Hope Summers in X- Force

#1 Edited by ChadwickDavis (444 posts) - - Show Bio

I have been reading about Hope and the more I read about her, the more I think she would be an excellent addition to X force.  
Before you consider me crazy hear me out....  
 

1: Hope is Cable's "Daughter":

Cable founded the original team as a paramilitay force and Hope was trained literally her entire life by Cable in the art of war. Naturally if she found out about Cable's role in X force she would want to be on the team if for no other reason than to honor his memory. 

2: Hope can fight:

With her survival training from Cable combined with the fact that she has been chased by Bishop (who is one of the most dangerous mutant soldiers alive) her entire life and ultimately defeated him after she "came of age." You could potentially place her on a comparable level to X-23  due to life experience. Hope was forced to learn how to be the ultimate survivor and Laura was trained to be the ultimate killer (though granted Hope wouldn't have a prayer against Laura at close quarters) 

3: "Firebird" (If I chose Hope's codename) + X-23 team up:

the ultimate survivor and the ulltimate Killer watching each others back against an army of assassins...Enough said. 

4: She has extensive experience in advanced technology and weapons:

that would be invaluable in cloaking your missions from from Reed Richards technology and she has an extensive expertise in futuristic weapons. 

5: Power:

She has power mimicry, telekinesis, Telepathy, power Activation/Stabilization, And the Phoenix Force.   

HOPE IS ESSENTIALLY

THE DARK PHOENIX ON A BLACK OPS SQUAD

...WITH MILITARY TRAINING, WITHOUT JEAN GREY (AND THE THREAT BLOWING UP THE UNIVERSE), DEVOID OF THE CYCLOPS WOLVERINE LOVE TRIANGLE, AND A KINDRED SPIRIT IN X-23... 
What more could you ask for in an X force Candidate?  
 
Any comments?
#2 Posted by PumpkinBomb (493 posts) - - Show Bio
@ChadwickDavis said:
"DEVOID OF THE CYCLOPS WOLVERINE LOVE TRIANGLE, AND A KINDRED SPIRIT IN X-23"
Didn't Mike Carey suggest that Hellion was going to be involved with Hope somehow? There's a love triangle for you, except Hellion's Jean.
#3 Posted by ChadwickDavis (444 posts) - - Show Bio

@PumpkinBomb: 
I did not hear that. I sincerely hope not (no pun intended) because then you would get a Julian/ Laura/ Hope/ triangle. 
 
But you still did not  say whether you think she would be an acceptable addition to X Force or not.     

#4 Posted by Mainline (1129 posts) - - Show Bio

I don't think it's a compatible match on a character level.  Sure, the powers and abilities and history are there, but not the personality and motivations.  Cable raised Hope as a soldier as a matter of necessity and survival to get her to the point that she could live differently.  For her to go right back into a life of harsh pragmatism and violence would be dishonoring her father's sacrifice.  It would be like your parents scrimping and saving, living in poverty, so that you could pay for an education and have the opportunity to have a different lifestyle... then taking the education and instead of using it to have a better life, choosing to live like a miser in poverty. 
 
Her name is what her purpose is and it doesn't match with the underlying cynicism and pragmatism of the X-Force philosophy.

#5 Posted by ChadwickDavis (444 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mainline said:
" I don't think it's a compatible match on a character level.  Sure, the powers and abilities and history are there, but not the personality and motivations.  Cable raised Hope as a soldier as a matter of necessity and survival to get her to the point that she could live differently.  For her to go right back into a life of harsh pragmatism and violence would be dishonoring her father's sacrifice.  It would be like your parents scrimping and saving, living in poverty, so that you could pay for an education and have the opportunity to have a different lifestyle... then taking the education and instead of using it to have a better life, choosing to live like a miser in poverty.  Her name is what her purpose is and it doesn't match with the underlying cynicism and pragmatism of the X-Force philosophy. "
I see your point...and I agree with it for the most part. But let me ask you this?  
How is what Cable wanted for Hope any different than what Wolverine wants for X-23? Wolverine wants her to learn how to live a life outside of the "mission" and yet she was forced back into the black ops world, which is essential contradictory to everything that Wolverine (and Captain America for that matter) wanted for her. 
For that matter how is Hope any different?
Hope was forced into a world to be the savior of mutantkind (or the Shield as it were) from the day she was born where X-23 was to be the perfect weapon (or the sword) both were trained to beat all odds, both were forced to deal with a handler who had an obsession with seeing them suffer for their actions, and both have watched those around them die simply because of who they are.  
I'm not saying that it would be what Cable would have wanted, but I don't think that she would sit back and watch people die for her if she has the expertise to do something about it. 
You also have to consider the possibility that it could also serve as a means of  "atonement" for her part in Nightcrawler's death (even though it wasn't her fault...she still may feel that she owes it to Kurt and Wolverine to prove that the sacrifice was worth it (but I guess that is up to the writer)   
#6 Posted by Mainline (1129 posts) - - Show Bio

Is X-23 still in black ops, I thought Wolvie booted her from the team and then asked to adopt her?  Wolvie recognized forcing X-23 was wrong and he apologized for it.  Personally, I have some issues with him adopting her, but that's a separate topic. 
 
I think you're confused.  Contrasted against X-23, Hope was raised with love and with a greater purpose in mind, the soldier skills were but a means to that greater purpose... X-23 had no other purpose... X-23 is working against her purpose; Hope is working towards it. 
 
Right now Hope's gifts are unique while X-Force's talents are not.  She's not "sitting back" he's the only one who can bring in the Five Lights... no one, not even X-Force, can do that.  What X-Force is doing is killing... they don't even need mutants to do that... in fact, it's a little ridiculous they even perform the covert ops themselves when Warren could pay to have much of their dirty work be done for them.  X-Force's rationale isn't that strong, it's just a cool book where X-Characters get to be more unhinged than usual. 
 
I disagree with atonement because she doesn't feel that debt.  She was raised her whole life with the soldier's mentality.  If she was influenced by survivor's guilt she would not have the ability to get beyond her own mother's death, much less Cable's to perform her Five Lights duties.  And on the scale of guilt, if any, certainly Cable's wishes would greatly outweigh any responsibility she'd feel towards total stranger Kurt.  She'd feel way more guilty throwing Cable's wishes and sacrifice back in his face than she would about an X-Men who willing gave his life to help her accomplish her purpose in life, the same destiny that Cable drilled into her every day. 
 
You could force it, sure, any writer could... but I don't think it matches the characterization.

#7 Posted by Violet-Eyed Dragon (2271 posts) - - Show Bio
@ChadwickDavis:   hope needs to become as mentally stable as possible.  she should spend the next three years of her life in rigorous therapy--not because she is that impaired, just because she has such enormous pressure to crack and the consequences would be devastating.  Jean Grey ended up killing 7 million human-like aliens, Scarlet Witch depowered a million mutants (killing hundreds), and Sentry killed Ares, half of Asgard, and nearly took out all of the Avengers.  Those ultra-powerful beings need to be prepared.  rushing hope will result in the disastrous. 
#8 Posted by ChadwickDavis (444 posts) - - Show Bio
@Mainline: 
"Is X-23 still in black ops, I thought Wolvie booted her from the team "     
He did, however X-23 has been shown in a few of the recent X force promos, so it stands to reason that she will be returning in the near future 
"And on the scale of guilt, if any, certainly Cable's wishes would greatly outweigh any responsibility she'd feel towards total stranger Kurt "   
Are we talking about the same "stranger" who saved her life by teleporting between a futuristic sentinel trying to punch a hole through her heart and teleported her to safety. Yes Cable's wishes would take presidence, but his wishes were ultimately what any parent would want; for her to be better than him and live a full life.   The soldier in her would want to honor the sacrifice he made (whether on X forceor not.) 
"You could force it, sure, any writer could... but I don't think it matches the characterization."  
Of course could, but if they did that, then she would be just another Jean grey "clone" and we have already had 3 of those already, we don't need any more. That would diminish the character...and she is actually interesting to me.  
 
She has been in the trenches, she is tech Saavy and she is smart, I still see her as an X force candidate, but she would have to be done right...she couldn't be just another stone cold killer with her power levels, or she would go ape$#!* and kill everyone. 
  
@Violet-Eyed Dragon:  
" hope needs to become as mentally stable as possible.  she should spend the next three years of her life in rigorous therapy--not because she is that impaired, just because she has such enormous pressure to crack and the consequences would be devastating."
  
I AGREE COMPLETELY!!! 
but you also have to take into consideration that the X men as a whole are not exactly the most sane of individuals either. Ironically I think she would have abetter chance of being "sane" with Wolverine and Psylocke on X force than she would with Cyclops and the rest of the mutant population. A "bit" left wing I know, but Cyclops put X-23 on the team and Wolverine tried to minimize the action she was involved in.  
 
Despite Wolverine's background and skill set he actually values his humanity, and Cyclops despite his "boy scout" nature is slowly losing (If he hasn't lost it already) his and is willing to sacrifice everyone elses humanity for the sake of safety.  
 
Her only other alternative would be to leave the X men and set off on her own and after all that has happened do you really believe that anyone would let her do that?         
#9 Posted by frogjitsu (478 posts) - - Show Bio

I agree with her teaming up with X-23.  That would be awesome.  But I don't think X-Force is the best place for it.  They both could use a little down time, and a chance to live relatively normal lives for a while.

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