Does the Hulk really have unlimited strength?

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#51 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@anya said:

The Incredible Hulk's power levels adjust to his stress, physical and emotional. However, just because 'the madder he gets, the stronger he gets' does not, logically, entail that he has unlimited strength. There is a feasible limit to the amount of psychic stress a human brain can generate, and even as a personality disordered mutant and a monster I can see no reason for Banner to have an unlimited capacity for rage - try for a second to imagine what that even means, it's just two words - unlimited and rage - which we can understand apart, but really make no sense together.

Even granting that it were possible for him to express 'unlimited rage' there is no reason to think he could possibly reach those levels before his mind or body failed to be able to process it - he would go insane and kill himself with his own power.

That might mean more if

1) We were tlalking about real life and not a comic book

2) There hadnt been plenty of talk of Hulk's limitless inhuman rage

As it is ists not really much of a muchness.

'Silver Age' aka classic Earth One Superman has, most of the time, literally unlimited strength - barring a special problem with using his strength or achieving a grip, he can move anything he can get his hands on at unlimited speeds.

Not really. Silver Age Superman's feats and exploits usually had zero to do with fighting or anything like that. It was an entirely different type of storytelling and the drama back then was often based on some ludicrous premise about Superman using Super-Ventriloquism to make Lois think that a pile of clothes was Clark Kent and thus preserve his secret identity etc. Even at his most super, Superman has tended to have hard limits to his physical strength, however high they might be.

This is far from consistent, but Earth One Superman was so powerful that no amount of comic book hyperbole could supplement Hulk's feats enough to make them even remotely comparable - Kal-El regularly does on-panel feats that make Reed Richards look like a college dropout and Marvel's top-tier in the Silver Age (never mind today's vastly depowered counterparts) unimpressive. The same, in fact, is true of Wonder Woman, even in the late post-Crisis/Pre-52 era.

No it really isnt.

DC just, as a stylistic choice, uses vastly higher strength levels. Marvel always has a much lower level - even ignoring the bogus Strength classes they give out in the HBotMU, etc. the greatest physical strength feats in Marvel tend to be on the Helicarrier-to-Continent level; even the guys 'in a class of their own' who make Hulk look weak - such as Starlin-written Thanos - are planet busters if that.

This is just repeating a well worn myth at this stage.

  1. The Annhiliators rearranged a solar system a few years ago
  2. Gladiator apparently tore apart black holes with his bare hands
  3. Hulk vaporized a planet by collliding with someone else.

etc

In contrast Post-Crisis Superman never moved a planet solo unless he was powered up a la OWAW.

Post Crisis, the universes have been very comparable powerwise. Which is to be expected given that they basically have the same creators going back and forth from one company to the other every couple of years.

As a matter of top-level feats DC just feels freer to allow physics-baffling levels of mechanical strength in their Universe, whereas Marvel prefers to confine their brawls to something that won't result in one-punch-orbital-launches.

Marvel have plenty of them and not from necessarily from top tier strongmen either - Skaar launching Juggernaut across the solar system with one punch for example. Like anything of this type these moments arent really a great way to judge strength - they only happen when its stylistically convenient i.e. one or both of the opponents are flyers or its the end of the fight.

The idea that "DC is just more powerful" just cant be backed up anymore, if it ever could.

#52 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@anya said:

I submitted a really long post that bad-WiFi ate, so I'll summarize here:

Unlimited rage is two words we can understand separately (Actually, 'unlimited' is probably nonsense) but make no sense together. Even if the Hulk's rage were capable of becoming 'infinite' the mental effects would make him insane, like a man on a gallon of PCP, and the strength effects would be suicidal (he would kill himself on accident). Even ignoring that, Pre-Crisis Earth One Superman had automatically unlimited strength and speed, barring special circumstances and inconsistent writing he easily moved galaxies at faster than light speed and could do so forever without tiring. DC - now and then - uses a much higher logorhythmic scale for the top tiers of strength than Marvel does. Marvel likes to confine their ultra-brick battles to city or at most mountain busting levels, so that characters regularly classed as much stronger than the Hulk - like Thanos - are at best planet busters. Even the New 52 Superman, who is a cripple compared to PC Earth One Superman, can move a planet's mass without any significant difficulty in his mid-20s.

DC just tends to like spacey-sci-fi more, and they feel freer to let physical battles ascend to the absolutely physics baffling. Marvel tends to like to keep things 'closer to home', in terms people can more readily understand (Helicarriers, holding up mountains) while DC likes to actually demonstrate (Rather than throw out as hyperbole) unlimited mechanical strength.

Also, I don't understand why people take in-comic statements of a character's potential seriously, given that those making the observations are clearly and frequently proven wrong. Some assclown of a supervillian overestimating his robot gimmick does not prove the Hulk has unlimited power, it only proves he's able to overcome a hyperbolically inflated robot. Objective strength feats and demonstrated failures and limits show you a character's strength, not the barely-informed subjective opinion of some scientist or scanner gadget which has all the reliability of a Star Trek holodeck.

This seems hilariously one-sided of you given that just a few paragraphs earlier you informed us that nu-DCU Superman can easily move a planets mass. How do we know that? Because of some ass-clown of a super scientist with some machine gimmmick they got SUperman to use as a bench press. Not to mention that in the scans i posted The Mad Thinker did not come to that conclusion by twiddling some dials - he mathematically proved it. QED.

In both cases the writer is obviously trying to tell us something. Whether you choose to accept that of course is up to you.

Basically, you can't take statements of a character's power seriously in comics. With rare exceptions, like Jim Shooter's Solar, any statement of their power level will be shown wrong by several orders of magnitude in the next five issues. Hyperbole, more hyperbole, one-shot freak feats and subjective character judgments never pan out in actual story terms.

Sure. And the same thing of course applies to Superman. Silver Age, Golden Age, Bronze Age and nu-DCU.

Most impressive Marvel strength feats tend to be attributable to Silver Age Thor and Wonder Man (popping the adamantium Ultron's head off like a doll's), Hulk has almost never shown to operate anywhere near that except in Planet Hulk and Secret Wars.

I cant be much plainer than to say that this just flat out isnt true. Thor's feats pale in comparison to Hulk's. Wonderman??!!!

Hulk thinks he's the strongest there is, but yet again - why does a rage-maddened childish expression of Banner's feelings of helplessness have an opinion we take seriously? Characters can, and obviously are, frequently wrong about how 'powerful' they and others are. I don't get why people think that someone saying something proves it in a comic anymore than it does in real life.

We could argue all day about feats, and quotes and characters opinions but at the end of that day for most creators Hulk is the strongest one there is. Thats his concept. And thats why in most stories thats what he is going to be written as.

#53 Posted by Bezza (3635 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think the Hulk has unlimited strength, because there are limits to how angry a person can get before they combust and therefore ultimately Hulk will reach a peak. That peak tends to vary depending on the writer and the story. He certainly wouldn't be able to move planets, because he can't fly. I'm happy however to accept that in terms of pure brute strength, he is "the strongest there is..."

#54 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

@bezza said:

I don't think the Hulk has unlimited strength, because there are limits to how angry a person can get before they combust and therefore ultimately Hulk will reach a peak. That peak tends to vary depending on the writer and the story. He certainly wouldn't be able to move planets, because he can't fly. I'm happy however to accept that in terms of pure brute strength, he is "the strongest there is..."

His power increases according to the stress on his body. Anger causes stress. Real anger causes the release of adrenaline, and that causes the blood pressure to rise. Putting a critical level of pressure on Bruce Banner's/Hulk's body makes him stronger.

#55 Posted by DrunkVader (794 posts) - - Show Bio

@jsh92 said:

Well, as the Hulk is not God, it's technically impossible for him to have infinite strength, and anyone who says he does have infinite strength does not properly comprehend the concept of infinity.

the beyonder who IS a god said he had infinite strength capabilities

#56 Posted by Jk-Prodigy (121 posts) - - Show Bio
#57 Posted by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity is not a number. It means "endless". It represents the neverending number line.

You don't have to God to have unlimited power.

God decides all that was, is, and is to come.

Does Hulk control the fate of the whole universe? No he doesn't. But there nothing his body can't withstand. That's all there is to it.

Hulk has the storngest body ever known but that doesn't mean he is in control of his fate and the fate of others.

#58 Posted by Joygirl (19922 posts) - - Show Bio

OF COURSE HE DOES DIDN'T YOU SEE THE ONE TIME WHERE HE PUNCHED SQUIRREL GIRL RIGHT IN HER SQUIRRELS AND IT MADE EVERY MOON OF EVERY PLANET EXPLODE SIMULTANEOUSLY BECAUSE OF HOW HARD IT WAS OBVIOUSLY HIS STRENGTH IS WITHOUT LIMITS BECAUSE OV HIS RAAAAAAAAGE

#59 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

@joygirl said:

OF COURSE HE DOES DIDN'T YOU SEE THE ONE TIME WHERE HE PUNCHED SQUIRREL GIRL RIGHT IN HER SQUIRRELS AND IT MADE EVERY MOON OF EVERY PLANET EXPLODE SIMULTANEOUSLY BECAUSE OF HOW HARD IT WAS OBVIOUSLY HIS STRENGTH IS WITHOUT LIMITS BECAUSE OV HIS RAAAAAAAAGE

i know you're mad at me for making fun of atroc but come on! you're better than this ! :P

#60 Posted by TheAcidSkull (18032 posts) - - Show Bio

and yes, hulk has unlimited power.

#61 Posted by hadrian29 (18 posts) - - Show Bio

Infinity is not a number. It means "endless". It represents the neverending number line.

You don't have to God to have unlimited power.

God decides all that was, is, and is to come.

Does Hulk control the fate of the whole universe? No he doesn't. But there nothing his body can't withstand. That's all there is to it.

Hulk has the storngest body ever known but that doesn't mean he is in control of his fate and the fate of others.

LOL! What?! Boy are you reaching. LOL!

#62 Posted by teddy_the_god_killer (298 posts) - - Show Bio

@facebreakerhulk:

I am inclined to agree. There is always a danger of making a character too powerful and killing of any potential. When you look at Wolverine he is nigh on immortal so there really is not much exciting you can do with him. And when one looks at the ultimate incarnation of Superman you basically have a useless character with nobody to battle...he has become god-like. I like the Hulk at a lower power and having the occasional struggle, it makes it far more open to new possibilities.

Oh and as a side note with regards to others' understanding of infinity...there are many kinds of infinity. 99.9999....% can go on forever without reaching 100%. Each decimal place it a fraction closer but never arrives. So the Hulk could be infinite and never reach 100%. A writer can screw with physics but they cannot touch basic maths.

#63 Edited by kgb725 (6440 posts) - - Show Bio
#64 Edited by superhulksmash (47 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't know if everyone knows this but hulk can get stronger by pain or even just exerting himself. For example if he tried to lift something too heavy his struggling would make his strength increase. So it is not just anger that amps him. He could reach levels where SA supes would be like a microbe.

#65 Posted by worldbreakerhulk (239 posts) - - Show Bio

@superhulksmash: you gotta point there. it was necessary to mention the other strength increasing factors here.

#67 Edited by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@anya said:

I submitted a really long post that bad-WiFi ate, so I'll summarize here:

Unlimited rage is two words we can understand separately (Actually, 'unlimited' is probably nonsense) but make no sense together. Even if the Hulk's rage were capable of becoming 'infinite' the mental effects would make him insane, like a man on a gallon of PCP, and the strength effects would be suicidal (he would kill himself on accident). Even ignoring that, Pre-Crisis Earth One Superman had automatically unlimited strength and speed, barring special circumstances and inconsistent writing he easily moved galaxies at faster than light speed and could do so forever without tiring. DC - now and then - uses a much higher logorhythmic scale for the top tiers of strength than Marvel does. Marvel likes to confine their ultra-brick battles to city or at most mountain busting levels, so that characters regularly classed as much stronger than the Hulk - like Thanos - are at best planet busters. Even the New 52 Superman, who is a cripple compared to PC Earth One Superman, can move a planet's mass without any significant difficulty in his mid-20s.

DC just tends to like spacey-sci-fi more, and they feel freer to let physical battles ascend to the absolutely physics baffling. Marvel tends to like to keep things 'closer to home', in terms people can more readily understand (Helicarriers, holding up mountains) while DC likes to actually demonstrate (Rather than throw out as hyperbole) unlimited mechanical strength.

Also, I don't understand why people take in-comic statements of a character's potential seriously, given that those making the observations are clearly and frequently proven wrong. Some assclown of a supervillian overestimating his robot gimmick does not prove the Hulk has unlimited power, it only proves he's able to overcome a hyperbolically inflated robot. Objective strength feats and demonstrated failures and limits show you a character's strength, not the barely-informed subjective opinion of some scientist or scanner gadget which has all the reliability of a Star Trek holodeck.

Basically, you can't take statements of a character's power seriously in comics. With rare exceptions, like Jim Shooter's Solar, any statement of their power level will be shown wrong by several orders of magnitude in the next five issues. Hyperbole, more hyperbole, one-shot freak feats and subjective character judgments never pan out in actual story terms.

Most impressive Marvel strength feats tend to be attributable to Silver Age Thor and Wonder Man (popping the adamantium Ultron's head off like a doll's), Hulk has almost never shown to operate anywhere near that except in Planet Hulk and Secret Wars. Hulk thinks he's the strongest there is, but yet again - why does a rage-maddened childish expression of Banner's feelings of helplessness have an opinion we take seriously? Characters can, and obviously are, frequently wrong about how 'powerful' they and others are. I don't get why people think that someone saying something proves it in a comic anymore than it does in real life.

Well how about if Marvel itself states that his anger and strength are unlimited? Then you would look like someone who does not really know what he's talking about. Get ready to look like that....

By the way that is the Collecter's (A Celestial) Strongest Energy Shield so that alone is a pretty good feat just wanted to show you what's good.

#68 Edited by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dannyjonesy: Hyperbole like when they say Odin is all powerful or old scans saying he's omnipotent.

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#70 Edited by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@dannyjonesy: Hyperbole like when they say Odin is all powerful or old scans saying he's omnipotent.

But when hyperbole says "Thor swung his hammer at the speed of light" or "Silver Surfer travelling the cosmos at the speed of light" then everybody quotes those feats like they are the Torah. I can dig these issues up if you don't believe me and show you the scans.

#71 Posted by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@dannyjonesy: Hyperbole like when they say Odin is all powerful or old scans saying he's omnipotent.

But when hyperbole says "Thor swung his hammer at the speed of light" or "Silver Surfer travelling the cosmos at the speed of light" then everybody quotes those feats like they are the Torah. I can dig these issues up if you don't believe me and show you the scans.

Just because they say it's not doesn't mean it is or isn't. You have to learn to tell the difference.

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#72 Posted by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman:

regardless hyperbole is where Thor moving his hammer at the speed of light stems from and that feat gets brought up way too much on here if hyperbole does not mean anything lol

#73 Edited by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dannyjonesy said:

@dernman:

regardless hyperbole is where Thor moving his hammer at the speed of light stems from and that feat gets brought up way too much on here if hyperbole does not mean anything lol

You're still not getting the point. It doesn't matter if Thor's feet is or isn't hyperbole. This isn't about Thor it's about Hulk. It doesn't matter if say for arguments sake the Thor's feet is hyperbole and people use it as legit. It just means they are wrong. It doesn't change anything about with Hulk's infinite whatever being hyperbole or not.

You might not like that it's hyperbole and may not want it to mean something but it is and it does.

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#74 Posted by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio

Why is this hyperbole? On numerous other occasions, Hulk is stated to have unlimited strength or no finite element by cosmic level beings as well as gods.....this just reinforces what has been stated numerous times in the Marvel Universe already. But I can have my opinion and you can have yours. That's what freedom of speech is....

#75 Edited by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dannyjonesy:

Because he doesn't have rage isn't unlimited. He isn't the conceptual personification of rage there is a limit. Other hyperboles also get used multiple times by characters. Like Sentry's powered by a million exploding suns or Odin being all knowing or all powerful, or Captain Marvel's the mightiest mortal. You can have your opinion and there is free speech but it doesn't mean you're right.

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#76 Edited by Bobsjonjon (228 posts) - - Show Bio

Hulk smash!

#77 Posted by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio
@dernman said:

@dannyjonesy:

Because he doesn't have rage isn't unlimited. He isn't the conceptual personification of rage there is a limit. Other hyperboles also get used multiple times by characters. Like Sentry's powered by a million exploding suns or Odin being all knowing or all powerful, or Captain Marvel's the mightiest mortal. You can have your opinion and there is free speech but it doesn't mean you're right.

So because you say that Hulk doesn't have unlimited rage that's how it is lol? But if I state that Marvel as well as a celestial being stated that Hulk's rage/strength is infinite/unlimited that's wrong. If anything Marvel history leans towards that Hulk does have unlimited rage...I'm sure after World War Hulk every reader thought that was the limit to Hulk's anger. I mean could anyone get more angry then if someone banished you to a gladiator planet to fight for your life and then murdered your wife and blew up the planet they banished you to? That literally seems like the most angry anyone could ever get, but somehow Hulk managed to increase his rage even more and transformed into World Breaker Hulk. If there was a limit to Hulk's rage don't you think it would have been reached when his wife was murdered...but there isn't a limit..... Hulk can always reach an angrier level that's why World Breaker Hulk was even possible after War World Hulk. So in closing, Marvel, a celestial being, and History say that Hulk can ALWAYS be made angrier so I'm pretty sure most readers if not all would be inclined to believe them over you lol.

#78 Edited by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dannyjonesy: So because you say that Hulk doesn't have unlimited rage that's how it is lol?

The theme of how his strength works is the madder he gets the stronger he gets. Geez.

But if I state that Marvel as well as a celestial being stated that Hulk's rage/strength is infinite/unlimited that's wrong.

You wouldn't be wrong that they stated that. You would be wrong they were not using hyperbole.

If anything Marvel history leans towards that Hulk does have unlimited rage...

No no it doesn't. All it does is show Marvel has a history with continuous themes many of which are hyperbole,

.I'm sure after World War Hulk every reader thought that was the limit to Hulk's anger.

No no in any way. That doesn't even come close to unlimited. You saying that makes me wonder if you understand what unlimited and infinite truly is.

I mean could anyone get more angry then if someone banished you to a gladiator planet to fight for your life and then murdered your wife and blew up the planet they banished you to?

yes yes very good reasons to rage and totally meaningless though. All that is is adding more fuel to the fire to keep yet remaining at a limit.

.That literally seems like the most angry anyone could ever get, but somehow Hulk managed to increase his rage even more and transformed into World Breaker Hulk

Actually I could think of other things that would make me madder than that. So it literally isn't the most someone could get mad and obviously it wasn't for him either because as you say his rage increased.

If there was a limit to Hulk's rage don't you think it would have been reached when his wife was murdered

No no I don't. I could think of things that would make me rage even more especially when you don't know how strong his love was for his wife.

but there isn't a limit

Exactly

Hulk can always reach an angrier level that's why World Breaker Hulk was even possible after War World Hulk.

It was possible because he hadn't reached his limit yet.

So in closing, Marvel, a celestial being, and History

In closing Marvel, the writers have a history of using hyperbole

say that Hulk can ALWAYS be made angrier

which certain fans fail to recognize hyperbole when they see it.

so I'm pretty sure most readers if not all would be inclined to believe them over you lol.

They don't have to believe them over me because it's not a them over me situation. Pretty sure most people would agree that it's a situation of me against you. You believing hyperbole as fact and me trying to tell you it isn't. :p

The majority of the ones who don't see it as hyperbole are the ones who just don't want it to be hyperbole.

Your hysterical I actually laugh.

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#79 Posted by dannyjonesy (17 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman:

@dernman said:

@dannyjonesy: So because you say that Hulk doesn't have unlimited rage that's how it is lol?

The theme of how his strength works is the madder he gets the stronger he gets. Geez.

But if I state that Marvel as well as a celestial being stated that Hulk's rage/strength is infinite/unlimited that's wrong.

You wouldn't be wrong that they stated that. You would be wrong they were not using hyperbole.

If anything Marvel history leans towards that Hulk does have unlimited rage...

No no it doesn't. All it does is show Marvel has a history with continuous themes many of which are hyperbole,

.I'm sure after World War Hulk every reader thought that was the limit to Hulk's anger.

No no in any way. That doesn't even come close to unlimited. You saying that makes me wonder if you understand what unlimited and infinite truly is.

I mean could anyone get more angry then if someone banished you to a gladiator planet to fight for your life and then murdered your wife and blew up the planet they banished you to?

yes yes very good reasons to rage and totally meaningless though. All that is is adding more fuel to the fire to keep yet remaining at a limit.

.That literally seems like the most angry anyone could ever get, but somehow Hulk managed to increase his rage even more and transformed into World Breaker Hulk

Actually I could think of other things that would make me madder than that. So it literally isn't the most someone could get mad and obviously it wasn't for him either because as you say his rage increased.

If there was a limit to Hulk's rage don't you think it would have been reached when his wife was murdered

No no I don't. I could think of things that would make me rage even more especially when you don't know how strong his love was for his wife.

but there isn't a limit

Exactly

Hulk can always reach an angrier level that's why World Breaker Hulk was even possible after War World Hulk.

It was possible because he hadn't reached his limit yet.

So in closing, Marvel, a celestial being, and History

In closing Marvel, the writers have a history of using hyperbole

say that Hulk can ALWAYS be made angrier

which certain fans fail to recognize hyperbole when they see it.

so I'm pretty sure most readers if not all would be inclined to believe them over you lol.

They don't have to believe them over me because it's not a them over me situation. Pretty sure most people would agree that it's a situation of me against you. You believing hyperbole as fact and me trying to tell you it isn't. :p

The majority of the ones who don't see it as hyperbole are the ones who just don't want it to be hyperbole.

Your hysterical I actually laugh.

So a Celestial stating that Hulk has infinite power is hyperbole now....okay then maybe in your world. Second, since Hulk always finds a way to increase his rage since 1962, it's more likely that Hulk has no limit to his rage, then your theory that Hulk just hasn't reached the limit of his rage even though Hulk has probably endured more suffering, hardships and betrayals then probably any other hero in the MU since his creation. Third, if you can't state your point without lowering yourself to hurling insults such as "delusional" then maybe you should stay off forums until you mature a bit. Lastly, it's you're hysterical not "your hysterical". Try growing up.

#80 Edited by youmessinwithme (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

in comic books people lift things that are incaculably heavy or that have infintie weight all the time, Yes he could probably get so strong that he could lift equivelent weight to a planet(he couldn't move a planet cause he can't fly) But no it's not really infinite, the only character in comics who's strength is infinite is more or less TOAA(god) and the Hulk would not stalemate him in an arm wrestling match. Nor is their really such thing as "infinite" anger, he would eventually lose his mind if he was that angry all the time imo....

#81 Posted by youmessinwithme (1188 posts) - - Show Bio

Marvel have plenty of them and not from necessarily from top tier strongmen either - Skaar launching Juggernaut across the solar system with one punch for example. Like anything of this type these moments arent really a great way to judge strength - they only happen when its stylistically convenient i.e. one or both of the opponents are flyers or its the end of the fight.

The idea that "DC is just more powerful" just cant be backed up anymore, if it ever could.

Although I agree with you 100% on the fact that DC's characters aren't more powerful overall, Skaar did not punchh Juggernaut across the Solar system. He punched him into orbit (a deteriorating orbit), and the Juggernaut fell back to earth some time later (a couple months in publishing but the time scale marvel uses is a little different.)

But granted I don't think any of DC's power houses have thrown or punch anything out of the Solar system since the Silver age(not saying that they neccesarily couldn't but I haven't seen any of them), however Thor at one point throws an alien out of the Solar system. (however that is also in a very old comic)

#82 Posted by ImagineMan16 (466 posts) - - Show Bio

It makes no sense whatsoever for his strength OR anger to have no limit, but I understand that we can't always apply real world logic to comics, so I just try to take Hulk's power level at face value and run with it

#83 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild said:

Marvel have plenty of them and not from necessarily from top tier strongmen either - Skaar launching Juggernaut across the solar system with one punch for example. Like anything of this type these moments arent really a great way to judge strength - they only happen when its stylistically convenient i.e. one or both of the opponents are flyers or its the end of the fight.

The idea that "DC is just more powerful" just cant be backed up anymore, if it ever could.

Although I agree with you 100% on the fact that DC's characters aren't more powerful overall, Skaar did not punchh Juggernaut across the Solar system. He punched him into orbit (a deteriorating orbit), and the Juggernaut fell back to earth some time later (a couple months in publishing but the time scale marvel uses is a little different.)

From memory the artwork shows him going past Jupiter. At any rate it was clearly nowhere near Earth.

#84 Posted by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dannyjonesy: So a Celestial stating that Hulk has infinite power is hyperbole now

Not just now. It was always hyperbole. What you think Celestials can't use hyperbole?

....okay then maybe in your world.

No in reality.

Second, since Hulk always finds a way to increase his rage since 1962, it's more likely that Hulk has no limit to his rage,

Right because other characters haven't been getting power boosts since the 60's.......I guess everybody has unlimited powers then.

then your theory that Hulk just hasn't reached the limit of his rage even though Hulk has probably endured more suffering, hardships and betrayals then probably any other hero in the MU since his creation.

You're joking right? Suffered the more than anyone? geez man get a grip You must have a limited knowledge of the MU if you think that. Hell there is a whole Mutant race that would disagree with you.

Third, if you can't state your point without lowering yourself to hurling insults such as "delusional" then maybe you should stay off forums until you mature a bit.

Excuse me but when did I use delusional? If you're going to accuse me of something then maybe it's something I should have said. Second I find it funny how you would call my behavior immature. You really should looking at your posts in an objective manner. There is a certain word that floats around for this these boards that I could use.

Lastly, it's you're hysterical not "your hysterical". Try growing up.

Ha ha ha. I meant what I said. A both in the sense you're a getting so bothered by your hero not having "unlimited power", and B "you're hysterical" is a commonly used phrase to mean you're funny to signify that the humor is coming from you and not the situation. Maybe you should take a look at your past post before you correct anyone on their grammar. Further made funny when you missed the actual mistake when I made the typo your instead of you're.

Epic Fail

Really dude keep going I could use another laugh.

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#85 Posted by HellionVulcan (3768 posts) - - Show Bio

Honestly No but marvel's writers like to use that as a way for him to seem like the strongest character ever when there is characters who have strength feats way out of Hulk's range .If any character should have infinite strength it should be Juggernaut since his power source dwarfs Hulks rage potential .

#86 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@dannyjonesy: So because you say that Hulk doesn't have unlimited rage that's how it is lol?

The theme of how his strength works is the madder he gets the stronger he gets. Geez.

But if I state that Marvel as well as a celestial being stated that Hulk's rage/strength is infinite/unlimited that's wrong.

You wouldn't be wrong that they stated that. You would be wrong they were not using hyperbole.

If anything Marvel history leans towards that Hulk does have unlimited rage...

No no it doesn't. All it does is show Marvel has a history with continuous themes many of which are hyperbole,

.I'm sure after World War Hulk every reader thought that was the limit to Hulk's anger.

No no in any way. That doesn't even come close to unlimited. You saying that makes me wonder if you understand what unlimited and infinite truly is.

I mean could anyone get more angry then if someone banished you to a gladiator planet to fight for your life and then murdered your wife and blew up the planet they banished you to?

yes yes very good reasons to rage and totally meaningless though. All that is is adding more fuel to the fire to keep yet remaining at a limit.

.That literally seems like the most angry anyone could ever get, but somehow Hulk managed to increase his rage even more and transformed into World Breaker Hulk

Actually I could think of other things that would make me madder than that. So it literally isn't the most someone could get mad and obviously it wasn't for him either because as you say his rage increased.

If there was a limit to Hulk's rage don't you think it would have been reached when his wife was murdered

No no I don't. I could think of things that would make me rage even more especially when you don't know how strong his love was for his wife.

but there isn't a limit

Exactly

Hulk can always reach an angrier level that's why World Breaker Hulk was even possible after War World Hulk.

It was possible because he hadn't reached his limit yet.

So in closing, Marvel, a celestial being, and History

In closing Marvel, the writers have a history of using hyperbole

say that Hulk can ALWAYS be made angrier

which certain fans fail to recognize hyperbole when they see it.

so I'm pretty sure most readers if not all would be inclined to believe them over you lol.

They don't have to believe them over me because it's not a them over me situation. Pretty sure most people would agree that it's a situation of me against you. You believing hyperbole as fact and me trying to tell you it isn't. :p

The majority of the ones who don't see it as hyperbole are the ones who just don't want it to be hyperbole.

Your hysterical I actually laugh.

You are arguing that its hyperbole when the simple fact is we dont know whether a lot of these sorts of things are intended as hyperbole or not. In the real world its obvious when someone says "I could eat a horse" that they dont literally mean that but in comics when a character like Gladiator is said to have crushed black holes in his hands its not at all obvious whether that such a thing is not meant to be taken literally.

In the case of the Hulk i have heard several creators state that they felt that the Hulk had limitless strength - Stan Lee, JR Jr, Peter David who wrote the book for 12 years...While undoubtedly there are a lot of creators who felt otherwise that tends to indicate to me that the idea that Hulk can get madder and stronger without limit is not something that is obviously untrue.

#87 Posted by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild: Writers say alot of meaningless things to play up a character and to get into the spirit of whimsy but hey if buying into something that is obviously hyperbole makes you feel better go right ahead.

Online
#88 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@fifthchild: Writers say alot of meaningless things to play up a character and to get into the spirit of whimsy but hey if buying into something that is obviously hyperbole makes you feel better go right ahead.

I'm not talking about instances where creators have tried to play up the Hulk - the JR Jr instance for example was just him expressing what he found appealing about the character - that he could get stronger and stronger with no limit on his strength:

http://www.ifc.com/fix/2013/03/john-romita-jr-thinks-world-war-hulk-would-make-a-great-hulk-movie

IFC: Do you think that it should be, because I know a lot of people have been talking about wanting to see that or “Planet Hulk”?

JRJR: Personally, yeah I do. I was thinking that when I did the “World War Hulk” miniseries and I think that character, because of the strengths of the powers, I think it would be an amazing story. And it’s simple: the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, with no limits. That is a very powerful statement by itself.

But hey, if this kind of talk about a fictional character bothers you for whatever reason, go right ahead and ignore it. Its obviously just hyperbole.

#89 Posted by GreenScar1990 (568 posts) - - Show Bio

We're still on this topic?!

Hulk is the Strongest One There is!

Deal with it!

'Nuff said. :)

#90 Edited by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@fifthchild:

I'm not talking about instances where creators have tried to play up the Hulk - the JR Jr instance for example was just him expressing what he found appealing about the character - that he could get stronger and stronger with no limit on his strength:

http://www.ifc.com/fix/2013/03/john-romita-jr-thinks-world-war-hulk-would-make-a-great-hulk-movie

Seems playing hyperbole up to me. He's having an interview. They're conscious of what they say and like to slip in key words. let me try to explain it this way. Say you were talking and making comparison between the second and first films. The first one was played more towards the grander styles Hulk that he has become as opposed to the more limited version in the second film. You can say the first is has no limits because it seems that easy compared to the first and yet he still could logically have limits. It's just a way to describe the type of theme without being literal.

But hey, if this kind of talk about a fictional character bothers you for whatever reason, go right ahead and ignore it. Its obviously just hyperbole.

I don't have to ignore anything because it's not what you're portraying it to be. It;s good you took my earlier advice about believing what you want makes yourself feel better and get you through the day.. Fans must have their character with their lordly power as a trophy. We all how they rage when they don't get that.

Edit: Oops I just realized a mistake. If I continue keep shine the like on character hyperbole it might burst those fans bubble. No telling what they will do if that happens.

So from now on it's all you betcha, you're darn tootin or other placating phrases the fans can feel better.

UNLIMITED STRENGTH HULK SMASH ROAR!!!!

Online
#91 Posted by Fifthchild (603 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@fifthchild:

I'm not talking about instances where creators have tried to play up the Hulk - the JR Jr instance for example was just him expressing what he found appealing about the character - that he could get stronger and stronger with no limit on his strength:

http://www.ifc.com/fix/2013/03/john-romita-jr-thinks-world-war-hulk-would-make-a-great-hulk-movie

Seems playing hyperbole up to me. He's having an interview. They're conscious of what they say and like to slip in key words.

I think you are reaching here. This is an interview over 5 years after WWH - the last Hulk book JR Jr ever had to promote. Hes a pretty straight up no bullshit person also - the idea that he is trying to fluff up Hulk fans egos seems little paranoid.

let me try to explain it this way. Say you were talking and making comparison between the second and first films. The first one was played more towards the grander styles Hulk that he has become as opposed to the more limited version in the second film. You can say the first is has no limits because it seems that easy compared to the first and yet he still could logically have limits. It's just a way to describe the type of theme without being literal.

I'm a little unclear as to what you are talking about here to be honest. You are saying that Hulk was more powerful in the Ang Lee film than in the Norton/Leterrier film? I would agree with that. You are saying that you could argue that he had no limits in the first movie and yet he might have had limits also? Sure.

In fact the Ang Lee film explicitly addresses the possibility that Hulk might have no limit to how powerful to he can get when Betty discusses how she is worried that they designed the nanomeds to adapt to physical injury whereas in Bruces case they seemed to be reacting to emotional trauma - the difference being that physical trauma is finite whereas emotional trauma is potentially endless. Thats a pretty clear nod to the whole "limitless power" thing right there and, whether it was actually true of the movie Hulk or not, another sign IMO that its not just "crazy Hulk fans" who have noticed this about the character.

But hey, if this kind of talk about a fictional character bothers you for whatever reason, go right ahead and ignore it. Its obviously just hyperbole.

I don't have to ignore anything because it's not what you're portraying it to be.

You havent given any decent reason to believe it isnt exactly as it looks. Again to quote JR Jr "it’s simple: the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, with no limits."

It;s good you took my earlier advice about believing what you want makes yourself feel better and get you through the day.. Fans must have their character with their lordly power as a trophy. We all how they rage when they don't get that.

Edit: Oops I just realized a mistake. If I continue keep shine the like on character hyperbole it might burst those fans bubble. No telling what they will do if that happens.

So from now on it's all you betcha, you're darn tootin or other placating phrases the fans can feel better.

UNLIMITED STRENGTH HULK SMASH ROAR!!!!

Look you were pretty smug and condescending to the other poster. I'm a fairly thick skinned person in terms of what people say about the character (which helps given how downplayed he is on this site) so i dont mind people questioning these ideas or disagreeing or whatever. But if you are going to treat other people as idiots for picking up something that has obviously also been noted by creators from the industry and even the films then I dont feel too bad about pointing that out. And if you dont have any comeback except more attempts at insults then we are probably done.

#93 Posted by Dernman (15074 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@fifthchild:

I'm not talking about instances where creators have tried to play up the Hulk - the JR Jr instance for example was just him expressing what he found appealing about the character - that he could get stronger and stronger with no limit on his strength:

http://www.ifc.com/fix/2013/03/john-romita-jr-thinks-world-war-hulk-would-make-a-great-hulk-movie

Seems playing hyperbole up to me. He's having an interview. They're conscious of what they say and like to slip in key words.

I think you are reaching here. This is an interview over 5 years after WWH - the last Hulk book JR Jr ever had to promote. Hes a pretty straight up no bullshit person also - the idea that he is trying to fluff up Hulk fans egos seems little paranoid.

let me try to explain it this way. Say you were talking and making comparison between the second and first films. The first one was played more towards the grander styles Hulk that he has become as opposed to the more limited version in the second film. You can say the first is has no limits because it seems that easy compared to the first and yet he still could logically have limits. It's just a way to describe the type of theme without being literal.

I'm a little unclear as to what you are talking about here to be honest. You are saying that Hulk was more powerful in the Ang Lee film than in the Norton/Leterrier film? I would agree with that. You are saying that you could argue that he had no limits in the first movie and yet he might have had limits also? Sure.

In fact the Ang Lee film explicitly addresses the possibility that Hulk might have no limit to how powerful to he can get when Betty discusses how she is worried that they designed the nanomeds to adapt to physical injury whereas in Bruces case they seemed to be reacting to emotional trauma - the difference being that physical trauma is finite whereas emotional trauma is potentially endless. Thats a pretty clear nod to the whole "limitless power" thing right there and, whether it was actually true of the movie Hulk or not, another sign IMO that its not just "crazy Hulk fans" who have noticed this about the character.

But hey, if this kind of talk about a fictional character bothers you for whatever reason, go right ahead and ignore it. Its obviously just hyperbole.

I don't have to ignore anything because it's not what you're portraying it to be.

You havent given any decent reason to believe it isnt exactly as it looks. Again to quote JR Jr "it’s simple: the angrier he gets, the stronger he gets, with no limits."

It;s good you took my earlier advice about believing what you want makes yourself feel better and get you through the day.. Fans must have their character with their lordly power as a trophy. We all how they rage when they don't get that.

Edit: Oops I just realized a mistake. If I continue keep shine the like on character hyperbole it might burst those fans bubble. No telling what they will do if that happens.

So from now on it's all you betcha, you're darn tootin or other placating phrases the fans can feel better.

UNLIMITED STRENGTH HULK SMASH ROAR!!!!

Look you were pretty smug and condescending to the other poster. I'm a fairly thick skinned person in terms of what people say about the character (which helps given how downplayed he is on this site) so i dont mind people questioning these ideas or disagreeing or whatever. But if you are going to treat other people as idiots for picking up something that has obviously also been noted by creators from the industry and even the films then I dont feel too bad about pointing that out. And if you dont have any comeback except more attempts at insults then we are probably done.

you betcha

there there

UNLIMITED STRENGTH HULK SMASH ROAR!!!!

Online
#95 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman: Try Prozac, perhaps it may help.

Not as much as a reality check could help certain others.

Maybe double the dose for you, just in case.

#97 Edited by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman: Try Prozac, perhaps it may help.

Not as much as a reality check could help certain others.

Maybe double the dose for you, just in case.

Sorry but you use them all up for yourself and clearly they are not working. oh well I guess there is no helping you.

I think it's time you switched to the triple dose. This time i am sure it will help.

#98 Edited by dum529001 (1624 posts) - - Show Bio

So everything we see is "hyperbole" and "wild speculation"?

So whenever someone reads a story, everything should be taken as hyperbole?

If that's the case, there's no point in reading or even discussing what we read because we can never be sure that anything is part of the "real" story. How can we be sure of anything? Is anything concrete?

Since everthing is a hyperbole, there should be no story to think about or talk about since everything said is "not really apart of the story" and just some "wild speculation" by a bunch of nonsensical fanboys.

Seriously though, if that's what some people really think, then why are you here posting stuff on a website about comicbooks?

#100 Posted by RaynorJ (1498 posts) - - Show Bio

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman said:

@raynorj said:

@dernman: Try Prozac, perhaps it may help.

Not as much as a reality check could help certain others.

Maybe double the dose for you, just in case.

Sorry but you use them all up for yourself and clearly they are not working. oh well I guess there is no helping you.

I think it's time you switched to the triple dose. This time i am sure it will help.

I know it's time for you to stop begging for doses to take because there isn't a amount in the universe that could help you.

I guess on to quadruple than. Bare with me here i am sure this time it's gonna work man, for real. Have some faith.

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