Evaluation of Mark Waid's Indestructible Hulk

#1 Edited by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

I've created this thread for one purpose. And what is that purpose? It's simple. Discussing and exploring the pros and cons of Mark Waid's Indestructible Hulk series thus far. Being a longtime Hulk fan, I can tell you that while there is things I enjoy about the title, there's also quite I bit that I find... infuriating.

Don't get me wrong, I've been enjoying the series. Mark Waid can write compelling, entertaining stories. There is no doubt about that. However, I feel it is the right of every fan, myself included, to speak their mind.

Now, let's get this started.

Pros

Bruce Banner

Say what you want, but Mark Waid writes a very interesting and cool Dr. Banner. From creating cool scientific tech to cracking a joke frome time-to-time, Bruce Banner has been really fun to read. In some ways, it feels like this is the next logical step/progression for the character, especially if one were to ignore the events of Fear Itself & Jason Aaron's horrible run and think of this as a direct continuation of Banner's character progression after Greg Pak departed the series.

New Adventures, New Locations

One of the best things that Mark Waid is doing for this series is taking Bruce Banner/The Hulk to different places in the Marvel Universe. It's great to see them explore places they've never been. Undersea Kingdom of Lemuria; Jotunheim; The Negative Zone. So far it sounds like we'll be seeing our Green Goliath travel to some cool locations. I honestly can't wait to see where the journeys will take us readers. I know there's a lot of cool places I would love to see Hulk/Banner explore! Let's hope that Mark Waid will give us what we want!

Storylines

Plenty of action, humor and adventure. That's what we need and have got some pretty decent stuff. I can only hope it escalates and Mr. Waid keeps on giving us bigger and better stories down the road. Who knows, maybe we'll get something truly epic later. I wouldn't mind if Mark Waid would collaborate with the likes of Jeff Parker, Greg Pak, Peter David or Jonathan Hickman for an epic Hulk storyline.

Supporting Cast

From Maria Hill to Banner's assistants, the series has the potential to match the strong and diverse cast we've seen in past popular runs like the Warbound and the Pantheon if given enough time. If Mark Waid plays his cards right, he'll give us some interesting supporting character in his run. He has a lot cut out for him, but I think he can do it.

The Villains

Mad Thinker; Quintronic Man; Attuma and Giant Lemurian Sea Monsters; Frost Giants. Not bad for a start. Here's hoping for some more powerful & different foes to challenge Banner/Hulk in the near future. For those who have seen my blog, you know who I'd like to see Hulk battle across the Marvel Universe.

Decent Hulk Feats

Overcoming the Thinker's Quantom Molder blasts that can melt adamantium; destroying the AIM Quintronic Man robot that can withstand the most extreme temperatures and force/pressures of space; battling Attuma's army, forcing through the Kophin Beast's mystical impentrable hide and defeating Attuma in direct combat miles under the ocean. Nothing really awe-inspiring or truly epic yet in Hulk terms, but that can change if Waid decides to let Hulk really cut loose which I think is needed every so often to appeal to hardcore Hulk fans and new fans alike.

Cons

The Hulk's Personality

It's been six issues since Mark Waid's Indestructible Hulk began. And thus far, Hulk has yet to speak a full sentence. In other words, we've been given a one-dimensional, roaring, smashing, growling, raging nuclear aresenal of a Hulk incarnation. Devoid of any personality, this Hulk incarnation can barely tell friend from foe.

No Green Scar. No Gravage. No Professor/Merged. No Joe Fixit. No Savage. We got a monster that roars and smashes. That's it. No personality, nothing.

All of the work done to evolve Hulk as character, all of the work done by writers such as Peter David & Greg Pak & Bill Mantlo, seemingly flushed down the toilet for Marvel and Mr. Waid's sake.

And Mark Waid's latest interview doesn't inspire confidence that this will change. IMO, it sounds like Hulk will be a big circus ape that is told to or not to smash. Yeah, it doesn't look good. I could be wrong, it's still early... but I'm not gonna hold my breath.

And no internal monolgue from Banner/Hulk? Not even a single issue of Hulk and Banner having a discussion within their mind? That seems like a waste at a chance for some intense drama. Don't you agree?

The Past Continuity of Bruce Banner/The Hulk

One of the major problems I have been having with this series, something that is connected to every con I listed here on this thread. It appears that all of Hulk's rich history, from Mantlo to David to Pak, has been erased/tossed aside/removed. All the major events-- Future Imperfect, Planet Hulk, World War Hulk, Fall of the Hulks/World War Hulks, Heart of the Monster, etc.-- all the characters from the past three decades-- Caiera, Skaar, Rick Jones/A-Bomb, Jennifer Walters/She-Hulk, Betty Banner/Red She-Hulk, etc.-- have been forgotten and seemingly swept away. I believe in progression as much as anyone in regards to a series, but one must never forget the past and what came before.

I can only hope that Mark Waid proves me wrong and does some research into Hulk/Banner's deep, rich comic history. There's a lot to take advantage of in the series. If Mark Waid wishes to remain for the long run, he'll have to do some research into the past, for if one does not know the past how can they expect to move forward?

Hulk/Banner working with and/or for SHIELD

I don't know about you, but in my gut it just doesn't sit right with me. The Hulk and Banner I knew from Greg Pak and Peter David's runs would never, ever work with or for SHIELD. Banner/Hulk don't follow or take orders from anyone. They'll work alongside others, whether it's other heroes or SHIELD for their mutual benefit, but... I don't know. This doesn't feel right.

Why does Banner need SHIELD for funding? What about Amadeus Cho's Olympus Group who have easily funded Banner's research and projects during Pak's run? It seems like Mark Waid and Marvel are ignoring everything that happened to Banner/Hulk!!!

Short fights

The fights thus far have been really short and didn't make an impact in that way one would expect a confrontation with the Hulk should. They've all been pretty quick. Some I can kind of understand, but Hulk smashing and quickly turning back to Banner doesn't sit right with me. Am I the only who feels like this?

Hulk truly earning the title 'Indestructible'

I feel that Mark Waid has yet to truly prove Hulk is indestructible. I mean, Hulk being scorched by lava (which hasn't Hulk since he was extremely weakened at the beginning of Planet Hulk), unable to breathe and withstand great undersea pressure miles beneath the surface (which he's easily shurgged off before in Peter David's Tempest Fugit storyline among many others). Personally, if it were me, I'd be placing Hulk against the most powerful foes and most extreme enviroments in the Marvel Universe every so often. In other words, I'd be freaking proving that Hulk definitely deserves the title of indestructible. Now it's still early, so Mr. Waid can change all that, but from the way Marvel and Mr. Waid are constraining the Hulk and his powerset/abilties, much like they're doing to his personality... I'm just not certain anymore.

What I want to see the most in Indestructible Hulk

Recognition of Hulk/Banner's Past Continuity

Yeah, that's right. I want some recognition of what transpired in the past between Hulk and Banner. That includes events that took place in Greg Pak, Peter David, and Bill Mantlo's tenures on the Jade Giant.

That means I want to see old characters, heroic and villainous. I want to see some mentioning of past events (Planet Hulk, World War Hulk, etc.) that had a great effect on Banner/Hulk. And just as important, I want Hulk to have a personality.

1. Past Continuity of Hulk/Banner

2. Hulk's personality

3. Hulk's powerset/abilties

These and a few other things are what I and many others desire.

#2 Posted by dum529001 (1658 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990:

Yeah!

Where's the inner monologue between Hulk and Banner?

Hulk has always been about him dealing with his inner conflict(aka Hulk, the destructive rage-monster side of his personality) and dealing with outer conflict at the same time as well.

In the end, I think things will turn out okay. I mean, why would Marvel screw over one of their first and best characters?!

The title has just started so things can definitely get better.

#3 Posted by guttridgeb (4832 posts) - - Show Bio

Good post! I agree with most of what you said there :)

#4 Posted by Oscars94 (2625 posts) - - Show Bio

I should pick this series up!

#5 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for all those who commented thus far.

Having read Indestructible Hulk #6 - Gods and Monster a few times, I can say that is is thus far the best so far and one of the most entertaining since Greg Pak left the series. I hope Mark Waid and the team continue dishing out the smashing fun!

#6 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

Thanks for all those who commented thus far.

Having read Indestructible Hulk #6 - Gods and Monster a few times, I can say that is is thus far the best so far and one of the most entertaining since Greg Pak left the series. I hope Mark Waid and the team continue dishing out the smashing fun!

well there are more fun to come, and this was just a start of the arc.

#7 Edited by ThatGuyWithHeadPhones (12419 posts) - - Show Bio

I want Skaar in this,I don't know how he's gonna get in but I want him in this because I loved Bruce and Skaar relationship especially when Bruce was training him.

#8 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

I understand your position on this but as for me i am enjoying Waids take. i've learned a long time ago that not everyone has the same dentition for the hulk, greg pak, bill mantlo and peter david have different takes on the hulk. Waid focus's more on waid, rather than hulk

#9 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: True, but like I said I'm enjoying it thus far. It's superior to anything written by Bruce Jones, Jason Aaron and Jeph Loeb in regards to the Green Goliath. The latest arc, 'Gods and Monster', started out very strong and entertaining. I only hope Waid will focus on Hulk in the future, because we have yet to see this from his POV.

#10 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: True, but like I said I'm enjoying it thus far. It's superior to anything written by Bruce Jones, Jason Aaron and Jeph Loeb in regards to the Green Goliath. The latest arc, 'Gods and Monster', started out very strong and entertaining. I only hope Waid will focus on Hulk in the future, because we have yet to see this from his POV.

There is one thing you must understand man, when it comes to the hulk, people/writers have different interpretations,and as long as they are close in character, it's ok. waid in this case,sees banner as the dominants side, and i reckon it will be like that for a while, and while hulk will probably become more important, banner still will be the star of the show

#11 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: I'm understand that and I'm fine with Banner at the spotlight for now. As long as Hulk does some smashing and speaks a little bit, I'll be satisfied. Greg Pak's Incredible Hulk #606-610 were some of my favorite issues that focused on Banner, while Skaar was there to temporarily fill Hulk's place. Since Mark Waid and Jeff Parker have been sharing scripts, I can only hope that means we'll eventually see Skaar, Red She-Hulk, She-Hulk, A-Bomb, Red Hulk and Lyra show up in the future. After all, don't forget the plot involving the Eternals that has yet to be resolved/seen from Parker's run.

#12 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: I'm understand that and I'm fine with Banner at the spotlight for now. As long as Hulk does some smashing and speaks a little bit, I'll be satisfied. Greg Pak's Incredible Hulk #606-610 were some of my favorite issues that focused on Banner, while Skaar was there to temporarily fill Hulk's place. Since Mark Waid and Jeff Parker have been sharing scripts, I can only hope that means we'll eventually see Skaar, Red She-Hulk, She-Hulk, A-Bomb, Red Hulk and Lyra show up in the future. After all, don't forget the plot involving the Eternals that has yet to be resolved/seen from Parker's run.

\i'm sure the hulk family will come around soon , as waid said, only the first issues were to focus on banner , other than that, there'll be plenty of team ups! we are already getting daredevil/hulk in June!

#13 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: And all I can say to that is... YES!!! We're long overdue for a Hulk & Daredevil team-up! I mean, it's been a really, really long time since these two characters met in the comics.

I'm kinda hoping we'll get some Infinity tie-ins since Waid has stated Gladiator and the Shi'ar Imperial Guard would be making an appearance in Indestructible Hulk. I can only hope that means Izzy Dare/Smasher will be with them. Glad to see a new female hero. What happens when Izzy and Bruce team-up? Hulk and Smasher... well, SMASH!!!

#14 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio
#15 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: When he first came on as writer to Indestructible Hulk, he asked fans via Twitter who they'd like to see Hulk fight/team-up with. He then went on to mention that Gladiator and the Shi'ar Imperial Guard were on his list.

#16 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: When he first came on as writer to Indestructible Hulk, he asked fans via Twitter who they'd like to see Hulk fight/team-up with. He then went on to mention that Gladiator and the Shi'ar Imperial Guard were on his list.

F*CK YES

#17 Edited by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: That's what I said! I hope we get some other team-ups. Examples: Venom, Guardians of the Galaxy, Uncanny Avengers, Hercules. That's my short list. :)

#18 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: That's what I said! I hope we get some other team-ups. Examples: Venom, Guardians of the Galaxy, Uncanny Avengers, Hercules. That's my short list. :)

Hercules and Venom I wouldn't mind, but not so keen on GotG or UA

#19 Posted by GreenScar1990 (635 posts) - - Show Bio

@theacidskull: If Waid is writing, I wouldn't mind GOTG or UA in a team-up. You've got to admit, Hulk/Banner interacting with the likes of Gamora, Drax, Rocket, Groot and Starlord would be very interesting. I'll have to create a thread for villains and team-ups I'd enjoy seeing in Indestructible Hulk.

#20 Posted by Verotikryptonite (326 posts) - - Show Bio

Never been a fan of Waid's work. I don't hate him, but I don't like him either. I want to see the Hulk tested. I want to see planet shattering display's of casual nonchalant power. I want to see the Hulk evolve beyond what's been done with him to this point. If I had to pick a writer I would go with Warren Ellis or Mark Millar. Don't get me wrong but Waid is not going to do anything new or unique with the Hulk. Banner time is what he's given us so far. I love Banner but the professor Hulk proved Banner is not necessary for every single issue. I had enough Banner with the fall of hulk's storyline. He had enough face time while training his son and proving just how smart he is while creating a new tech which overwhelms and takes control of anybody else's tech. It's time for something new. In the ultimate Human storyline by Ellis he gave us a unique take on the Hulk's ability to evolve which made Doomday's power to evolve seem obsolete in comparison. Doomsday has to die to evolve while with the few issues Ellis had to play with the Hulk his powers of evolution became incredibly hard to top. Maybe Waid will prove me wrong, I hope so. But the only thing Waid has ever done that I like was take his talents to DC's garbage fairy tales

#21 Edited by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

Never been a fan of Waid's work. I don't hate him, but I don't like him either. I want to see the Hulk tested. I want to see planet shattering display's of casual nonchalant power. I want to see the Hulk evolve beyond what's been done with him to this point. If I had to pick a writer I would go with Warren Ellis or Mark Millar. Don't get me wrong but Waid is not going to do anything new or unique with the Hulk. Banner time is what he's given us so far. I love Banner but the professor Hulk proved Banner is not necessary for every single issue. I had enough Banner with the fall of hulk's storyline. He had enough face time while training his son and proving just how smart he is while creating a new tech which overwhelms and takes control of anybody else's tech. It's time for something new. In the ultimate Human storyline by Ellis he gave us a unique take on the Hulk's ability to evolve which made Doomday's power to evolve seem obsolete in comparison. Doomsday has to die to evolve while with the few issues Ellis had to play with the Hulk his powers of evolution became incredibly hard to top. Maybe Waid will prove me wrong, I hope so. But the only thing Waid has ever done that I like was take his talents to DC's garbage fairy tales

not anything new? really?

also Mark millar should stay the HELL away from hulk, ellis i would not mind though

#22 Posted by Verotikryptonite (326 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start off by saying I love your enthusiasm in regards to the Hulk, it shows you really care about the character. But Waid has done nothing new with the Hulk as of yet,The only exception is the metallic suit. I need a little more.

#23 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

It's only been 6 issues so far and Waid is focusing more on Banner than the Hulk it's to early to say he has done nothing new for the Hulk when there is plenty of more to come.

#24 Posted by Mega_spidey01 (3078 posts) - - Show Bio

i miss green scar hulk. he was cool when he fought the x-men & black bolt. i hope green scar returns someday.

#25 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18714 posts) - - Show Bio

Let me start off by saying I love your enthusiasm in regards to the Hulk, it shows you really care about the character. But Waid has done nothing new with the Hulk as of yet,The only exception is the metallic suit. I need a little more.

I see that :), but it's only been 6 issues, and and hulk lifted Mjolnir? and banner IS definitely building up to something :), i'm sure new things will come as time passes :), waid is a good writer, so i am excited!

#26 Edited by fiodestromus (1202 posts) - - Show Bio

@greenscar1990: I agree with you my friend i really want him to go against more foes and your right i haven't really heard him talk but i guess there trying to focus on banner and what he can really do i had kind of always wanted to know how smart he really was also.

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