indeed beat him. Because of their speed; however outside of Silver age versions there isn't any showings of DC's strong men being physically superior. There just isn't.

People are just ignorant and discredit Hulk's abilities in order to suit their cause.

let me throw my two cents in. I don't know that much about hulk besides whats in the movies where he's always depicted as an angry dimwit with increasing strength destroying for the sake of destroying. I want to read hulk comics but I just cant get past what the films have put in my head. moreover I agree with you that the hulk hate is annoying. I also agree that he has infinite strength. yes @jedixman infinite. you said to understand what the word infinite means so lets look at the definition:

1. not measurable: without any finite or measurable limits
2. exceedingly great: very great in size, number, degree, or extent
  • He took infinite pains over it.
3. mathematics greater than any assigned value: greater in number, size, or scope than any arbitrarily assigned value
4. mathematics with unlimited spatial extent: having unlimited spatial extent
5. mathematics with indefinitely many elements: having an indefinitely extendable number of terms or elements
6.

mathematics supporting one-to-one relationship: describes a set able to be put into a one-to-one mathematical correspondence with a subset of itself.

how does that not describe hulk? ill grant that he hasn't done it in the past (lifting the universe) but the hulk CAN do it. the reasons why he hasn't? he'd be boring to read after that. who can fight a creature than can lift that amount of weight? nobody that's who. and the other reason why he hasn't done it? he hasn't gotten that angry. and in comics you can get as mad as the writer wants you to be. "the madder hulk gets the stronger he gets" that's a pretty simple concept to follow. if anything that is a testament to characters like superman and thor. that they can go toe to toe with the hulk while he's constantly getting stronger. that speaks to the level of strength those characters have all the time. I present to you that the hul is THE most dangerous h2h combatant in comics. period. you fight him long enough and he'll just get too strong for you. that's why other characters need other abilities. because if its just a strongman competition the hulk stomps....eventually anyway. my point is this. Superman is my favorite character (u can tell by my avatar and the background on my page) and he would beat hulk in a free for all. but just h2h fisticuffs? after a while supes would get put down.Superman needs numerical data to showcase his strength. just like thor, MM, WW etc. the hulk doesn't because "the madder he gets the stronger he gets" =infinite

#44 Edited by frogdog (3252 posts) - - Show Bio

@jedixman: Its part of the wish for Hulk to be with betty forever without hurting her(The main reason why betty had the strength to equal Hulk's strength)

#45 Edited by SOG7dc (7311 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal_smahboi:

I liked lobdells run.....-_-

@norrinboltagonprime21 how is it not though? that's how he's been written since he was created. how is it not fact?

@ironshinobi88 I disagree about black panther and batman but that's another thread for another day lol

#46 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3532 posts) - - Show Bio
@sog7dc said:

@kal_smahboi:

I liked lobdells run.....-_-

Ha, how did I know that you'd be right on top of that one? :)

#47 Posted by SOG7dc (7311 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal_smahboi:

lol you know what? im not even sure if I liked it. the guy before him was just so bad that any alternative would have been welcomed as far as writers for superman go lol

#48 Posted by Kal'smahboi (3532 posts) - - Show Bio

@sog7dc said:

@kal_smahboi:

lol you know what? im not even sure if I liked it. the guy before him was just so bad that any alternative would have been welcomed as far as writers for superman go lol

There be truth in them hills. Better doesn't mean good. Everything he's done has had so much potential, but none of it played out well on paper to me, like if he had handed his ideas to a better scripter, they might have worked. I'm really disappointed that he's taking over Action now, too. Don't let me convince you, though. If you've liked it, you have. Don't let me take that away, I'd kill to have enjoyed Superman's title haha.

#49 Posted by SOG7dc (7311 posts) - - Show Bio

@kal_smahboi:

I wanna see real superman villains now. I want metallo!

#50 Edited by k4tzm4n (45338 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree I haven't read a whole lot of superman but I definetly agree that He is not going to beat Hulk very often.

What? How can you form a non-biased and accurate opinion on a fight between two characters if you only have extended knowledge on one?

Also, the OP never said Hulk takes a majority over Superman. In fact, the opposite happened. The OP said:

All that being said, Superman and Captain Marvel would indeed beat him.

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