I always see some shady "well he was holding back" in a lot of debates and was thinking this logic could easily apply for Hulk also since Hulk has a lot more morals than Maestro. Maestro as we all know it survived and even killed a lot of Marvel's heroes in alternate futures such as future imperfect and recently in spider-man 2099 where it is said he defeated those that had their relics in his new treasure room. Hulk has never really killed meaning "morals on" compared to Maestro with no morals. Bruce and Hulk don't want to become Maestro that's a fact so that translates to holding back on his maximum potential. Yah it is a bit shady but i've seen worst "well he was holding back" on comicvine so just food for thought ;)

Yes, I believe that has always been the case. I even believe that the World-Breaker is just scratching the surface of Hulk's power potential. I mean, if the omnipotent Beyonder stated Hulk's power was infinite, what does that tell you? It's always been theorized that Hulk's power comes from an multiversal/ominversal source, thus why he's shown to have no true limit in strength and power limit.

Could the Maestro be the next step in this power evolution? It could very well be the case. The relics/trophies of those heroes & villains in his chambers definitely proves this. Killing the likes of Thor, Dr. Doom, the Silver Surfer and the like usually takes someone of vast power & intelligence.

And did you happen to notice that the synopsis of Future Imperfect #1 mentions Odin as a potential ally against the Maestro?

More proof on how big a threat Maestro is, especially when you seek the aid and alliance of one of the most powerful Sky-Fathers known to have ever existed.

The Banner personality does restrict Hulks strength in order to direct the destruction in a way that doesn't hurt innocents. From that point of view he has been holding back on some level at least. Though, with his powers canonically fluctuating its hard to say when he is holding back beyond that even without considering comics usual inconsistency. There is no known limit how much his anger/strength can increase, but Hulk might just as well have used all the strength he possessed at a specific time at that specific time.

@greenscar1990: The Meastro vs Odin would be one epic fight ! Like I said on a few other posts, I think Maestro might just be Marvel's new flagship villain !!

If they do fight, I hope it will look like the fight with Sentry. I wouldn't even mind having an issue dedicated to the fight only. I think that is what is missing in Hulk comics nowadays.

@Stahlflamme Yah his power levels are not always the same, I think it is ok in a way that Hulk's strength ajusts to his oponent to overtake him unless he's really pissed off like in World War Hulk where he overpowered most oponents and even Sentry which is still one of the most epic fights, reminding me closely to a DragonBall manga where a lot of the panels were dedidcated to the fight and you cpuld actually feel the power both of them were outputing. I would like to see more of those kind of fights in Hulk comic books because lately it has been flat. The little cocky jokes during fights don't make me laugh that much. Just give me good battles.

Yeah i want good battles. Only time I dont mind him being cocky if he's Maestro. Doc Green proved to be shit so i dont want him opening his mouth again. If Maestro beats Odin oh this form will be on top for a while i see all the hate. I will be laughing my ass off.

Hulk always holds back becuase of banner, it's mentioned quite allot actually.

I just wanted to bring it to the table since I always see people trying to prove their character is holding back in debates, but Hulk/Banner actually is ALWAYS basically holding back since he doesn't let go to WBH or Maestro levels.

Bruce Banner is not that far off from being as smart as Tony and Reed Richards. Imagine if he merged science and the Hulk together and created weapons that utilized the gamma energy he expels.

I think if Bruce Banner and Hulk prepped together, they could easily take someone out like Thanos (with no prep).

And with his future training with Iron Fist I am sure that his power will grow beyong 9000.

Hulk don't need an external source of Chi to amp himself.

His gamma energies are enough.

That will be EPIC.

Marvel is preparing a big big big event.

@realitywarper:

Sadly, I don't think his training with Iron Fist really went anywhere, but we'll see in future issues, except time is running out, so we might not get to know since it sounds like Secret Wars will end everything.

I hate the stories and threads where intelligent Hulk is strong... He would have to be a lot less angry to use intelligence.. and that would nerf his strength. Also there is probably an upper limit on how angry someone can get... The Hulk writers are just bad most of the time and boost him up all the time because of his popularity

Well according to some directors at Marvel, Maestro can go toe to toe agaisn't Thanos and even cosmic beings so yah, Hulk's power is pretty much up there. Hulk with morals off and no holding back as Maestro, according to Marvel, is in Thanos' s levels.

Bill Rosemann told THR that the Maestro's inclusion in "Contest of Champions" was the perfect answer to the question of finding "a character who could trump the Collector and go toe-to-toe and perhaps even defeat Thanos himself."

And also this from Humphries

“We needed that kind of escalation when it comes to the big bosses,” shares Sam Humphries, writer of “Contest of Champions” as well as the upcoming STAR-LORD & KITTY PRYDE. “Oh, you think Kang is tough? Well, here’s Thanos for you. Thanos is pretty epic, but how about the evil, deranged Hulk from Future Imperfect?

“There’s a curveball element to it as well; the Maestro is not usually grouped with cosmic heavy hitters. We think he’s got that epic potential to him—oh and also he’s a bad ass.”

It is going to be interesting to see Hulk's power when he's not holding back and without morals !

@chimeroid: Actually there is no limits to Hulk's anger. Even though in real life there is probably a limit on how angry you can get it has been stated in NUMEROUS comics that his rage and anger is limitless so that is a no as far as his anger having limits. And as far as strength goes there was at one point where the Beyonder said Hulk's power is truly unlimited. As far as his limits, there are none ;)

Is Hulk way too OPed, well yes, I mean it is fun for Hulk fans but I can understand that some people who aren't into Hulk may be a bit bothered by it...

The Marvel heroes will need all their strenghts to face the Beyonders anyway.

Why do you think that it will end everything ?

@schwarz: Ok, i get that is one of his superpowers but he still needs something to get him angrier... He is literally portrayed as a person who gets angry from anything once he turns and he knows no different emotions... I used to love Hulk.. But i honestly hate all these *smart* hulk stories... The point of him was in the double edged sword.. The hero and the villain in the same body. You always both wanted him to turn and avoid turning in any way possible

@chimeroid: The good old times :(

@realitywarper: the new secret wars is essentially marvels first reboot.

@slimj87d: Id say banners smarter than tony.

In most of his incarnations he does hold back or should i say Banner holds him back. Mindless Hulk and WBH being obvious exceptions.

Yea, going by sheer IQ itself... Banner > Tony.

They said otherwise so at which point can it be considered a reboot ?

Will the Universe be totally wrecked and remake ?

@realitywarper: when did they say otherwise?

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=58812

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2015/01/20/marvel-announcement-lets-talk/

http://comicsalliance.com/marvel-now-interview-joe-quesada-axel-alonso-tom-brevoort/?trackback=tsmclip

JQ = Joe Quesada

JQ: It’s all a matter of consistency. We love our hardcore constituency. We’re not rebooting, we’re not saying, ‘Hey, all that stuff you read doesn’t matter anymore.” We’re building upon that [history], which is really no different [than how Marvel typically operates]. We’re always trying to get new readers. The readers we want are people who love incredible, unique storytelling with great characters. The Marvel NOW! initiative is something that’s designed to sort of put a flag in the sand and say, “This is a cool place to pick up on the new status quos but a continuation of the Marvel Universe where we still respect our continuity.” Our characters just grow. It’s an easier balance to strike than one might imagine. It’s just a matter of making sure that you’re appeasing both the new and both the old, and making sure that Marvel Universe remains consistent and whole.Read More: Marvel Executives Joe Quesada, Axel Alonso and Tom Brevoort on Marvel NOW! [Interview] | http://comicsalliance.com/marvel-now-interview-joe-quesada-axel-alonso-tom-brevoort/?trackback=tsmclip

@realitywarper: well that's nice to hear.

But that will change some things that Marvel don't want anymore in their Universe.

I see that more as a refresh than as a reboot.

I'm glad that they cancel the multiversity, we will have more consistency I guess.

And the heroes will have some power upgrades aswell I think.

That's all good.

Well its sort of a reboot. I will just take 2099 for exemple. In the current run Maestro killed most of the heroes of 2099 such as thor and the likes but when 2099 will come in secret wars it seems to take place a bit before since the 2099 avengers will go agaisn't maestro. It is not really a reboot but more of a fixing of what they dislike. By crashing all the multiverse into one it gets rid of the multiverse and they get to change a few things here and there. So everything kind of becomes canon instead of having one straight canon run 616 and the other universes that are all over the place.

Doesn't he say in Heart of the Monster that he was holding back in New York (World War Hulk), but finally lets go when in WB mode?

..but yes he holds back.....an all out Hulk not being held back would literally break the planet.....

Hulk has to hold back, just like most other planetary powerhouses

It has been confirmed on a few occasions that Hulk indeed holds back, or is held back by Banner.

Ever read john byrnes hulk in the late 80s? His hulk killed a whole town full of people, even kids! It's always amused me how fan boys call hulk a hero, when he's done some very nasty things. Gray hulk was a brutalized of women, including betty banner.

@winters: People like you also amuse me, because apparently the concept of Hulk having several different personalities inside him completely escapes you. Just like there is a Hulk that NEVER kills and goes out of his way to protect innocent bystanders there are also Hulks that just want to kill and destroy.

Our country makes way too many excuses for the mentally ill, I think that's what Peter David was implying during his run on hulk, with his exploration of hulks different personalities.

Banner is easily smarter than stark, and I think hes about even with reed.

It's not a question of whether or not Banner is holding him back, but the point that he HAS to hold him back at all times, otherwise it spells doom for the entire planet.

If you put it like that just about all heroes got an evil side or some evil carnation. Then again I never called Hulk a hero i just call him somebody thats there at the right time.

The difference with Maestro is that Maestro actually kills people with his own hands and enjoys it.

@thenemianlion: all Hulk said In that scan is that he held back “during the war and in Vegas” never once did he say he held back all the time, you’re just making stuff up now!

@andreasver: Whats the point of replying to a 3 year old post? As for Hulk holding back all the time

Banner holds him back all the time, the only time he didn't truly hold back was when he was in WBH mode.